Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on September 13, 2008, 11:14:26 AM
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I think I've come across at least part of the reason for the difference between the old days of Air Warrior (AWI) and today.
Of course, most of you have heard the old timers from AW recount the days of chivalry, letting wounded opponents go, everybody <S>ing and talking about it being "all about the fight". A lot of that is true but of course, some is just nostalgic selective memory. People tend to forget the bad stuff.
There was however, a fundamental difference between then and now. In AWI you couldn't capture bases. No one ever won the war. You could shut a base down for 20-30 minutes but not capture it. This meant the there was no "win the war" mentality. Sure, there were bombers and toolshedders but in the end it really was all about the fight because that's all there was.
The scoring system was also rudimentary. It ranked you by points earned so those who could play the most and were at least somewhat effective were usually on the top 200 list. If you didn't have a lot of time to play then you didn't care about the scores/ranks. In fact, because of that, I used to break down K/D, K/S, etc. for each of my 60 squad mates each month and e-mail it to all of them. I'd use that info to honor our best sticks by posting their kill rates on our web-site, even if they were'nt in the Top 200. I like to somehow think HT ripped that scoring thing off from me.
I'm not advocating going back to AWI. I think the base capture/war winning/advanced scoring offers a lot to a lot more people but it has fundamentally changed the game that so many of us payed before AH.
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Look where AW is at now. That's all you need to know.
BTW I flew AW when it was on Genie (cpid 758).
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Look where AW is at now. That's all you need to know.
BTW I flew AW when it was on Genie (cpid 758).
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
The base capture thing was in HT/Pyro's Warbirds too, but back then you just had to land your plane on the runway (once all the hangers were down) to capture it. When did that start, 16 years ago? You'd hope that after so many years something better would have been thought up.
Ahhh the good old days. Clearly flight sims were more fun when they looked like this:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/2852905945_ef4750d905.jpg?v=0)
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Ahhh the good old days. Clearly flight sims were more fun when they looked like this:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/2852905945_ef4750d905.jpg?v=0)
Try an even lower polygon count and no texture on the aircraft. You could make out generally the shape of the aircraft, and they were all tan :).
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Yeah, that's a warbirds 2 pic. I don't think I have any pics that survive from 1.x.
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The base capture thing was in HT/Pyro's Warbirds too, but back then you just had to land your plane on the runway (once all the hangers were down) to capture it. When did that start, 16 years ago? You'd hope that after so many years something better would have been thought up.
Ahhh the good old days. Clearly flight sims were more fun when they looked like this:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/2852905945_ef4750d905.jpg?v=0)
what are the little lines in the air? :noid
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Ahhh the good old days. Clearly flight sims were more fun when they looked like this:[/img]
Grahics are not the point of this post. Gameplay is.
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Grahics are not the point of this post. Gameplay is.
I could not agree more :salute
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For years only the 3 N(eutral) bases were capturable, but AW3 did expand it to where all fields could be captured. There was no war winning though since, you couldn't capture a countries last field.
Look where AW is at now. That's all you need to know.
I don't think that's a valid point at all. In 2001 with WB and AH out there it still carried around 700 people during primetime. It's downfall was being snapped up by a corporation that has a notorious history of aquiring and dissolving smaller studios.
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Grahics are not the point of this post. Gameplay is.
My bad you just got me feeling nostalgic. :D
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For years only the 3 N(eutral) bases were capturable, but AW3 did expand it to where all fields could be captured. There was no war winning though since, you couldn't capture a countries last field.
I don't think that's a valid point at all. In 2001 with WB and AH out there it still carried around 700 people during primetime. It's downfall was being snapped up by a corporation that has a notorious history of aquiring and dissolving smaller studios.
Agree. WB survived for a long time with a RPS, too! :aok
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(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/bad1.gif)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/notgood5.gif)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/squad8.gif)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/squad7.gif)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/team.gif)
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Well, at least the water looks nicer.
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I can remember defending bases with a bomber because u could have all guns manned on it.
Was pretty cool having an internal vox for pilot and gunners and all still able to talk on
country channel.
Was just as fun when dropping a bomb on a bomber on the runway and getting 7 kills.
(1 pilot + 6 gunners)
Being able to fire while on runway or having all guns manned was a fun way to break up a horde
in a bomber.
Almost forgot
Seems somebody always snuck some sheep aboard baabaa
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I think the biggest difference is that AW crowd was composed of aviation enthusiast's . They are here as well but there is a large component of gamers as well .
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I think the biggest difference is that AW crowd was composed of aviation enthusiast's . They are here as well but there is a large component of gamers as well .
I think Hlbly is right. I hate games and computers, hated computers for years. The only thing that keeps
me in this "game" is a fascination with WWII aircraft. Without going into all the books I have read on the subject (and i dont claim to know much at all cause i dont) , it all started in 3rd or 4th grade with "30 seconds over Tokyo" then bout 8 months ago i find this place while trying to find articles on WWII aircraft. For me this a game yet mabey a bit more of a fascination and respect for that era of fighter/bomber aircraft, and yes still a game.
But im no gamer.
(good grief, this prolly makes no sense, ill shut up for now)
zuii
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Makes perfect sense . I got my first computer after playing a game called Chuck Yeagers Aircombat I think .
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Good point. I think flight sims used to be restricted to aviation enthusiasts, and now it's anyone who has a joystick and a modem.
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Good point. I think flight sims used to be restricted to aviation enthusiasts, and now it's anyone who has a joystick and a modem.
Yup. Goes a long way towards explaining the greater number of war-winner....er, excuse me, goal-oriented players.
- oldman
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This is very controversial topic. I'll point back at AW and WB. The bottom line is us aviation enthusiast aren't/weren't enough to keep them afloat whether as a business or a community.
AW - ok EA bought them up then after awhile closed shop. Why would EA spend good money to buy AW to only close up shop? Are they evil and hate aviation games? The most likely explanation is that they weren't making any money on AW.
WB - not dead but the community is near non-existent. Hardly enough to make it interesting.
I'm willing to bet that the demise of AW and WB are related to lack of increasing player population and that ultimately is related to the gameplay of both these games. Do a search on quotes from hitech on the topic regarding AH gameplay philosophy. It makes for an interesting perspective compared to AW and WB especially with HT and Pyro having been involved in both of those in some form or fashion.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Let me preface this by the fact, I never played AW. I was more of a Jane's (USNF,ATF,FA,WW2 Fighters and MS F/S). I have always lived in the country and our connection speeds were until recently spotty at best. Any type of Air War online game at 28.8 (on the best day) frankly sucked.
Anyway from what I have found and seen about AW, it seems people are overly Waxing Nostalgic about it.
Classic example, I had Intellivision as a kid. I thought B-17 Bomber was the greatest game ever and was so blown away by it. So a few years my mom found my Intellivison in her basement, I took it home and of course the Intellivoice did not work. So I found an entire working system from someone, paid a bunch of money for a complete operational system w/intellivoice.
I am ready to play the greatest game ever and............... it sucked. Time marches on, maybe the memories were better than the reality?
FYI, the Intellivison B-17 Bomber commercial from 83:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741_jmeRtv8
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Bald, gameplay here in AH has changed when the # of barracks were increased, 3 bases became uncapturable, increased number of town ack, increased # of field ack, fuel no longer porkable to 25%, and maybe some I'm forgetting.
It's gone from a somewhat stragecially based game to a blast away something.
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FYI, the Intellivison B-17 Bomber commercial from 83:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741_jmeRtv8
The best part of that game...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcaEdnFLb1U&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcaEdnFLb1U&feature=related)
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Bald, gameplay here in AH has changed when the # of barracks were increased, 3 bases became uncapturable, increased number of town ack, increased # of field ack, fuel no longer porkable to 25%, and maybe some I'm forgetting.
It's gone from a somewhat stragecially based game to a blast away something.
That's funny -- I thought all those things made the game more strategic, or at least more team oriented, instead of rewarding the lone porker who used to be able to shut down an entire front with a single 190 sortie.
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AW Also had base capture. But all bases were not capturable.
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I dread going back to the days of having all frontline fields up to 3 deep porked to 25% fuel. Increasing min fuel available at a field from 25%-75% was the best change HTC ever made to AH.
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From AW lead artist perspective:
EA bought Kesmai because of the licenses the company owned.
I don't know if they actually evaluated any game that Kesmai was 'doing' ..
..I do know that the CEO of EA, Mr. John Riccitello, called an all hands meeting and blew smoke up everyone's butt about how they were goin to expand Kesmai and build our major products up ..and we all know just how well they did that.
From gamers perspective .. AWDos max server load was 30 players.
Some weekend nights you could not get in.
For hours.
Screw the graphics, it was all about blastin someone outta the sky.
Or vulchin the crap out of dweebs (like .. ohh .. Fencer's gang on Sunday nite, always takin off from B-1 ..evil grin)
Those who talk of 'chivalry' played a different game than I knew.
Ghost Rider, Stilletto, Mullah, Krazy Kat, Hoppy, Gonzo ..
..if you got in front of them in any way shape or form you were dead.
Period.
When I fly I will gun you in your chute if I have time and ammo to do it.
You may think it's chivalrous if I leave someone in their chute,
..but frankly the only reason I would is seein a bandit comin, or not havin ammo left.
And I will vulch you on the field till the cows come home if you let me.
-evil grin-
But . . that's just me and how I learned to 'play' in AW.
By those chivalrous players I named above.
And many others.
Nice shot of AW3 stuff there .. and some AWDos for the Munda scenario.
Love the one C-lander and alla targets he has to choose from :)
My kinda playin.
-GE (I still have boxed versions of all of 'em that were actually .. boxed)
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Alot has changed but the reasons imho are;
1. When AW first came out, the only ones that could afford it was adults (compared to our $15 a month).
2. Online games are common place now and quake and counter strike players (who are score monkeys) have eroded the Ah community.
3. Too many want to easiest path to victory, why learn ACM when you can fly with 32+ other guys in a huge squadron and roll base after base?
4. A vast majority of those that had some sense of chivalry are either so fed up they have left or have become so bitter that no one wants to emulate them.
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The more things change the more they remain the same. There's nothing new under the sun about gameplay or how players behave.
The only thing that changes is one's perspective and YMMV.
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AW - ok EA bought them up then after awhile closed shop. Why would EA spend good money to buy AW to only close up shop? Are they evil and hate aviation games? The most likely explanation is that they weren't making any money on AW.
I listened to John Riccitello's own words from the shareholders teleconference from the 3rd quarter of 2001. I also read several former Kesmai peoples observations after the fact. Mr Riccitello specifically said that their premium subscribership (which involved almost exclusively Kesmai produced games) were doing as well as had been anticipated (iirc it was somewhere between 25-35k). He then went on to give pie in the sky projections ("Ultima Online numbers" was the example given) of what subscribership numbers the dot com division would deliver when they launched their in house online gaming products. The fact is, from my research, which by the way is from primary souces, is that EA untimely decided to jump on the dot com bandwagon way too late to hit the "boom" numbers. They had no product themselves developed at the time to offer, and shanghi'd established products as an interim solution. The problem was that they had put too much money out, and did eventually have to answer about their books to both the parent corp. and shareholders. The easiest way to make the books more palitible is to cut expenses. The easiest way to cut expenses was to consolidate to the "in house" projects and axe everything else. In my view none of that has anything to do with the merits of any individual game, its subscribership, or even reflect on the studio's producing them. Again, the Kesmai products were "performing as expected."
So, all that said, what are you basing your assertions on?
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I think I've come across at least part of the reason for the difference between the old days of Air Warrior (AWI) and today.
There was however, a fundamental difference between then and now. In AWI you couldn't capture bases. No one ever won the war. You could shut a base down for 20-30 minutes but not capture it. This meant the there was no "win the war" mentality. Sure, there were bombers and toolshedders but in the end it really was all about the fight because that's all there was.
I played AW DOS on the Old Genie network, I about went broke doing it. I seem to remember being able to capture bases even back all the planes were gray with no markings. I could be mistaken though.
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I listened to John Riccitello's own words from the shareholders teleconference from the 3rd quarter of 2001. I also read several former Kesmai peoples observations after the fact. Mr Riccitello specifically said that their premium subscribership (which involved almost exclusively Kesmai produced games) were doing as well as had been anticipated (iirc it was somewhere between 25-35k). He then went on to give pie in the sky projections ("Ultima Online numbers" was the example given) of what subscribership numbers the dot com division would deliver when they launched their in house online gaming products. The fact is, from my research, which by the way is from primary souces, is that EA untimely decided to jump on the dot com bandwagon way too late to hit the "boom" numbers. They had no product themselves developed at the time to offer, and shanghi'd established products as an interim solution. The problem was that they had put too much money out, and did eventually have to answer about their books to both the parent corp. and shareholders. The easiest way to make the books more palitible is to cut expenses. The easiest way to cut expenses was to consolidate to the "in house" projects and axe everything else. In my view none of that has anything to do with the merits of any individual game, its subscribership, or even reflect on the studio's producing them. Again, the Kesmai products were "performing as expected."
So, all that said, what are you basing your assertions on?
If they were doing well, why did they kill it? The only logical explanation I can think of is that "doing well" was indeed not what it was doing. Why would they shutdown something that's profiting, unless of course it wasn't competing well against AH and WB. ? I don't know of any business that cuts off a cash cow when times get bad unless they are going bankrupt. Usually what goes is the marginal businesses. EA obviously made it with Ultima Online, the Battlefield series, the Sims etc. These obviously developed a critical mass of players that made it worth EA's while.
Hey I'm speculating :) but it's pretty illogical to me to blame on EA deciding to cut AW to make up on it's balance sheet unless AW was indeed a marginal business for them. Perhaps the person to ask is EA's CEO himself to get his side of the story.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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If they were doing well, why did they kill it?
The CEO said that it was performing as expected, not I.
The only logical explanation I can think of is that "doing well" was indeed not what it was doing.
Check again. He assured the shareholders that the 25k-35k subscribership was meeting projections. And that future projections for their in house games (sims, and motor city) of 150k were yet to come.
Why would they shutdown something that's profiting, unless of course it wasn't competing well against AH and WB. ?
I think the premiss of the question is rather silly. I already stated the numbers they were promising the shareholders per game were more than AH, WB, AW, and FA at the time combined.
EA obviously made it with Ultima Online, the Battlefield series, the Sims etc. These obviously developed a critical mass of players that made it worth EA's while.
Ahh, so you are getting it. Kesmai games was an apple in what was planned to be an orange crate. I say Kesmai because you ignore the fact that AW was not singled out for the chopping block, the producing studio and its entire suite of games were. However your assertion was not that AW was an apple among oranges. Your assertion was that AW was a poor apple along side all the other apples (WWII flight sims). While that argument might hold water if we are talking about the game engine, it is simply does not in terms of subscribership.
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-GE (I still have boxed versions of all of 'em that were actually .. boxed)
Me too... installing any of them is a letdown though. We've come a long way baby! :lol
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Murdr:
I'll agree to disagree :). If AW was such a gem why did it not make it off the chopping block? If it indeed was something that they felt they would be quite profitable it makes no sense for them to include it in the chop. I don't think it's a silly question at all, but the most fundamental. Maybe someone should go look up EA's books for 2001. What the CEO says in public means little as you well know. Just look at all the present news headlines especially with the financial institutions.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Murdr:
I'll agree to disagree :). If AW was such a gem why did it not make it off the chopping block? If it indeed was something that they felt they would be quite profitable it makes no sense for them to include it in the chop.
Actually we are getting closer I think. I am not aspousing the virtues of AW. What I am saying is that any game of this genre never have met their long term goals at the time, period. Insert a different WWII flight sim title into the story, and the result would be the same. It had nothing to do with direct flight sim to flight sime competition. Hence the fallicy of the retort of "where is AW now?"
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Actually we are getting closer I think. I am not aspousing the virtues of AW. What I am saying is that any game of this genre never have met their long term goals at the time, period. Insert a different WWII flight sim title into the story, and the result would be the same. It had nothing to do with direct flight sim to flight sime competition. Hence the fallicy of the retort of "where is AW now?"
Well, again we just have to disagree here. I don't think you could just "insert any game" there. EA didn't chop other stuff. Why did they chop AW? Sure it was a part of kesmai but that's really odd for them to chop them without keeping anything from them if that's what they always intended to do. In my opinion I think it's reasonable to conclude that EA didn't feel they got enough revenue / player base from the Kesmai acquisitions. If this was true then I think it logically also leads to the gameplay of AW not being compelling enough to generate the growing numbers that EA wanted compared to the others out there. Sure I'm speculating but I think it's a plausible explanation. At any rate I think that Hitech and Pyro purposely have taken a bit of a different tack for a business reason that you can glean from some of Hitech's comments on the gameplay topic.
Anyhow, I really don't want the last word on the topic :)!! I'll look for yours and others replies. I think I'm just repeating myself now. I hear what you're saying. "EA cut the Kesmai products because they had to balance the books." I just find this hard to buy from business logic standpoint that it had nothing to do with Kesmai's lack of revenue including the AW franchise. My speculation comes from this line of reasoning.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Well..it's a fact AW is dead.
Also a fact that EA killed it.
Also that EA will not let it go.
(people have tried to negotiate buyin the rights to it)
Coupla other facts ..when it went live on AOL ..the servers weren't big enough to handle the load.
There were weekends where you could not get in.. at all ..pattern was full Ghostrider :)
I was told it was a niche market by the Art Director himself .. LOL . . then we launched.
Not bad for a niche market I thought .. just about completely full, every nite, all nite.
For months ..while the server farm got bigger and bigger.
It was the place to be for thousands of us.
When EA got involved .. AW was cutting edge in a lot of ways.
As lead artist .. I was rarely given the go ahead to spend the time necessary to do what I wanted.
I mean .. I was asked to do a 'table' .. or a 'lamp' ..for some other project that never saw the light of day.. it SUCKED.
I was all about revamping plane shapes and blowin the status quo out of the water.
I wanted full gear animations, with every moving part of the original.. I wanted full 3d cockpits, and I knew I could do a heck of a lot better than Jane's did (they had some nice cockpits .. but . . sheesh .. the poly count was thru the roof since they modeled the back part of the throttle quadrant that you never see with just as many polys as the front that you saw -rolls eyes- .. for just one example. It was just nuts.
I knew I could smoke 'em .. and when I was given the go ahead for AW4 shapes .. I did.
The P-51D I built at the last was magnificent, my best ever. It looked better than the ones I made for hi-res rendering, because I had learned a lot in the years since I built that one. And it was for real time .. the game shape itself. It even had the folds in the inner gear doors, it looked 'photo-realistic' all the way baby.
Too bad I got chopped off at the ankles before I could do any texture mapping, or any player saw the results. It was *nice*
EA will forever change my mood when I start thinkin about what they did.
Don't get me started.
And the outright lies posted on bigweek by people that should have known better .. OMFG.
I will never return there.
I have been asked ..and I replied 'no thanks .. it would be like bending over and dropping my pants in a public place, inviting anyone to just go ahead, stick it in till it breaks off' .. I PASS.
Been there DONE that mk thx.
-GE (not that I am still a bit wired about it.. nosir. -feels better after a 100+ mph blast down the freeway, late nite)
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If this was true then I think it logically also leads to the gameplay of AW not being compelling enough to generate the growing numbers that EA wanted compared to the others out there. Sure I'm speculating but I think it's a plausible explanation.
ELECTRONIC ARTS ANNOUNCES AGREEMENT TO ACQUIRE NEWS CORP. ONLINE GAME UNIT, KESMAI
REDWOOD CITY, Calif., November 22, 1999-- Electronic Arts (Nasdaq:ERTS), the world's largest interactive entertainment software company, today announced the acquisition of Kesmai Corporation, a developer and publisher of multiplayer online entertainment.
Electronic Arts And AOL in Online Games Deal
Added: (Tue Nov 23 1999)
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - In a bid to become the world's top provider of video games online, Electronic Arts Inc. (NasdaqNM:ERTS - news) agreed to be the sole supplier of games to America Online Inc. (NYSE:AOL - news), the No. 1 Internet service provider.
"This exclusive deal merges the two into what we see as a dream team," said Lise Buyer, a Credit Suisse First Boston analyst. "We think (Electronic Arts) is very well positioned to be the No. 1 supplier of games online. All that was missing was a distribution network. AOL provides that."
You still insist it was about Kesmai games, when the facts suggest that it was more about their licences and getting exclusive rights with the largest ISP. You insist on speculating that AW was not doing well in comparison to the rest of the genre. But I was bouncing around checking out all the games before the announcment of it being discontinued. Its health by way of prime time rosters was on the high side when looking at the other wwii flight sims.
Gamestorms entire existing subscribership did not meet 20% of what EA wanted out of individual game titles. Yet they aquired it and move in on AOL. They put Kesmai games on their own server, because they had nothing else on hand to offer there for 2 years.
Well, again we just have to disagree here. I don't think you could just "insert any game" there. EA didn't chop other stuff.
What "other stuff?" they offered no other pay subscription games on their own game server website at the time? They kept the Kesmai games going until they could get their first in house game out of the pipeline (MCO, which barely peaked above 35k).
They had no interest in games that could not post UO numbers. Yet they aquired a suite of games that could not. Why? Because of the in AOL.
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In my opinion I think it's reasonable to conclude that EA didn't feel they got enough revenue / player base from the Kesmai acquisitions.
I think it's reasonable to assume that a company such as EA did enough due dilligance to know exactly what they were buying, what it's revenues, profits and subscriber numbers were and also enough to make reasonable projections.
The way the deal went down and thier quick exit suggest that there were other motives for that aquisition.
IIRC the moment EA bought Kesmai, all development on AWIII stopped. Is that how a company that's buying for the future handles things? I think not. I think they planned on killing Kesmai from the outset.
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Bald, actually the game engine was in process of a complete rewrite when the studio was shut down.
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Bald, actually the game engine was in process of a complete rewrite when the studio was shut down.
I think it had something to do with them wanting to go to a Korea (jet) add-on to Air Warrior if i remember correctly (?)
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Alky, the way I understood it was that the original code had been patched over so many times over the years that it became more and more difficult to update/upgrade without having stability issues. Essentially it needed to be done to keep the game expandable. At least that was the way I heard it explained by a former "Kesmaite". I bet you mean AW Vietnam?
IIRC it was a three phase project they named "torch", "avalanch", and "overlord"? Torch was already released, which included an updated FM they called "ultra realism". 2nd phase was projected to be ready for Feb 02, with the thrid in the fall.
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I think it had something to do with them wanting to go to a Korea (jet) add-on to Air Warrior if i remember correctly (?)
AW already had a korea arena with the F-86 and Mig-15. They had it when AW was on AOHell.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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AW already had a korea arena with the F-86 and Mig-15. They had it when AW was on AOHell.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
I remember the F-86 and Mig-15 thing, I didn't remember it being released. Maybe I left AOHell before that. The Vietnam version I don`t remember at all, but then I`m a really old phart LOL. :salute
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I started on a/h 1.........6 months into a/h I copped a attitude(bush re-elected)....so I went & downloaded A/W..... got in the game,....pressed the "start" button for the motor....... listened to the engine, 20 sec's,...maybe longer......then deleted A/W, and came back to A/H with a bit different attitude. Thats my experience w/ A/W. :salute
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I started on a/h 1.........6 months into a/h I copped a attitude(bush re-elected)....so I went & downloaded A/W..... got in the game,....pressed the "start" button for the motor....... listened to the engine, 20 sec's,...maybe longer......then deleted A/W, and came back to A/H with a bit different attitude. Thats my experience w/ A/W. :salute
What did Bush getting re-elected have to do with you flying AH?
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What did Bush getting re-elected have to do with you flying AH?
:rofl He blames it for his attitude.
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He was from texas. :aok
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He was from texas. :aok
Gee that makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:
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OK, I'll spell it out for ya hun. I could not believe that sooo many folks, yes here in /AH were going to vote for this ****head yet again. That prompted me to leave. Does that make any sense mr. wizard?
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(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7798/boomheadshotgif1ms.gif)
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word,....yo home slice <S>"beer , beer, beer said the privates,....merry ol men are we,...the Army's fair- but it can't compare- with the marine corps infantry" ;) yo scotty.. :salute sir,.....ya know I'm razzin ya !
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OK, I'll spell it out for ya hun. I could not believe that sooo many folks, yes here in /AH were going to vote for this ****head yet again. That prompted me to leave. Does that make any sense mr. wizard?
Yes it does, you're too weak minded to seperate a hobby from politics.
Thanks for clearing that up. :aok
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Air Warrior: Vietnam
-GAME shapes-
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q260/1grayeagle/misc/Feetwet.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q260/1grayeagle/misc/F_4j.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q260/1grayeagle/misc/rollin105d.jpg)
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q260/1grayeagle/misc/SAMqual.jpg)
Ya .. everything worked .. and these were done by me about 10 *years* ago.
You can draw your own conclusions about how the 'Stang would have looked.
-GE
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Damn bro that's just wrong to show us that . :cry . I always loved your artwork GE . i went to the link for your webpage looking for some to use as a desktop etc . Couldn't find any . I would love to buy a lithograph or two from you . Freakin awesome wild weasel bro <S> .
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Ya I dont know what happened to +Mia .. his WW2 pilots site was awesome.
Been down awhile now, and his old email bounces when I tried to ask how he was doin.
Was up a long time ..just a shame I never made it over for one of his 'lunches' with his Dad and friends.
Ah well ..
CON.
-GE
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I started on a/h 1.........6 months into a/h I copped a attitude(bush re-elected)....so I went & downloaded A/W..... got in the game,....pressed the "start" button for the motor....... listened to the engine, 20 sec's,...maybe longer......then deleted A/W, and came back to A/H with a bit different attitude. Thats my experience w/ A/W. :salute
Could not have happened. Did this happen to you in the twilight zone or are you just making crap up?
The last version was Air Warrior III Millennium Version, and the last day of on-line flying was December 7, 2001, the sixtieth anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
George Bush is the forty-third and current President of the United States. He was sworn in on January 20, 2001 for the first time after beating some lying lib schmuck... so some would say.
Bush ran for re-election against JFFK in 2004 and won.
I loved that game BTW. First flight sim I ever played. People were cool and mostly adults.
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yep, it happened, dunno the dates for sure, but it was laughable compared to a/h....geez maybe i been at this longer than i thought. I'm one of those guys that didnt discover, or care about the forum's for quite some time after joining /AH....im guessing yrs. I visited the twilight zone in 83 though :), maybe I'm stuck.......ohhhhh geez, someone tell me this is reality? :aok
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I started playing AW on the Genie server and yes.....The graphics sucked but the gameplay was awesome!
I then switched to AWII and then AWII...the only real improvements to these games were of course the graphics but also the base capture aspect. The folks there were VERY friendly and my squad the =Air Pirates= was a respected bunch that had contacts outside of the game.....TWAY where are you!!
When AWIII went down :frown: i was at a loss until i was watching Discovery channel one day and saw the advertisment for Aces High. I thought maybe its like AWIII.....To my surprise it was and more! i have been on ever since. Even buying a better ciomputer to keep up with the times :rock
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OK, I'll spell it out for ya hun. I could not believe that sooo many folks, yes here in /AH were going to vote for this ****head yet again. That prompted me to leave. Does that make any sense mr. wizard?
Bush DOES control the weather!
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I have to say that this thread does make me a bit nastalgic. When I got out of the Navy in 94 I was laid up pretty bad and could do much besides build model airplanes and watch the three channels that we had in my home town. When I got my first check from the VA it was back dated to the day I got out and was enough for a brand new Pentium 75 (I didn't know what that meant at the time but my Dad and Sister were jealouse so I knew it had to be good.) When AOL added Usenet I was already starting to figure out the whole computer thingy and was chatting up a starm with people all over the place. I was on a channel talking about WWII planes and somebody brought up Warbirds and said I should check it out. I sometimes wish I had stuck to Worlds chat and Alpha world...
My on and off romance with the boys in grapevine has been going now for around 14 years. sure I remember being able to capture a base by myself, and nothing was more thrilling than landing on a filed that you had flattened to be the one who claimed it, but it was rediculously unrealistic. It led to really bad behavior as well. If you doubt this, just remember what it was like without kill shooter (though friendly firballing was a blast at times.) I think that these guys have done a remarkable job at building a more and more realistic simulation of flying a WWII plane, and all the while trying to balance realism with making the game safe from cheating "gaming the game" tards. I don't envy their jobs, they have to comprimise on their ideals because for every guy out there that takes this serious as a simulation, there are 50 that are just out relive bordom by shooting something or if they don't have the skill to do that, by ruining someone elses exsperience.
Bottom line, this sim is a hell of a lot better than anything I could have imagined in 1994. I'm just glad that when when Warbids was bought up by people with no soals, HT and Pyro and the gang decided not to let the dream die. The game is what you make of it, and to me, I still get the same thrill I did the first time I went wheels up.
Thanks HTC for all the hard word and dedication.
:aok
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I could not agree with you more. I too get nostalgic when i see or hear about AWIII but since finding this game i havent looked back. AH is by far the best of both AWIII and WB. It incorporates all of the fun, the physics and the realisim that was AWIII and the pretty graphics of WB. Thank you HTC for the game!
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From AW lead artist perspective
Frank?!?? Is that you?!
DUDE! I just found a pencil drawing of a FW190 you gave me um.. er.. two decades ago at the LA con. It's being mounted right now, acid-free and UV-protected. Man, it is a beautiful piece. Thank you again.
The main difference between AW and AH is $6/hour with an ELO scoring system. Jump em and they bailed.
Peace on you all. :pray
Mullah
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Mullah!!
You are so very welcome .. you shaped the Hate that was Air Warrior right there along with Dok, Ghostrider, ..so many others :)
Hey, dood .. lets get a lotta new guys, fly low in bombers ..and call 'em ..
AGGRESSORS!!
Gawd you had me rollin HARD with your rants ..laffed to tears so many nights ..you were right on.
(about the 50th time we all got shot down ..all of us .. by Mullah .. I began to wonder if ..er .. maybe we should get some altitude? ..doods?)
ROFL .. blast from the past for sure :)
I remember a couple years later ..you and I in low Wulfs went over A-land and just fried poor Pangloss and a buncha other donut till we were both bingo ammo ..then flew back .. I dont think we ever got over 500ft AGL the whole time ..laffed to tears over that one too.
Amazing times.
-GE aka Frank
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BE....
The big difference between AW and AH isn't base capture. It's price. The by-gone days you are talking about were in a time when the game cost $6 per hour to play ($18 per if you played during business hours). This made the game almost exclusively an adult game (not saying everyone acted like adults :D). Additionally, the user base was about 10% of what it is in AH. In a smaller game, you knew everyone. As often as not, it didn't take more than one or two moves for people to recognize who they were fighting. BTW, there were captureable based in AW before there was an AH or a WarBirds. :)
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Awww man AW Vietnam... how i used to DROOL over the thought of a cat shot in a phantom... great screenies
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Of course, most of you have heard the old timers from AW recount the days of chivalry, letting wounded opponents go, everybody <S>ing and talking about it being "all about the fight". A lot of that is true but of course, some is just nostalgic selective memory. People tend to forget the bad stuff.
Its called,"The decline of American decency and morality"
Look at your History Bald, the difference between attitudes during WWII
and now. Look how long the feelings of pride and patriotism lasted after
911 untill we became divided over that matter. Compared to how together
Americans were after Pearl Harbor, The tons of sacrafice and un-selfishness
untill the war was won.
Now were just "me-me-me", "Now-now-now", and the media is
more into, "What kinda dirt can we dig up on "Joe-the-Plumber". :furious
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I think it's reasonable to assume that a company such as EA did enough due dilligance to know exactly what they were buying, what it's revenues, profits and subscriber numbers were and also enough to make reasonable projections.
The way the deal went down and thier quick exit suggest that there were other motives for that aquisition.
IIRC the moment EA bought Kesmai, all development on AWIII stopped. Is that how a company that's buying for the future handles things? I think not. I think they planned on killing Kesmai from the outset.
Agreed 110% !
EA had a grave dug and waiting for Air Warrior before they acquired
it !
Also I am aware of two different people that tried to buy AW and EA refused to even consider a counter offer .... EA had absolutely no interest other than to get control of it , and Kill it !
BaldEagl,
I hate EA and the Bastages that killed Air Warrior ......
I had a lot of fun playing AW ...
I had belonged to `CUCAS SQUAD` and when the word came down that EA was killing Aw the squad petered out... was disbanded ....
I was then asked to join The Sea Serpents and we were all online and in the game the night that EA
pulled the plug ..
Our CO of The Sea Serpents, HG summed it up best when just before the lights went out that night sent an
open remark to EA F**K You EA ..... ....
Regards,
Bob/CHECKERS aka `Cucas Squad CHKRS` SeaSerpents CHKRS