Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hangtime on September 14, 2008, 03:18:20 PM
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Lehman brothers is about to tank. 'Rescue' strategies are being deliberated today.. how many more will fall? Cripes... watch the sovereign funds start eating up the crumbling american banking houses at fire sale prices..
Potential buyers could include Bank of America Corp., Britain's Barclay's Plc, Japan's Nomura Securities, France's BNP Paribas and Deutsche Bank AG. All have declined to comment.
Global fears intensified Saturday that the collapse of the country's fourth-largest investment bank would stagger markets and undercut confidence in the U.S. financial system.
U.S. regulators face growing pressure from abroad to find a way out ahead of Monday's reopening of Asian markets. Germany's Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck urged that a resolution be found before then, warning ominously, "the news that is coming out of the U.S. is bad."
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D935URU80.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily (http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D935URU80.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily)
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Bank of America is my bank, looks like i picked a winner. :D
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Economy is fubar, but what'd you expect from 7 years of moron. :aok
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Economy is fubar, but what'd you expect from 7 years of moron. :aok
OH MAN CAN'T WAIT FOR CHANGE
:rolleyes:
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Economy is fubar, but what'd you expect from 7 years of moron. :aok
Ok Exactly what did Bush specifically do to cause the economy to tank?
I'll agree with you the economy inst doing well at all.
Anyone who thinks it is is either blind or stupid.
But I disagree with you that it was caused by Bush
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Ok Exactly what did Bush specifically do to cause the economy to tank?
I'll agree with you the economy inst doing well at all.
Anyone who thinks it is is either blind or stupid.
But I disagree with you that it was caused by Bush
It was caused by his leadership. I don't have time to give details, sorry.
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It was caused by his leadership. I don't have time to give details, sorry.
Argument and proof by assertion. This appears to be your standard...
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Economy is fubar, but what'd you expect from 7 years of moron. :aok
:rofl
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Economy is fubar, but what'd you expect from 7 years of moron. :aok
morons. and not the ones you think.
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I claim it was caused by his leadership. I don't have a valid argument, sorry.
Fixed.
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I personally think that the first person who suggested nationalization of Freddie and Fannie in the meeting room shouldn't have made it out of the room alive.
But now that we've started, we won't be able to stop people from their own stupidity.
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LOL Virgil!
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I personally think that the first person who suggested nationalization of Freddie and Fannie in the meeting room shouldn't have made it out of the room alive.
But now that we've started, we won't be able to stop people from their own stupidity.
it's gonna kick off runaway inflation.. which drives more homeowners under... ruh roh.
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it's gonna kick off runaway inflation.. which drives more homeowners under... ruh roh.
Soon we'll have the government running in to rub aloe on all the retards who put their hand on a hot burner. Not long after that, we'll have the government preemptively take away everyone's stove.
Nature abhors a moron.
This reverse darwinism roadkill is crippling us.
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FED: '...gotta save daddy daytrader.... call the treasury dept! roll the presses!'
IMF: 'pawnd!'
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Soon we'll have the government running in to rub aloe on all the retards who put their hand on a hot burner. Not long after that, we'll have the government preemptively take away everyone's stove.
Nature abhors a moron.
This reverse darwinism bullpoop is crippling us.
[hijak]Aloe works like a miracle. Best if you have a plant.[/hijak]
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Fixed.
He led us into IRAQ, which is big burden on our economy. :devil
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[hijak]Aloe works like a miracle. Best if you have a plant.[/hijak]
It makes me feel closer to nature when I can just grab a leaf off the plant on the front porch and sooth a bee sting. Aloe is good.
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I'm REALLY stretching now, in desperation, which is big burden on our BBS. :devil
:rofl
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It makes me feel closer to nature when I can just grab a leaf off the plant on the front porch and sooth a bee sting. Aloe is good.
Have one on our back porch. Front porches seem to be disappearing these days. Folks are missing out on what I enjoyed when young. Walking through the neighborhood, stopping to chat with those sitting out on their front porches.
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Have one on our back porch. Front porches seem to be disappearing these days. Folks are missing out on what I enjoyed when young. Walking through the neighborhood, stopping to chat with those sitting out on their front porches.
Back porches are good if you've got a back yard. Just sitting in a semi-private setting and enjoying nature; it doesn't get any better than that.
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It was caused by his leadership. I don't have time to give details, sorry.
Actually I'm no expert, but I'd say it was caused by the monetary policies of Greenspan.
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:rofl
You feel safe here when 90% on here believe like you, blind as a bat and hateful as all get out. You guys like to blame all of the woes we face on some indigent living on welfare. In reality, you are a hater of people who don't look, act, and think like you because you are scared as a yellow bellied redneck can be.
Hope I don't make you cry. :aok
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He led us into IRAQ, which is big burden on our economy. :devil
Ummm...we've been there since late 2002, and the economy has experienced nearly 5 years of steady growth throughout, until A. mortgae default thing.... B. oil price spikes......What did Boosh do to cause THAT, and how would either Ron Paul (with Dem congress) or Barack have prevented it?
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You feel safe here when 90% on here believe like you, blind as a bat and hateful as all get out. You guys like to blame all of the woes we face on some indigent living on welfare. In reality, you are a hater of people who don't look, act, and think like you because you are scared as a yellow bellied redneck can be.
Hope I don't make you cry. :aok
See, you just THINK you know me. And now, faced with your own lack of evidence to support your argument, you have nothing left to offer in defense of your position but a sad attempt at a personal attack on someone you once claimed you were a friend of. But you were never a friend of anyone, and you did not know me at all. Your opinion is so baseless, and so lacking in fact, that it does not matter at all to me. You lack the knowledge and the intelligence to make me cry. But you have enough arrogance and ignorance to keep me laughing for hours at a time. But keep trolling, and keep trying, it is all you have.
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You feel safe here when 90% on here believe like you, blind as a bat and hateful as all get out. You guys like to blame all of the woes we face on some indigent living on welfare. In reality, you are a hater of people who don't look, act, and think like you because you are scared as a yellow bellied redneck can be.
Hope I don't make you cry. :aok
Woah. That's, like, so deep man.
Poor people on welfare are the source of my anguish. And They look different. Are you saying that all people on welfare are non-white? I'm afraid of people who don't look like me on welfare? You're teaching my kids???
Cod hep us every one.
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You feel safe here when 90% on here believe like you, blind as a bat and hateful as all get out. You guys like to blame all of the woes we face on some indigent living on welfare. In reality, you are a hater of people who don't look, act, and think like you because you are scared as a yellow bellied redneck can be.
Hope I don't make you cry. :aok
actually, since yer here, we'd rather see you suffer for their sins.
How about a nice, safe partisan tax plan.
Democrats should get a tax increase, republicans a tax break. This way, everybody's happy.
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Actually I'm no expert, but I'd say it was caused by the monetary policies of Greenspan.
Neither Greenspan or Bush had anything to do with the housing bubble... That was caused entirely by Congress passing laws designed to encourage home ownership by people with lower incomes, and simultaneously allowing those loans to be packaged and sold as investments which encouraged the banks and investing companies to give riskier and riskier loans. Both laws had the intended effect, with disastrous consequences. People who had no business buying a house were told that buying houses with loans they could not possibly pay off was somehow their right and the realization of the American Dream, and investment managers got rich trading these worthless loans. Given the inevitable outcome when adjustable rate mortgages hit the end of their low-rate period, it's clear that congress got exactly what they intended with these laws - people who had an income that could not support home ownership were kicked out of the homes they never should have had in the first place, and investment companies were stuck with worthless pieces of paper and rendered insolvent almost overnight. The laws couldn't have caused more damage if they were specifically intended to bring down the mortgage industry (reference the tobacco industry which has survived numerous legislative attempts to destroy it).
It's easy to assign blame for the mortgage crisis and resulting economic disaster, but there were a couple of laws pushed through by Congress without Presidential influence that directly encouraged and enabled the process. And those laws were passed while the Democrats were in power. this should not be a surprise, since "a home for every family" was the liberal rallying cry that led to these laws being passed without serious opposition. It's typical liberal koolaid, making terrible laws based on an unrealistic dream of how things ought to be. Well, people who can't afford homes should not be enticed to buy homes they can't afford with loans they can not repay. It's as simple as that and no amount of pretty speeches about rainbows and ponies will ever change that.
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well one thing is for sure, tomorrow will be a blood bath, but tis is the fate of having a fake illusion of a free market.
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that first part is scary! tell me about the rainbows and ponies again, daddy...
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Ok Exactly what did Bush specifically do to cause the economy to tank?
Spent 10 gazillion dollars, gave carte blanche to corps because regulation doesn't work.
There's 2
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Spent 10 gazillion dollars, gave carte blanche to corps because regulation doesn't work.
There's 2
The president doesn't spend money. That's what Congress does. The President does submit his own budget which is essentially the framework his party will start with, but Congress actually makes the budget and the laws to implement the budget. Yes the war in Iraq was expensive and the money might have been better spent elsewhere (we'll never know, but we haven't been successfully attacked again either) but at the most you can blame the president for not vetoing spending bills that grew out of control during the last 8 years.
This is one reason why Congress as a whole has a lower approval rating than the President... Most people realize that Congress is more "at fault" for the budget problems than the President if for no other reason than they continued to fight for partisan agendas and increased non-defense spending during a time of war. Both parties share the fault and it's stupid to try to place all the blame on the president. Most people know this, hence congress' 13% approval rating.
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See, you just THINK you know me. And now, faced with your own lack of evidence to support your argument, you have nothing left to offer in defense of your position but a sad attempt at a personal attack on someone you once claimed you were a friend of. But you were never a friend of anyone, and you did not know me at all. Your opinion is so baseless, and so lacking in fact, that it does not matter at all to me. You lack the knowledge and the intelligence to make me cry. But you have enough arrogance and ignorance to keep me laughing for hours at a time. But keep trolling, and keep trying, it is all you have.
I apologize. I felt you were attacking me by calling me a liar. I shouldnt have typed that.
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I apologize. I felt you were attacking me by calling me a liar. I shouldnt have typed that.
That's fine, no problem. You should know by now if I was calling you a liar, I would not mince words.
What I AM saying is that you have not offered supporting evidence for your statement. What you DID offer was "Iraq". If you look at what the Iraq war has actually cost, you can obviously see that the Iraq war is NOT what has damaged the economy. The truth is, Bush has made some mistakes regarding the economy, but they aren't nearly as bad as what Congress has done and continued to do. Now, Bush has failed to veto a lot of spending I hoped and expected him to veto. I hold Bush AND Congress responsible. Them for rampant spending and stupid lending laws, and Bush for failing to veto and failing to cut spending himself. And even Obama is now saying "I would hesitate to roll back the tax cuts because of how the economy is struggling". Those tax cuts he hesitates are the so called "Bush tax cuts". Without those tax cuts, the economy would have foundered years ago. Bush just failed to cut spending and taxes even more.
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does anyone else feel like they are getting it from both ends.
I have a home loan, I pay ALOT of money in interest. Same goes for auto and credit cards that I have.
I also pay taxes to my govt be it through income or otherwise.
NOW these guys that make a TON of money off of me simply because I owe them money get their tulips bailed out by ME through taxes???
It's angering me, it really is. What happens if we just let them fold?
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It's angering me, it really is. What happens if we just let them fold?
If they fold, the banks collapse, taking people's savings with them. Only $100,000 per account per bank is insured by the federal govt, so not only would tax dollars still have to go towards the financial disaster, it would also take people's savings and investments with it. The accompanying market collapse would render both cash and stock investments nearly worthless, as banks and companies defaulted on loans and bonds.
No, the govt has to be involved because the alternative is more painful. A soft crash redistributes wealth (often in the wrong direction) but a hard crash is worse.
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Economy is fubar, but what'd you expect from 7 years of moron. :aok
I wouldn't call him a Moron but still you have a point. Being the liberal you are you should like all the freebies he has bestowed like Paid prescriptions. Taking over Fannie mae. All socialist ideals. But I agree he has tanked the economy. I guess you can include all the pork too. I noticed he had nothing but help from the democrats. To me he's been a huge disappointment in this regard.
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Economy is fubar, but what'd you expect from 7 years of moron. :aok
Funny thing is, it's still climbing :rolleyes:
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Funny thing is, it's still climbing :rolleyes:
Yea, the price of oil is down about 30% and the dollar is strengthening enough that even last week's OPEC production cuts failed to keep oil prices high.
I think that if the market players don't panic and the economy can be kept from a hard crash, we'll see conditions for a really good economic rebound just in time for the next president to take credit for saving the nation's economy :rolleyes: That's the way it always works because our market is inherently cyclic.
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Funny thing is, it's still climbing :rolleyes:
LOL 1plus, very well said yet again. Smart kid you are. I guess I bit into some liberal lies. Shame on me.
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We are being screwed from both sides, republicans and democrats. Its thats simple.
and after two weeks on the road i come back and i cant fly cause the servers are down.
:noid
zuii! <S>
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It was caused by his leadership. I don't have time to give details, sorry.
The proof is in the details
If you cant provide the details
Then the entire claim is invalid.
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Late breaking news
Wall Street Prepares for Potential Lehman Bankruptcy (Update3)
By Craig Torres and Shannon Harrington
Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Wall Street readied for a potential Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. bankruptcy after Bank of America Corp. and Barclays Plc pulled out of talks to buy it and the government indicated it wouldn't provide funds to prevent a collapse.
Banks and brokers today held a session for netting derivatives transactions with Lehman, or canceling trades that offset each other, in case the New York-based firm files for bankruptcy before midnight
Full article at http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNMh_8NRE6QM&refer=home (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNMh_8NRE6QM&refer=home)
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Funny thing is, it's still climbing :rolleyes:
So is the unemployment rate.
Which I think is a better indicator of how the economy is doing
Has been for 6 months now.
Not the sign of a good economy
"Friday, September 5, 2008.
The unemployment rate rose from 5.7 to 6.1 percent in August, and non-
farm payroll employment continued to trend down (-84,000), the Bureau of
Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today."
http://stats.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
(http://media.monster.com/a/i/intelligence/Images/National_unemployment.jpg)
Manufacturing lost 61,000 jobs, while construction employment fell by 8,000. But the job losses were widespread and went beyond those two troubled sectors.
Retailers trimmed 20,000 jobs despite the back-to-school shopping season, which for many stores is typically second in sales only to the holiday period. Business and professional services - a broad category that includes industries such as accountants, consultants and legal services - lost 53,000 workers. Leisure and hospitality cut 4,000 jobs.
Construction employment fell..during what is traditionally the busy season. you can expect that number to climb as the winter months set in
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Neither Greenspan or Bush had anything to do with the housing bubble... That was caused entirely by Congress passing laws designed to encourage home ownership by people with lower incomes, and simultaneously allowing those loans to be packaged and sold as investments which encouraged the banks and investing companies to give riskier and riskier loans. Both laws had the intended effect, with disastrous consequences. People who had no business buying a house were told that buying houses with loans they could not possibly pay off was somehow their right and the realization of the American Dream, and investment managers got rich trading these worthless loans. Given the inevitable outcome when adjustable rate mortgages hit the end of their low-rate period, it's clear that congress got exactly what they intended with these laws - people who had an income that could not support home ownership were kicked out of the homes they never should have had in the first place, and investment companies were stuck with worthless pieces of paper and rendered insolvent almost overnight. The laws couldn't have caused more damage if they were specifically intended to bring down the mortgage industry (reference the tobacco industry which has survived numerous legislative attempts to destroy it).
It's easy to assign blame for the mortgage crisis and resulting economic disaster, but there were a couple of laws pushed through by Congress without Presidential influence that directly encouraged and enabled the process. And those laws were passed while the Democrats were in power. this should not be a surprise, since "a home for every family" was the liberal rallying cry that led to these laws being passed without serious opposition. It's typical liberal koolaid, making terrible laws based on an unrealistic dream of how things ought to be. Well, people who can't afford homes should not be enticed to buy homes they can't afford with loans they can not repay. It's as simple as that and no amount of pretty speeches about rainbows and ponies will ever change that.
By the way it was this same scheme that landed the savings and loans in Arkansas in hot water and somehow Ms. Clinton made a ton of money on the deal (paybacks) and it never made the light of day somehow.
I wonder which politicians made money on it this time? :rolleyes:
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...and the dollar is strengthening enough that even last week's OPEC production cuts failed to keep oil prices high...
Unfortunately, that's primarily because everyone's realized the Euro zone countries are as shagged as everywhere else rather than any great news coming out of the US.
Pretty much agree with everything else you say though. We're simply at the end of the property 'gold rush'. People will / are getting burned, and its a shame, but in 8 to 10 years, after another period of growth, we'll be right back here again. I'm personally finding this current downturn a lot less traumatic than the dot com crash.
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Neither Greenspan or Bush had anything to do with the housing bubble... That was caused entirely by Congress passing laws designed to encourage home ownership by people with lower incomes, and simultaneously allowing those loans to be packaged and sold as investments which encouraged the banks and investing companies to give riskier and riskier loans. Both laws had the intended effect, with disastrous consequences. People who had no business buying a house were told that buying houses with loans they could not possibly pay off was somehow their right and the realization of the American Dream, and investment managers got rich trading these worthless loans. Given the inevitable outcome when adjustable rate mortgages hit the end of their low-rate period, it's clear that congress got exactly what they intended with these laws - people who had an income that could not support home ownership were kicked out of the homes they never should have had in the first place, and investment companies were stuck with worthless pieces of paper and rendered insolvent almost overnight. The laws couldn't have caused more damage if they were specifically intended to bring down the mortgage industry (reference the tobacco industry which has survived numerous legislative attempts to destroy it).
It's easy to assign blame for the mortgage crisis and resulting economic disaster, but there were a couple of laws pushed through by Congress without Presidential influence that directly encouraged and enabled the process. And those laws were passed while the Democrats were in power. this should not be a surprise, since "a home for every family" was the liberal rallying cry that led to these laws being passed without serious opposition. It's typical liberal koolaid, making terrible laws based on an unrealistic dream of how things ought to be. Well, people who can't afford homes should not be enticed to buy homes they can't afford with loans they can not repay. It's as simple as that and no amount of pretty speeches about rainbows and ponies will ever change that.
It's funny how you always blame the democrats even though it's been Republicans with control of congress for what 10 of the last 12 years? I suppose all this mess just came about in the last year and a half.
The deregulation came from Republican senators who slipped it in a a rider with a bill they knew Clinton would sign. The deregulation is what allowed this mess to happen. The deregulation is what allowed the banks to push all the ARM's and interest only loans, not affordable housing bills.
btw the fact people weren't able to afford their loans wasn't the only issue. These companies used these loans like a pyramid scheme to borrow more and more money. So don't try to blame this entire mess on people that couldn't afford what they bought, big business holds it's fair share of driving the sinking ship right into the iceberg. Again yet another problem that came from the deregulation.
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the neocons sure are making the world a safer place for socialized capitalism.
crack me up... so now they have socialized the mortgage industry and some investment banking just to secure more credit from china to continue deficit spending... :rofl
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crock-it.. the entire housing problem has everything to do with people buying what they could not afford..
I don't care how easy it was to make a loan.. I was not going to by a million dollar home on interest only for 3 years and no down. lots of people did.. lots of people who made almost nothing bought 400k homes on adjustable rates.
All this inflated home prices and made things worse till the bubble burst. 1% are defaulting.. that is all.. that is all it took.
lazs
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the entire housing problem has everything to do with people buying what they could not afford..
Another major problem came from contractors gaming the system. Creating huge tracts of housing, that would be valued at over inflated amounts. As long as you continue developing, you can continue to receive loans and not have to pay anything back. As a developer, you create housing, have it appraised at a high value, then reapply for a loan taken from the appraisal amount on a new complex. The loan would be for a substantial amount more than the actual value of the housing.
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crock-it.. the entire housing problem has everything to do with people buying what they could not afford..
I don't care how easy it was to make a loan.. I was not going to by a million dollar home on interest only for 3 years and no down. lots of people did.. lots of people who made almost nothing bought 400k homes on adjustable rates.
All this inflated home prices and made things worse till the bubble burst. 1% are defaulting.. that is all.. that is all it took.
lazs
Here, I'm gonna agree with Lasz. People agreeing to pay these ridiculous amounts' kept letting prices advance. However, I see the buyers' as only one small part of the problem; complicity resides not only in the lenders, but in the realtors who pushed the ever-increasing prices (with ever-increasing commissions) and with developers as well. IMHO, they are all just as guilty as the mortgage lenders.
The sad thing about the whole mess was that many people were driven to buy by the rising prices, watching them spiraling upward, thinking "buy now, or never get in" and being re-assured of their purchase by everyone that Home prices would only keep climbing...Even when those prices had already gone up past what they could realistically afford, no matter what kind of cockamamie payment scheme's the bank's came up with.
One law regulating sales, at just about any point of this chain, would have kept this from happening. Either a regulation about lending (without the loopholes), One on Realty's for price increase...But we let business run amok, and after all's said and done, it looks' like the U.S. taxpayer is gonna start taking a hit again, because of it.
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Neither Greenspan or Bush had anything to do with the housing bubble... That was caused entirely by Congress passing laws designed to encourage home ownership by people with lower incomes, and simultaneously allowing those loans to be packaged and sold as investments which encouraged the banks and investing companies to give riskier and riskier loans. Both laws had the intended effect, with disastrous consequences. People who had no business buying a house were told that buying houses with loans they could not possibly pay off was somehow their right and the realization of the American Dream, and investment managers got rich trading these worthless loans. Given the inevitable outcome when adjustable rate mortgages hit the end of their low-rate period, it's clear that congress got exactly what they intended with these laws - people who had an income that could not support home ownership were kicked out of the homes they never should have had in the first place, and investment companies were stuck with worthless pieces of paper and rendered insolvent almost overnight. The laws couldn't have caused more damage if they were specifically intended to bring down the mortgage industry (reference the tobacco industry which has survived numerous legislative attempts to destroy it).
It's easy to assign blame for the mortgage crisis and resulting economic disaster, but there were a couple of laws pushed through by Congress without Presidential influence that directly encouraged and enabled the process. And those laws were passed while the Democrats were in power. this should not be a surprise, since "a home for every family" was the liberal rallying cry that led to these laws being passed without serious opposition. It's typical liberal koolaid, making terrible laws based on an unrealistic dream of how things ought to be. Well, people who can't afford homes should not be enticed to buy homes they can't afford with loans they can not repay. It's as simple as that and no amount of pretty speeches about rainbows and ponies will ever change that.
if the mortgage companies can be bailed out by the govt, then why are they allowed to completely rape US citizens that have lower incomes with ungodly interest rates that go up, and up, and up. I mean what did they think they were going to be able to do, get the most money out of those with the least?
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crock-it.. the entire housing problem has everything to do with people buying what they could not afford..
I don't care how easy it was to make a loan.. I was not going to by a million dollar home on interest only for 3 years and no down. lots of people did.. lots of people who made almost nothing bought 400k homes on adjustable rates.
All this inflated home prices and made things worse till the bubble burst. 1% are defaulting.. that is all.. that is all it took.
lazs
lard how in the hell do you think those people were able to buy those homes they couldn't afford? Humm could it be because the market was deregulated and the loan companies figured out ways to work in people that shouldn't be buying houses?
Think for a min Larz. It was wide spread problem that loan agents were helping these people get into loans they couldn't afford and in many cases deliberately misleading many of them. It was nothing more than a pyramid scheme because the mortgage companies kept pushing these ARM's and Interest only loans because they were making crap-loads of money from them.
Did people buying more than they could afford cause this problem? Yes partially but the bigger problem came from the industry from the Realtors on up. The entire industry was pushing these poop loans because it made them money, but did they do their due diligence to make sure these people could afford these loans?
Hell no, these companies loaned the money on the idea that the housing market was going to keep on going up. The biggest speculators in the game were the loan shark mortgage companies. Add to that they kept borrowing on top of loan on top of loan in a massive pyramid scheme that has the potential to bankrupt this country.
Sorry Lard but you can't just blame the morons who bought more than they could afford, when the companies lending to them were willingly pushing the money at them. Dude have you even bought a house in the last few years?
I bought a house back in the mid to late 90's when I first turned 21. It was all I could do to get a loan for $54k and I made decent money then. Now 2 years ago just as this mess was starting to show it's ugly head, I was about to buy a condo in down town Austin. The mortgage brokers were trying to push me toward much more expensive houses than I wanted to buy, simply because they could get me into a bigger loan. I knew what I could afford and what I wanted to spend yet yet these guys were bending over backwards trying to push me into another $100k worth of loan.
I ended up deciding not to buy at that time and I'm glad I didn't but one thing is for sure the lending companies tried their best to push ARM & Interest only loans at me, which of course I'd never do anyway because I know better. In short trying to blame this entire mess on people who couldn't afford their houses just shows that you have no clue what was going on.
Yes they are to blame for their individual loan, but 1 average Joe doesn't cause a bank to collapse. Giving out thousands of loans with out proper due diligence causes a bank and possible the entire economy to fail. None of these average Joe's would have gotten their loans had the market been properly regulated and the loan companies did their due diligence. No one can be blamed for giving out the loan other than the company who gave out the loan.
Of course while you will scream socialism you won't see the forest for the trees.. Will the average Joe be helped out of this mess? Hell no, the only help the average Joe will see, is because it might help the lenders. The socialism you always cry about is already here Lard, except it's goes to big business to dug their way into this mess reaping profits all the way to the bank and now they get bailed out by the average Joe's tax dollars.
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if the mortgage companies can be bailed out by the govt, then why are they allowed to completely rape US citizens that have lower incomes with ungodly interest rates that go up, and up, and up. I mean what did they think they were going to be able to do, get the most money out of those with the least?
Those companies knew exactly what they were doing. They were working on a 5 year plan assuming the people would get refinanced, default on the loan in that time frame or sell the loan to another company. It didn't matter either way, to the loan sharks because their risk was covered by the federal govt. They just played hot potato with the loans making massive profits the first few years and even if the people get in over their head the companies still profited by foreclosing.
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crock-it.. listen to yourself.. you are proving my point..
anyone with any brains was not gonna get one of those loans no matter how attractive it was laid out to them.. they did the lemming thing... "everyone was doing it" not so. everyone was not doing it. the default rate is 1%..
You can't force people to take a loan.. I will grant that some of the lenders flat out lied and did illegal things.. that will always be the case.
One of the problems was the government forcing lending companies to relax their process to include "low income" and minorities.. they made it very attractive for them to make risky loans. they also knew the government would bail em out and that they would not get hurt.
The involvement of the government is the problem not the reverse.
lazs
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I'm totally pissed they're helping Fannie and Freddie. Interest rates dropped .75 % about a week after I closed on my house. Not that I wish anyone had to pay more interest...but dang...such a small change makes for several thousand dollars I could've saved.
Back to the salt mine (sound of whip cracking)
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FDR on the Depression of his era. A fitting quote I feel.
On the Great Depression of 1929:
“ Primarily this is because rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and have abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men. True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence....The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit. ”
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The unscrupoulus in this case being liberals. Our money clearly says on the back 'In God We Trust' yet the liberals have denied God and removed God from all facets of Government.
Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and unto God that which is Godly.
Roosevelt wasnt that great.
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In 1999 Klinton signed into law S.900: Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999.
*poof* went Glass-Steagall.. the act passed by congress in 1933 to prevent another stock market crash from destroying the economy.
SANTA MONICA, Calif. (MarketWatch) — Time was when banks and brokerages were separate entities, banned from uniting for fear of conflicts of interest, a financial meltdown, a monopoly on the markets, all of these things.
In 1999, the law banning brokerages and banks from marrying one another — the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 — was lifted, and voila, the financial supermarket has grown to be the places we know as Citigroup, UBS, Deutsche Bank, et al.
But now that banks seemingly have stumbled over their bad mortgages, it’s worth asking whether the fallout would be wreaking so much havoc on the rest of the financial markets had Glass-Steagall been kept in place.
Diversity has always been the pathway to lowering risk. And Glass-Steagall kept diversity in place by separating the financial powers that be: banks and brokerages.
Glass-Steagall was passed by Congress to prohibit banks from owning full-service brokerage firms and vice versa so investment banking activities, such as underwriting corporate or municipal securities, couldn’t be called into question and also to insulate bank depositors from the risks of a stock market collapse such as the one that precipitated the Great Depression.
But as banks increasingly encroached upon the securities business by offering discount trades and mutual funds, the securities industry cried foul. So in that telling year of 1999, the prohibition ended and financial giants swooped in. Citigroup led the way and others followed. We saw Smith Barney, Salomon Brothers, PaineWebber and lots of other well-known brokerage brands gobbled up.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/would-glass-steagall-save-day-credit/story.aspx?guid={3AA33D85-AD38-41B4-B300-033235B5734A} (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/would-glass-steagall-save-day-credit/story.aspx?guid={3AA33D85-AD38-41B4-B300-033235B5734A})
Looks like that be a 'ah-chit' moment for the democrats.
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The unscrupoulus in this case being liberals. Our money clearly says on the back 'In God We Trust' yet the liberals have denied God and removed God from all facets of Government.
Render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars and unto God that which is Godly.
Roosevelt wasnt that great.
WTF are you talking about? God has nothing to do with this... talk about zealot.
Unfortunately, if you read the history books, you'll find that everyone else besides the United States was basically vanquished. Had Roosevelt not been there, we'd probably be speaking deutsche....your republican conservatives were crying for isolationism...for appeasement.
Roosevelt wasnt that great... He just propped the whole country back up after the Depression, and saw through the biggest conflict in human history. I figure that only Lincoln and Washington dealt with harsher issues. You sir, are a moron.
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In 1999 Klinton signed into law S.900: Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999.
What do Klingons have to do with this?
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Unfortunately, if you read the history books, you'll find that everyone else besides the United States was basically vanquished. Had Roosevelt not been there, we'd probably be speaking deutsche....your republican conservatives were crying for isolationism...for appeasement.
I've never read that the republicans wanted to appease the Axis. As far as isolationism goes, the American public didn't want any part of another European war. Roosevelt couldn't take us to war, it would have been political suicide to do so. The only way America was going to enter WWII was if we were attacked first. And as we all know, we were, Japan blind sided us at Pearl Harbor and the rest is history as they say.
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What do Klingons have to do with this?
Oh, crap. I was following links, putting together a response on the topic that was a page or two back. Had no idea we'd gotten to the nazi's already. wasn't expecting that fer a nuther coupla pages.
damn.
Oh, well.. the klingon bomb sounded good at the time...
*sigh*
Carry On.
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Since we're talking economics here...which market do most of you prefer to use as an indicator? The DJIA (which closed over 500 down today... :uhoh), The NYSE, the AMEX...?
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S&P 500 was down 4.7% today. a much broader index than DJIA.
DJIA, -4.42%
five days since 1987 that it lost a higher percentage.
10+ days since 1998 that it had a greater 1 day gain than 4.42%
in 1987, DJIA lost 22.6% and recovered that % by 1990.
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S&P 500 was down 4.7% today. a much broader index than DJIA.
DJIA, -4.42%
five days since 1987 that it lost a higher percentage.
10+ days since 1998 that it had a greater 1 day gain than 4.42%
in 1987, DJIA lost 22.6% and recovered that % by 1990.
Yeah, It's just that the Dow seems' to be on the front page in financial pages. I do know it has the highest point totals, over 14,000 a year and some ago.
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Those companies knew exactly what they were doing. They were working on a 5 year plan assuming the people would get refinanced, default on the loan in that time frame or sell the loan to another company. It didn't matter either way, to the loan sharks because their risk was covered by the federal govt. They just played hot potato with the loans making massive profits the first few years and even if the people get in over their head the companies still profited by foreclosing.
Just a quick note: Foreclosure is NOT profitable. Not at all. These companies don't want anything to do with owning a house, especially if the market is in the crapper.
More government control is never the answer. Ever. You can keep repeating that sick delusion of yours ad infinitum, but that doesn't mean it has worked, or will work.
Stupid people should suffer the consequences of their stupid actions. We sit here and laugh at the fools on Youtube who face plant trying a new skateboarding trick or try to kitesurf in a freaking hurricane. But the moment comes to humiliate both the borrowers who are retards, and the lenders who are just as retarded, and we waffle on it? We feel sorry for them?
Now suddenly we must use the money of the Americans who had the sense to NOT play russian roulette with their finances to bail out mislead corporations and deluded hedge fund buyers?
mask that. I don't care what Eagl says may be the consequences. These people must dig their own retarded tulips out of their own graves.
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Just a quick note: Foreclosure is NOT profitable. Not at all. These companies don't want anything to do with owning a house, especially if the market is in the crapper.
More government control is never the answer. Ever. You can keep repeating that sick delusion of yours ad infinitum, but that doesn't mean it has worked, or will work.
Stupid people should suffer the consequences of their stupid actions. We sit here and laugh at the fools on Youtube who face plant trying a new skateboarding trick or try to kitesurf in a freaking hurricane. But the moment comes to humiliate both the borrowers who are retards, and the lenders who are just as retarded, and we waffle on it? We feel sorry for them?
Now suddenly we must use the money of the Americans who had the sense to NOT play russian roulette with their finances to bail out mislead corporations and deluded hedge fund buyers?
mask that. I don't care what Eagl says may be the consequences. These people must dig their own retarded tulips out of their own graves.
If any corporate entity engaged in the mortgage-lending industry was misled, it was by the carrot of high profits resulting from higher and higher total purchase prices, meaning larger loans and more money from interest. It was hung out there on the pole of greed, that's now going up every taxpayers' rectum sideways with gov't. bailouts of these same greedy companies.
Sadly, more people than just the lenders' were involved. Realty companies' could have done something about it too, but they were raking in more and more money on commisions, so they just rode that pony into the ground as well.
They had an unspoken responsibility to themselves, to keep the market stable. But, just like irresponsible children, they shouldn't have been left to their own devices. The theory of market self-regulation failed miserably in this case. Now, at this point, If we can ever dig ourselves out of this mess, we are gonna have to make the HUD (Department of Housing and Urban Development) figure out what it is gonna do in the future to keep a closer tab on what's going on in their sector of management; If they have to enact new rules, if they have to put in different guidelines, If they have to have someone like a Soviet-era commisar walking around shooting the corrupt ones' at their desks, the sooner the better. How many hits' to our economy can we take like this, anyone? If we ever even see the end of this one?
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the damage is even worse than that.. think of the wealth that was squeezed into the lenders pockets that didn't make it into the hands of local businesses and the mfg/service economy the usual way.. instead, it went from the bottom up, no middleman. Paid on friday and right to leahmans coffers..
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In 1999 Klinton signed into law S.900: Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999.
You are going to feel really dumb when I point out who sponsored the bill..
It's also called the "Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act"
The bills comprising the act were introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA). The bills were passed along party lines with Republican support in the Senate and with bipartisan support in the House of Representatives. It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton.
The banking industry had been seeking the repeal of Glass-Steagall since at least the 1980s. In 1987 the Congressional Research Service prepared a report which explored the case for preserving Glass-Steagall and the case against preserving the act.
source..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
Clinton did sign the bill but the was only after many things were changed because he threatened to veto it, because of some of the stuff the Republicans tried to slip through. The act overall was good for the banking industry and gave some power back to the states in form of insurance regulation. It also provided protection to consumers who use ATM's by making the ATM vendors inform the user as to what the sure charge would be.
However the parts that caused the damage with letting lending companies cause the problems we have today were hidden deep in the 40 thousand pages of legislature. That was thanks to your Republican senator Phil Gramm who took in 1.5 million in donations (bribes) from the banking industry to push this bill. It also increased privacy laws for the consumers.
So before you start to lay blind blame maybe you should do a bit of research on the subject.
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Toss 'em all.
Of course, if you'd like to talk about who's screwing who now, lets have a look at yer boy Biden. The Credit Card Puppet. The K-Street Insider with the lobbyist son. He's the guy that made credit card usury legal. Some might say that makes yer team the dirtiest in this race.
All these cretins are dirty. republicans, democrats. claiming yer turds don't stink any more than the republicans is pretty weak when you look at the facts. Continue to play the party game and you get a fail too.
You get to choose.. do what you think is right; but quit trying to polish yer turds in here. Makes yah look stupid.