Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on September 18, 2008, 11:20:46 PM
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But hey. If your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about. Right?
NY State Inserts Radio Transmitters Into Driver Licenses
by Tim Stevens, posted Sep 18th 2008 at 11:25AM
What can we say about RFIDs -- those radio chips embedded in highway toll readers and the like -- that hasn't already made you afraid? Your passport? Clonable. Your work ID and "secure" credit cards? Yeah, those too. Not scary enough? How about every adult New Yorker walking around with one in their back pocket?
It's just a matter of time, as the Empire State's clearly enhanced driver licenses (says so right on 'em) are now hitting the streets. For $30 on a new one -- or $10 if you're looking to upgrade -- you can get yourself a radio-wave emitting ID, enabling you to cross the border into Mexico, Canada, or the Caribbean sans-passport.
Don't worry, the cards won't be broadcasting any personal information -- just a unique code that the government can use to track your every movement
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/edl-main.htm
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If you have a US Passport, you've been rfid tagged for years.
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I sell jammers.
Fifty bucks... can I put you down for two? Or, for 375$ I can sell you a tracker so you can find out where she's been hangin all day.
;)
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If you have a US Passport, you've been rfid tagged for years.
nope
Hmmm I wonder how well these things handle microwaves
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Well, it has been there for years, if they wanna find out about you they will. Nothing you can do about it. I recommend not worrying.
Les
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nope
yep
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yep
By nope I meant I dont have a passport lol
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If you have a US Passport, you've been rfid tagged for years.
New one on me. :huh
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By nope I meant I dont have a passport lol
Sorry, thought you ment they were'nt tagged. It's inside the back cover. Started after 9/11.
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Most of those people with a mobile phone surgically attached to their bodies also can be tracked pretty reliably as well. :noid
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Most of those people with a mobile phone surgically attached to their bodies also can be tracked pretty reliably as well. :noid
:D
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Sorry, thought you ment they were'nt tagged. It's inside the back cover. Started after 9/11.
LOL My mother for some reason was shocked to find out a couple months ago that I dont have a passport.
"I dont know why.
I've never left the country.
and unless you know something I dont. I have no immediate plans for leaving the country
so why would I need a passport?"
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License? We don need no steeking license.
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If you have a US Passport, you've been rfid tagged for years.
You carry passport everywhere you go?
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You carry passport everywhere you go?
I carry my Canadian passport every time I go to Quebec.
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License? We don need no steeking license.
She surely didn't : http://wcco.com/national/school.bus.crash.2.660598.html (http://wcco.com/national/school.bus.crash.2.660598.html)
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nope
Hmmm I wonder how well these things handle microwaves
The new IDs aren't mandatory, and if the RFID tag hasn't been destroyed (by putting it in a microwave for example) the ID card can work as a substitute for a US passport for travel to and from certain countries.
To keep the govt from "tracking your every move oh teh noes!", you just need an id card holder or wallet with two thin metal plates on the cover. Put the ID card between the plates, and it's unlikely the tag can be read without taking the ID out of the wallet (at the airport for example).
If you keep this and another acceptable form of ID, and cough up the non-tagged ID when you're not travelling anywhere requiring a passport, then you won't be tracked anywhere except where the feds have mandated tracking (ports of entry, border crossing, etc).
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You carry passport everywhere you go?
No, but the point was the Feds have been doing this for years.
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The new IDs aren't mandatory, and if the RFID tag hasn't been destroyed (by putting it in a microwave for example) the ID card can work as a substitute for a US passport for travel to and from certain countries.
To keep the govt from "tracking your every move oh teh noes!", you just need an id card holder or wallet with two thin metal plates on the cover. Put the ID card between the plates, and it's unlikely the tag can be read without taking the ID out of the wallet (at the airport for example).
If you keep this and another acceptable form of ID, and cough up the non-tagged ID when you're not travelling anywhere requiring a passport, then you won't be tracked anywhere except where the feds have mandated tracking (ports of entry, border crossing, etc).
CORRECT, THEY'RE NOT MANDAtory.......yet
the point is that they're trying to create a situation where people want this. everyone says that if you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. WRONGGGGGGGGGGG!!!
ok.....you're a civil servant....a cop, firefighter, teacher, emt.....whatever........it doesn't really matter.
for your second job, you work at place that some may consider "unsavory"
so now, they happen to look at a history of where you've been, and see that you spend X amount of time at certain coordinates. they see what those coordinates are, and since it's "unsavory" in their eyes, you suddenly find yourself suspended from the pd, or fd, or whatever.
see the point"? it's nobodys business what you do or where you go. now people are going to start judging you without knowing you.
same thing happened with ezpass. they said it would never be used for anything except to pay tolls. i personally know at least 2 people that've gotten speeding tickets in the mail due to being timed between the tollbooths.
big brother is watching you....and me,.... :noid
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for your second job, you work at place that some may consider "unsavory"
so now, they happen to look at a history of where you've been, and see that you spend X amount of time at certain coordinates. they see what those coordinates are, and since it's "unsavory" in their eyes, you suddenly find yourself suspended from the pd, or fd, or whatever.
The range on passive RFID tags is around 30 feet. In order for the scenario you described to be a reality there would have to be readers all over the place to actually pinpoint your coordinates. The tags in licenses and passports are passive meaning that they are not powered. Powered ones have a longer range.
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By nope I meant I dont have a passport lol
Some of us knew that without asking. Your political positions are very geocentric.
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The range on passive RFID tags is around 30 feet. In order for the scenario you described to be a reality there would have to be readers all over the place to actually pinpoint your coordinates. The tags in licenses and passports are passive meaning that they are not powered. Powered ones have a longer range.
understood.
they're on their way to that too.
thousands of sensors installed along rt 95 between new jersey, and one of the carolinas. they trakc everything, from your tomtom or garmin gps units to the gps in your phone, onstar, sync, or anything that gives off signals. they say it's only ever gonna be used to better predict traffic conditions, and warn of snarls. ya really think it'll never see any other uses?
these are the fears i have for my brothers daughter. she's going to end up living in a world where it's considered normal for the "powers that be" know everything about everyone(except for the criminals of course) and know where you were, and are going.
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The range on passive RFID tags is around 30 feet. In order for the scenario you described to be a reality there would have to be readers all over the place to actually pinpoint your coordinates. The tags in licenses and passports are passive meaning that they are not powered. Powered ones have a longer range.
Don't count out the possibility that the govt, especially the Dept of State Security (oops I mean "homeland security") will come up with a secret bill that funds putting RFID readers on every street corner around high profile public areas. Look at the UK as an example... The UK has huge national budget problems, but they found enough money to put up *and monitor* thousands of cameras in cities and along highways in order to monitor the activities of a huge percentage of the nation's population. The justification is to help stop and solve crime, but the actual reality is that the cameras monitor all activities of everyone, not just criminals.
Expect to see this in the US, and fairly soon. They're working very hard on standards for ID cards and the primary barrier to these new standards are that the cost of switching to the new ID cards will be carried by the states that issue the cards. Even with that problem, a great number of states have indicated that they would immediately adopt federal ID card standards as soon as they are finalized, regardless of the cost and social ramifications. And as soon as the cards start being used, the monitoring stations will be set up even if it takes secret legislation as part of a national security funding bill.
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Don't count out the possibility that the govt, especially the Dept of State Security (oops I mean "homeland security") will come up with a secret bill that funds putting RFID readers on every street corner around high profile public areas. Look at the UK as an example... The UK has huge national budget problems, but they found enough money to put up *and monitor* thousands of cameras in cities and along highways in order to monitor the activities of a huge percentage of the nation's population. The justification is to help stop and solve crime, but the actual reality is that the cameras monitor all activities of everyone, not just criminals.
Expect to see this in the US, and fairly soon. They're working very hard on standards for ID cards and the primary barrier to these new standards are that the cost of switching to the new ID cards will be carried by the states that issue the cards. Even with that problem, a great number of states have indicated that they would immediately adopt federal ID card standards as soon as they are finalized, regardless of the cost and social ramifications. And as soon as the cards start being used, the monitoring stations will be set up even if it takes secret legislation as part of a national security funding bill.
that is what i was getting at when i mentioned the tracking sensors in rt95. it won't take much for them to put them everywhere if they manage to get the public to "Want" it......and for national security is the most perfect excuse, since 911
cue the conspiricy theorists :noid
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I don't think they even need to get the people to "want it". They'll just do it and when anyone finds out and complains, they'll claim national security and tell the people to STFU. Anyone who complains too loudly will be arrested without charges and locked up without trial, the same as if you cause a ruckus in an airport security line.
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I don't think they even need to get the people to "want it". They'll just do it and when anyone finds out and complains, they'll claim national security and tell the people to STFU. Anyone who complains too loudly will be arrested without charges and locked up without trial, the same as if you cause a ruckus in an airport security line.
yaknow.....you're most likely deadnuts on with that statement sir.
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Most of those people with a mobile phone surgically attached to their bodies also can be tracked pretty reliably as well. :noid
Not really. Check this unfortunate case out:
http://www.jconline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070321/NEWS0501/703210336/0/news0501
The kid's cell phone, far from navigating people to his location, left them a false clue that had them looking in the wrong place. This happened right in my neighborhood less than a mile from my house, I was within the search radius. The fact is they can tell which phone tower you were last using, but the service areas overlap and a cell phone doesn't necessarily connect to the closest phone tower. It cannot pinpoint a phone's location other than its in range somewhere of that tower.
In this kid's case, it led searchers to an area around that cell tower that wasn't where him and his cell phone were later found... they hadn't anticipated that the phone might not be connecting to the closest tower. It definitely wasn't giving them any kind of distance or direction from the tower either.
Conclusion: Cell phones can't track you like on TV... sorry Jack Bower.
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Not really. Check this unfortunate case out:
http://www.jconline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070321/NEWS0501/703210336/0/news0501
The kid's cell phone, far from navigating people to his location, left them a false clue that had them looking in the wrong place. This happened right in my neighborhood less than a mile from my house, I was within the search radius. The fact is they can tell which phone tower you were last using, but the service areas overlap and a cell phone doesn't necessarily connect to the closest phone tower. It cannot pinpoint a phone's location other than its in range somewhere of that tower.
In this kid's case, it led searchers to an area around that cell tower that wasn't where him and his cell phone were later found... they hadn't anticipated that the phone might not be connecting to the closest tower. It definitely wasn't giving them any kind of distance or direction from the tower either.
Conclusion: Cell phones can't track you like on TV... sorry Jack Bower.
You're correct, and incorrect.
older cell phones don't/can't.
any cellphone maed within i think the last 3 years, has a gps chip in it. as long as the battery isn't dead, they can be tracked, wether or not they're turned on.
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Not really. Check this unfortunate case out:
http://www.jconline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070321/NEWS0501/703210336/0/news0501
The kid's cell phone, far from navigating people to his location, left them a false clue that had them looking in the wrong place. This happened right in my neighborhood less than a mile from my house, I was within the search radius. The fact is they can tell which phone tower you were last using, but the service areas overlap and a cell phone doesn't necessarily connect to the closest phone tower. It cannot pinpoint a phone's location other than its in range somewhere of that tower.
In this kid's case, it led searchers to an area around that cell tower that wasn't where him and his cell phone were later found... they hadn't anticipated that the phone might not be connecting to the closest tower. It definitely wasn't giving them any kind of distance or direction from the tower either.
Conclusion: Cell phones can't track you like on TV... sorry Jack Bower.
i posted my lastg response before reading the article. it would appear that the erroneous cell phone signal was from its "bouncing" off of buildings, or traveling down wires.
this happens with ELT's all the time. i help train our cadtes to track ELT's, and simply by placing a practice unit in the doorway of a hangar, i can make a good 1 hour search as they get a bit confused by the changing signals.
here's my question though?
THE LAST PLACE HE WAS SEEN WAS AT OWEN HALL. SO WHY THE HELLL DID THEY SEARCH FRIGGIN EVERYWHERE ELSE EXCEPT THERE?? that should've been the VERY first place that they looked. go through that entire building with a fine tooth comb.
just another reason that searches should be left to those that're good at it, rather than the police. i'm not meaning to put down the police, but they're good at other things. CAP is good at search and rescue. i think i can safely say that we're probably the best in the country at it. it's a large majority of what we do.,
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From what I remember reading when this was big local news, they checked Owen Hall extensively, but when it came to that electrical room, a maintenance person just opened the inside door and looked around, not wanting to go in there and check thoroughly because of the shock danger. As it turned out the kid was hidden from view from the inside door, and as he was newly dead then, didn't smell yet. And that was the only check on that room until he was accidentally found later on. By the way, when they found him, his body was still conducting electricity :( .
You're right though, a trained searcher probably would have found him at the start of the whole deal; wouldn't have made him any less dead though. But his body might have been found in better shape which would have allowed toxicology to determine if he was drunk or not, which may have affected Purdue's liability one way or the other (especially given that he was under 21 and was seen at a party off-campus just before).
As for old cell phone vs. new, I have no idea, I just know in this case it failed to pinpoint his location, and in fact led them to the wrong place to do a detailed search. Given the prevailance of cell phones and the likelyhood of similar cases happening again, perhaps local law enforcement agencies should practice trying to find a cell phone planted somewhere as an exercise, to find out the limitations and accuracy, and so they aren't led on wild goose chases next time.
Certainly not suggesting adding the ability to track anyone anywhere to cell phones or ID cards though, that ability could and would be misused.
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From what I remember reading when this was big local news, they checked Owen Hall extensively, but when it came to that electrical room, a maintenance person just opened the inside door and looked around, not wanting to go in there and check thoroughly because of the shock danger. As it turned out the kid was hidden from view from the inside door, and as he was newly dead then, didn't smell yet. And that was the only check on that room until he was accidentally found later on. By the way, when they found him, his body was still conducting electricity :( .
wow......that sucks. that also answers part of how the cellphone may have given an erronous location. if it was on his body, the signal was most probably conducted through electical wires till it found a place to "leak" out.
You're right though, a trained searcher probably would have found him at the start of the whole deal; wouldn't have made him any less dead though. But his body might have been found in better shape which would have allowed toxicology to determine if he was drunk or not, which may have affected Purdue's liability one way or the other (especially given that he was under 21 and was seen at a party off-campus just before).yep. like i said, i'm not trying to brag, nor am i trying to put anyone else down. i feel confident beyond a doubt that everyone involved in that search did so to the very best of their abilities. the maintenance guy though.....he SHOULD have gone and gotten someone else if he was afraid of that room.
As for old cell phone vs. new, I have no idea, I just know in this case it failed to pinpoint his location, and in fact led them to the wrong place to do a detailed search. Given the prevailance of cell phones and the likelyhood of similar cases happening again, perhaps local law enforcement agencies should practice trying to find a cell phone planted somewhere as an exercise, to find out the limitations and accuracy, and so they aren't led on wild goose chases next time.like i said above, the signal could've traveled through wiring, or simply been bouncing around from building to building. you are right too, if they are going to do these searches themselves, they should be practicing.
we do it in CAP all the time. we have SAREX's at least once a month. more if we can.
Certainly not suggesting adding the ability to track anyone anywhere to cell phones or ID cards though, that ability could and would be misused.yes, it would be seriously misused, and in some places most probably already is.
all in all, this is the kind of reason we solicit our services around to the local, and state pd's, fema, homeland security, etc. we are very very good at these jobs. we have the best safety record of any single engine piston powered airfleet. most of all, we love what we do. it's not just a job to us.
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You carry passport everywhere you go?
Many new cars have RFID tags molded into the plastic of the key. It's there to identify the key to the car's computer which interrogates the tag. If it fails to get the correct code in return.... No start. I generally take my keys everywhere I go... ;)
By the way, if you carry around an iPhone, you have an RFID tag traveling with you.
My regards,
Widewing