Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bongaroo on September 19, 2008, 12:08:41 PM
-
Anyone else see this?
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5454035
The reporter really makes the police cheif look like a fool and face some questions that he was obviously unprepared to answer. This ranks right up there with the ninja police forces striking at night breaking down doors and complaining when they get shot at.
Sad stuff.
-
A quarter pound of pot and 6 pills was enough to claim it was a drug house. I've never touched drugs in my life, but that's absolutely ridiculous, to treat her like she was a big dealer.
-
I can't believe the way the police chief has handled it. What a bastard.
-
That's absolutely insane. Bong, I wonder how ole Sheriff Harrison down there in Wake Co. would handle it.
-
Hmm...Well this guy is the sheriff:
[url]http://rtpnet.org/~wcso/sheriff.html[url]
You could ask him if he'd put a 23 year old girl with no training into a bust situation that was to include a firearm and 10's of thousands of dollars in money and drugs. I'm pretty sure he'd say no.
-
You know the really screwed up part about this is, the only reason we even hear about it is because it's a young white female college student. If this was a minority or even a white male you would have never heard about it.
-
Well I don't know about that. I keep an eye on this website. Looks color-blind to me.
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.html
-
Well I don't know about that. I keep an eye on this website. Looks color-blind to me.
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.html
Yea I'm talking about on national media.
-
You know the really screwed up part about this is, the only reason we even hear about it is because it's a young white female college student. If this was a minority or even a white male you would have never heard about it.
Well, if it was a police officer that died in the drug bust, we'd hear about how heroic they were.
Maybe that's true, but the hero died for nothing. Not a single thing changed for the better, whatsoever, by their death. And the same goes for this poor girl.
But, hey, as long as we insist on repeatedly bashing our heads against a brick wall to try and get to the other side, we're going to have to deal with a few cracked skulls... What do people expect?
-
Go read these stories:
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.html
A few are of police officers who needlessly lost their lives in botched "no-knock" raids. None of those victims had to die. Our laws need to change. Here's a pretty good speech to read if you have the time:
http://www.theadvocates.org/library/casualties-of-war.html
-
Don't have drugs, don't have problems. Simple solution.
-
Not really. You'll never eliminate them.
-
...That was meant as in you personally don't have them, or anyone in your household for that matter. I could tell you stories from the Caribbean about drug busts but you might go into hysterics.
-
The only way to eliminate drug abuse is to simply kill everyone found with illegal drugs in their possession, right there on the spot. Where is Judge Dredd when we need him?
I think this is one of the few cases where the middle-ground approach simply won't work. People are effing stupid when it comes to drug use, and the approach being used just doesn't account for the fact that you can't take a middle-ground approach. And simply executing everyone found with drugs is probably not going to be an acceptable solution, so maybe the other approach ought to be tried.
The middle ground "war on drugs" approach has utterly failed, in my opinion. And along the way, it's created a massive global economy and put an awful lot of money in the hands of some really bad people. Make it legal, and tax the hell out of it. That way the US govt gets the money, not the drug growers, smugglers, distributors, or dealers. Take some of that drug tax money and use it for community-based rehab centers so when people (who are effing stupid, remember?) who take drugs inevitably decide it was a dumb thing to do or don't try to quit before it ruins their health and lives, they have a place to turn for help and rehabilitation.
Legalize and tax. Even heavily taxed, the stuff will still be fairly cheap and easy to get. That also means reduced crime from junkies looking for enough cash for their next hit. I don't care how badly a junkie ruins his health, as long as he doesn't rob my house to get cash for his next hit.
-
The girl's parents should have talked with the Police and told them, you know what happens to informants. If my daughter has to go to jail that's the way it is, but you are not going to jeopardize my daughter's life under any circumstances.
Les
-
Legalize and tax. Even heavily taxed, the stuff will still be fairly cheap and easy to get. That also means reduced crime from junkies looking for enough cash for their next hit. I don't care how badly a junkie ruins his health, as long as he doesn't rob my house to get cash for his next hit.
Do you think weed smokers are junkies? It's that kind of thinking that got that girl killed.
-
...That was meant as in you personally don't have them, or anyone in your household for that matter. I could tell you stories from the Caribbean about drug busts but you might go into hysterics.
Most of the stories in the above provided link are about people who have died due to the war on drugs that never were even accused of having drugs.
The ones who did were killed over trivial amounts.
The "War on Drugs" is a failure on all counts and a waste of taxpayer money. It has not curbed drug use, it has not stopped the black markets that formed to distribute illegal substances; but it has put money into the hands of dangerous people, hurt innocents, and packed our jails full of people that you and i now foot the bill for.
And Les, the girl was 23. Her parents had no say in the matter.
-
They sure as hell did have a say. They should have said it. It's not like they didn't know about it.
Les
-
Legally, they had no say.
-
Do you think weed smokers are junkies? It's that kind of thinking that got that girl killed.
Most of the weed smokers I knew growing up were junkies. They routinely smoked weed, and it had numerous short and long term negative effects. Their immediate judgment was impaired although just like alcoholics they thought themselves "just fine" when stoned and would drive vehicles or go to work while under the effects of drugs, and over the long run I saw their speech become increasingly slurred and their apparent intelligence dropped to the point where they became completely uninteresting as friends because it was impossible to have a discussion with them that didn't degenerate into how their last stoner experience was cool and where they were going to light up next.
So yea, I do consider weed smokers to be junkies, and those weed smokers who deny it are little different from alcoholics who deny they have a problem. Do I give a damn either way? No, until they impact the lives of others. An alcoholic who doesn't drive drunk or create safety hazards is no concern to me. But the second he hits the road, he is a hazard to be aggressively deterred. The same goes for a weed smoker... A pot user who does not negatively interact with others is of no concern to me, but as soon as his behavior (whether it's stealing money for his next toke or driving while stoned) impacts others, they become a target of aggressive deterrence.
Like I said, legalize it and tax the hell out of it. And have zero tolerance for driving under the influence of any substance that increases the chance of an accident, not just alcohol.
-
::sluuuuuuurrred speech::yeah, one time we all got baked and ate a whole pumpkin pie, it was dank.
:rofl
-
Stealing money for there next toke.....lol That must have been some really good weed. :aok
Read my lips " No New Taxes!"
-
This is the kinda thing that has driven me against the war on drugs.
Its one thing for me to grab an ice cold gangster and turn him, which I have, and its another to take a college kid like that and put them in a hazardous situation they really know nothing about. To put that kid on the road, after putting the arm on her, is stupid and reckless. A gangster knows the world we are throwing him back into and more then likely has been a stone cold criminal all his life. This kid was just a college kid who like to roll a doob with friends and listen to music.
But we put guys in these units and the powers that be put pressure on them to come up with numbers to justify them being in there with their take home cars. Thats the problem with the war on drugs just like every freaking thing else in Law Enforcement. They have turned the entire show into a numbers game. A supervisor can turn on a computer, look at my pie chart for the month, and say "you jerkoff you ain't done much". To which Ill reply, "yeah and next month Ill do less cause I dont care about your numbers game and I have enough time to be in the KMA club". "So bugger off".
But these Narco units? And special units? They got to come up with numbers, and with weight, and with guns. Without them they are right back in the beat cars they fought and Politicked to get out of. The entire system breeds and encourages this type of stupidity.
And this poor kid got caught in the middle of it all. I'm sorry for her and her family. I never would have put her out there.
-
A quarter pound of pot and 6 pills was enough to claim it was a drug house. I've never touched drugs in my life, but that's absolutely ridiculous, to treat her like she was a big dealer.
Just to put it in perspective, 1/4lbs of decent pot is enough for 224-448 people to get very stoned. That amount is very much the quantity a midlevel drug dealer would have on hand - it's bulk - not an amount you'd typically see some hippy type having on-hand to sell to friends. It certainly wasn't a small personal "stash" to be used that night.
Now did the police mis-use her and bungle the sting? Probably yes, but she wasn't the little angel they're portraying her as. I have little sympathy for her - she got herself deep into it by breaking the law repeatedly - and she turned on her own kind to become a snitch (no honor among thieves).
-
Well I'm for legalizing pot and some of the other more "party" type drugs. However I will admit I haven't seen many stoners who were highly successful other than say musicians.
Luckily for myself, when I was a teenager, there were two older dudes on my block that smoked waaaay too much pot. You know the type, the ones that it actually did affect their mental capacity. That was enough of a lesson for me not to touch the stuff and I can say I've never touched any drugs other than alcohol.
I only support legalizing it because it's a unwinnable war and it's dumb to fight something that can't be beat. It would be better to use the resources for other things. However we have to admit drugs are big business in this country.
States and the Feds get massive budgets for the drug war, which means contractors sell them lots of cool toys. Most of the prison system is owned by private corporations these days and they get big money filling up their jails with prisoners locked up for petty drug crimes. Once again the only people that get screwed are the tax payers.
It's all a big revolving system built to milk tax dollars out of the peasants, while claiming it's all done to protect them.
-
Just to put it in perspective, 1/4lbs of decent pot is enough for 224-448 people to get very stoned. That amount is very much the quantity a midlevel drug dealer would have on hand - it's bulk - not an amount you'd typically see some hippy type having on-hand to sell to friends. It certainly wasn't a small personal "stash" to be used that night.
Pot works like everything else... You buy in bulk, you save money. A 1/4 lb is at the high-end of something a typical person might purchase to split with friends, but certainly not unreasonable... And definitely not something a mid-level dealer would have on hand.
Assuming she regularly sold and this wasn't a once in a while or one-time thing for a vacation or something (which could explain the 6 ecstacy pills), we're talking about a girl who probably serviced 5-6 groups of friends in a town. Hardly mid-level at all, at least as I see it.
But yes, you are right, it wasn't a small stash and certainly not all for personal use (unless she really, really liked stale pot).
-
Let's also not forget who killed her. It wasn't the police, it was these Fine Young Men:
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee246/fpjames/thugs.jpg)
-
Most of the weed smokers I knew growing up were junkies.
Well I'm for legalizing pot and some of the other more "party" type drugs. However I will admit I haven't seen many stoners who were highly successful other than say musicians.
Most of the ones I know are lawyers, doctors, dentists, restaurant owners, an assortment of highly regarded sales people, more IT folk than you can shake a stick at, entrepreneurs of various sorts, corporate middle management, various real estate types and a smattering of varied professions both conventional, professional and otherwise. I knew some losers who were pot heads, but I kinda get the impression they would have been losers regardless. Perhaps the whole correlation does not equal causation thing.
Just to put it in perspective, 1/4lbs of decent pot is enough for 224-448 people to get very stoned. That amount is very much the quantity a midlevel drug dealer would have on hand - it's bulk - not an amount you'd typically see some hippy type having on-hand to sell to friends. It certainly wasn't a small personal "stash" to be used that night.
Just to put in perspective, that is enough to supply 12-14 friendly clients with a month's worth of personal stash while paying for your own. Depending upon the volume discount (which for 1/4 lb would be minimal) the profit margin would likely be on the order of $250-$500 - not counting personal use, in a suburban market for high end product. If she sold grams at shows, etc. it could be somewhat more, but not nearly enough to live a modest life off of exclusively. What is missing though is how often she went through a 1/4 lb. But, logically, if she had much more traffic than what I outlined the quantity on hand would likely be more. I don't think any reasonable person would classify 1/4 lb as mid level, unless they went through 3-4 of those a week.
And no, I was not a dealer in a past life. But, I did stay in a Holiday Inn once :) And, I actually have a lot of successful, well educated hipster friends who like to have a smoke or two after they end their day.
Charon
-
Let's also not forget who killed her. It wasn't the police, it was these Fine Young Men:
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee246/fpjames/thugs.jpg)
Directly, sure.
The police didn't hold the sword, but the pen had a say in this death too.
The police are not innocent in this War on Drugs. Indirectly they help kill many people and help ruin many lives. Let's not pretend their methods aren't a part of the equation.
Of course, most of them are good people just trying to make a living, and I can't expect them to fall on their swords and refuse to enforce drug laws, at the cost of seeing their families go cold this winter and hungry this evening. I know I wouldn't.
-
Most of the ones I know are lawyers, doctors, dentists, restaurant owners, an assortment of highly regarded sales people, more IT folk than you can shake a stick at, entrepreneurs of various sorts, corporate middle management, various real estate types and a smattering of varied professions both conventional, professional and otherwise. I knew some losers who were pot heads, but I kinda get the impression they would have been losers regardless. Perhaps the whole correlation does not equal causation thing.
Yep. One might not be put in a position to know this, until they've shown they're people who can know this, though. Some of you who think the majority of pot users you've met are do-nothing losers would probably would be suprised at just how many of your friends that you think are clean currently smoke it, at least on occassion.
Just to put in perspective, that is enough to supply 12-14 friendly clients with a month's worth of personal stash while paying for your own. Depending upon the volume discount (which for 1/4 lb would be minimal) the profit margin would likely be on the order of $250-$500 - not counting personal use, in a suburban market for high end product. If she sold grams at shows, etc. it could be somewhat more, but not nearly enough to live a modest life off of exclusively. What is missing though is how often she went through a 1/4 lb. But, logically, if she had much more traffic than what I outlined the quantity on hand would likely be more. I don't think any reasonable person would classify 1/4 lb as mid level, unless they went through 3-4 of those a week.
Yeah, the whole thing just doesn't add up to her being a big dealer, at all.
The amount of pot, fact that a precise quantity was seized rather than "a little over" or "a little less than a 1/4lb," her education level, parents' demeanor, friend's testimony, inexperience that would help lead to her death, etc., all make me think she was just a local low-level connection helping out a few groups of friends. I'm not even sold that the 1/4lb was a regular thing... I don't recall from the film, but I'm assuming if she died in May she was also arrested in May or April... 4/20, graduation, spring break... Lots of reasons the demand would suddenly go up and a person used to dealing smaller amounts would invest in a larger stash for a once a year binge.
-
Well, if she had simply stayed clean after the first bust she wouldn't have been put into that situation. Just goes to show how bad drugs can screw up your life AND your families life.
-
Well, if she had simply stayed clean after the first bust she wouldn't have been put into that situation. Just goes to show how bad drugs can screw up your life AND your families life.
Just another example of gargantuan waste in lives and money.. largest prison population in the US.. billions and billions spent.. millions of people that would otherwise contributing more to society by paying into it instead of being incarcerated by it or hunted by it...
that sack a weed prolly cost us a million.
-
Well, if she had simply stayed clean after the first bust she wouldn't have been put into that situation.
And if our lawmakers took their heads out of their asses, she wouldn't have been put into that situation, either.
"It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something. "
- Franklin D. Roosevelt
Regardless of what you think of him, this was good advice. It's about time we heed it.
-
that sack a weed prolly cost us a million.
The Judge Dredd approach sounds fairly cost effective...
-
I'd rather have the tax dollars from 50 billion a years worth of weed and prostitution going to funding ammo for Judge Dred's upcoming first annual illegal immigrant hunt.
-
The way the Police approached this matter demonstrates how little they know. I could understand leaning on an actual criminal. A criminal would have gone to jail if he knew what was good for him in that situation. A 23 year old college student is an entirely different matter, and it's high time the Police start thinking about public relations, because frankly, that police chief came off as an a s s h o l e.
I would be all in favor for every Police officer to have a college degree and maybe go so far as to have them elected instead of appointed.
They are representatives of the state and how they treat you is how the state treats you.
Les
-
And if our lawmakers took their heads out of their asses, she wouldn't have been put into that situation, either.
Regardless of what you think of him, this was good advice. It's about time we heed it.
The cops were wrong doing what they did. They should have used an undercover cop to do that sting and sent the girl off to prison for dealing.
I have no sympathy for drug dealers or users.
-
I have no sympathy for drug dealers or users.
Why not?
-
Because they are knowingly breaking the law for their own personal gain, pleasure or both. You pay to play.
-
Because they are knowingly breaking the law for their own personal gain, pleasure or both. You pay to play.
This is enough of a reason to have no sympathy for them as human beings? To give up on them? To lump another few strikes against them, and extra mountains to climb?
I love how some people write drug users off as wastes/hopeless/whatever. Although some aren't ever going to be rehabilitated, I would think a person who was actually able to overcome something like a bad drug addiction would display the sort of drive and tenacity most would say embodies the ideal American. I'd think they're the sort of Americans worth giving a helping hand to... The sort of people who might be worth investing in, if only by using tax dollars to send them to a place like a rehab where they can learn new ways to combat their problem, and not to a prison where they develop an even larger network of users and dealers to exacerbate it.
You're paying for them one way or another. Send them to a good rehab, and you might actually get some return.
-
The drug war is silly. All that happens is you put a lot of people in jail and put a lot of money into a huge black-market. Ever since men have walked the earth, someone has gone out to get high, you cant and won't stop it. You can deal with it in a dysfunctional, delusional maner and create more problems.
One would think after "Prohibition" well,,,, in any case, 60 years or more into a "drug war" the same policys fail year after year, wow, talk about beating a dead horse.
zuii
-
Just to put in perspective, that is enough to supply 12-14 friendly clients with a month's worth of personal stash while paying for your own. Depending upon the volume discount
Charon, you should be a weed-defense lawyer :D
But seriously, no matter how it's rationalized, it's a lot of weed - and a 1/4 pound is no baggie - it's a BRICK.
It's mid level dealer tonnage... ie: a dealer that sells to OTHER dealers and never sees end users.
Most street dealers buy (more accurately get "fronted") an ounce at a time - and most end users buy a GRAM at a time (1/28th of an oz). A gram will get you plenty baked for an evening. Most drug users do not buy a month's supply at a time. Hell most don't look past the next 20 mins.
ie: she had enough stuff on her to make 400+ people go to Dairy Queen asking for triple cheeseburgers with sprinkle-butterfinger-blizzards.
So I have my doubts... if she was so smalltime and innocent, how did she even show up on anyone's radar (not once, but twice)? And why was she used on such a high profile/dangerous sting ?
The story that she was some innocent kid strung-along by the police doesn't add up in my mind - of course, I don't know the facts either - all I have to go on is that link... I'd like to know more is what I'm saying.
-
Just to put it in perspective, 1/4lbs of decent pot is enough for 224-448 people to get very stoned.
A quap isn't that much actually.
-
A quap isn't that much actually.
It's 4oz, or 112gm (standard unit of dealing).
1gm of good stuff can easily get 4 people (Jamaican's excepted) stoned out of their minds - 8 if it's Canadian Hydro.
I will agree however that 6 pills of ex and a few Valiums is nothing.
-
Bong: The War on drugs is a bunch of crap of allright, which this country apparently didn't need for most of its long existence for most people to stay clear-headed and for society to rock along.
But considering all the left-side-of-aisle restrictions on the "one true Freedom", i.e, the right to do whatever you want with yerself and yer own stuff, you'd favor, where do you get off calling foul just because its a pothead thats getting the jack-boot thuggery treatment today?
Anyone else see this?
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5454035
The reporter really makes the police cheif look like a fool and face some questions that he was obviously unprepared to answer. This ranks right up there with the ninja police forces striking at night breaking down doors and complaining when they get shot at.
Sad stuff.
-
Just another example of gargantuan waste in lives and money.. largest prison population in the US.. billions and billions spent.. millions of people that would otherwise contributing more to society by paying into it instead of being incarcerated by it or hunted by it...
that sack a weed prolly cost us a million.
The average death penalty case cost the state $2.3 million. I think I read somewhere in regards to private owned prison meaning owned by a corporation each prisoner is worth about $60k to $80k a year. Meaning that's how much these companies get paid by the state for every prisoner.
This is the reason it's so silly for people to use the socialism excuse when you bring up drug treatment rehabilitation vs out right imprisonment.
According to this page this is the average sentence for drug trafficking and possession.. ( I have no clue if this is accurate but it's likely close)
http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2354/Drugs-Justice-System-CONVICTION-SENTENCING-TRENDS.html
Possession: average felony conviction 35 years actual average time served 14 years equals $840k if you assume the state pays $60k/yr
Trafficking: average felony conviction 55 years actual average time served 24 years equals $1.4 million if you assume the state pays $60k/yr
The average cost of drug treatment is from $3.5k to 7.5k by a study in 2002.
"The report, "Alcohol and Drug Services Study Cost Study," finds that residential treatment for alcohol or drug abuse cost $3,840 per admission and outpatient methadone treatment cost $7,415 per admission in 2002."
source
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pro/a/blsam040527.htm
Giving non viloent addicts treatment is a far better choice and much cheaper for the tax payer than sending them to jail. Even if you had to send the same addict through treatment 10 or 15 times it would still be cheaper for the tax payer than sending him to prision.
With that said of course treatment is useless if the user doesn't want to quit. So it's obviously not a fix all but I'd bet you could at the very least cut the prision drug offender population in half by giving them treatment rather than just locking them away.
Whats worse is the prisoners often come out of the system worse than they went in and on avearge they end up right back in jail again for the same crime or often times a worse crime.
-
Actually, I don't know what most lefties want, but I follow the "if it doesn't hurt me or mine, it doesn't bother me" mantra.
-
It's 4oz, or 112gm (standard unit of dealing).
1gm of good stuff can easily get 4 people (Jamaican's excepted) stoned out of their minds - 8 if it's Canadian Hydro.
I will agree however that 6 pills of ex and a few Valiums is nothing.
4oz bought at a decent price and selling 3 1/2 would get you a free 1/2 oz. A quap is nothing dude.
-
Actually, I don't know what most lefties want, but I follow the "if it doesn't hurt me or mine, it doesn't bother me" mantra.
By that mantra, welcome to the libertarian side.
Well, as long as you don't have some Leftist "BnZ shouldn't be able to own a .50 caliber machine gun because he might go crazy and shoot through my car's engine block just for spite" hangup. Which is of course identical in logic to the "Bongaroo can't have a joint because he might get the "reefer madness" and go on a killing spree with a giant novelty spork..." hangup of the Right, then :salute
-
4oz bought at a decent price and selling 3 1/2 would get you a free 1/2 oz. A quap is nothing dude.
Out of genuine curiosity, what does a gram of weed go for nowadays ?
Last time I paid attention, they were going for $10 in 1984.
-
The drug war is silly. All that happens is you put a lot of people in jail and put a lot of money into a huge black-market. Ever since men have walked the earth, someone has gone out to get high, you cant and won't stop it. You can deal with it in a dysfunctional, delusional maner and create more problems.
One would think after "Prohibition" well,,,, in any case, 60 years or more into a "drug war" the same policys fail year after year, wow, talk about beating a dead horse.
zuii
I used to think it was more about the govt not wanting to admit they couldn't win. However then I started following the money trail. The black market drugs create is nothing compared to the money pumped into the drug war by the US govt.
The drug war is responsible for creating 100's of thousands of jobs in everything from Military, to the Coast Guard down to the street Cop walking the beat. Then you have the entire prison system that is commercialized providing who knows how many jobs. Hell even the private contractors like Black Water are now getting in on the deal. They are now working in South America on anti drug operations with US special forces and the CIA.
Then if you get into the military/police equipment area think of all the helicopters guns, police cars and special equipment. The list could be endless on how much money the US drug war is worth, it's likely worth hundreds of billions to the US economy every year. The short and skinny is the govt doesn't have any plans on winning it, it's just worth too much money for the economy.
As Dwight Eisenhower warned us about the industrial military complex.. Well it's true, because the Drug war is prime example of it. The War on drugs is such a big part of the US economy that we can't end the war.
edit.. hell I didn't even mention the whole Judaical side of things. Think of all the lawyers, judges, court staff ect..ect that are needed because of all the excessive drug cases that fill our courts.
In short it seems Superman needs Lex Luther just as much as Batman needs the Joker..
-
un freaking believable.
The ludicrous ravings of the democrat mind.
-
un freaking believable.
The ludicrous ravings of the democrat mind.
Na whats amazing is that people like you can't see the forrest for the trees.
-
un freaking believable.
The ludicrous ravings of the democrat mind.
Do you have an actual argument that makes sense? And since when am I a democrat?
How about we do a little excercise. Let's pretend there is no 2nd Amendment and people are trying to get rid of all the guns in the United States. What are some reasons it shouldn't be done and won't work? Put them in a list.
Something tells me there'll be a number of reasons on that list that apply just the same for drugs...
-
Charon, you should be a weed-defense lawyer :D
But seriously, no matter how it's rationalized, it's a lot of weed - and a 1/4 pound is no baggie - it's a BRICK.
Really, it isn't that much. Wouldn't raise my eyebrows in the slightest.
It's mid level dealer tonnage... ie: a dealer that sells to OTHER dealers and never sees end users.
At least in my area, that's not true... But I think from the rest of your post, I see why you're thinking that...
Most street dealers buy (more accurately get "fronted") an ounce at a time - and most end users buy a GRAM at a time (1/28th of an oz). A gram will get you plenty baked for an evening. Most drug users do not buy a month's supply at a time. Hell most don't look past the next 20 mins.
See, this strikes me as more of a city/poorer economic area blackmarket than what exists in more suburban/wealthy areas. The eighth is the more commonly purchased amount around here. If someone's buying a gram, they're getting ripped off and they know it. You want to team up with friends to buy in bulk to save money.
Now in the cities, of course, you can still find guys selling Nicks and Dimes.
ie: she had enough stuff on her to make 400+ people go to Dairy Queen asking for triple cheeseburgers with sprinkle-butterfinger-blizzards.
Another way of putting it is 400+ people can get stoned on ONE day, ONCE. Which puts it in a much less impressive perspective.
So I have my doubts... if she was so smalltime and innocent, how did she even show up on anyone's radar (not once, but twice)? And why was she used on such a high profile/dangerous sting ?
I was distracted while watching, but wasn't she arrested the first time after her car was pulled over? And then the second time on an anonymous tip? Well, college kids drive like jerks, and this girl was attractive. It's not too difficult to imagine that she po'd another girl over a boy. Women can be very vindictive.
As for why she was used on such a high profile/dangerous sting... Well, the Chief made it pretty clear that he's not the brightest bulb.
-
Let's also not forget who killed her. It wasn't the police, it was these Fine Young Men:
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee246/fpjames/thugs.jpg)
Nope it was the Police that were also responsable. Where I come from 1/4 lb of weed is nothing. "MidLevel" = about 10 to 50 lbs. You'd get laughed at coming in with a pinch for 4 lids of weed.
And even if you werent laughed at any of our guys who never put the arm on some kid like that and put them out for a controlled buy with a couple of gangstas. Let alone throw a gun in with it. Nope! This is an extreme case of Police stupidity and I'll bet at the root of it all is some worthless narc unit that cant make a real case to save its life.
-
It's mid level dealer tonnage... ie: a dealer that sells to OTHER dealers and never sees end users.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
IF, IF.....she was dealing. It darn sure wasn't to other dealers. Not with only 4 ounces of weed.
Heck, in my day, I knew more than one person that would buy a pound at a time for their own personal use. They just popped the stuff in the freezer and took out small quantities at a time. I knew a lot more people that would buy 1/4 lbs at a time and then split it with friends or pop the stuff in the freezer and take out small quantities at a time.....
-
Most street dealers buy (more accurately get "fronted") an ounce at a time - and most end users buy a GRAM at a time (1/28th of an oz). A gram will get you plenty baked for an evening. Most drug users do not buy a month's supply at a time. Hell most don't look past the next 20 mins
:rofl
I never, ever, saw a dealer that was willing to break down weed into gram baggies. In fact, the vast majority of dealers don't want to deal with anything LESS than a quarter ounce.
Your statement might apply to cocaine or other drugs but it certainly doesn't apply to weed.
-
As with so many dialogs on this board (as with most I presume) the most ardent opinions are voiced by those with little or no knowledge of which they speak.
Assuming the story contains enough facts to pass the network's due diligence filter, it's pretty apparent the officials involved are guilty of negligent homicide IMO. Some may feel that characterization is a bit draconian but that's another topic. But my first question when these things happen is "What's being done about it?"
I gotta believe the real motivation behind this travesty was money. I might even accept that there were a few individuals who had misgivings about the whole affair but for whatever reason didn't or couldn't alter what went down. Probably because of money.
It all boils down to accountability. But then again most official misconduct does. For some reason we rarely maintain our collective outrage long enough to see the culprits behind a massive debacle pay the price. Nor do we take the time to do the math and ascertain where the real problems lie. This goes for the current credit meltdown as well as most of the crisis' we tangle with regularly. If we demand satisfaction, we're commonly mollified with a sacrificial lamb or two.
As much as we beat up on the Tallahassee CP. It's doubtful he was even aware of the sting until it went to heck. It's also doubtful he was completely forthcoming in his defense of the operation. I imagine he's p.o.'d as all get out but probably for all of the wrong reasons.
I just want to see what they do about it. It will happen again. We had one earlier this year involving some feds in a south suburb where the c.i. was killed. I haven't heard any details about what went wrong there. Wonder why.
-
:rofl
I never, ever, saw a dealer that was willing to break down weed into gram baggies. In fact, the vast majority of dealers don't want to deal with anything LESS than a quarter ounce.
Your statement might apply to cocaine or other drugs but it certainly doesn't apply to weed.
Like i said: last time I paid attention to that scene was in the early 80s... I find those amounts staggering... back then 1gm was "personal" - anything more and you were looking at serious dealing charges...
It's like saying "Gee, I think I'll tie-one-on tonight", and going to the store & buying a keg of beer.
Like assume a cop pulls over a 16year old kid and finds a full keg of beer in the backseat - you really think the kid will be able to convince the cop that he wasn't going to sell beer at a keg party ? "It's personal use only officer - honest".
Back in the day most people who smoked only dabbled in it on weekends - you guys make it sound like today's standard is to get high every waking hour of every single day 24/7. If that's not an addictive drug, I don't know what is.
I'm not doubting what some of you are saying (esp Rich) in terms of today's perspective, just that I find it extremely disturbing... I guess we really did lose the war on drugs, and that explains why there's so much crime today.
Well, you guys have made me bitter and I'm off to the Dallas Market Hall gun show today (woo!) :salute
-
un freaking believable.
The ludicrous ravings of the democrat mind.
You are wrong and you know it, otherwise your post would contain some kind of thought behind it other than a personal attack.
Men have been getting high since day one.
This "drug war" thing has failed over and over and over and over, it will never work. never has, never will.
Since Prohibition worked soooo well,,,, hmm some people will never learn.
tra lala
zuii
-
I already told you the "real motivation". And "money" ain't even close.
Chief walks into Narc LTs office, "why are your numbers down"? LT goes, "Ahhh, ahhh, ahhhh". Chief goes, "shaddup I dont want to hear it". "Start making some quality investigations or I'll find someone else to take your take home car home with them.
LT applies manure downhill to the troops, "you lazy mutts aint getting us pinches, seizures, or quality convictions". Get me some or your all be back on the midnight beat car.
College kid gets grabbed with 4 lids, of which she planned to to sell 3 to friends to pay for her own, "probably narced on by some other mid level :lol informant". Narcs scare crap out of kid, put her on the street to make controlled buy to dangerous felons. Gun is thrown in to get the extra charge, to get more wood on gangstas, so the narcs can eat their way higher up the chain. A gun charge or two thrown in will get a previously convicted felon at least a fiver. Add all that to the trafficking charges and you got real wood on the gangstas. Might make them talk.
And so the kid got thrown out there...................
When I look at this Chiefs face I see guilt and misery written all over it. He knows they were wrong. He knows this was no mid level dealer. He might even have a daughter the same age as his dead informant. And he knows this numbers thing has ruined Law Enforcement. We all do.
I dont believe in second guessing other coppers but someone has to answer for this. Without question someone is going to have to pay for it. You have to weigh everything on this job. Everything and every move. And the possible gain from this buy just wasn't worth cutting the corners and putting this kids life in jeopardy. It just wasnt worth it.
-
Do you have an actual argument that makes sense? And since when am I a democrat?
How about we do a little excercise. Let's pretend there is no 2nd Amendment and people are trying to get rid of all the guns in the United States. What are some reasons it shouldn't be done and won't work? Put them in a list.
Something tells me there'll be a number of reasons on that list that apply just the same for drugs...
I dunno.. are yah a democrat? Since when did you put on a crockett suit?
-
You are wrong and you know it, otherwise your post would contain some kind of thought behind it other than a personal attack.
Men have been getting high since day one.
This "drug war" thing has failed over and over and over and over, it will never work. never has, never will.
Since Prohibition worked soooo well,,,, hmm some people will never learn.
tra lala
zuii
You jumping the right guy here? I left that missive for crocket.. about 3 am in the morning. It was the knee jerk reaction to corketts wall of text justifying the war on drugs as necessary because it keeps the government employed.
Hence the 'lunatic ravings of a democrat mind'.
-
You jumping the right guy here? I left that missive for crocket.. about 3 am in the morning. It was the knee jerk reaction to corketts wall of text justifying the war on drugs as necessary because it keeps the government employed.
Hence the 'lunatic ravings of a democrat mind'.
Hmm, then my apology to you sir, my ADHD seems to have kicked in.
<slaps self on the side of me head>
zuii
-
's ok.. been there, done that, wiped my bum with the t-shirt. ;)
-
"I already told you the "real motivation". And "money" ain't even close."
While I'd agree the threat of losing a personal ride is enough to cause far too many leo's to endanger the public the fact is that the only segment of criminal behavior that can turn a profit reliably (for local law enforcement agencies) is the drug trade.
Since the War on Drugs began financial incentives have become a major part of most local agencies budgets. The only way to justify dollars is to make cases. If there's a single reason for the extreme degree of irresponsible conduct exhibited in the most notorious cases, it's money.
Tallahassee's not exactly virgin ground for the drug trade. It can't be the first time they did something like this. Maybe they've been lucky so far and just got lazy. But it's obvious they dropped the ball and it wasn't just one guy's fault.
If it's your take that this is the direct result some butt chewing session, I'd bet that there was a budget meeting that precipitated it.
I just can't understand how they thought this amateur was going to pull off a $13k buy. To the sellers it had to look like a setup.