Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Chalenge on September 23, 2008, 02:41:24 AM
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I decided to make the move to a SSD which is supposed to cut boot times to one-third of what I have now and is also supposed to give Vista its legs. I will also buy a dual layer blu-ray burner and I hope to maintain an image of the operating system on that. Hopefully that will make it easier to recreat an installation if needed.
To avoid downtime I will go ahead and get a complete system to go along with it. Corsair does not list the motherboard I chose so I have to go with different RAM I guess.
Asus P5Q
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 Yorkfield 3.2GHz 12MB
G.SKILL 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Quad Kit
RiDATA NSSD-S25-64-C04MPN 2.5" 64GB SATA II 3.0Gb Internal Solid state disk
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST3500320NS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB (x2)
HT OMEGA CLARO Plus+ 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz
LG Black 6X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 6X Blu-ray DVD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner
DIAMOND 4870X2PE52G Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit
KINGWIN Mach 1 ABT-1220MA1S 1220W ATX / BTX CrossFire
Antec P182
Thermaltake CL-P0257 Blue orb
Hanns·G HG-281DPB Black 28" 3ms Widescreen LCD HDMI (x3)
Matrox Triplehead 2 Go (digital)
MS Windows Vista X64
APC Back-UPS XS 1200
If anyone sees any obvious conflicts or something I missed please point it out. I push 'Place Order' on Friday. :D
This is going to HURT! but I can blame HTC for finally giving widescreen support (even though I wished for it long ago). :aok
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Vista64 and SSD would better be left unchecked on that setup. Now THOSE are going to hurt - SSD mainly your wallet with slight performance increase and Vista64 in every possible way.
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Chalenge,
Can I borrow some money? :devil
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That's pretty frakin' sweet.
Perhaps you could Raid-5 your non-SSD hard drives? Its probably supported by the motherboard. Also double check how reliable maxing out the ram will be on that motherboard, or if they'll have to run at a slower speed... as I recall 4 Gigers aren't cheap and you're getting 4 of them... better make sure it'll run it ok first. Oh and last time I checked the Smart-UPS were better than all the consumer grade UPSs from APC... I'd get a 1000 or maybe 1500 XL with that.
That's all I've got.
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I can vouch for the Smart-UPS models. I've owned 4 (3 x 1400's and 1 x 1000) and I've never had a problem with them. Their components are a higher grade, but come at a higher cost. Of course I acquired all mine for free and just had to replace the batteries. I gave 3 of those APC units away and currently have 1 1400 and 2 smaller Belkin units.
The smart UPS also will 'filter' the power coming into it. It's a nice feature and gives me a little more comfort.
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MrRipley my choice for Vista Ultimate x64 is motivated by my desire to run 64 bit programs to make use of the larger memory addressing it offers. At this point in time XP x64 would be the wrong choice as the software vendors I do business with are in some cases creating drivers for Vista and not XP (64 bit). If Windows 7 comes in a 64 bit flavor I will probably move to it later (after the first service pack release). I dont even want to deal with learning Linux!
SSDs are pricey but you have to pay for performance increases small or large its still a performance increase.
Boiler I think RAID-5 is somethin I will try. I may even get four drives. I already decided to throw in some HD coolers (the heat pipe type).
SYBA CL-IB-35HD 3.5" Hard Disk Cooler with 4 Heat Pipes
I use one now and it works very well.
Fulmar/Boiler I could not tell from your posts but it looks like you mean an APC UPS when you say Smart-UPS? How about this one?
APC Smart-UPS XL SUM1500RMXL2U 1440 VA 1425 Watts
Yes the MB can be made stable with all DIMM slots used. The trick to getting Vista installed without blue screens is to use only a single module of RAM until you get SP1 installed. Im not using anything Nvidia or Creative so hopefully I will avoid all the other issues. I could run much faster RAM I think but I cant seem to find a 16 Gig kit any faster then 800?
Thanks for all your comments guys and anything else you may add!
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I see you're planning on a 64 GB SSD but then conventional RAID for HD storage....
Well, why not an SSD RAID?
Seems to me boot time is nice, but if your programs are all on HDDs then it negates the benefit of faster read and load times off of the SSD.
How about a RAID of 5x 64GBs? Load most of your read-needy programs on that RAID drive and then the others on the HDDs.
For example, Aces High could be on the SSD RAID... :aok
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Thats a good idea Krusty! :aok
I would like to know though I mean after Skuzzy said something about repeated write limitations I was thinking I should limit how much is going into the SSD and now a RAID sounds like constant input/output? I want to build something that goes together once and that I can use for a couple of years. My last system is only three months old now! :lol :huh
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RAID is the same amount of read/write as any single drive, because they're all doing the same writing. If anything, it's got less reading in striped format. Every disk would read a different part of the same file, instead of 1 disk reading the entire file.
I think in the long run the read/write is the same. This is a hunch, nothing more.
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Okay just thinking out loud at this point but how will this help?
Adaptec 2252400-R 8-lane PCI-E SATA / SAS RAID 31205 Kit RAID 0, 1, 1E, 5, 5EE, 6, 10, 50, 60, JBOD
My thinking is that the onboard RAID controller would have limited throughput compared to an independant controller and using the PCIe bus would be even better still. Am I on the right track here or is there not any benefit of doing this? I have never heard of a SSD RAID setup until Krusty brought it up but looking into it the life cycle of a system that is 'always on' is something like 51 years? What am I waiting on again?
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Fulmar/Boiler I could not tell from your posts but it looks like you mean an APC UPS when you say Smart-UPS? How about this one?
APC Smart-UPS XL SUM1500RMXL2U 1440 VA 1425 Watts
Yes to APC. And I googled that part number and it showed me a Rack mount UPS, which I wouldn't use unless you're mounting this will some servers/switches on a rack. If you want about 1400+ VA, then the SUA1500 is almot identical to what I have (an older 1400 model, lacks USB).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101130
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Thank you Fulmar I made the chanes to my pending order. I still dont know if the PCIe controller is better or if the onboard RAID controller will be just as good? No one has answered that one yet and I have not found a site that discusses that.
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Onboard controllers are almost without exception 'fake' raids i.e. they don't have an own controller chip. They just provide an interface to the OS to handle raid similarly as linux does soft raid natively.
If you get a $300 raid card with it's own processor it offloads I/O functions from the processor and gives you a slight performance benefit if you use an app that has heavy I/O functions.
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Thank you Ripley that pretty much settles it then. I have files that are hundreds of megabytes up to gigabytes that I manipulate in CAD and the system does have two and sometimes more copies of the same file in use so I am hoping a RAID will help cutdown on system lag and maybe even help out with a few other things. :salute
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I couldnt wait any longer... :devil
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If the P5Q gives you an intrusion alarm message and refuses to boot just reset the CMOS and the intrusion alarm jumper.
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Onboard controllers are almost without exception 'fake' raids i.e. they don't have an own controller chip. They just provide an interface to the OS to handle raid similarly as linux does soft raid natively.
If you get a $300 raid card with it's own processor it offloads I/O functions from the processor and gives you a slight performance benefit if you use an app that has heavy I/O functions.
One of the biggest advantages to using an additional controller for your RAID array is something that's rarely mentioned - it's not performance (although MrRiplEy is spot on), it's not functionality - it's that you can move the drive array to almost any other computer that will allow you to plug in the card and keep your RAID Array intact. A failing motherboard in a system (or a simple desire to upgrade) is no where near as big of a deal.
FWIW, I don't see any reason to even bother with RAID 5 any more. Disks are so cheap, and RAID 10 performs so much better, it's just a no brainer.
But SSD - even SSD RAID - is IMO just not worth the 10x+ cost. And given that folks I trust (like Skuzzy) are stating that the current crop of SSD's are prone to catastrophic failure put's a done deal on them in my book.
<S>
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Well, Ghastly, SOMEbody's gotta test it, right?
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Its not ten times the expense I dont care how you calc it (unless I see catastrophic failures). I will keep you up to date. :aok
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Hey, Challenge, how's the SSD working out for you? I'm thinking of using one in my next build. Seems like all the reviews I can find out there on the i-net call it the best single go-fast tweak around.
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Dont do it is all I can recommend. It worked for me... for awhile... and then it slowed WAY down. Vista might have been to blame but I think the technology just isnt there yet. The faster setup is Velociraptors or even 7200 rpm hard drives in RAID either one. A good RAID card is the best way to go also... instead of onboard controllers I mean. By good I mean expensive since I didnt find a cheap one that had happy users and I finally settled on Adaptec.
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I am runnin an SSD... the speed is really good w/ standard windows settings...
But if you do some lookin around and tweak up some drive settings and reg settings..
THEY SCREAM!!!
I have an OCZ they have a great tips page on windows SSD tweaks....
Check your SSD's site for tips on set up....
IT MAKES A MONSTER IMPROVEMENT!!!
Gatr
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Thanks for the update! :salute
This recent article at Anandtech on SSD (http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531&p=3) piqued my interest. He goes into some detail on just why these drives slow down after a while. A good read, IMHO.
But the Intel SSD prices are nuts, at something like 350-400 for a measly 80 GB drive. :eek:
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Thanks for the update! :salute
This recent article at Anandtech on SSD (http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531&p=3) piqued my interest. He goes into some detail on just why these drives slow down after a while. A good read, IMHO.
But the Intel SSD prices are nuts, at something like 350-400 for a measly 80 GB drive. :eek:
If you want I/O Violin (http://www.violin-memory.com/DRAM) is the way to go. Beats the crap out of SSD and won't slow down.
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If you want I/O Violin (http://www.violin-memory.com/DRAM) is the way to go. Beats the crap out of SSD and won't slow down.
Well, yeah... but I'm building one little desktop machine, not a corporate data center. ;)
Still, really nice technology, for sure!
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Whoa... I read that article you linked... Geez, I had no idea the entire system was flawed like that. I was entertaining the idea of MAYBE having a boot drive as SSD and a secondary as a normal HD, but now I think my next computer will just have a fast HD.
I think I'll wait til holographic storage drives are out ;)
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Stay away from RAID5 - its performance sucks.
If you want safety, go RAID1. If you want performance, go RAID0. If you want both, go RAID10.