Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dos Equis on September 25, 2008, 11:45:01 AM
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"Better to be thought a fool, then show up at a debate and remove all doubt."
From today's papers around the nation:
Can McCain pull this off - persuading the public to forget how he and his fellow Reagan Republicans changed the nation's economic rules in ways that allowed Wall Street to run amok, and refocusing its attention on his decisiveness at this moment of crisis? I doubt it. McCain's ploy was transparent. - Washington Post
Democrats accused Mr. McCain of pulling a stunt to halt a slide in the polls. They also tweaked him for declaring the economic situation so dire it requires suspension of his campaign, a week after he declared the fundamentals of the economy are sound. Some independent analysts agreed. "It is a stunt. It is a ploy," said David S. Birdsell, dean of the school of public affairs at Baruch College in New York, an expert on presidential debates. He called it a "very high-risk strategy" for Mr. McCain to take responsibility for brokering a solution to the economic crisis. "He's not president yet," Dr. Birdsell said, adding that pulling out of a debate is unprecedented. "That notion that we take one of the most sacred obligations and rituals of American politics and suspend it because there's an urgent national question is highly problematic." - Dallas Morning News
I like this one, you OC wingnuts should get your panties wadded with this one:
If Winston Churchill could leave London in December 1941 and travel to America to address a joint session of Congress even as British troops in the Far East were reeling under Japanese attacks, somehow we think John McCain can make his way down to Oxford, Miss., for a debate Friday evening without imperiling the future of America. In this case, Barack Obama is right. -Rocky Mountain News
Still, there's an old saying in politics: Think political, but never look political. Given McCain's timing, this seems more political than altruistic. "It looks like a desperate stunt," said another GOP political consultant who worked for a McCain primary opponent. "McCain could have bailed out of the debate a week ago if this was really about the merits." -New York Daily News
And if the wingnuts here want to dismiss all these as too lefty, because they aren't Faux News, then how about the Wall Street Freakin Journal for ya?
Last we checked, the President of the United States was still George W. Bush, the Secretary of the Treasury was still Henry Paulson, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve was still Ben Bernanke, and Congress still had 533 members not running for President who are at least nominally competent to debate and pass legislation. So count us as mystified by Senator John McCain's decision yesterday to suspend his campaign and call for a postponement in Friday's first Presidential debate so that he and Barack Obama can work out a consensus bill to stabilize the financial system. This is supposed to be evidence of leadership? - WSJ
Looks like Dago is the only one who thinks McCain is showing leadership.
All the rest of us think he's a coward unfit to face the people he wishes to lead.
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I don't like McCain. Yet I'm choosing the lesser of two evils in this election.
I don't think Obama is any good if he values a debate over the country's economic issue at hand. For weeks he's been raving on about a, "failing economy." And now... Well, he doesn't seem to care.
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The one about Winston Churchill and that last one were actually pretty good points.
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I don't like McCain. Yet I'm choosing the lesser of two evils in this election.
I don't think Obama is any good if he values a debate over the country's economic issue at hand. For weeks he's been raving on about a, "failing economy." And now... Well, he doesn't seem to care.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.
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Who says McCain is quitting? Certainly not any of your sources. I personally don't believe he is quitting either.
I think it takes an act of selflessness to do what McCain has done.
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Looks like Dago is the only one who thinks McCain is showing leadership.
All the rest of us think he's a coward unfit to face the people he wishes to lead.
That's is beyond low. John McCain may be many things, but he is no coward.
You are beyond a doubt one of the biggest POS for even suggesting that McCain is a coward.
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The one about Winston Churchill and that last one were actually pretty good points.
You liberals would, because you are grasping for straws.
If Winston Churchill could leave London in December 1941 and travel to America to address a joint session of Congress even as British troops in the Far East were reeling under Japanese attacks, somehow we think John McCain can make his way down to Oxford, Miss., for a debate Friday evening without imperiling the future of America. In this case, Barack Obama is right. -Rocky Mountain News
Considering that Churchill was the leader of the UK, and the US had just entering the war less that three weeks earlier, Churchill was there to inspire the US Congress into realizing that the Germans and Japanese had underestimated the allies. Evidenced by the famous quote "What kind of people do they think we are?"
McCain is not President yet. He is a US Senator. The US Senate is debating and drafting key legislation to address the financial crisis. He needs to be a part of that, especially considering the role he is seeking.
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Either this is a troll, or the originator of this thread is really stupid. Which is it?
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That's is beyond low. John McCain may be many things, but he is no coward.
You are beyond a doubt one of the biggest POS for even suggesting that McCain is a coward.
Agreed!!!! Well said!! more liberal crap...it just never ends...these liberals
on this forum sure make a@@ out of themselves...I think they do it for attention
like a little kid wanting attention from their Mommy.
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Both McCain and Obama are likely to have more influence over this critical legislation than the average senator due to the upcoming election. Personally I'll be disappointed if the debates are delayed and I'd like to see McCain go through with it if Obama won't budge.
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Either this is a troll, or the originator of this thread is really stupid. Which is it?
Both!!! and more. Stupid people vote Dems...because they believe this crapola.
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I thought Obama was set to lose because he's black? At least that's what the papers have been saying. You mean McCain might lose?
And this guy shows his total ignorance of history, while trying to impress:
If Winston Churchill could leave London in December 1941 and travel to America to address a joint session of Congress even as British troops in the Far East were reeling under Japanese attacks, somehow we think John McCain can make his way down to Oxford, Miss., for a debate Friday evening without imperiling the future of America. In this case, Barack Obama is right. -Rocky Mountain News
It was absolutely critical that Churchill firm up a US war effort to make sure that it was fully committed to the fight. Bringing the US into the war was seen by Churchill as the crucial element to ultimate victory, and it was time to firmly establish a resolve in the US (as he had in Britain) to see it through against both Japan, and Germany:
The broad flow of munitions in Great Britain has already begun. Immense strides have been made in the conversion of American industry to military purposes, and now that the United States are at war it is possible for orders to be given every day which a year or eighteen months hence will produce results in war power beyond anything that has yet been seen or foreseen in the dictator States. Provided that every effort is made, that nothing is kept back, that the whole man-power, brain power, virility, valour and civic virtue of the English-speaking world with all its galaxy of loyal, friendly, associated communities and States - provided all that is bent unremittingly to the simple and supreme task, I think it would be reasonable to hope that the end of 1942 will see us quite definitely in a better position than we are now, and that the year 1943 will enable us to assume the initiative upon an ample scale.
Churchill, IMO, was additionally setting the groundwork that would place Europe as the primary theater of war, over Japan that had just attacked America directly. Churchill and Roosevelt had already agreed on this in principal at the Atlantic Conference. Dec. 7 added an emotional twist, however. You'll note how the Japanese are portrayed as weaker and stupid by Churchill, in spite of their initial victories:
When we consider the resources of the United States and the British Empire compared to those of Japan, when we remember those of China, which has so long and valiantly withstood invasion and when also we observe the Russian menace which hangs over Japan, it becomes still more difficult to reconcile Japanese action with prudence or even with sanity. What kind of a people do they think we are? Is it possible they do not realise that we shall never cease to persevere against them until they have been taught a lesson which they and the world will never forget?
So, if anything this analogy shows that working through an appropriate solution in the American legislature is very important if you wish to proceed with a policy and that it trumps many other, important concerns and requires a hands-on presence.
By contrast, having a hands on influence in the bailout negotiations one would think would be far more important for an acting president -- either one -- than another political debate especially one on a topic seen as McCain's strong suit. The president will have to deal with this for the next 4-8 (and others to 30 years). There is simply nothing more pressing politically right now, not that both sides won't politicize the event regardless.
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I don't like McCain. Yet I'm choosing the lesser of two evils in this election.
I don't think Obama is any good if he values a debate over the country's economic issue at hand. For weeks he's been raving on about a, "failing economy." And now... Well, he doesn't seem to care.
Bear in mind that we had debates and an election in 1944, 1864. I think the participants were a little busy then too.
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Bear in mind that we had debates and an election in 1944, 1864. I think the participants were a little busy then too.
Unfortunately, this issue will not go on another year or so like the wars you mentioned. Come Monday it will likely all be said and done, for better or for worse. Every dammed politician in Washington had better be devoting 100 percent of his or her time, and that of the staff, making sure we avoid 1929 if we can, or that we avoid a bailout that doesn't work or isn't needed. A better analogy would be expecting a debate between Generals Meade and Lee on the eve of Gettysburg.
Both parties could e-mail their position papers on foreign relations and you would have as much "new" content as you will get out of these controlled debates. The only excitement is looking for a "gotcha" moment from either.
Charon
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Much more interesting and to the point. You posted articles of several papers. Much better then Crockets lame attempts. However I do disagree with the articles. While it may be somewhat true that this a political move on McCains part. I do not believe it was an attempt to avoid the debate. I also believe that McCains heart is in the right place. I am sure there will be a debate rescheduled soon. Now wait for Crocket and Skyrocks comedy act to start.
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Bear in mind that we had debates and an election in 1944, 1864. I think the participants were a little busy then too.
What about "postponing the debate" escapes you?
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When the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal criticizes a republican's campaign move, you can pretty much figure it's a bad move.
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That's is beyond low. John McCain may be many things, but he is no coward.
You are beyond a doubt one of the biggest POS for even suggesting that McCain is a coward.
McCain is a coward, for pulling out of a debate. Plain and simple. :aok
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Looks like the mere threat of McCain going to Washington resulted in an agreement.
Just in time for the debate tomorrow night.
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What about "postponing the debate" escapes you?
what about "a cowardly pullout of a presidental debate" escapes you? :aok
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McCain is not President yet. He is a US Senator. The US Senate is debating and drafting key legislation to address the financial crisis. He needs to be a part of that, especially considering the role he is seeking.
This time obama won't even vote present, maybe he'll send someone in his place to vote absent, if anyone is a coward it's him.
How can you call Mccain a coward for doing his freakin job? Maybe all you guys calling him a coward could clone him to be in two places at once. I guess you've never been in a situation where you were supposed to do something, and something much more important came up and you had to cancel.
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What about "postponing the debate" escapes you?
The need to actually postpone it. No reason they both can't go to Washington do there thing and still have the debate as scheduled. The economy isn't going to fail because McCain and Obama step away on Friday to have the debate. McCain is just playing politics with this and is already trying to get the VP debate canceled, because he knows Pailin isn't ready.
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McCain is a coward, for pulling out of a debate. Plain and simple. :aok
You can honestly sit there and type that type of drivel...
Troll or not, you sir, are as low as they come.
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You can honestly sit there and type that type of drivel...
Troll or not, you sir, are as low as they come.
You don't like that I call a person who uses hot topic of the day to pull out of a presidental debate, a coward? Explain to me how it is not cowardly, and if you are convincing, I will retract my statement. :aok
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That's some stinky bait there... :D
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2337/2425260750_c3b31e30e6.jpg)
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You don't like that I call a person who uses hot topic of the day to pull out of a presidental debate, a coward? Explain to me how it is not cowardly, and if you are convincing, I will retract my statement. :aok
What is the number one most important issues to voters today? The Economy and it's crisis. Currently, the Congress is meeting to discuss and propose legislation to loan approximately 800 billion dollars. McCain disagreed on key points of the legislation that was proposed. He insisted that their be accountability and transparency. It is a lot different sitting in a room with the other Senators and hearing everyone's opinion, and then hearing the opinion of the "real" players in the plan. McCain is a part of it. Many democrat senators insisted they would not vote yes unless McCain did. So, McCain went to Washington and they are working on a deal. It appears that a deal has been reached. Initially McCain expected it take until Monday. Postponing the debate while a real solution is figured out was the right thing to do.
If instead he had simply refused to debate, than that would be a different story. A postponement to deal with an economic crisis that amounts to billions of tax payer dollars is a completely reasonable and smart thing to do.
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You don't like that I call a person who uses hot topic of the day to pull out of a presidental debate, a coward? Explain to me how it is not cowardly, and if you are convincing, I will retract my statement. :aok
Obviously because he loves America so much that he doesn't mind putting democracy on hold.
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No Democracy for you! :rofl :rofl :rofl
(http://www.localseoguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/sein_soup_nazi.jpg)
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Obviously because he loves America so much that he doesn't mind putting democracy on hold.
Obviously you do not understand what a democracy is. Let alone a representative democracy.
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This is a brilliant move on obamas part: Use the campaign as an excuse not to do his job, then when it all goes south he can say "Yo man, I wasn't even in town at the time. This is just another example of the failed policies of George BOOOOsh."
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Obviously you do not understand what a democracy is. Let alone a representative democracy.
My bad I always though the presidential debates played a pretty big part in it.. Go figure, a history lesson in the O' club.
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(http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/4/tinfoil-hat.jpg)
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The need to actually postpone it. No reason they both can't go to Washington do there thing and still have the debate as scheduled. The economy isn't going to fail because McCain and Obama step away on Friday to have the debate. McCain is just playing politics with this and is already trying to get the VP debate canceled, because he knows Pailin isn't ready.
Palin interviewed by Katie. Maybe this was the reason for the debate postponement?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbg6hF0nShQ
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Lol, I thought it was a brialliant move on McCains part. Obama came back and did a good job of sending the heat right back towards McCain then Bush came out and invited them BOTH to the White House....Doh!
Then Clinton came out (Bill) and said not to read too much into the debate postponement, and that he (Clinton) thought both senators needed to be in Washing to cast votes and provide leadership....Doh!
Notice how I did not refer to anyone on this bsb as a moron, or a coward :rock
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Lol, I thought it was a brialliant move on McCains part. Obama came back and did a good job of sending the heat right back towards McCain then Bush came out and invited them BOTH to the White House....Doh!
Then Clinton came out (Bill) and said not to read too much into the debate postponement, and that he (Clinton) thought both senators needed to be in Washing to cast votes and provide leadership....Doh!
Notice how I did not refer to anyone on this bsb as a moron, or a coward :rock
shut it moron coward! hee hee :t
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Bottom line? A bailout deal has been reached but McGoo still won't debate Obama...
But it's not because he's a chicken. :aok
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The need to actually postpone it. No reason they both can't go to Washington do there thing and still have the debate as scheduled. The economy isn't going to fail because McCain and Obama step away on Friday to have the debate. McCain is just playing politics with this and is already trying to get the VP debate canceled, because he knows Pailin isn't ready.
I see you really don't understand how this stuff works. Before a debate, especially the first one, the candidates will spend days with their staff preparing, anticipating any questions and deciding how they will answer them. Good, bad, or ugly, that is how it works. Personally I think McCain would handle better an unprepared debate, but I doubt either candidate wants to go into one cold with so much on the line.
Now, stop showing your ignorance in the way politics works.
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Then Clinton came out (Bill) and said not to read too much into the debate postponement, and that he (Clinton) thought both senators needed to be in Washing to cast votes and provide leadership....Doh!
Notice how I did not refer to anyone on this bsb as a moron, or a coward :rock
Paulsen gave a closed door, no media, powerpoint presentation to the House and Senate. Not just the finance committee, but everyone.
I understand that the solvency of the United States might be considered a matter of national security (i.e. it's a good idea to attack a nation when it's broke) - but I think the people of the United States should have been given at least portions of that presentation.
The tentative bailout was just announced today. $250B right away, and then stipulations for further purchases of bad debt. I want to see what the projections would have been with no bailout. Just let those banks file Chapter 13, and prop up the operational expenses, but they still have to write down bad loans.
I want to see what Paulsen said, because as his three page plan was written, he became the most powerful man in the United States. He has no oversight on how he dispenses the funds. I hope that's been curtailed completely.
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What McCain did was purely political, not a bad move, but still disingenuous. He wanted to come across as a Maverick who put country ahead of self. In his defense, the upcoming foreign policy debate would be his strongest suit.
Lot of fun this election year.
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yep.. he kind of left the messiah out there looking stupid..
They both are senators no matter what... If my record as a senator was that I never voted on the tough issues.. never confronted them just didn't show up or merely voted "present" I would have not done what the messiah did and act like a petulant child when...
everyone from politicians to economists to... even the mush head media is saying this is the worst crisis facing the US since the great depression..
To be petulant about some staged debate where.. the only other time the men debated osamabinbiden got his butt kicked... well.. It just makes no sense.
One man looks like a leader.. the other looks like a sleazy, empty suit chicago corrupt lawyer.
lazs
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Hey, check this out. Looks like quitting debates is McCain's thing.
With new polls showing his campaign dead in the water among California Republicans, Arizona Sen. John McCain has pulled out of a long-scheduled debate with Texas Gov. George Bush, set for Thursday in Los Angeles.
McCain campaign officials tried desperately yesterday to put the best face on their withdrawal, even as a new Field Poll showed Bush far ahead among likely Republican voters in the winner-take-all race for the state's 162 GOP delegates. [...]
The bait and switch on the debate left the Arizona senator -- whose favorite campaign line is "I'll always tell you the truth'' -- wide open to blistering criticism from his rivals.
"Clearly, this is more double-talk from the McCain campaign,'' said Alixe Mattingly, a spokeswoman for Bush. "Pulling out of this debate at the last minute is an indication that they're pulling out of California, where McCain's antagonistic message clearly isn't working.'' With new polls showing his campaign dead in the water among California Republicans, Arizona Sen. John McCain has pulled out of a long-scheduled debate with Texas Gov. George Bush, set for Thursday in Los Angeles.
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McCain is a coward, for pulling out of a debate. Plain and simple. :aok
Why take the typical Hollywood actors view about McCain when your not an actor. Oh that's right you are a member of SAG aren't you?(allegedly) When Hollywood makes it's way down to Arkansas to film another movie on Hillbilly life do you show up as an extra or the leading role?
OBama is a coward for not speaking without a teleprompter. Why..... because he can't . Everytime I see the low eared dork speak without one the first word out of his mouth is "well , um " or some other clueless response to a question asked of him. Every step OBama takes away from his well scripted speeches is a total guess and it shows. The way he reads a teleprompter leads me to believe he also maybe a member of SAG.
P.S. OBama stated the only place for the Confederate flag was in a museum. I guess he just lost all the NASCAR dweebs votes. If he does become President then you'll have to peal the Confederate sticker off your Japanese made Les Paul. :lol
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Why do I read this chit... :rolleyes: :furious
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"Present"
Does this count for the thread?
:huh
Mac/Stang '08
Free America
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Why do I read this chit... :rolleyes: :furious
:D
(http://www.narus.com/blog/images/internetAddiction.jpg)
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obama will vote on the issue, he will call in his "present" vote.