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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nwbie on September 27, 2008, 10:29:33 PM

Title: Hers a thought
Post by: Nwbie on September 27, 2008, 10:29:33 PM
Copy of email i received
>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The Birk Economic Recovery PLan

Hi Pals,

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college – it'll be there
Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car – create jobs
Invest in the market – capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG – liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned
instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. B., A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Bodhi on September 27, 2008, 10:42:37 PM
The only problem is the math does not work.

It comes out to $425 a person.  A little more than the last $600 check most Americans received.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: SFCHONDO on September 28, 2008, 12:39:11 AM
Should do that with the whole 700 Billion bail out and we could get 3.4 million each  :)
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Holden McGroin on September 28, 2008, 12:41:03 AM
Should do that with the whole 700 Billion bail out and we could get 3.4 million each  :)

700,000,000,000.00 / 100,000,000 taxpayers is not 3,400,000, it is 7,000
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Mr No Name on September 28, 2008, 12:52:20 AM
Keep doing the math Holden!  Call the liberals in here so they can learn what a failure wealth redistribution would be!

My theory is that if you took every dime in the US and divided it equally, within 6 months (probably far sooner) you would again have the very wealthy and the very poor... largely divided on the same exact lines as before!
Title: Re: Here's a thought
Post by: HB555 on September 28, 2008, 01:00:35 AM
Mr. No Name,
And why do you think that? Because some people are just prone to a higher work ethic, perhaps a bit luckier than others, but mostly willing to invest in their future, rather than aquiring "stuff" as a first priority?

And how many of you have seen this??

September 30, 1999

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending
By STEVEN A. HOLMES

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.
The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans.. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.
Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.
''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''
Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.
In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.
''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''


Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.
Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Mr No Name on September 28, 2008, 01:02:52 AM
Exactly HB555, Work Ethic, sound judgment, LUCK.. ALL of it comes into play... nice read BTW.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: HB555 on September 28, 2008, 01:09:49 AM
Thank you, but I have an unfair advantage over many.
I am 61 years old, had a dad who could beat me when I needed it, always had a shoulder for me to cry on when I needed it, and taught me, among many other things, that to have all that I needed in this life, I had to work for it.
I enjoyed your post and the way it was worded. Guessing you may be an older guy too.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Mr No Name on September 28, 2008, 01:19:42 AM
I am 44, raised in the Augusta, GA area... My dad took care of business when he needed to, but by the time I was 5 I learned the futility of challenging him, so he didn't have to put me back in line very often LOL.  As a teen, he planted a 2 acre "garden" to keep my brother and I from getting into trouble as preteens and teens while he and my mother worked during the summer.  It wasn't enough to be full-time slave labor BUT it was enough to keep us close to home and perhaps a bit too tired to get into too much trouble!

I had a very smart dad.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: HB555 on September 28, 2008, 01:23:07 AM
And he raised a son smart enough to realize it.
 :salute to both of you.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: alskahawk on September 28, 2008, 05:22:00 AM
 1 billion=1000 x 1 million
1 trillion=100,000 x 1 million

 Raise the debt to 11.3 trillion. 700 billion dollar bailout 700 billion and no one is sure if this will work. According to John McCain, this is the end of the beginning. He may be right. So that brings up a question. Why should we retain any politician that gives away 700 billion dollars of our hard earned tax dollars to wall street fat cats? We don't vote for the banking lobby, we vote for representatives to carry out our will and to look out for our best interests.
 11.3 trillion debt, 700 billion dollar bailout. And in a election year? That is unbridled arrogance.

 Imagine what 700 billion would do to the economy if distributed to the American taxpayer. It would save a lot of foreclosures. The boost to the economy would be enormous since most of this money would be spent immediately. The boon to local business would be unprecedented. Imagine every person on your block suddenly having an extra 20,000 or 200,000 dollars. Instead of a trickle down theory we would have a trickle up reality. Local spending would rise, investments would rise, revenues would increase. Money would be spent where it could be felt. And we wouldn't have to throw a bunch of dead beats out of office.
 


   
 
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: john9001 on September 28, 2008, 07:44:18 AM
you know what makes me mad, i missed out on those nothing down 110% mortgages.  :furious
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Toad on September 28, 2008, 08:20:20 AM
"Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending By STEVEN A. HOLMES "

That article is out of the famous conservative newspaper, the New York Times back in '99.

Pretty much gives the lie to the idea that this problem is all the fault of the Republicans, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 28, 2008, 08:34:18 AM
The only problem is the math does not work.

It comes out to $425 a person.  A little more than the last $600 check most Americans received.
:rofl

Remembering to slash the zeros and not think too hard about it prevents this kind of mistake!

That said, tax payer bailouts to "stimulate" the economy by getting us to spend more are like giving an alcoholic one more drink.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: lazs2 on September 28, 2008, 09:23:48 AM
Toad.. that is what I said here when this thing first started.. all the usual suspects acted like I had peeed in their fruit loops.

They asked me to show what regulation had caused this mess.   Not so much as regulation but control over lending institutions and the usual strings that liberal socialist government puts on all the programs they help fund.. that worthless socialist ideals be part of those programs...

Anything government touches it trashes.

lazs
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Serenity on September 29, 2008, 03:45:22 AM
Keep doing the math Holden!  Call the liberals in here so they can learn what a failure wealth redistribution would be!

My theory is that if you took every dime in the US and divided it equally, within 6 months (probably far sooner) you would again have the very wealthy and the very poor... largely divided on the same exact lines as before!

Mostly, though I think some will be better off. My mom isnt exactly rich but thats not because she doesnt work hard, its because she was an idiot and decided to get a job doing what she enjoyed, even though it doesn't pay jack****. Some people might just move up a bit, though I admit those would be few and far between.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Hangtime on September 29, 2008, 05:00:20 AM
well... yer 'idiot' Mom managed to raise you; and it's a pretty good call on her part, what with her taking a job she enjoys... since raising an ungrateful disrespectful kid couldn't have been much fun.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: eskimo2 on September 29, 2008, 05:09:00 AM
OK, it looks like I have to be the first to say it:

Hers - root word her, not here.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Serenity on September 29, 2008, 05:12:39 AM
well... yer 'idiot' Mom managed to raise you; and it's a pretty good call on her part, what with her taking a job she enjoys... since raising an ungrateful disrespectful kid couldn't have been much fun.

Hang, pardon me for not thinking more of her occupation when I have to sit there and listen to her complain daily about how she wants to get paid more, how she hates the hours, and how she doesnt have enough money because she refuses to consider either relocating to where her job might be more profitable, or selecting an occupation that would be more practical in our current location. I guess Im just not the type to say I will live barely above the poverty line because I would rather get paid less than a jack-in-the-box manager because I would rather be artistic. What can I say? I was raised to do what I NEED to do, before what I WANT to do. And uh, hang, don't start about respect. Ive seen some posts of yours that make me look like a saint. (Dont ask me to site those, its almost midnight and ive got school in the morning. I dont care if you dont beleive it. Its nto important enough to bother myself over.)
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Holden McGroin on September 29, 2008, 05:16:14 AM
Hang, pardon me for not thinking more of her occupation when I have to sit there and listen to her complain daily about how she wants to get paid more, how she hates the hours, and how she doesnt have enough money because she refuses to consider either relocating to where her job might be more profitable, or selecting an occupation that would be more practical in our current location. I guess Im just not the type to say I will live barely above the poverty line because I would rather get paid less than a jack-in-the-box manager because I would rather be artistic. What can I say? I was raised to do what I NEED to do, before what I WANT to do. And uh, hang, don't start about respect. Ive seen some posts of yours that make me look like a saint. (Dont ask me to site those, its almost midnight and ive got school in the morning. I dont care if you dont beleive it. Its nto important enough to bother myself over.)

Well you can't argue with that Hangtime, I think he wins that point: his mom is an idiot.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Serenity on September 29, 2008, 05:43:24 AM
Well you can't argue with that Hangtime, I think he wins that point: his mom is an idiot.

No, she just made one idiotic choice IMHO.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Hangtime on September 29, 2008, 02:59:17 PM
Hang, pardon me for not thinking more of her occupation when I have to sit there and listen to her complain daily about how she wants to get paid more, how she hates the hours, and how she doesnt have enough money because she refuses to consider either relocating to where her job might be more profitable, or selecting an occupation that would be more practical in our current location. I guess Im just not the type to say I will live barely above the poverty line because I would rather get paid less than a jack-in-the-box manager because I would rather be artistic. What can I say? I was raised to do what I NEED to do, before what I WANT to do. And uh, hang, don't start about respect. Ive seen some posts of yours that make me look like a saint. (Dont ask me to site those, its almost midnight and ive got school in the morning. I dont care if you dont beleive it. Its nto important enough to bother myself over.)

Kid, in yer bright lil 16 year old brain, I'm sure you think you have all the answers.. as for respect; I give it where it's earned, and your disrespect of your mother is deserving of a boot in your padded parts.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Serenity on September 29, 2008, 06:38:29 PM
Kid, in yer bright lil 16 year old brain, I'm sure you think you have all the answers..

Actually, I dont. I simply think that was a foolish choice on her part as she has ended up hating because of the buisness. Why continue with a job if you hate what you do, you hate your hours, and you BARELY get paid enough to live on?
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Hangtime on September 29, 2008, 07:02:14 PM
yer eating, got clothes, yer sitting in front of a computer.

Cry me a river, kid.

Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Serenity on September 29, 2008, 10:17:14 PM
yer eating, got clothes, yer sitting in front of a computer.

Cry me a river, kid.



Does that mean it was a good choice? No.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Rollins on September 30, 2008, 01:32:13 AM
Does that mean it was a good choice? No.

You have enough time to fabricate stories about kung fu pineapples and Casey Ryback knife battles, you have enough time to sit with Ma and talk with her about it. Without referring to her as an idiot.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 30, 2008, 01:39:39 AM
Serenity, cut your mom some slack.  When you have to work for a living, having a job that means something to you is worth a lot.  When I was a kid I thought like you and told myself I'd become a lawyer to make millions and never worry about money like I saw my parents do.  Adults complain about money, but if you got a roof over your head (and an internet connection ;)), the best thing you can do is remind your mom that there's things to be thankful for.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Serenity on September 30, 2008, 01:58:41 AM
Serenity, cut your mom some slack.  When you have to work for a living, having a job that means something to you is worth a lot.  When I was a kid I thought like you and told myself I'd become a lawyer to make millions and never worry about money like I saw my parents do.  Adults complain about money, but if you got a roof over your head (and an internet connection ;)), the best thing you can do is remind your mom that there's things to be thankful for.

Yeah, what drives me nuts is she USED to love it. If she still did that would be understandable, but shes actually admitted that she hates it now because shes been doing it for a living. And yet she wont change it. Its just really frustrating for me having to hear her complain about how much she hates it, but how shes never going to change it.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Raptor on September 30, 2008, 02:00:49 AM
If every American 18+ got 297,000.00 each, that would not help. That would just mean gas would be $50 a gallon. Hurray inflation!
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Eagler on September 30, 2008, 07:57:10 AM
if you gave each American $50k and the majority would go out and spend $80k
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: sluggish on September 30, 2008, 08:14:18 AM
if you gave each American $50k and the majority would go out and spend $80k

Case in point-

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Extreme-Makeover-Foreclosure-and-Failing-in-America&id=1372797

If you took all the cash and divided it equally among all Americans, within two years it would all be back where it started from.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: john9001 on September 30, 2008, 09:36:55 AM
Case in point-

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Extreme-Makeover-Foreclosure-and-Failing-in-America&id=1372797

If you took all the cash and divided it equally among all Americans, within two years it would all be back where it started from.

then why not do it? I love theories that can't be proved.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 30, 2008, 10:04:10 AM
I beg to differ.  If you gave me $50k I would put it in the bank, and then consider some wise investments.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Eagler on September 30, 2008, 10:28:15 AM
I beg to differ.  If you gave me $50k I would put it in the bank, and then consider some wise investments.

then you are not part of the majority

reckless spending has gotten us into this sinking ship, more spending will not get us out of it

we need to crash and burn
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 30, 2008, 10:34:04 AM
My friends have given me crap for not buying more stuff.  I'm serious. :huh  They say I'm a bad American because I wear the same shoes until they wear out, I drive an economical car, haven't bought new clothes in over a year, and have a small TV. :aok
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Chalenge on September 30, 2008, 10:52:55 AM
Kind of gross but you just got me thinking about new underwear.  :O Just cant bring myself to wear it until it has holes in it sorry.

Unlike you I try to play it smart in some areas like the car and food and clothes but then I indulge myself in things like golf and computers and spending money on family but being smart in the areas that are important assures that there is money coming in so those indulgences are small potatos by comparison.

You have to understand too that finances are a matter of habit. You absolutely must form good habits if you want to hold onto money and security. I have known people that if given a million dollars would spend themselves right back down to the level they were at before the 'luck' came to them. I dont believe in 'luck' and the 'fortunate' ones that are always so hated by the left are simply people that have their ducks in proper rows. In fact I feel so strongly about this that I feel the whining against the 'rich' and 'lucky' ones is just affirmation of all my habits and beliefs and I would never classify myself as 'rich' except in the area of family.

Now I also see why 'artists' have to live off of welfare. They dont even love their own mothers.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: john9001 on September 30, 2008, 12:42:25 PM
i bought my car new, it is now 17 years old, i maintain it, it runs fine, it was built in Ohio by americans.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Chalenge on September 30, 2008, 01:11:10 PM
The only thing 'buying American' cars does anymore is give 64% of the wholesale price to Congress to spend on handouts.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: avionix on September 30, 2008, 02:12:51 PM
$50,000

I would pay off my student loans and then maybe think about buying one of these houses that has dropped in price.

Serenity.  Seriously give you mom the benefit.  You can't second guess your parents decisions.  You were not living in her shoes at the time.  I personally left a good paying job to get into the area I love.  The pay is less, more hours and more responsiblity.  I gripe like hell, but not a day goes by that I do not regret my decision.  Cut her some slack and ask how you could help out a little bit.  Maybe getting off of the computer for a couple of hours a week would help her beyond what you can imagine.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Ripsnort on September 30, 2008, 02:26:17 PM
I am 44, raised in the Augusta, GA area... My dad took care of business when he needed to, but by the time I was 5 I learned the futility of challenging him, so he didn't have to put me back in line very often LOL.  As a teen, he planted a 2 acre "garden" to keep my brother and I from getting into trouble as preteens and teens while he and my mother worked during the summer.  It wasn't enough to be full-time slave labor BUT it was enough to keep us close to home and perhaps a bit too tired to get into too much trouble!

I had a very smart dad.

Similar story, but we have a 160 acre "hobby farm"....meaning Dad went on the road (as a salesman working for a corporation) Mon-Fri, and we (the kids) tended to the farm! Fortunately we only bred and raised horses (sold a couple each year), a couple cows for slaughtering, chickens, and a 2 acre garden that we weeded by hoe and by hand. When you finished, you started over again because new weeds were sprouting up! I was always envious of other kids that got a "summer vacation" in the summer months.
Title: Re: Hers a thought
Post by: Mr No Name on September 30, 2008, 02:42:48 PM
exactly, all hand tools, even the plow and here in the south you can almost watch the weeds grow lol