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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: BTW on September 30, 2008, 02:50:04 PM

Title: The Dow is up today
Post by: BTW on September 30, 2008, 02:50:04 PM
So how does this 5% increase in the Dow figure into the end of the world and soup lines?
My fellow Americans, we have got to stop listening to stupid people.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: MORAY37 on September 30, 2008, 03:06:31 PM
So how does this 5% increase in the Dow figure into the end of the world and soup lines?
My fellow Americans, we have got to stop listening to stupid people.

The Dow was never the problem.  It is just one of the thermometers taking the patient's temperature.  The freezing up of the credit system is the problem...and it froze up even more since yesterday. (The standard lending rate, by which banks lend each other, almost doubled yesterday... and went up even more today)

You show a gross and average american misunderstanding of the problem.  The Stock Markets will respond however they will....all of their eggs aren't involved in the problem (the financial sector, lending and credit).  The stock markets are also reacting today to the call that "there WILL be a rescue" in the very near future. 

If there isn't a rescue deal, you will have a better understanding of the issue, when your credit cards and payroll don't go through. 
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: DrDea on September 30, 2008, 03:12:18 PM
THE SKY IS RAISING

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m141/Drs109/everybodypanic.gif)
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: BTW on September 30, 2008, 03:14:35 PM
The Dow was never the problem.  It is just one of the thermometers taking the patient's temperature.  The freezing up of the credit system is the problem...and it froze up even more since yesterday. (The standard lending rate, by which banks lend each other, almost doubled yesterday... and went up even more today)

You show a gross and average american misunderstanding of the problem.  The Stock Markets will respond however they will....all of their eggs aren't involved in the problem (the financial sector, lending and credit).  The stock markets are also reacting today to the call that "there WILL be a rescue" in the very near future. 

If there isn't a rescue deal, you will have a better understanding of the issue, when your credit cards and payroll don't go through. 

Er no, you're wrong. The people telling us we needed this socialism package said the markets would collapse if they didn't get it. The markets aren't collapsing. I show a gross revulsion to fear mongers, especially anti-capitalism fear mongers.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: BTW on September 30, 2008, 03:16:52 PM
THE SKY IS RAISING

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m141/Drs109/everybodypanic.gif)

 :rofl

There's no spin like spin you get when know-it-alls are plain wrong.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Ripsnort on September 30, 2008, 03:24:28 PM
You can thank me partially. I bought a few good bargain stocks out there too good to be true.  :rock
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: MORAY37 on September 30, 2008, 03:25:40 PM
Er no, you're wrong. The people telling us we needed this socialism package said the markets would collapse if they didn't get it. The markets aren't collapsing. I show a gross revulsion to fear mongers, especially anti-capitalism fear mongers.

I don't like the buy out any more than you do.... I hate it, actually.  I hate it with a passion for the handcuffs it puts on our children, just like the war in Iraq.

I do however, understand that banks lending each other money at a standard low rate is exactly what our entire consumer economy is based on.  If it doesn't happen, everything freezes up.  The Markets, be damned.  They're only reacting to the news that there "will" be a package successfully signed in the next few days....which I fully expect to happen.  Do you realize that yesterday, our economy lost over 1 TRILLION dollars..... gaining back half a trillion is good, but the real indicator is the credit market.  

That indicator is in serious trouble.
Quote
NEW YORK, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The key lending rate between U.S. banks skyrocketed on Tuesday with other market interest rates after a surprise defeat of a $700 billion bank bailout plan caused a further drop in global credit availability.

The interest rate on federal funds, or supply of surplus reserves that banks lend to each other overnight, opened at 7 percent, well above the current 2 percent target rate set by the Federal Reserve.

The effective or average rate on fed funds was 1.56 percent on Monday after trading between 0.01 percent and 3.00 percent, according to the New York Fed.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: MORAY37 on September 30, 2008, 03:27:19 PM
You can thank me partially. I bought a few good bargain stocks out there too good to be true.  :rock

Which is exactly why the market rose.... alot of people are betting on this plan to be signed into law.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: indy007 on September 30, 2008, 03:29:20 PM
Which is exactly why the market rose.... alot of people are betting on this plan to be signed into law.

Actually the smart people are buying & selling rather fast to take advantage of the stupid people betting on this plan to be signed into law.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: BTW on September 30, 2008, 03:59:53 PM
I don't like the buy out any more than you do.... I hate it, actually.  I hate it with a passion for the handcuffs it puts on our children, just like the war in Iraq.

I do however, understand that banks lending each other money at a standard low rate is exactly what our entire consumer economy is based on.  If it doesn't happen, everything freezes up.  The Markets, be damned.  They're only reacting to the news that there "will" be a package successfully signed in the next few days....which I fully expect to happen.  Do you realize that yesterday, our economy lost over 1 TRILLION dollars..... gaining back half a trillion is good, but the real indicator is the credit market. 

That indicator is in serious trouble.

Then why do you reject out of hand the suspension of market to market accounting and go strait for the socialistic tax payer bail out?
I will do anything in my power to try to prevent any type of tax payer intervention.  There are other ways to bring back liquidity without taxpayer help but they have to get off of that market to market valuing system. The fat little market has to stop screaming for government help every time it cycles to weed out stupid.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Toad on September 30, 2008, 04:01:12 PM
Thank God it's no longer a bailout; we've improved the situation to where we only need a "rescue deal" now.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Donzo on September 30, 2008, 04:15:16 PM
IDo you realize that yesterday, our economy lost over 1 TRILLION dollars..... gaining back half a trillion is good...

Can you explain this?

I'm not understanding how an economy "loses" money.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: MORAY37 on September 30, 2008, 04:26:11 PM
Can you explain this?

I'm not understanding how an economy "loses" money.

1Trillion in equity value, sir.  That's what 800 points equates out to in stock valuation.  Actually, it was around 1.2 trillion $ lost yesterday.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Nwbie on September 30, 2008, 05:13:45 PM
1Trillion in equity value, sir.  That's what 800 points equates out to in stock valuation.  Actually, it was around 1.2 trillion $ lost yesterday.

Moray --- shhhhhhh

next thing you know - it will be understood that the "bailout" would only have "cost" (assuming that nothing could be resold by the fed) half of that
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: BTW on September 30, 2008, 05:15:19 PM
Thank God it's no longer a bailout; we've improved the situation to where we only need a "rescue deal" now.

Let the euphemisms begin.

"rescue deal" bailout
"leadership" going against the wishes of your constituents you were elected to represent.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: BTW on September 30, 2008, 05:19:52 PM
Moray --- shhhhhhh

next thing you know - it will be understood that the "bailout" would only have "cost" (assuming that nothing could be resold by the fed) half of that


If the market is inflated by 4 trillion dollars, we haven't even scratched the surface in fixing it.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on September 30, 2008, 05:30:42 PM
Moray --- shhhhhhh

next thing you know - it will be understood that the "bailout" would only have "cost" (assuming that nothing could be resold by the fed) half of that


Yeah, that's what they're telling us NOW. If you've ever actually DEALT with the government, you know anything they get involved in costs as much as 4 to 10 times what the original projection was. And once they have you for that FIRST 3/4 of a TRILLION, they'll drag you in for the next 2-3 trillion before it is over with.

I'd bet most all of the issues could be dealt with in a survivable manner for under a couple of billion dollars.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: john9001 on September 30, 2008, 05:32:46 PM
the only people that lost money yesterday were the ones that panicked and sold, the smart players bought stocks at a discount, some stocks were up 15% today , some people made a lot of money today.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Nwbie on September 30, 2008, 05:33:37 PM
If the market is inflated by 4 trillion dollars, we haven't even scratched the surface in fixing it.

it is not the "market" -- it is the banking "industry" - the market is way too broad a term

Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: MORAY37 on September 30, 2008, 06:10:26 PM
the only people that lost money yesterday were the ones that panicked and sold, the smart players bought stocks at a discount, some stocks were up 15% today , some people made a lot of money today.

You still don't realize that it isn't the Stock Market that is in trouble.... It is the banking industry that BACKS the market up with capital and credit.  You really need to separate the two, and realize they are different.  One can exist without the other.... one cannot exist in a stable state, without the other.

Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Donzo on September 30, 2008, 06:50:14 PM
1Trillion in equity value, sir.  That's what 800 points equates out to in stock valuation.  Actually, it was around 1.2 trillion $ lost yesterday.

The stock market lost value. 

That is not the same as the economy losing money.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: myelo on September 30, 2008, 07:05:43 PM
So how does this 5% increase in the Dow figure into the end of the world and soup lines?

Dead cats bounce.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Chalenge on September 30, 2008, 07:16:00 PM
Excuse me but the market is fine (some turmoil is good to sort out the weaklings and archaic stocks/funds). Its investors that lost confidence in the market and bickering on the hill that didnt help yesterday. People made a little money by purchasing a few choice stocks today on discounted values as they should and thats why the market climbed a little.  :aok

The market and economy overall would be even more 'fine' if Congress had any brains to focus on the situation and made some sound decisions actually ANY sound decision would be good enough. Unfortunately the main powers on the hill prefer to get partisan and bicker and blame and that doesnt bring forth confidence from the investors that could very easily resume trading without fear. If nothing else Congress is consistent... consistently dim but at least consistent.

Just remember the dopes on election day and vote accordingly.  :D
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: eagl on September 30, 2008, 10:02:32 PM
So how does this 5% increase in the Dow figure into the end of the world and soup lines?
My fellow Americans, we have got to stop listening to stupid people.

Shh.  Drink your kool-aid and vote for change.  Ignore the socialist behind the curtain.

Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Nwbie on October 01, 2008, 10:09:40 AM
Shh.  Drink your kool-aid and vote for change.  Ignore the socialist behind the curtain.



in 6 months - when you realize that your mutual fund/ pension/ ira/ 401k - whatever - is still in the tank - remember how your reps held out on making a decision, or not.
Then read a book on economics, and how the world economy works.

Wanna bet all of those senators and congressman had their personal accounts pulled out of the market, because they understand the difference between the stock market and the financial workings of the economy. Send them an email asking them what actions they have made with their personal finances while playing politics. Wanna bet you don't get an answer.

 
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Carrel on October 01, 2008, 10:18:40 AM
Thank God it's no longer a bailout; we've improved the situation to where we only need a "rescue deal" now.


I'm withholding support until they call it a "helping hand."
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: Nwbie on October 01, 2008, 10:26:25 AM

I'm withholding support until they call it a "helping hand."

It is going to be a earmark laden agreement - it is going to be a band-aid over a wound that needs surgery, it is going to be a political based -taking care of my friends- bill, and it is very very frightening how many people do not understand what is really happening in the financial markets.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: DrDea on October 01, 2008, 10:32:25 AM
It is going to be a earmark laden agreement - it is going to be a band-aid over a wound that needs surgery, it is going to be a political based -taking care of my friends- bill, and it is very very frightening how many people do not understand what is really happening in the financial markets.


  Ahhhh that would make it a "Police action" then :aok
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: FrodeMk3 on October 01, 2008, 10:45:42 AM
In keeping with the original topic of the thread...The dow is down again, about 120-140 points from yesterday.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: john9001 on October 01, 2008, 11:15:01 AM
question:: is the stock market going to go up or down?

answer:: yes.
Title: Re: The Dow is up today
Post by: BTW on October 01, 2008, 01:25:02 PM
question:: is the stock market going to go up or down?

answer:: yes.

Have you ever received junk email claiming to predict the fluctuations in the stock market?
Why is it that we have no problem deleting that yet we believe dipstick politicians claiming the same?

Which of these geniuses predicted a minor correction today?