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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on October 02, 2008, 07:36:26 AM

Title: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Ripsnort on October 02, 2008, 07:36:26 AM
Here's the quick list of the senators who voted NO on bailout/economic rescue.

Allard (R)
Barasso  (R)
Brownback  (R)
Bunning (R)
Cantwell (D)
Cochran (R)
Crapo (R)
DeMint (R)
Dole (R)
Dorgan (D)
Enzi (R)
Feingold (D)
Inhofe (R)
Johnson (D)
Landrieu (D)
Nelson (FL) (D)
Roberts (R)
Sanders (I)
Sessions (R)
Shelby (R)
Stabenow (D)
Tester (D)
Vitter (R)
Wicker (R)
Wyden (D)

These are ALL the votes. If you voted NO and you see your state senator on this list with YEA behind their name, vote 'em out of office!

Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Nay
Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay

Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Hap on October 02, 2008, 07:41:41 AM
Both my Wyoming guys said "nay."
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Donzo on October 02, 2008, 07:43:57 AM
Both of mine voted "Yea".

One was on the radio this morning and stated that he voted yes even though his office received calls not favoring the bailout at a 20 to 1 ratio.  He even said he realized it might cost him an election....well, he got something right.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Ripsnort on October 02, 2008, 07:46:06 AM
Sen Pam Roach (My district senator ) did not vote.  I sent her an email last night and CC'd the State Reps:
Quote
Mrs. Roach,
I did not see your vote on the Senate Floor last evening. I was wondering why I did not see your vote.

I personally will not vote for any politician that has voted YES for this ill-advised Bail out plan.

Regards,


The WA state senators that were present, one voted yes and one voted no.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on October 02, 2008, 07:48:31 AM
Both of mine voted "Yea". They got a nice note this morning. My Representative voted no last time. I asked him to vote no again.

DO NOT give up yet. Keep hammering on these people. Just because it passed the Senate does NOT mean it will pass the House. Most often, they argue over what is in the crap they pass. Get after your Representatives and get them to vote NO. If it does not pass in the House, the Senate will get another chance, and you will get another chance at your Senators.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: bongaroo on October 02, 2008, 08:00:33 AM
Dole voted no.  Burr voted yes.  Odd.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Stringer on October 02, 2008, 08:03:09 AM
Go Kansas!

I do credit Toad with the 2 Kansas NO votes!
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: sluggish on October 02, 2008, 08:06:03 AM
I can't believe Stabenow voted no...

On the other hand I'm not surprised Levin voted yes.

It's been said before and I'll say it again, if you want to know what a liberal dem executive office and a dem controlled house and senate will do to an economy, look no further than Michigan.  And the idiots here just keep sending them back to Lansing...
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Ripsnort on October 02, 2008, 08:08:47 AM
Can you get in trouble when you tell a Senator to go to hell for voting yes?  :devil :angel:
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: bongaroo on October 02, 2008, 08:09:15 AM
I can't believe Stabenow voted no...

On the other hand I'm not surprised Levin voted yes.

It's been said before and I'll say it again, if you want to know what a liberal dem executive office and a dem controlled house and senate will do to an economy, look no further than Michigan.  And the idiots here just keep sending them back to Lansing...

Be sure you don't just look at the economy through republican rosy-red glasses.  Lots of industry in all the red states have tanked as well.

But keep trying to fool youself with who to blame; truth is you'll find people from both sides of the aisle over the past 20 years to heap this crap on.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Ripsnort on October 02, 2008, 08:09:58 AM
Be sure you don't just look at the economy through republican rosy-red glasses.  Lots of industry in all the red states have tanked as well.

But keep trying to fool youself with who to blame; truth is you'll find people from both sides of the aisle over the past 20 years to heap this crap on.
Personally, I vote the issues, not the party.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: sluggish on October 02, 2008, 08:11:52 AM
Be sure you don't just look at the economy through republican rosy-red glasses.  Lots of industry in all the red states have tanked as well.

But keep trying to fool youself with who to blame; truth is you'll find people from both sides of the aisle over the past 20 years to heap this crap on.

Backing a destructive union and raising corporate taxes always stimulates an economy... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Ripsnort on October 02, 2008, 08:13:54 AM
Be sure you don't just look at the economy through republican rosy-red glasses.  Lots of industry in all the red states have tanked as well.

But keep trying to fool youself with who to blame; truth is you'll find people from both sides of the aisle over the past 20 years to heap this crap on.
We know it started with the Democrats and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac in 2004. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs) When a political group invests in a company (and makes it appear to be for "the poor" they tend to protect their financial interests. :devil
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Donzo on October 02, 2008, 08:14:25 AM
Be sure you don't just look at the economy through republican rosy-red glasses.  Lots of industry in all the red states have tanked as well.

But keep trying to fool youself with who to blame; truth is you'll find people from both sides of the aisle over the past 20 years to heap this crap on.


I'm sorry...I tried, but I am unable to understand what this has to do with this thread.

Thanks for playing....you FAIL!
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: sluggish on October 02, 2008, 08:26:11 AM
I'm not going to send mine a note because I vote against them every election anyways.  But the people here just keep sending them back to Washington...

I don't blame my dad's generation for being brainwashed; it was inevitable.  You should read some of the garbage that they feed them in the union papers.  The funny thing is, if you took most of the people in the UAW and got them to state their core beliefs and values, they would probably most align with repubs or libertarians, but they are told to tow the party line and they do every time.  Everything has been laid out for them in simple black and white:  It's always the workers against the company, and the union tells them that the dems are their only slim chance and that the repubs are their sure demise.

This is how the dem party works:  Paint a helpless picture of doom and gloom, tell the people that "they" are their only chance, then throw some cool shiney stuff at them for free. - Kinda like this current bill...
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: alskahawk on October 02, 2008, 09:22:44 AM
Here's the quick list of the senators who voted NO on bailout/economic rescue.

Allard (R)
Barasso  (R)
Brownback  (R)
Bunning (R)
Cantwell (D)
Cochran (R)
Crapo (R)
DeMint (R)
Dole (R)
Dorgan (D)
Enzi (R)
Feingold (D)
Inhofe (R)
Johnson (D)
Landrieu (D)
Nelson (FL) (D)
Roberts (R)
Sanders (I)
Sessions (R)
Shelby (R)
Stabenow (D)
Tester (D)
Vitter (R)
Wicker (R)
Wyden (D)

These are ALL the votes. If you voted NO and you see your state senator on this list with YEA behind their name, vote 'em out of office!

Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Nay
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Nay
Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Martinez (R-FL), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Sununu (R-NH), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay



 Looks like I will be voting NO across the board in my state too come November.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Nwbie on October 02, 2008, 09:43:58 AM
now to the real question

If your House member votes yes - on the 400 some odd page "refined Bill"

Are you going to be mad that he/she voted no on the 3 page original bill ?


Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: SIK1 on October 02, 2008, 09:53:20 AM
It's no surprise that Boxer and Feinstein both vote yea. Not much luck voting them out either.

I have been trying for years but the fruits and nuts outnumber the sane people here four to one.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Nwbie on October 03, 2008, 11:00:55 AM
any 1 watching c-span right now? The debate is on the house floor
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Nwbie on October 03, 2008, 11:31:25 AM
http://dyn.politico.com/wuerker/flashPopup.cfm?swfURL=http://multimedia.politico.com/flashcartoons/earmarks.swf&swfWidth=540&swfHeight=410

Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Mustaine on October 03, 2008, 03:28:04 PM
I've been trying to vote Kohl (Yea) and Feingold (Nay) out for years... too many idiot liberals in Madison keep them in.

WI loses either way, regardless of what I think (and I am not stating my opinion on this matter)
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Kaw1000 on October 03, 2008, 03:34:02 PM
In a previous post I stated " Some politicans will wait till the vote hits the treshold of being

past...then vote no to make themselves look good politically. Beware!!
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: DYNAMITE on October 03, 2008, 03:38:45 PM
Legit question for your guys... i'm seriously not trolling with this.

For the folks saying vote out your Sen if s/he voted Yea for the bailout, will you withhold your vote for Senator McCain? 
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: sluggish on October 03, 2008, 03:40:48 PM
Good question.

No.  Staying home or voting third party is the same as a vote for Obama.  What we have here truly is the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Eagler on October 03, 2008, 03:50:14 PM
Legit question for your guys... i'm seriously not trolling with this.

For the folks saying vote out your Sen if s/he voted Yea for the bailout, will you withhold your vote for Senator McCain? 

he's not my senator
are you saying not to vote for him and let obamaman walk in without at least a fight? they both voted yes for the dam thing
no thanks
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: DYNAMITE on October 03, 2008, 04:10:09 PM
no no-

That's not what I meant Eagler... and I'm honestly not suggesting you withhold your vote for him...

I was just asking if his supporters that were also against this bail out would change their minds at all because of his support of it.  That's all-
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Eagler on October 03, 2008, 04:15:56 PM
I wonder why, knowing this stupid bill was going to pass today, some politic  genius didn't tell Palin or joe for that matter to go out and say they were against it last night, they could have even blamed it on the pork and not the bill itself .. talk about making brownie points with the fiscal conservatives
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Patches1 on October 03, 2008, 04:28:12 PM
Anyone notice that BOTH Presidential Candidates, Obama and McCain, vote, "AYE"?
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Ripsnort on October 03, 2008, 10:34:41 PM
Anyone notice that BOTH Presidential Candidates, Obama and McCain, vote, "AYE"?
Absolutely. Both are democrats, both like to spend.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Getback on October 04, 2008, 04:51:43 AM
now to the real question

If your House member votes yes - on the 400 some odd page "refined Bill"

Are you going to be mad that he/she voted no on the 3 page original bill ?




Yes, it was a bad bill from page 1.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Shuckins on October 04, 2008, 06:27:47 AM
They have no imagination about them at all.  Not an original thinker in the bunch.  There were a host of economists and a handful of congressmen who offered intelligent, workable alternatives to this bill......but they would not be swayed. 

I guess there was something mesmerizing...awe inspiring....about handling that much money.

Lincoln and Pryor's votes (Arkansas) didn't surprise me in the least.  Couple of tow-the-line, drink the kool-aid party shills.  Never voted for either, and never will.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Reschke on October 04, 2008, 08:50:45 AM
Glad to see both senators from Alabama voted NO on the bailout. I hate that it passed since this crap has done nothing to improve the situation.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: myelo on October 04, 2008, 08:55:37 AM
Anyone notice that BOTH Presidential Candidates, Obama and McCain, vote, "AYE"?

Anyone notice Bush signed it?


Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: SIK1 on October 04, 2008, 10:08:41 AM
Anyone notice that the vast majority of the people of this country were against the bailout. Did you also notice that our elected officials did what they wanted to anyway.

In their defence their are just trying to protect us, the ignorant masses. After all they have shown such brilliance and wisdom with their leadership in the past. We should just shut up and let them do what's good for them....errr I mean us... errr I mean the U.S.

It looks like our lawmakers really showed us how much our vote counts.

For the people and by the people, as long as the big corporations agree.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Sandman on October 04, 2008, 10:33:46 AM
Anyone notice that BOTH Presidential Candidates, Obama and McCain, vote, "AYE"?

"I will make them famous. You will know their names!"

Right...
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 04, 2008, 11:35:56 AM
Here's the quick list of the senators who voted NO on bailout/economic rescue.

Allard (R)
Barasso  (R)
Brownback  (R)
Bunning (R)
Cantwell (D)
Cochran (R)
Crapo (R)
DeMint (R)
Dole (R)
Dorgan (D)
Enzi (R)
Feingold (D)
Inhofe (R)
Johnson (D)
Landrieu (D)
Nelson (FL) (D)
Roberts (R)
Sanders (I)
Sessions (R)
Shelby (R)
Stabenow (D)
Tester (D)
Vitter (R)
Wicker (R)
Wyden (D)

Feingold rarely fails to impress me.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: bsdaddict on October 04, 2008, 01:48:17 PM
Anyone notice that the vast majority of the people of this country were against the bailout. Did you also notice that our elected officials did what they wanted to anyway.

In their defence their are just trying to protect us, the ignorant masses. After all they have shown such brilliance and wisdom with their leadership in the past. We should just shut up and let them do what's good for them....errr I mean us... errr I mean the U.S.

It looks like our lawmakers really showed us how much our vote counts.

For the people and by the people, as long as the big corporations agree.

too true...   :furious
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Sandman on October 04, 2008, 01:49:54 PM
Feingold rarely fails to impress me.

If you're not a resident of Wisconsin, he's not there to impress you... but I guess it's a good thing for him that he does. :)
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Bosco123 on October 04, 2008, 05:38:41 PM
Dole voted no.  Burr voted yes.  Odd.
Martinez voted yes, Nelson voted no. Same thing with my state.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Curlew on October 04, 2008, 08:57:32 PM
Boxer and Fienstine = fired
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: mietla on October 04, 2008, 10:13:51 PM

These are ALL the votes. If you voted NO and you see your state senator on this list with YEA behind their name, vote 'em out of office!



yeah, right. Vote Feinstein and Boxer out of office... In California????? You are either nuts or a big time dreamer.

Since I was able to vote I was given a comfort to vote for anyone I choose. Because? ... Because my vote does not matter. I KNOW who will win CA so why bother.

All my votes so far were "not this guy" votes. Never had a chance to vote for someone I like and who has a chance. So... I'm just throwing my protest votes away.

Perhaps, if more folks would be willing to "throw their vote away" something would change. Not until then.

I still do vote. The Propositions is where I still believe my vote can make a difference.


Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Grayeagle on October 04, 2008, 11:50:00 PM
Yanno.. I'd run for congress myself if I knew how to go about it.

I mean .. really.

I'd do better than the majority there just by using common sense.

ie: If I go bankrupt, do I get paid? NO!
..then NO, they shouldnt get paid either.
Next issue.

-GE aka Frank
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 05, 2008, 12:08:53 AM
Boxer and Fienstine = fired

Feinstein has to be one of the lamest senators in the entire congress.  Tom Campbell ran against her 8 years ago, a fiscal conservative but socially liberal republican, and was totally trounced.  I was a student at UC Berkeley at the time, and had never considered voting republican before (had barely considered voting at all), but after he came and spoke to my poli-sci class he gained my support.  The fact is, Feinstein isn't going away. :mad:
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: mietla on October 05, 2008, 12:43:06 AM
you are not kidding. I am comfortably retired at 52. Naturalized citizen (at 27, legally of course) but I really am a part of this nation. Was allowed to LEGALLY  enter in 1982, swore an pledge in 1987. I am not F* xxfcgn.american , I feel American and I AM an American.

Everything I own (to my name) I owe to USA and the rest of you, really. I do not mean cash. I mean the OPPORTUNITY. I've EARNED what I have now. None of you paid a nickel to support me, ever. Took 25+ years but I did it. As a matter of fact many of irresponsible persons/families benefited from what I have contributed.

GOD Bless America. Anyone who can't appreciate this, go live somewhere else. Try it, live it, love it, and then PLEASE STAY THERE.....

rest of you f* losers just don't f &******** know what you have and as as result you do not appreciate it.
Title: Re: Senators that voted "NO" to the bailout plan
Post by: mietla on October 05, 2008, 01:04:26 AM
read above