Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Krusty on October 02, 2008, 10:10:48 AM

Title: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Krusty on October 02, 2008, 10:10:48 AM
So, instead of reworking the G and G-spikes in the 262 like I was hoping, the new patch simply reduces the elevator effectiveness.

So, instead of fixing the issue, they simply remove your options of ever creating that issue. I could not get the wings to snap off in a 550+mph vertical dive with full stick back deflection. I could barely get the frame to stress. I blacked out a lot more but frankly the end result is the elevators are half as effective as they were before.

This de-fangs the 262 in fights. One of (okay let's admit THE ONLY) way a 262 can get kills in a furball with other planes is to pull hard lead deflection on a target while mushing through an accelerated stall (like a P-38 does, you know?) and then ease up off the stick and see if you hit the guy or not, reposition for another attack and repeat.

Now it cannot do that. Now it doesn't have the elevator to do that.


It's been nerfed.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Adonai on October 02, 2008, 10:12:29 AM
ZOMG the 262 lost its man hood!
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Kuhn on October 02, 2008, 10:20:27 AM
And I thought it was just a graphics change. That really sucks. It's only good for buff hunting if that's the case. I haven't been in one since the update. Is it really that noticeable?
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: hitech on October 02, 2008, 10:45:03 AM
BS Meter alert.

At the speeds where you could perform an accelerated stall in the 262, no changes have been made.


HiTech
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Kuhn on October 02, 2008, 10:51:11 AM
BS Meter alert.

At the speeds where you could perform an accelerated stall in the 262, no changes have been made.


HiTech

Nice to hear from the God of AH.<S> Now I feel better.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: TequilaChaser on October 02, 2008, 10:53:13 AM
BS Meter alert.

At the speeds where you could perform an accelerated stall in the 262, no changes have been made.


HiTech

but hitech,   he has like 11,598 more post than you do...he is in the KNOW........... :devil
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: BiPoLaR on October 02, 2008, 10:58:33 AM
I LIKE TURTLES!!!!!!!!! :aok
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Krusty on October 02, 2008, 11:00:09 AM
I'm specifically talking about a range from ... say... 200 to 350mph. Where you're in a furball but not really slowing down to stall out. You have a target, he's about to break away from you. You can't follow the target, but you can pull hard on the stick, get your nose into his flight path, lob some 30mm, and land hits. Now you can't do that "nose skid" (whatever the term for it is).

Accelerated stall may not be the proper term. It's that mush-thing that the P-38 also does where you can pitch the nose up and still maintain your previous direction momentarily as you skid along your previous path.

I was not able to do this against the offline drones last night. Tried a number of times. Climbed to 15k and dove vertically straight down, and could not rip the wingtips of either. Could not get past 6Gs on the meter, it seemed.

Not stating things as clearly as I wanted to, yes. BS? No. Definitely can feel a difference trying to take potshots at drones and definitely feel a difference at top-speed high-Gs (although the latter isn't really going to affect ability to get kills like the former will)
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: hitech on October 02, 2008, 11:20:18 AM

I'm specifically talking about a range from ... say... 200 to 350mph. Where you're in a furball but not really slowing down to stall out. You have a target, he's about to break away from you. You can't follow the target, but you can pull hard on the stick, get your nose into his flight path, lob some 30mm, and land hits. Now you can't do that "nose skid" (whatever the term for it is).

Accelerated stall may not be the proper term. It's that mush-thing that the P-38 also does where you can pitch the nose up and still maintain your previous direction momentarily as you skid along your previous path.

I was not able to do this against the offline drones last night. Tried a number of times. Climbed to 15k and dove vertically straight down, and could not rip the wingtips of either. Could not get past 6Gs on the meter, it seemed.

Not stating things as clearly as I wanted to, yes. BS? No. Definitely can feel a difference trying to take potshots at drones and definitely feel a difference at top-speed high-Gs (although the latter isn't really going to affect ability to get kills like the former will)

Bigger BS Meter alert I would say in the order of 85 KRUSTYs.

Nothing has changed below 320 MPH, and at that speed you will be in a black out before you could stall the plane. So as my original post said, Nothing has changed in the range where you could perform an Accelerated Stall.

Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Adonai on October 02, 2008, 11:22:58 AM
Quote
Bigger BS Meter alert I would say in the order of 85 KRUSTYs.
Hitech *Sniff* that is about the best comment I read on this BBS in many moons  :salute
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Mak333 on October 02, 2008, 11:42:54 AM
BS meter  :aok  :rofl

<S> Hitech!
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: BaldEagl on October 02, 2008, 11:43:09 AM
Bigger BS Meter alert I would say in the order of 85 KRUSTYs.

BS is now officially measured in the Krusty scale!

 :rofl :rofl  :rofl
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: DMBEAR on October 02, 2008, 11:55:18 AM
Babies often bang their little heads until they are unconscious.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: TequilaChaser on October 02, 2008, 11:58:29 AM
I'm specifically talking about a range from ... say... 200 to 350mph. Where you're in a furball but not really slowing down to stall out. You have a target, he's about to break away from you. You can't follow the target, but you can pull hard on the stick, get your nose into his flight path, lob some 30mm, and land hits. Now you can't do that "nose skid" (whatever the term for it is).

Accelerated stall may not be the proper term. It's that mush-thing that the P-38 also does where you can pitch the nose up and still maintain your previous direction momentarily as you skid along your previous path.

I was not able to do this against the offline drones last night. Tried a number of times. Climbed to 15k and dove vertically straight down, and could not rip the wingtips of either. Could not get past 6Gs on the meter, it seemed.

Not stating things as clearly as I wanted to, yes. BS? No. Definitely can feel a difference trying to take potshots at drones and definitely feel a difference at top-speed high-Gs (although the latter isn't really going to affect ability to get kills like the former will)

Krusty, since we got a new update/patch did you by chance considered recalibrating and checking your scaling? to see if it may have went screwy on ya?

just a thought.........
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Bronk on October 02, 2008, 03:10:24 PM
/sarcasm on
Cmon krusty you gonna take that. :furious :furious.
/sarcasm off

Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Shamus on October 02, 2008, 03:40:03 PM
"Accelerated stall may not be the proper term"

I think this may be where you need to target krusty.

shamus
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Fencer51 on October 02, 2008, 04:12:25 PM
but hitech,   he has like 11,598 more post than you do...he is in the KNOW........... :devil

 :rofl
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: scot12b on October 02, 2008, 04:14:31 PM
Bigger BS Meter alert I would say in the order of 85 KRUSTYs.



(http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/3585/plane8zh.gif)  :rock
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: crazyivan on October 02, 2008, 04:18:09 PM
   Krusty  :cry     HT :furious       IN :aok
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Delirium on October 02, 2008, 06:34:44 PM
One of (okay let's admit THE ONLY) way a 262 can get kills in a furball with other planes is to pull hard lead deflection on a target while mushing through an accelerated stall (like a P-38 does, you know?)

ROFL!  :rofl

Wrong on so many levels, it is painful to read.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Bodhi on October 02, 2008, 06:42:02 PM
I am glad that HT addressed the 262 like this.  Too many think they can yank and bank like they are in an F-18 Hornet without blacking out.  That was just not the case during WW2.

I also like the other issue that was addressed, specifically with the new BS Meter.   :lol
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Murdr on October 02, 2008, 07:42:28 PM
Bigger BS Meter alert I would say in the order of 85 KRUSTYs.

Follow up question for the proper measurment reading on the BS Meter...Is this a linear 0 to 100 scale?  Or is it like the Fujita scale where the magnitude is exponential, and there isn't really a maximum limit?  ;)
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: mechanic on October 02, 2008, 07:56:33 PM
has the vator authority been ajusted in anyway at any certain speeds? sounds like something has changed a little some where on the 262... or what?
krusty, as ever collecting a fan club :lol
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Kuhn on October 02, 2008, 08:00:12 PM
Took it for a ride today. It doesn't seem any different when flying it like I usually do. I don't get into dogfights in it very often though. As far as buff bustin goes it seems the same.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: mechanic on October 02, 2008, 08:06:09 PM
maybe in his dive he compressed mildly before trying the stick back, that would give the feeling of a certain degree of nerfing...
Climbed to 15k and dove vertically straight down, and could not rip the wingtips of either. Could not get past 6Gs on the meter, it seemed.

...seems likely. i thought the way HT answered was ambigous, he didnt say it hadnt been changed at all in other aspects, the suspense is far from killing me.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: SD67 on October 03, 2008, 12:23:49 AM
I just KNOW this thread is gonna cost me perks  :mad:
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: RTHolmes on October 03, 2008, 07:18:43 AM
I'm intrigued - what has changed above 320 (ie still in the range Krusty mentioned)?
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Chalenge on October 03, 2008, 10:47:41 AM
The wings are stiffer and thats a good thing. The cannon seems weaker though and I say that because I hit a formation of B26s from an oblique pass and put 3-4 hits in the fuse of all planes with zero effect. Usually all it takes is one hit?
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: hitech on October 03, 2008, 10:54:15 AM
I'm intrigued - what has changed above 320 (ie still in the range Krusty mentioned)?

From the Readme.

Increased Me 262's elevator control forces and max wing structural limits to limit touchy overstresses.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Overlag on October 03, 2008, 11:26:45 AM
ie the faster you go the harder it is to get them to move?
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: RTHolmes on October 03, 2008, 02:06:57 PM
... max wing structural limits to limit touchy overstresses.

excellent  :aok
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: sethipus on October 03, 2008, 02:20:57 PM
The wings are stiffer and thats a good thing. The cannon seems weaker though and I say that because I hit a formation of B26s from an oblique pass and put 3-4 hits in the fuse of all planes with zero effect. Usually all it takes is one hit?

Sometimes on bombers you get lucky and single hits start them on fire or something, but typically it takes multiple hits right next to each other to take the bombers out.  If you put several 30mm rounds into a buff, but spread them out so each one is hitting different parts of the plane, it's not at all uncommon to see the buff fly along as if nothing happened.

That said, quite often at least one buff will blow up in a pass like you describe where you rake all three aircraft with 30mm as you let them fly through your cannon stream.  But sometimes you get an unlucky pass and it doesn't work out.  Oh well, that's when you turn around and take another pass.  ;-)  At that point they should be pretty soft, too.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Entr0py on October 03, 2008, 02:42:09 PM
Follow up question for the proper measurment reading on the BS Meter...Is this a linear 0 to 100 scale?  Or is it like the Fujita scale where the magnitude is exponential, and there isn't really a maximum limit?  ;)


Darn, thats the 1st thing I thought when I read that.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Chalenge on October 03, 2008, 04:37:38 PM
Sometimes on bombers you get lucky and single hits start them on fire or something, but typically it takes multiple hits right next to each other to take the bombers out.  If you put several 30mm rounds into a buff, but spread them out so each one is hitting different parts of the plane, it's not at all uncommon to see the buff fly along as if nothing happened.

That said, quite often at least one buff will blow up in a pass like you describe where you rake all three aircraft with 30mm as you let them fly through your cannon stream.  But sometimes you get an unlucky pass and it doesn't work out.  Oh well, that's when you turn around and take another pass.  ;-)  At that point they should be pretty soft, too.

Except when its a dive bombing enemy formation after a fleet and you dont want to risk your 262 near the puffy stuff. Twice before the patch I was wounded by 'friendly' ack when I was attacking enemies near our cv.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: moot on October 03, 2008, 06:45:25 PM
From the Readme.

Increased Me 262's elevator control forces and max wing structural limits to limit touchy overstresses.
So the 262 is now actualy more manuverable and sturdier than before..
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Kweassa on October 03, 2008, 06:50:55 PM
Quote
So the 262 is now actualy more manuverable and sturdier than before..

That's my take as well.

"Increased control forces" should mean HTC increased the control authority of the plane at higher speeds. I think Krusty simply misinterpreted this oppositely.

Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Chalenge on October 04, 2008, 01:53:25 AM
It also doesnt seem to be as easy to hurt as before. Yesterday I had two of them BNZ me and I hit them both in the intakes (two hits each engine) and I mean right on the 'flow inducer' and it didnt do any damage.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: moot on October 04, 2008, 01:54:27 PM
It also doesnt seem to be as easy to hurt as before. Yesterday I had two of them BNZ me and I hit them both in the intakes (two hits each engine) and I mean right on the 'flow inducer' and it didnt do any damage.
film..
That's my take as well.

"Increased control forces" should mean HTC increased the control authority of the plane at higher speeds. I think Krusty simply misinterpreted this oppositely.
It does read like 'increased required elevator stick forces' if you tilt your thinking to the side..
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: 1pLUs44 on October 04, 2008, 04:39:49 PM
BS Meter alert.

At the speeds where you could perform an accelerated stall in the 262, no changes have been made.


HiTech

uhoh, looks like HT called this one :noid
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Bruv119 on October 05, 2008, 03:01:22 PM
after giving her a run out I will say that at high speed the elevators have been neutered.


I didnt notice much of a difference whilst slow but who flies a 262 slow?


I wont be using it for horde busting anymore  :cry.

You just can't make the shots i'm used to.  If the change resulted from whining about wings ripping off I never managed to pull mine off.  Just bad piloting.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: mechanic on October 05, 2008, 09:12:12 PM

I didnt notice much of a difference whilst slow but who flies a 262 slow?



ME! ME!

i also have about 17 perks left.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: **CLONE155** on October 05, 2008, 10:17:44 PM
I only use the 262 to bomber kill... or if i find some one sleeping and come up there six :aok
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Xasthur on October 05, 2008, 11:45:35 PM
after giving her a run out I will say that at high speed the elevators have been neutered.


I didnt notice much of a difference whilst slow but who flies a 262 slow?


I wont be using it for horde busting anymore  :cry.

You just can't make the shots i'm used to.  If the change resulted from whining about wings ripping off I never managed to pull mine off.  Just bad piloting.

Eep. That's bad  :frown:
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: jon on October 06, 2008, 07:16:52 AM
a couple of days ago i was in my f4u1d rtb about out of go go juice when i spotted a low slow 262. i dove and got an engine smoking but didnt persue . he came after me. due to lack of fuel i was backed off the throttle. when he attacked i turned to merge then would turn home after. several missde bnz attempts later he went slow and we went to dogfighting my prob was i was out of fuel with no e. and he eventually got me. BUT he was flying the bird well below 320 and was did a great job of turning it. porked? I would say NO!
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Krusty on October 06, 2008, 10:07:27 AM
Eep. That's bad  :frown:

And yet I get derisive comments from long-time forum members and HT himself when I say the same thing that other people are now noticing (now that I mentioned it and they checked for themselves).

Funny, how that double standard works.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: shreck on October 06, 2008, 02:15:16 PM
BAH! I watched Delerium pull wings of at about 550 yesterday! I've flown it allot since update and find it the same!  ;)! Stop tryin to find a fault where there is NONE!!  :aok
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: BaldEagl on October 06, 2008, 02:39:08 PM
I didnt notice much of a difference whilst slow but who flies a 262 slow?

I do.  Maybe that's why I lose so many of them.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Stratocaster on October 06, 2008, 02:49:27 PM
always something to complain/whine/moan about! Sometimes the feeling is so strong you even make things up so you can complain more! change? 'Aint nothing stays the same... unchained! and you hit the ground running.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: hitech on October 06, 2008, 02:53:12 PM
BS Meter increases again to 87 Krusties.

Who said the effect of turning changed for the 262 below 350 MPH besides you? Or did I miss something in this thread?

HiTech




And yet I get derisive comments from long-time forum members and HT himself when I say the same thing that other people are now noticing (now that I mentioned it and they checked for themselves).

Funny, how that double standard works.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Die Hard on October 06, 2008, 04:52:46 PM
I guess customer bashing is measured in HITECH units? :huh
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: splitatom on October 06, 2008, 05:19:18 PM
i have never seen hitech ever post something on the bulitin board or ever heard of the BS meter or the word krustles
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Babalonian on October 06, 2008, 06:19:56 PM
I guess customer bashing is measured in HITECH units? :huh

Then what's the unit of measurement for a customer bashing/defaming his product in an attempt to have specific changes to the product that that customer wanted?
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Bronk on October 06, 2008, 06:21:49 PM
Then what's the unit of measurement for a customer bashing/defaming his product in an attempt to have specific changes to the product that that customer wanted?


Haven't you been paying attention? It's called Krusties. :aok
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Overlag on October 06, 2008, 06:32:12 PM
BS Meter increases again to 87 Krusties.

HiTech


Dont you think you are breaking your own rules doing this?

btw my post is breakin rule also, and therefor is rated at 100 Krusty's
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: SD67 on October 06, 2008, 08:33:12 PM
WFIW I pulled the wingtips off a 262 the other day in a hard pullup.
I really cannot see any discernable change.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: TequilaChaser on October 06, 2008, 09:23:23 PM
Krusty, since we got a new update/patch did you by chance considered recalibrating and checking your scaling? to see if it may have went screwy on ya?

just a thought.........

well, Krusty, I thought that this 2nd post from me over rode the 1st one where I gave you a slight ribbing...........was supposed to be all in good humor.........did not mean for you to be offended by it
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: mechanic on October 07, 2008, 10:57:12 AM
Dont you think you are breaking your own rules doing this?

btw my post is breakin rule also, and therefor is rated at 100 Krusty's


if you make the rules you are above them thats why dominance is the ultimate goal of all life as we know it.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: shreck on October 07, 2008, 10:18:47 PM

if you make the rules you are above them thats why dominance is the ultimate goal of all life as we know it.

AH! krusty is a troll and looks for fault angle in everything!! He seems to be a pain in the booty for HI TECH,   He also HOs like a 2 bit street wh---------ooooooooo----------re !  :uhoh
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: mechanic on October 08, 2008, 09:18:26 AM
 Krusty is not a HO dweeb, he usualy flies some crap like a c202, why would he ho? Actualy he holds the squad record in the c202 of 12 kills in one sortie.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: BnZ on October 08, 2008, 09:26:37 AM

if you make the rules you are above them thats why dominance is the ultimate goal of all life as we know it.

FINALLY, someone comes right out and admits it. THANK YOU!  :salute :devil :salute :devil :salute :devil :rofl
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Tr0jan on October 08, 2008, 10:02:55 AM
im INtrested to see what BS Hitech comes up with next :P
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: shreck on October 08, 2008, 10:20:06 AM
Krusty is not a HO dweeb, he usualy flies some crap like a c202, why would he ho? Actualy he holds the squad record in the c202 of 12 kills in one sortie.

LOL he HOd me sooooo many times in one night I was laughing uncontrolably! Actualy 109E is one of his prefered and along with the emil he was HOing the crap out of me in a pony also!! While I was base defense in a ki! All the while saying he gives no mercy to better turning rides LOL, So I see your "no ho dweed " and raise you a HOPUTTZ!   :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: mechanic on October 08, 2008, 10:23:14 AM
 :rofl

Curse you Krusty, flying your dweeb 109E and bullying all the honourable P51 air masters.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: shreck on October 08, 2008, 11:23:59 AM
:rofl

Curse you Krusty, flying your dweeb 109E and bullying all the honourable P51 air masters.

Actually my choice of words was incorrect! He was in a pony and later in his emil! HOing like a 2 bit street walker with both!!  :aok  Got it now ?
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: bongaroo on October 08, 2008, 12:38:24 PM
In?
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Bronk on October 08, 2008, 04:55:55 PM
Krusty is not a HO dweeb, he usualy flies some crap like a c202, why would he ho? Actualy he holds the squad record in the c202 of 12 kills in one sortie.
Ingame Krusty is a class act from my experiences with him. It is a wish of mine he'd let that bleed over here. I'm being sincere batty.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: mechanic on October 08, 2008, 07:32:55 PM
i always say it takes one to know one bronk, S!
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Chalenge on October 10, 2008, 06:09:15 PM
From what I have read on the 262 from historical records the plane in AHII performs too well but the way it flies in the game is in keeping with the way that most planes fly in game. Let me explain...

In AHII you can fly a plane so steeply in a dive that if it were the RW the prop would over speed and be wrecked. Same for the engine.

In the RW the 262 had to be trimmed nose heavy and if you trimmed the plane for turn fighting you would automatically stall in a turn. In dive tests the 262 would go out of control above mach 0.86 and higher speeds while nose down would lead to a condition the pilot could not recover from (the plane would continue to nose down until red out of the pilot happened or the plane fell apart regardless of power/control inputs). If you move the throttles too quickly from anything less then 4000 rpm to max rpm of 7000 rpm would cause cavitation and if not re-throttled would eventually lead to power loss altogether.

I think 262 pilots in AH should be happy with what they have!
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Xasthur on October 10, 2008, 11:54:28 PM
I took the 262 out last night and it seemed fine. I don't think I got above 10k the whole time and I kept it quick, turning hard and I didn't have any problems. I bagged 9 without a re-arm and I got a few assists too (which was more of a concern than the turning ability, to be honest) and most were fighters, a few low Bostons and a B-25 or two. I was still able to rope a few fighters and turn well at all speeds. Seems ok to me. The reduced forward view is a bigger problem in my opinon. The 262 definitely still has fangs and is still nearly untouchable.
Title: Re: 262 nerfed?
Post by: Furball on October 11, 2008, 05:13:08 AM
Bigger BS Meter alert I would say in the order of 85 KRUSTYs.

 :lol