Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Die Hard on October 07, 2008, 09:26:20 AM
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Angus, you're Icelandic right?
I heard on the radio that your entire country is in on the verge of bankruptcy and that the Russians have offered "emergency loans". Are you ok? What's the story over there?
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I heard that because of a couple of Wall street friends they now have run away inflation. :O
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The Russian emergency loans also have fine print indicating a takeover ala "Red Storm Rising".
"It's the end of the world as we know it" - R.E.M. seems like a fitting song for the times we live in.
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The Russian emergency loans also have fine print indicating a takeover ala "Red Storm Rising".
"It's the end of the world as we know it" - R.E.M. seems like a fitting song for the times we live in.
Are they handing out passports too? :D
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Angus, you're Icelandic right?
I heard on the radio that your entire country is in on the verge of bankruptcy and that the Russians have offered "emergency loans". Are you ok? What's the story over there?
The loans have a few stipulations. Putin gets a nice house in Reykjavik, and a submarine base goes in the harbor.
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The news are coming to the surface, but what I can give you in short is that the banks went wild and gambling, made insane profit (the banks roll-over is many times more than the national production) and then got their nose in the pudding. They screamed for the government to help, and the government has now (finally, - slow bastards) made emergency law which basically put the naughty bankers under gov's control.
(it is a right wing gov BTW)
So, the gov. has been looking for loan money (in order to pull the system back into order) and the USA, EU and Scandinavia went deaf, but the Russkies (I thought they had enough trouble) are game.
This is like the USA in 1929, people have got a "no" for money withdrawal from their bank.
This is all unfolding, but looks as if we are not the only ones. The ecosystem and currency is small, so bear in mind that swings are fast, - think of it as agile, and that may also be a benefit. The Eu and USA are not so stable right now.
The missus (She's a German!) has to do a radio interview early in the morning (German channel) and meanwhile I am babysitting and looking at stuff....like this.
There are too many "wise" bankers here that I would like to put on the BBQ by the way, for I (and the other farmers) saw this one coming.
I'll keep you updated.
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I heard today that the British are PO'ed at you now. Gordon Brown himself made public threats about "sanctions" against Iceland. What's going on?
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Could be to do with "Icesave" an Icelandic savings bank which has 300,000 UK depositors. This has been closed and the UK depositors have been told by the Iceland government that they have lost the lot, they wont honour deposits (this after they stopped all withdrawals). The Icelandic compensation scheme appears bankrupt as well.
Anyway, the UK Government has said it will honour the deposits for UK people
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USA went deaf? How's this our fault? If you've missed the headlines, we're a bit busy putting our house back in order
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I think the US is in the tank but the rest of the world has fallen out or getting ready to fall of the bottom of that tank
wait til your buds in russia start something somewhere to drive oil back up in an attempt to save their own skins - then it gets REAL interesting REAL quick
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(http://o.aolcdn.com/photo-hub/news_gallery/5/7/579818/1223462289503.JPEG)
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So, the gov. has been looking for loan money (in order to pull the system back into order) and the USA, EU and Scandinavia went deaf, but the Russkies (I thought they had enough trouble) are game.
Not correct. We and i think some of the other scandinavian countries have offered help too.
The norwegian central bank offered a loan of 500 million euros back in may and the offer still stands. Its your government that has not wanted to take advantage of that yet. On tuesday Our PM spoke with yours but he again did not want to take that option yet. Your pm also said that he was not happy with the international community but that did not include scandinavia and russia.
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News update.
The scandinavians lent a hand, and the USSR.
This Icesave deal comes on the news now, there will be an update at 16:00 about it.
Basically the question is whether the government is the bank's guarantor or not, but the numbers are humongous, and if the govt needs to cash out the bank, the country will go bankrupt.
On the odd side, this particular bank basically squashed my business and has the farm on auction in december...maybe. I completely lost opinion of those guys in 2006, well all of them :furious
BTW, the Russkies are lending 4 BILLION euros. Maybe they take over the airbase :devil
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Maybe the Russkies will take over. :noid :O
Angus, That sux.
I love Iceland, but I cannot stand Björk.
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You're losing your farm? :(
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Actually it doesn't belong to me, lost it already, but I still run it, - a bit complicated.
Anyway, while I have no sympathy with those whitecollars who screwed up (saw it coming, they didn't), the situation is bad. Well, it seems to be bad in many more places, but our system and currency is small, so we move faster.
This will touch most of the middle and upper ones econamically, - we who are already poor and are used to it shrug our shoulders and carry on...maybe like this :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jag7oTemldY
hehe.
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At the video
LMFAO x10000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Not correct. We and i think some of the other scandinavian countries have offered help too.
The norwegian central bank offered a loan of 500 million euros back in may and the offer still stands. Its your government that has not wanted to take advantage of that yet. On tuesday Our PM spoke with yours but he again did not want to take that option yet. Your pm also said that he was not happy with the international community but that did not include scandinavia and russia.
Thank you for this Nilsen, I am going to forward this to an MP today.
Btw, our government should IMHO be fired. The opposition has been warning them since last winter, and now they're doing mostly what the opposition proposed. Oddly enough, the lefty party has been stating this for 4 years, and sarcastically the Russkies offer the aid.
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Actually it doesn't belong to me, lost it already, but I still run it, - a bit complicated.
I think i told you not to bet the farm on armwrestling that old lady at the pub :D
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Naa, it was actually a co-op execution by the bank and my relatives, but "my" part was bought by friendlies and now everybody is joustling through lawyers while I milk my cow.
The crazy policy the banks had actually hurt me, - I ran a business with a low return, but a real one, and they went all for the high numbers. Doesn't work forever leaving production in depression while lending endlessly on imports & consumption for a temporary profit. So in short, they were all for lending for new cars etc (low dollar at the time), new buildings and so on, while production was paying.
With the krona at a completely fake height we managed to import twice the value of export (or so), - that cannot go on for long.
And the news from abroad are shocking, - never new that their gamble was that big.
So, now the govt is running the show, and I am buing a russian dictionary to read while I milk my cows ;)
Are you a banker Nilsen?
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Maybe the Russkies will take over. :noid :O
Angus, That sux.
I love Iceland, but I cannot stand Björk.
Hehe, I went to school with her. Don't like her music, but she was a delightful girl and much prettier than you see on tv.
Small country....
Have you been here?
And Nilsen, would you happen to have something quotable about that Norwegian deal?
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Went to school with her? Was she one of those odd kids in theater? I needed a headache medicine when she sang at the Olympics.
I stopped at the Keflavik Int. I wasn’t able to leave the airport.
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Hehe, I went to school with her. Don't like her music, but she was a delightful girl and much prettier than you see on tv.
Small country....
Have you been here?
And Nilsen, would you happen to have something quotable about that Norwegian deal?
Im not a banker, but i have alot of savings IN the bank collecting a nice interest these days. Im getting between 6,8 and 9,2% :)
If you read norwegian you can atleast have a look at this one: http://www.fvn.no/nyheter/utenriks/article617486.ece
The part where your PM said Scandinavia had not let you down is in some other paper. Think it was Nettavisen.no but there are just so many storys about the current issue in all the major papers i read so finding that quote could take a few hours.
Direct quote from the site "I mai
– Allerede i mai snakket vi om den krevende situasjonen på Island. I etterkant av dette ble den islandske og norske sentralbanken enige om at Norges Bank skulle stille en låneadgang på 500 millioner euro (i overkant av 4 milliarder kroner), sier Stoltenberg til aftenposten.no.
– Dette er en adgang til å låne penger, framforhandlet av sentralbankene, men støttet av regjeringene. Så langt er den ikke benyttet, og Haarde ga ikke uttrykk for at det er mer aktuelt å bruke pengene nå, sier Stoltenberg.
Statsminister Haarde mener imidlertid det gir Island en trygghet i låneadgangen, selv om den ikke benyttes. De to statsministrene har samarbeidet i en årrekke, og Stoltenberg framhevet den store norske interessen for islandsk økonomi da han snakket med Haarde tirsdag kveld."
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Odd, yes, but very nice, and rather quiet!
We are the same age, our fathers were both electricians, and good friends. Her dad was one of the pallbearers in my dad's funeral :frown:
Sad you didn't get any further than Keflavik, - the real stuff starts after an hours drive ;)
Next time! The Krona is low, so we're turning into a cheap tourist country. I will be selling donkey rides near the airfield :devil
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Oh, ty Nilsen.
I did try and contact my friend the MP, I have not seen this in the media here, but it may have slipped me.
BTW, our PM (whick I'd like to sack) is half Norse.
But aren't we all....
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Angus,
I am still "in country" drop me a line and I'll bring the beer :). You have my Ice simmi number ??
My brother has some in IceSave so we'll see how that pans out.
Sparks
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Oh, ty Nilsen.
I did try and contact my friend the MP, I have not seen this in the media here, but it may have slipped me.
BTW, our PM (whick I'd like to sack) is half Norse.
But aren't we all....
Yeah. Same people only different language really :)
What do you think about Iceland going over to using the Euro after this? May not be such a bad idea and make the currency abit more robust vs the krone. Ive even sometimes wondered if we should go that way even if it sorta sucks to give up the traditions of the krone.
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They actually finally "tied" the Krona, but the rope is not holding that well. It did do some though.
The problem with the Euro is that you'd have to join the EU as well as fulfilling some code of stability etc. So, there is no jumping of the boat in the rough sea, so to speak.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I have 2 theories:
1. After waiting this off (with success?), speak with the Brits, try to hook up on the sterling.
2. For banks in profit, a ballast in Gold+Silver should be a mandatory up to a certain%
Our banks were making "air" profit and went over the top, silly fools.
We do have some 3 things in our benefit today now, so maybe things aren't all that bad, since things seem to be going down the drain everywhere.
1: The Russkies. (And military accommodation has been aired :uhoh)
2: The smallness of the economical system. It's unstable, but moves fast.
3: We still have lots of fish, While the EU has dried up the North sea (cod), we have lots and lots. With a historically low currency, any increase in export is big.
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I think the European countries lost their identity when most switched to the Euro.
I was in Germany in August and used the new currency (new to me). I miss the mark. Swiss still uses the Franc and I am happy they grew some and stuck with the currency.
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Well, the Euro isn't quite that bad. Hasn't it rather done better than expected?
Now the Brits have the biggest independent currency of a EU nation. The Swiss are not in the EU I think....
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I think the European countries lost their identity when most switched to the Euro.
I was in Germany in August and used the new currency (new to me). I miss the mark. Swiss still uses the Franc and I am happy they grew some and stuck with the currency.
My aunt and her family lives in Italy and they hated the change for the first year. All prices on everything got rounded up, but as income also got rounded up the dust from that settled. Now they really like the Euro with all the benefits it has for trade and travel. A large currency like that also soaks up bumps abit easyer and prevents rapid inflation in a country when there is a crisis. They (and they live there) dont feel that they have lost any identity at all just because their currency looks different. IF we start selling our oil, gas and refined products in euros (they are debating that) and not dollar then I too would like Norway to jump on the Euro.
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Swiss still uses the Franc and I am happy they grew some and stuck with the currency.
The reason the Swiss still use the Franc is that they - like Norway - are not a member of the European Union. Nothing to do with 'growing some'. Denmark, Sweden and the UK were the only European Union members not to join at the time of its introduction and are still resolutely using their own currencies. Many of the countries that have become members since then are also still using their own currencies - in many cases because they have not yet met the financial conditions for joining.
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Nilsen, AFAIK you don't jump on the Euro without joining the EU. And it will not happen in a day.
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Not correct. We and i think some of the other scandinavian countries have offered help too.
The norwegian central bank offered a loan of 500 million euros back in may and the offer still stands. Its your government that has not wanted to take advantage of that yet. On tuesday Our PM spoke with yours but he again did not want to take that option yet. Your pm also said that he was not happy with the international community but that did not include scandinavia and russia.
Please can i have the 500m instead?
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nonono...my turn. The banks have been stripping me since the 80's, so it's my turn now, but I will invite you to a party where we eat horsemeat and sing.
The odd side is that I had a "death" sentence on the business from one bank manager and boss by another for the duration of about 20 years, and I'm still plodding on while the white-collar guys have been sacked one after the other, or their firms going bankrupt :mad:
I recall saying to a couple of "bosses" that declined my busines proposal that "Well, I'll be doing my job when you don't have yours", and it did indeed come true.
Now I am almost chuckling over the fate of the "hotrods"
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Maybe Iceland joining the united Kingdom could work.
You Fish that cod for all of our Chip shops and we can let you come see the queen once a year for a free holiday. :aok
Bruv for PM! :D Furball can be my foreign secretary.
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nonono...my turn. The banks have been stripping me since the 80's, so it's my turn now, but I will invite you to a party where we eat horsemeat and sing.
The odd side is that I had a "death" sentence on the business from one bank manager and boss by another for the duration of about 20 years, and I'm still plodding on while the white-collar guys have been sacked one after the other, or their firms going bankrupt :mad:
I recall saying to a couple of "bosses" that declined my busines proposal that "Well, I'll be doing my job when you don't have yours", and it did indeed come true.
Now I am almost chuckling over the fate of the "hotrods"
Hunt them down and offer them a job. Im sure you could use dirt cheap labour, and seeing a polished guy in a suit knee deep in pig poo is priceless :lol
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but I will invite you to a party where we eat horsemeat and sing.
Mmmmm horsemeat *drool* :aok
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nonono...my turn. The banks have been stripping me since the 80's, so it's my turn now, but I will invite you to a party where we eat horsemeat and sing.
Will the German farm girls working for you be there? We will need someone to serve the beer in low cut tops, and i don't think Bruv and Nilsen will quite fit the role.
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I have moobs does that count?
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I read that UK Local Government has £100 million+ on deposit with Icelandic banks, wonder if they will see that again :(
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News.
Our biggest bank has been nationalized and they're sacking 33% of the staff.
Maybe I can get highly educated bankers to shovel the dung and serve the (home brewed) beverages with the salted horsemeat with food as pay :devil
I'll make sure to use the nine-tail cat if they're slow :devil
The British crisis seems to be less than thought (THAT bank) since there were quite some assets in the pool, and it remains to be seen to how much selling price they go. Careful selling is better, as well as selling under better conditions than depression.
fediddleing bankers :furious
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What a mess.
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The British crisis seems to be less than thought
Estimates now that UK local authorities have £1 BILLION deposits with Icelandic Banks.
Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7660438.stm)
Thats scarey.
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Yeah that's quite serious, my council has £13 million tied up with Icelandic banks and plymouth city coucil is poor enough as it is.
Glad i'm not one of those who has personal savings tied up with them, i heard on the tv that there is an estimated £4 billion of UK personal savings tied up in icelandic banks.
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Here is one of the main guns from Landsbankinn :noid
http://www.forbes.com/static/bill2005/LIR229H.html?passListId=10&passYear=2005&passListType=Person&uniqueId=229H&datatype=Person
Doesn't seem to be broke....
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BTW, apparently the British communities didn't have money stuck in the "icesave" system. It was "Heritage", which belongs to the same bank, so :furious
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Even more. The systems in many countries are shaking. The far east, the USA (who now needs a new decimal digit on their debt's clock) and several banks in Europe.
The most stable is...Canada ;)
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I think the European countries lost their identity when most switched to the Euro.
I was in Germany in August and used the new currency (new to me). I miss the mark. Swiss still uses the Franc and I am happy they grew some and stuck with the currency.
I also thought like that in 2002 when Finnish Mark was replaced by Euro. I kept on converting prices back to Marks for some years, but nowadays it makes no sense anymore. The Euro is teh money now, and the possible lost national pride has recovered :)
The Euro is much better when traveling in Europe. Just imagine if every US state had their own currency :O. Now if only the Swedes would come to their senses and ditch their crowns ;)
Angus,
great to hear that there is some light in the end of the tunnel. I just read in our local papers that your crowns were not being exchanged in most banks anymore :confused:, the rate was so unstable, or something. However some Islandic banks, I can think of a name Glitnir(?), have come over here in past few years, and I suppose they still exchanged crowns.
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Just now in TV news: The Finnish Rata (financial supervision) has frozen all asset transfers in Kaupthing Finnish branch office. Finns have about 110 Meur savings in that bank.
http://www.fin-fsa.fi/Eng/FIN-FSA_News/Press_releases/10_2008.htm
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It does make sense to have a currency that makes it a lot easier to get are around Europe. But I still believe that all the countries that went in on that idea lost there identity.
Having different currency when I came back to the states was cool to have. I collect of coins and some paper money.
The one thing I didn’t like about the euro was the size of the dang things. The €500 on down to the €50 are freaking hUGe and didn’t fit in my wallet LOL!!
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Just now in TV news: The Finnish Rata (financial supervision) has frozen all asset transfers in Kaupthing Finnish branch office. Finns have about 110 Meur savings in that bank.
http://www.fin-fsa.fi/Eng/FIN-FSA_News/Press_releases/10_2008.htm
So will you and your loved one be going out for Kylmäsavustettu lohi tonight? :)
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So will you and your loved one be going out for Kylmäsavustettu lohi tonight? :)
LOL.. nope :) I have not put any of my modest savings to any of those "new" Islandic banks.
... oops. I read "out of". But no anyways. The loved ones are already sleeping at this time.
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ahhh... go wake them up with "Apocalyptica" & give them some lohi :D :devil
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/Tajutondarra/thanks_mff.jpg)
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And now the Japs are getting into trouble too :(
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The Russian emergency loans also have fine print indicating a takeover ala "Red Storm Rising".
"It's the end of the world as we know it" - R.E.M. seems like a fitting song for the times we live in.
I like "What's the frequency Kenneth" better. It has a funnier back story.
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And now the Japs are getting into trouble too :(
lol, the pc police are coming for j00!
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320308801162
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320308801162
lmfao!!!!!!!!!
Description Seller assumes all responsibility for listing this item.
Item Specifics
""Condition:
Used ""
""PLEASE NOTE: GREENLAND AND Björk ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS AUCTION!""
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Pallero I'm not going to bid unless Bjork comes with the deal. :furious
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The situation sounds like Sigur Ros songs: very very sad.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320308801162
(http://www.classiccarestate.com/images/sold.gif)
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The red letters were appropriate
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The Russian emergency loans also have fine print indicating a takeover ala "Red Storm Rising".
"It's the end of the world as we know it" - R.E.M. seems like a fitting song for the times we live in.
You need to drop all that "Red" crap.USSR is no more,you won,get over it.
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in another 40 years, when we're sure the commies ain't running the show again..
..like they are now.
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Russia is not to be underestimated, nor the chess-playing ability.
Putin's move in this affair is very clever, very very clever.
And in our case, already the Norwegians are worrying about the Russians "moving" into Scandinavia like this..
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stop you guys... politics are icky.
lazs
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in another 40 years, when we're sure the commies ain't running the show again..
..like they are now.
If you look for an enemy you will always find one.
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one can only hope.
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Update.
The govt seems to have made enough deals to save the day. There are deals with the Brits, the Dutch, the Scandinavians, and today their committee arrives in Russia for a 3-day meeting session.
The banks are all now under govt control (emergency law), and their foreign assets will be sold to pay off their debts, - I belive they will not be run in other countries no more.
What basically happened is that they ran out of loose money and went sideways with humongous losses to British and Dutch funds, and due to international law/contract the Icelandic govt was responsible for the payback, which is many times the GNP! However there are also impressive assets.
So, meanwhile our young business cannons still have their jets and yachts....
They were not to be trusted (The govt banks were put into private hands just a few years ago).
Now, since I just found out I was one of the guarantors, I'd like a jet please :D
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Update.
The govt seems to have made enough deals to save the day. There are deals with the Brits, the Dutch, the Scandinavians, and today their committee arrives in Russia for a 3-day meeting session.
The banks are all now under govt control (emergency law), and their foreign assets will be sold to pay off their debts, - I belive they will not be run in other countries no more.
What basically happened is that they ran out of loose money and went sideways with humongous losses to British and Dutch funds, and due to international law/contract the Icelandic govt was responsible for the payback, which is many times the GNP! However there are also impressive assets.
So, meanwhile our young business cannons still have their jets and yachts....
They were not to be trusted (The govt banks were put into private hands just a few years ago).
Now, since I just found out I was one of the guarantors, I'd like a jet please :D
(http://womensairandspacemuseum.com/eshop/images/pan%20am%201.jpg)
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Maybe I'd want the yacht after all...
(http://www.superyachttimes.com/images/3/121/main_568x418.jpg)
This is the one....
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BTW, the "foreign" bank affairs of the Icelandic banks can ironically be compared with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI
(There's par1 and part2)
Enjoy :devil
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And the tycoon behind of a good part of this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076699/The-devils-enjoying-days-Hell--billionaire-blonde-wife-friends-helped-bring-Iceland-brink.html
They got rich originally on food stores, then somehow using Enron-tactics to gobble up firms, first in the country, then moving out.
The profit was never enough, and this family from old (his father, food store owner and her father, same) have been stabbing at the countries agriculture for years, since imports are somewhat restricted.
Well, the farmers are as bankrupt as they were, and people are emptying the stores of import goods.
I feel happy to be a farmer, and have some difficulties not chuckling over what those tycoons are being hit with :devil
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Ya done good Angus.. kitchen table economics works; always has. Hope you come outta this ok. Seems the markets are coming up a bit here... but the day ain't over yet.
Watching the Markets here has higher TV ratings than NASCAR.. goes round 'n round and even more crashes per hour.
;)
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Kitchen table economy? That would be similar to farmer's economy, since the common farmer was shaking his head a long time ago over imports being much more than exports WHILE our currency was overrated. That cannot work for long...I guess.
And I could never understand where those paperboys got their money from. Now I do, but it yet remains to be explained where the money went.
Arrrfffff.
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Yup.. here 'kitchen table economics' generally refers to simple, common sense fiscal habits.. like, 'don't spend more than you earn'. The problem for most working folks on tight budgets as been that the cost of living (and inflation) goes up while wages do not.
Those crazy mortgages and wild credit card spending... that's not 'kitchen table economics'. ;)
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One big mistake they did here after unleashing the banks some years back, was to constantly jack up the interest rates in order to hold back consumption.
It didn't work, since that due to the insane rates, all paper pushes made insane money while it was a burden on businesses and houseowners that had loans in a certain range.
If you eat your cow, she won't milk.....you may have nice beef untill it's finished.
So, due to that, everybody has some trouble.
Consumption from my standpoint was crazy, and I, being on the low end of the wallet could see that very clearly.
Town is only half a mile away, so I go shopping by bike, bring the kids around the same way etc, - it sums up running cars for short distances. That said, my car is dead, so I don't even have one, but the missus does and that's enough.
People made fun of that with lines like "why don't you get yourself a proper 4WD" etc. My reply was "I am fit enough not to need tons of steel to move my ar$e one mile".
Now I meet the same ones when tanking their big cars and ask (with an evil grin): "What's the damage this time?" :devil
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HOORAYYYYY!!!
The stock markets are back up. Everything is fine. Phew :aok
Nothing to see here people, please keep moving :rolleyes:
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European markets took a jump. What's up in USA and far east?
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Same.. up dramatically so far.
Could be the dead cat bounce.
Since 99% of the folks on main street equate the stock markets to the 'economy', everybody feels much better.
Reality is something else again.
It ain't over.
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Well, that jump is suspiciously high...well we'll see...
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Up 10% here today. Still a long way to go before its back to where it was but thats ok. Im expecting a slight dump again tomorrow when some want to secure todays wins but thats normal too.
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one can only hope.
Of course,its not like you gonna fight next war.
BTW.To be clear,it's Iceland asked Russia for help.
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That is confirmed.
I'm still a bit struck that they didn't accept the Norwegian loan in the spring though, it would have been better to start earlier. Norwegians do have a hand in today though as well as the international currency fund/bank.
BTW, we do some trade with Russia, and did quite some with the USSR DURING the cold war. My first 3 cars were Ladas, my shotgun is Baikal etc etc. The USSR bought fish mostly, and when the curtain fell, they still bought fish. Back in the late 90's I worked in a fish factory, and of a months catch, it all went to Russia and Japan, in some 50-50 %.
Here is a new news update:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7670808.stm
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News update.
Our long beyond last consumption date government has resigned.
At least something is happening :D
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Congrats! Hope you get a better one :)
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Looks like we're getting a left government clapped together in a hurry and elections in may.
Their agenda looks ok to me.
A point of interest for a Norwegian is that those guys have a good connection with Norse politicians, and when the crisis was evident, they offered the government to lead a committee to Norway to negotiate about some aid. The offer was turned down.
Norse politicians and/or experts have been lecturing here recently about the possibility of Iceland joining the EU. That is something I am nervous about. Iceland and Norway should IMHO both stay out and tighten their bonds. IMHO Greenland-Iceland-Faroes-Norway should form their own zone.
Iceland joining the EU must look bad to the Norse, for it means that the control over our resources goes to Brusselles, so you guys would get EU as a western neighbour.
I told my wife that if we join the EU, I want to move out of the country, so you can sort of see my opinion on it. :devil
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Im not very keen on the EU either. Having the Euro _could_ be nice. There are severl issues with joining the EU that i dont like, but having to share more resources *cough* oil *cough* fish is not something i like. We pay enough as it is for beeng part of the EEA.
Im guessing you want more control over your resources too. I know the american government like that fact that we are not a part of the EU and im guessing they feel the same way about Iceland staying out.
Euro = hmm yes at times i feel it would be a good thing
EU beaurocracy = notsomuch
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Im not very keen on the EU either. Having the Euro _could_ be nice. There are severl issues with joining the EU that i dont like, but having to share more resources *cough* oil *cough* fish is not something i like. We pay enough as it is for beeng part of the EEA.
Im guessing you want more control over your resources too. I know the american government like that fact that we are not a part of the EU and im guessing they feel the same way about Iceland staying out.
Euro = hmm yes at times i feel it would be a good thing
EU beaurocracy = notsomuch
One of the problems with the Euro is that it means you have to go to a one size fits all solution: that size is the German and French side - everyone else just has to lump it.
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One of the problems with the Euro is that it means you have to go to a one size fits all solution: that size is the German and French side - everyone else just has to lump it.
Biggest problem with it is that its not available unless you are a full EU member. Its prolly only a matter of time before we join, but im hoping we can hold off for another couple of decades.
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One of the problems with the Euro is that it means you have to go to a one size fits all solution: that size is the German and French side - everyone else just has to lump it.
Do you know what this means?
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Im not very keen on the EU either. Having the Euro _could_ be nice. There are severl issues with joining the EU that i dont like, but having to share more resources *cough* oil *cough* fish is not something i like. We pay enough as it is for beeng part of the EEA.
Im guessing you want more control over your resources too. I know the american government like that fact that we are not a part of the EU and im guessing they feel the same way about Iceland staying out.
Euro = hmm yes at times i feel it would be a good thing
EU beaurocracy = notsomuch
The reasons are the same in Iceland. Fish is our main export and the fishing policy would be shifted to Brusselles.
And there is possibly both oil and gas W of the country.
Then there is the Bureaucracy and on the horizon the birth of the state of Europe.
Regarding currency, there are 11 non-EU members using the Euro, there off 6 without "blessing" from the EU.
There are also many countries using the US dollar. Uncle Sam doesn't bother, on the contrary.
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Neilsen and Angus, the way you two talk, you'd think being those of us in the EU are living lives of fear, poverty and oppression. Not exactly true. Nor has the Euro resulted in a disastrous economic recession. No the US and it's sub prime crisis, was what did for us. Not to mention Iceland's own government and banking system scuttling itself. As for this idea
IMHO Greenland-Iceland-Faroes-Norway should form their own zone.
Norway would end up spending a lot of money propping up the other three.
I'm not saying you should join the EU now or ever. But frankly the only reason either of have stayed until now was because you had the advantage of natural resources others don't have. But fishing and aluminium on their own won't sustain Iceland forever, particularly since the banking system imploded. Norway has it's oil among other natural resources, also finite. Both of you are very dependant on single commodities. I would say the Iceland has lost out in gaining offshore investment particularly from America because of it's absence from the EU. We here in Ireland cleaned up on that side of things and that in particular right now is one of the few things keeping us afloat.
Basically joining the EU is almost inevitable in the long run. Iceland I think sooner rather than later. You could probably get a favourable deal on the fishing seeing as it's a vital part of Iceland's economy.
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Neilsen and Angus, the way you two talk, you'd think being those of us in the EU are living lives of fear, poverty and oppression. Not exactly true. Nor has the Euro resulted in a disastrous economic recession. No the US and it's sub prime crisis, was what did for us. Not to mention Iceland's own government and banking system scuttling itself. As for this idea Norway would end up spending a lot of money propping up the other three.
I'm not saying you should join the EU now or ever. But frankly the only reason either of have stayed until now was because you had the advantage of natural resources others don't have. But fishing and aluminium on their own won't sustain Iceland forever, particularly since the banking system imploded. Norway has it's oil among other natural resources, also finite. Both of you are very dependant on single commodities. I would say the Iceland has lost out in gaining offshore investment particularly from America because of it's absence from the EU. We here in Ireland cleaned up on that side of things and that in particular right now is one of the few things keeping us afloat.
Basically joining the EU is almost inevitable in the long run. Iceland I think sooner rather than later. You could probably get a favourable deal on the fishing seeing as it's a vital part of Iceland's economy.
Reality check here. Under the present conditions of the Iceland's economy, I don't think Iceland would be accepted into the Euro, even if they were full members of the EU. As the Americans say, that boat has long left the dock.
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So do you really think that the EU would sustain us after our resources run dry cpxxx?
The fishing ran bad under Bruxelles, we are however rather stable in the affair. So are the Norse.
Greenland and the Faroes are "in" the EU through Denmark. Despite vast resources they have not been doing so well, and both are tickled by the idea of (more) independence.
Between Greenland and Iceland there is a good chance of oil and gas. In Greenland already there is mining, and increasing as the Glacier retreats.
BTW, we are half-way into the EU. In that deal was the opening that our banks exploited so wildly. Had we been further away from the EU, this would not have happened....
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So do you really think that the EU would sustain us after our resources run dry cpxxx?
The fishing ran bad under Bruxelles, we are however rather stable in the affair. So are the Norse.
Greenland and the Faroes are "in" the EU through Denmark. Despite vast resources they have not been doing so well, and both are tickled by the idea of (more) independence.
Between Greenland and Iceland there is a good chance of oil and gas. In Greenland already there is mining, and increasing as the Glacier retreats.
BTW, we are half-way into the EU. In that deal was the opening that our banks exploited so wildly. Had we been further away from the EU, this would not have happened....
I have to say that the fishing industry in Iceland is well regarded in their management and one can hope that the EU would implement a system like it... fat chance of that happening right now :o The collapse of Iceland's banks are not the fault of the EU, it was caused by greed. You should be looking to the CEOs of the banks as well as your own politicians instead of using the EU as a boogieman.
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The Krona is low, so we're turning into a cheap tourist country. I will be selling donkey rides near the airfield :devil
Make sure you paint the donkey like a zebra. Tourists love 'em, just ask my brethren south of the US border.
(http://www.digthatcrazyfarout.com/oldtj/TJ_donkey.jpg)
ack-ack
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I have to say that the fishing industry in Iceland is well regarded in their management and one can hope that the EU would implement a system like it... fat chance of that happening right now :o The collapse of Iceland's banks are not the fault of the EU, it was caused by greed. You should be looking to the CEOs of the banks as well as your own politicians instead of using the EU as a boogieman.
Caused by greed, oh absolutely yes.
Possible by law incorporated with a EU-like contract in 1994. (Semi 4-freedom)
The UK have a grudge on the Icelandic bank system due to the collapse, and yet not so much. Turned out that the private banks were "insured" by the government, so there is a payback to holders in the UK (And Holland, Germany etc). Icelandic taxpayers will have to split this. Icelandic holders however loose all theirs. I have met people in the last weeks that lost their whole life savings.
So, dibble-dabble with the EU ended there.
The UK lost lots of savings when the biggest American banks flopped. Many times more than needed to dwarf our side. However, AFAIK there will be no claims there.
Now, the EU and our banks...well....Britain pulled a funny card. When the banks started tumbling, they used a legal side to confiscate assets etc under a law pile called "terrorist law". This accelerated everything and managed to collapse the biggest one, which should otherwise have been a survivor.
Small fish should maybe NOT join the sharkpool?
BTW, Conan, where are you from?
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News update. Apparently the Brits are freezing. So we send them woolen products :D
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/7851365.stm
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:D
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BTW, Conan, where are you from?
I am French, but live in Scotland for the time being.
And I agree about your assestment of the way the British government handled the Iceland's bank collapse... Shameful to say the least. Furthermore, probably the reason they took that position was because the funds came from local councils in the UK. But, I have to ask, why was the UK government different offices using funds collected by taxes to invest for profit... Why didn't they use it for their intended purpose? But, again, that is a discussion for another time.
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Ah, in Scotland. (Been there many times, and liked it a lot).
The Brits handled us roughly, and the deal may not all be over yet. However, when it came to British funds (many times as much) being lost in the American banks, there was no such tackling...
It was also the Dutch, and the Germans, so as a result of the crisis, much more Icelanders OPPOSE joining into the EU.
The idea that international/European banking business would bring income to the country was just a dream and will not happen from now. The Aluminum gives currency exchange, but NOT much of an income to the nation, since the firms belong to foreign companies, -nor do they give a lot of jobs. The fishing is still the true machine of national income. And on the horizon there are oil/gas sources looming. So all in all, the only thing we know about joining the EU is:
1: No EURO for several years, since the country's financial standards will not allow it.
2: Control of resources go abroad.
3: The country must undergo various regulation changes to adapt. It already has done many due to it's contract with the EU, but this is some to add. It did cost quite a bit.
And many little things to add...but EU as a miracle solution, I think not.
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Ah, in Scotland. (Been there many times, and liked it a lot).
The Brits handled us roughly, and the deal may not all be over yet. However, when it came to British funds (many times as much) being lost in the American banks, there was no such tackling...
It was also the Dutch, and the Germans, so as a result of the crisis, much more Icelanders OPPOSE joining into the EU.
The idea that international/European banking business would bring income to the country was just a dream and will not happen from now. The Aluminum gives currency exchange, but NOT much of an income to the nation, since the firms belong to foreign companies, -nor do they give a lot of jobs. The fishing is still the true machine of national income. And on the horizon there are oil/gas sources looming. So all in all, the only thing we know about joining the EU is:
1: No EURO for several years, since the country's financial standards will not allow it.
2: Control of resources go abroad.
3: The country must undergo various regulation changes to adapt. It already has done many due to it's contract with the EU, but this is some to add. It did cost quite a bit.
And many little things to add...but EU as a miracle solution, I think not.
I could not agree with you more. The EU is not a miracle. In fact, I am as surprised about some of the pro-EU lobby as for the anti-EU lobby. You are right, the damage is done. Joining the EU is not going to solve it, and the Euro is a pipe dream for the time being. But, the comment "control of resources go abroad"... come on, that is typical nationalistic anti-EU nonsense that get thrown about. judging by the size of the Iceland, you guys will probably be recipients of funds instead of the other way around.
As to the fishing industry of Iceland, I can't see why your government would allow EU interferience on it. If you play your cards right and combine forces with the other Scandinavian countries, you could easily force the Spanish and French government back down. It is a long and tedious process but totally doable.
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There is a reason for the EU beeing so eager to get Norway and Iceland (pre crisis) to join, and its not because they have excess funds that they need to dump on us ;)
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Afraid so.
BTW, the Spanish once declared that there was no way they'd pass Iceland into the EU without getting fishing rights.
We should pass for fishing rights in our waters for the sake of tradition, however the question remains if others will get them too. Which means too much fishing, and honestly, the EU fishing policy has not been working very well.
The Icelanders and Norse both fish a lot of cod with not much of a problem while cod is extinct in large waters around the world, noteably in the EU zone.
And then there is the oil....
IMHO the EU suits well to the countries of mainland Europe that are chunked together anyway, and it has at least kept things at quite some peace. But expanding with trickery and forming into a federal state, - that is IMHO a bit too much.
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More of economy, - since Iceland isn't the only one in trouble.
Did it start in the USA?
The similarities are there, - our country increased consumption (which the banks virtually encouraged) without increasing export. The currency was still rising, and one day such a balloon must pop.
The Bankers didn't think so (although they were scurrying off to the Cayman islands with their illgotten gains just days before the collapse), but from a farmer's point of view it looked likely.
Here is one prophet from the USA, - reminds me very much of what happened here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw&feature=related
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I like how they were all laughing at Peter Schiff when he said don't invest in financials. I also like the part where someone mentions Morgan Stanely being a great investment because it's a well managed company..
:lol
Peter has been wrong on a few things too, he said many times that the dollar would collapse by October 2008. He said commodities would skyrocket because of this collapse and he said gold would move much higher.
He was wrong on all counts.
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But on the air going out of the balloon...he was right.
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Tell the EU to pucker up and kiss your Icelandic backsides when it comes to "fishing rights".
Just because some country joins OPEC do they sign away "drilling rights" on it's neighborhood? Think not.
Iceland has it's own jobs and industries to support.
Good Luck, Angus, and as my own country tries to pull itself up by it's ecenomic bootstraps--I hope that yours, and others around the world do so as well. It's only in all of our own best interests. :salute
ROX
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But on the air going out of the balloon...he was right.
He was right about the financial markets, there were few others that brought it up as well. I don't agree with his views about going back to a gold standard.
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Tell the EU to pucker up and kiss your Icelandic backsides when it comes to "fishing rights".
Just because some country joins OPEC do they sign away "drilling rights" on it's neighborhood? Think not.
Iceland has it's own jobs and industries to support.
Good Luck, Angus, and as my own country tries to pull itself up by it's ecenomic bootstraps--I hope that yours, and others around the world do so as well. It's only in all of our own best interests. :salute
ROX
Hehe, just my thoughts.
So for you : :rock
And Soda, - I'd buy gold today rather than...stocks. I would have done so for more than a year. Much more...
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Don't me started on EU fishing rights, Scotland got well and truely screwed over that :mad:
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Just about NO cod fished out of the North sea, right?
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I wonder what would have happened if interest rates out to the banks would have been slashed at the beginning of the credit crunch and not in 100 small steps. Maybe more of the idiot lenders would have been able to pay for the homes they "own" and kept the housing marked from collapsing in some countries. Add more government regulation on the financial sector on top of that to keep it from happening again with _new loans_ and maybe we would have had a softer landing on this.
In the long run though a high interest rate is needed to teach people that having so much debt is a bad thing and that DRIVING the economy by spending with borrowed money is not the way of the future.
In the end i blame every parent out there that FAIL to teach their kids that spending money before you make it is a bad thing. That goes for housing, cars, luxury items AND using your credit card to buy every day items so that you are always one month behind.
Ive had the credit card usage debate here several times before and those who still does not get it prolly never will (until they cant pay off one due to something (like loosing your job) that supposedly wont happen that is);)
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I do not have a CC :D
Not a car, nor a house....
Just debts from the business.
The grim reality up here is that the banks are now overloading the business with insane interest rates. and if those do not get dropped soon, it will lead to a collapse, - 60% of our corporate sector is now technically bankrupt. A bankrupt company offers no revenue. Kind of like teaching your kid not to use a credit card by shooting the kid dead. . . . . AFTER the card was used.
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Iceland is in a special situation and it is a difficult one. What Iceland needs if you can get it is a huge loan from the international community. You then need to pump that money into the banks at cost and then those businesses that owe money to the banks has to get refinanced at cost. It will mean that the banks wont make money (break even) but the businesses and homeowners that depend on them will live and have a chanse to recover. The loans that the government gives to the banks could be in the form of shares in the banks until they can pay it all back.
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Precisely.
The govt (that fell) wasn't planning on that, most on the loanmoney goes for repaying foreign investors their losses from the bank collapse, - business would have to take care of itself, as well as the people end up with this bill from the banks. The new govt is ready to plunge into more debt for restoring the businesses.
Unemployment is now rocketing, despite people moving out of the country as well as foreign workers returning to their homes.
But the farmer always stays, and some businesses, such as tourism, are on the rise.