Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funked on January 27, 2000, 07:25:00 PM
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I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is the biggest problem with the game for me. It makes it very difficult to attack point targets in historical fashion.
The accuracy is too good.
The vertical range is too high.
The rate of sustained fire is too high.
There appears to be no dispersion.
There appears to be no "fear". I.e. a strafing pass should keep their heads down sometimes, and a bomb going off nearby should at least cause a delay in firing while they pick themselves up and wonder why they are bleeding from their ears.
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I guess some of these items could be said about the B-17 as well.
The accuracy is too good.
The vertical range (ceiling) is too high.
There appears to be no dispersion (in bomb trajectory).
I guess those items keep people flying bombers though lending some balance to arenas.
I do like the idea that funked suggests: a momentary delay in the firing of an ack if a bomb was close enough to stun the "gunners" but not enough to kill it. This might give Jabo's some possibility of success against the acks without resorting to a vertical dive bomb drop from 20k.
MiG
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Mig - If we fix the acks, who needs BUFFS? BUFFS were historically good against dispersed targets, not the point targets we have in this game. AH targets are more appropriate for attack aircraft.
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I agree. It would be great to be able to have near misses with rockets on an ack cause the gunners to pause at least for a few seconds, or affect their accuracy in some way.
Perhaps what would be better is to create more AAA on the ground by airbases, while decreasing their accuracy and range. By adding a few .50 cal gun positions around a base, decreasing the 30mm accuracy woulndn't upset the balance of field capture by too much.
It seems that all there is for AAA is laser accurate 30mm. I can't even imagine a BOFORS gunner being able to track targets at high speed and deflection angles with even a remote amount of accuracy beyond 1-2k.
Even if these changes cause field captures to be done by many more Jabo than Buff missions, great! It would still require people to cooperate to take a field, and would help mix up the type of aircraft people fly. Buffs are still powerful tools to use for base capture, but they are best suited for strategic attacks.
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You've got the right idea troxel, more guns that are less accurate.
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PLAYER CONTROLED ACKS!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<runs out of room screaming as bullets wiz by>
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You mean instead of getting my back laid open while the engine is cranking up that i could be behind some sandbags swinging a Pom-Pom gun around to take a whack at the nme trying to close the base down??? I like the idea, but would it require being a "manned" position at all times? Or just running in and kicking otto out of the way (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
JimBear
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I see no problem with no otto for AA. I would use it for base defense, and I'm sure others would rather man a gun than hop into a plane that is sure to get whacked on lift off.
Better still to have the ackwagon, driving around blasting enemies. This would prevent wagons from getting bombed, and force the JABO runs to get them. The only trouble IO can see there is the spawn rate of ackwagons...
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Ack!! I hate ack!
I mean I really hate ack!!
It shoots me down and stuff!
It shot me in my parachute!!
How low can you go??????
I hate ack!! It sucks!!
If you strafe ack, you should get a message, "killed # ack tenders"
Man! I hate ack!!
A few days ago checking ack, "Hey Swager, check if ack is still up."
"Duh! Okay", I replied.
"Ack is still up", as I floated down in my parachute.
I really hate ack!!!
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Damn Ghostrider! This bogey is all over me!!
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My favorite is how they can IFF a bandit in a 10k furball and nail that plane but not the nearby friendlies. Ludicrous!
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Don't you guys know, those aren't WWII vintage acks. They are actually a set of phalanx anti-aircraft/missile defense guns pulled off the Nimitz during her retrofit. (Phalanx (hope I spelled it right) is a radar-guided gatling gun firing 3000+ rds/min)
Also, HTC equipped the above with a mini-ammo factory below them employing hundreds of sheep in slave labor camps. This accounts for the unlimited ammo. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Just be thankful they don't have phoenix missiles pounding you from 100 miles away. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Ok, ok, serious now. Honestly, can't we tone down the ack a little, until HTC gets around to creating a more "realistic" anti-aircraft system.
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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"Winning" the game (getting a reset) is based on taking fields.
It's impossible take a field when the ack is up; therefore, the ack must be knocked out.
It's nearly impossible to take out ack with a Jabo <I can't do it, but some guys say they have killed an ack or two this way>.
Therefore, you generally HAVE to use a bomber to win through to a reset.
Now if this is an aircombat game, why is tactical bombing the primary requirement for winning?
Just wondering (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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If this is an aircombat game, why does winning entail "capturing" the enemies airfields?
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Bloom, my dad was an AAA commander for the US Army. One of their weapons was a vulcan with radar mounted on an M-113. He says the AH acks are much better. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Juzz, Air Combat (at least the real stuff) is about destroying the enemy's ground assets and protecting one's own ground assets. This is why combat aircraft exist.
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Punt! The more I play, the more annoying this gets.
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Pyro or HiTech already said, a couple of weeks ago, that the current ACK is only in a place holder setup and that they are redoing over ALL the ack.
-Westy
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cc Westy.
However given the fact that the entire game revolves around base capture, completing the ack model should be a VERY high priority.
I am with funked on this one.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"
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RGR Westy! It's just that I would rather see them working on this hugely important gameplay factor than fine tuning the Spitfire nose art or something.
But I realize they only have so many people to work on this kind of thing.
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Rgr that Verm and funked but from what I remember the ack was no small project. It was going to be multicalibre and the way folks have been asking for the most part.
I'm not trying to answer for HTC in any way but just saying it was a big effort being worked on from what I read.
I think in each patch you see the results of work from several different people/divisions within HTC. Superfly for example is working on art while HiTech codes a segment of the program and Pyro would build or work on a flight model. Some projects will require more time to work on while others come along sooner.
I agree on the ack issue. I just wanted to remind or mention to folks that Pyro had said he was working on that project and it was no small matter.
Of course I really should pipe down and let them post about it to be honest before I make an a&& of myself (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
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As an interim solution, the ack could be made less accurate/potent/hardened...whatever, AND random/multiple spawn points cound be introduced. This would make it easier to kill the acks, but also make it easier to avoid vultchers and get defenders airborn.
popeye
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Westy you are right about it being a big project. The WB otto and ack codes has been tinkered with for 4 years+ now, and it still pisses off a lot of people.
But there has got to be an interim solution to the ack problem. The ack hugging and the impossibility of Jabo missions are detriments to the game.
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Air Combat (at least the real stuff) is about destroying the enemy's ground assets and protecting one's own ground assets.
Again; why does winning rest solely on "capturing" the enemy's airfields? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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$0.02 I don't have a problem with their strength, but would love to see the accuracy to pinpoint a particular plane lessened. Would make a world of difference to folks diving for the saftey of the AAA if they took the same chance of a Flak burst in the face from Pvt.Otto as the nme following them in.
JimBear
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Juzz
Because it is easier to develop that way and lets HT focus on the air to air content...
This is just a scenerio generator for air combat.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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I don't see a problem at all with present accuracy. IMO ack huggers are the easiest thing to shoot down short of c47s and parked planes.
Fatty
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if you want ack accurcy the same as it ws in WWII, then put out as many acks as there would be at a airfield, not two, more like 20 to 30, better bring more then one or two bombers.
wolf37
THUNDERBIRDS
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Don't you guys know, those aren't WWII vintage acks. They are actually a set of phalanx anti-aircraft/missile defense guns pulled off the Nimitz during her retrofit.
If HTC could code the CWIS system to be as accurate as the AH acks then no US naval vessel need ever fear an Exocet missile ever again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Seriously, the current ack is a complete joke. Flying 6,000 feet over an enemy field at 400kts, pulling 3g evasives and the sole remaining ack had no trouble tracking and taking my plane apart piece by piece.
I remember HT once saying in the arena that the acks were strong in order to force people to fly buffs. OK great.... so people fly buffs.
But why the hell create bomb loadouts for the fighters when the chances of getting your ordinance on target is practically zero?
Set a time delay for ack .... 20 seconds after the first enemy aircraft comes into range. And if you're below 500 feet, 20 seconds after you come within say 1000yds of the field. If you're flying with a wingie it gives you the incentive to try a low-level jabo: if you nail the acks, fine, you're rewarded for your organisational skills. If you miss then you're low near an enemy field and likely to be blown from the sky.
But sheesh.... can HTC really try to defend current ack strength? Have they never heard of VF-17's "Statue of Liberty" play?
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'
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Jekyll - I couldn't agree with you more.
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Thanks for the vote of support funked.
Now if only HTC agreed then we'd be able to put some spark back into this sim (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'
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I think they've indicated they agree, and apparently they are working hard on air-mud issues right now.