Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oakranger on October 08, 2008, 09:48:17 PM
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Here is a quesion that i asked my squadron a year ago. I had mixed answer but a one people just about nail it. Lets see how well you all know your history.
It has been debated by many historians on when World War II started. Most people believe it started in 1939 and some believe it started when U.S declare war on Japan. Just think of the quesion and give your honest answer. I will post the answer in 24 hrs.
Good Luck
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January 7th, 1935.
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September 1st, 1939.
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Hmm, the minute after the signing of the treaty of Versailles. I believe that was 1919.
I believe hostilities began with the invasion of China by Japan 1937.
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Karaya, This is NOT multiple choice :rofl
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Septmeber 3rd, 1939, when Great Britain and France officially declared war on Germany.
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I always thought of it as Sept 1st 1939 :salute
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Hmm, the minute after the signing of the treaty of Versailles. I believe that was 1919.
I believe hostilities began with the invasion of China by Japan 1937.
:aok
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Whenever Japan invaded China.
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No simple answer to this one, if we view the conflict in its entirety the answer is Japans attack on Manchuria in 1931. If we view it as a European event we have 4 possibilities based on end result or cause/effect.
1) the occupation of the Rhineland is the initial true act of war on the continent itself. It is however preceded by:
a) in 1933 Germany left the League of Nations
b) in 1935 German conscription started
c) also in 1935 Italy invaded Abyssinia
So while WW2 is viewed by many historians as a continuation of WW1 it had its functional roots in the above. My personal vote is an odd one in the sense that I believe both WW1 & 2 had roots in the Boxer Rebellion which drew all major powers into a tinderbox and directly spawned the Russo-Japanese war and triggered the fall of the Tsar, Japanese imperialism, instability in Austria-Hungary, the rise of Kaiser Wilhelm's global asperations and the continuation of US imperialism in the Pacific. Every root cause of WW1 (and there for WW2) can be traced with certainty to this single place and point in time.
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When the 'Germans' bombed Pearl Harbor.
Next question.
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When the 'Germans' bombed Pearl Harbor.
Next question.
Thank you, sir, may I have another?
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Sudetenland.
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Whenever Japan invaded China.
September 18, 1931, near Mukden in Manchuria . When the Japanese started taking over chunks of China.
WW2 basically started when Germany tossed out the Treaty of Versailles (1935,'36 ) , Mar '36 when Hitler took over and remilitarized the Rhineland . (i'll agree with Humble that this was a direct act of war at that time)
but Sept 1 '39 when Hitler invaded Poland and is the official date everyone seams to agree on .
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'World War' to me implies conflict involving nations all around the world.
All events point to Dec 11th 1941 as the date the war became truly global.
When Japan attacked China it was not a global war. It was a regional conflict.
When Britain and France declared war on Germany.. even though Canada (representing american continent), India, Australia, New Zealand and the South African territories held by the brits and french entered the war as well, it was not a GLOBAL war as one one side of the world the Chinese were fighting the Japanese alone, and the euros/brit Commonwealth were fighting their war on their own.
When Germany attacked Russia it was still not a global war.. as before, the euro/commonwealth was not fighting any asian opponents.
When Pearl Harbor happened and the US entered the war on Dec 7th, it still was NOT a global war. US was at War only with Japan and no other nation was at war with an Asian power and an euro/commonwealth power at the same time.
Technically, World War 2 started on December 11, 1941 when Germany and Italy declared war on the United States thus linking the Asian war with the Euro/Commonwealth war.
While the Russians did not declare war on Japan until almost the very last month of the war, one cannot consider this the truly global date because Japan was an open ally of Germany and Russia was already at war with Germany.
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bah double post
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if you use this argument WWI never started
or it started in 1941 :D
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Hmm, the minute after the signing of the treaty of Versailles. I believe that was 1919.
We have a winner.
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WW2 started with the German invasion of Poland early in the morning 1st of September 1939.
The first victims of the war were German convicts dressed up in uniforms and shot outside a radio-station, building an excuse for the already planned invasion.
The first naval use was by a German warship on a "visit" in Poland when she opened fire with big guns on a polish stronghold.
WW2 went into "world war" when Britain and France together with their colonies declared war on Germany on the 3rd of September.
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LOL, I love it when the "world" goes to war when Europe decides it's good and ready to start one.
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This is indeed a tough one, with possibly no one right answer.
The links with WW1 are important and accurate, but too much time passed between wars for the end of the 1st to be linked so closely to the beginning of the 2nd. If one wants to view both wars as one period that works, but that would put the start in Aug 1914. (Though the roots falling in the Boxer Rebellion is a good link).
Hostilities began in a minor way in China in 1931, as has been pointed out, but didn't kick off in a very serious way until 1937. Still, this is only a localized theater engagement. The Italian invasion of Abyssinia is also a beginning of hostilities of some sort, but had no real significance to the overall conflict.
Europe and the colonies becoming enmeshed in the conflict in 1939 does bring participants from all hemispheres, but they come to fight in Europe. The Europeans didn't get involved in fighting in Asia until later after Pearl Harbor (I think, someone please check me on this). As such this is it's own globally participated theater engagement. A counterpoint to this is the alliance of Germany and Japan. If one sees the World War as Allies Vs Axis, this that been globally satisfied at this time.
The German attack on Russia brings not only a new front to the European theater, but does span continents. Remember that the USSR extends well into Asia. While the fighting didn't really leave the European part of it, an important part of the Russian war effort was moving production east and out of range of German bombers. This could be called and extension of the conflict to global proportions.
The attacks on Pearl Harbor, the Japanese drive towards SE Asia and the declarations by Germany and Italy that followed did fully bring the conflict into global status. In this case America is the bridge that spans both the oceans, and is the only combatant that is fully committed to two theaters of war (counting Africa as Europe for the sake of geographical simplicity).
Precursors to the war such as the remilitarization of the Rhineland and the takeover of the Sudetenland are important to consider in the causes of the war, but did not directly lead to hostilities, and as such I don't think they can be considered the beginning.
I think the best single answer is the beginning of Operation Barbarossa, opening the Eastern theater, brining Asia into the fight and eventually leading to the defeat of Germany. This was the single biggest front of the war, and was probably most responsible for brining it to a close. Without the strain of the Eastern Front, the tides of war in the West could have turned much differently. The entry of the US into battle in Europe and the Pacific later in 1941 seals the deal, conveniently just as things start to go bad for the Germans in Russia, and represents the high water mark of the Nazi war effort. Still, I think that there was enough conflict across the world by that time to consider it a world conflict before the entry of America.
I guess it all depends on how you define a world war.
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September 3rd 1939
Tronsky
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September 3rd 1939 is correct. If Tac's assessment was correct then WWI wasn't a world war at all, but I think most would agree that it was. The vast size of the British Empire at the time basically meant that any war the British got committed to would become a world war.
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Officially 1st of sept is however accepted, since that was the date of the beginning of hostilities that lead to WW2. Just took 2 days to make it official.
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Well, to be honest, WWI should be WWII and WWII should be WWIII. The Seven Year War (1751-1757) should be WWI. The war consist of French, British, Austria, India and the Colonial and North American Indians. French and Indian War is part of the Seven Year war.
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1914 The war never really ended.
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Nope. or?
It didn't go global as in WORLD war. This covers less of the globe than just the commonwealth in WW2.
Anyway WW2 didn't go completely global untill 1941, then just about everybody was at war.
But...a very good point, I'm reading up on this now, and TY!
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It would be interesting to know when it got named as World War 2? There was no such thing as World War 1, before the 2nd one was named. Before that it was "The Great War". So, when were the terms WW1 and WW2 born? How long had WW2 been going on until people realized what it was?
Anyone? (I for sure have no clue on this one)
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If I remember right, it was a pair of british journalists that coined the 'World War 2' term.
Anyways, WW1 was global as well. Nations that declared war on Germany were : Russia (Eurasia), British Empire/Commonwealth (India/Australia/New Zealand/Africa), United States/Canada and Japan. That covers the entire globe actively engaged in combat against Germany.
I think that no war before that had ever included participants from every continent against the same foe and had combat take place around the world under 2 groups fighting each other. Not even the british / french colonial wars as colonies from each side fighting each other doesn't exactly count since they were dragged into it by the dominating powers. WW1 and WW2 however, did see the british colonies and commonwealth nations issue war declarations of their own.
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I have all the declaration of war dates but there are too many to list here. Here is a website with the same information that I have in a book.
http://worldatwar.net/timeline/other/diplomacy39-45.html (http://worldatwar.net/timeline/other/diplomacy39-45.html)
Interestingly enough, Poland never "declared" war on Germany or the Soviet Union.
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If I remember right, it was a pair of british journalists that coined the 'World War 2' term.
Anyways, WW1 was global as well. Nations that declared war on Germany were : Russia (Eurasia), British Empire/Commonwealth (India/Australia/New Zealand/Africa), United States/Canada and Japan. That covers the entire globe actively engaged in combat against Germany.
I think that no war before that had ever included participants from every continent against the same foe and had combat take place around the world under 2 groups fighting each other. Not even the british / french colonial wars as colonies from each side fighting each other doesn't exactly count since they were dragged into it by the dominating powers. WW1 and WW2 however, did see the british colonies and commonwealth nations issue war declarations of their own.
Well, read about the seven year war. It was a war that Bitish ( UK, Britsh Colonies in North America, Britsh East India Company, Irland), France (New France of north amica, French East India Company) Austria, Handover, Burnswick- Wolfenbiuttel, Hesse-Kassel, a dozen American indain tribs and nations, Swedon, Russia, Spain, Neatherland, Portugal, and Indian, Roman empire, Saxony, Naples, and Sardinia.
All the battles took place in North America (French and Indian War), Europe, Africa, India, and Philippines. Back then the world was so huge to have a global confect, even for that time peroid. That is why it should be WWI.
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World War II had no exact beginning but clearly was in progress with the German invasion of Poland in September 1939 and was clearly a world conflict with the bombing of the U.S. Navy base at Pearl Harbor by Japan in December of 1941. However, many historians argue on what should be consider the exact date or WWII. Most do stand on the German Invation in Poland. But I am including events before 1939, going as far back as 1917. There are many events that lead to WWII.
1917 - Bolshevik revolt Nov. 6 by Lenin and Trotsky overthrew Czar Nicholas and established a Communist government in Russia. After the death of Lenin in 1924, Joseph Stalin rose to power and drove Trotsky out of the government by 1927.
1918 - new states of Lithuania (Feb. 16), Estonia (Feb. 24), Czechoslovakia (Oct. 18), Poland (Nov. 11), Republic of Austria (Nov. 13), Republic of Hungary (Nov. 16), Latvia (Nov. 18), Yugoslavia (Nov. 24)
1919, June- The Treaty of Versailles was signed at the end of World War I, and was intended to disarm Germany and force her to pay war reparations. Europe is essentially redrawn, creating an independant Polish state
1920 - Treaty of Sevres Aug. 10 carved up the former Ottoman Empire in the Middle East into new mandates controlled by Britain and France: Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine (that was opened to Jewish settlement in accordance with the Balfour Declaration of Nov. 2, 1917, giving British support to the Zionist movement founded by Theodor Herzl in 1897 and led by Chaim Weizmann. The Treaty denied independence sought by the Arabs led by King Hussein who had helped the British fight the Turks and who had sent Prince Feisal to the Versailles peace conference. The Ottoman Empire was replaced by the new Republic of Turkey Oct. 29, 1923, led by President Mustapha Kemal.
1923 - France and Belgium occupy the Ruhr Jan. 11 after Germany defaulted on coal reparations payments; Hitler's "beer hall putsch Nov. 8 failed to overthrow the Bavarian government and Hitler was sentenced to 5 years in prison (served 1 year) and wrote Mein Kampf.
1929, 23 October- The New York Stock Exchange crashes. A worldwide economic depression begins, pulling Germany back into its economic depression that it had been battling to escape for 10 years.
1929 - Kellogg-Briand Pact signed to outlaw war
1931
September 18- Japan's Kwantung Army attacked the Chinese barracks and occupied Mukden
July 1, 1931 - China began economic boycott against Japan
Sep. 18, 1931 - Japan invaded Manchura
Oct. 8, 1931 - Japan planes bombed Chinchow on China border - Japan army began move on China's NE provinces
For 1st time, China asked League to intervene, but no military action taken
1932
Jan. - Japan sets up a puppet government to lead Manchuria as the new state Manchukuo. Japan and China begin a scuffling war that will continue until the end of World War II.
1933
Hitler had taken Germany out of the Leauge of Natins and annunced his intention to re-arm the country.
1934
Dec. 5, 1934, a skirmish at Wal Wal (Ualval) involving an Italian garrison 80 miles inside the Ethiopian border was used by Mussolini as a pretext for demanding compensation and preparing for war.
1935
Oct. 2, 1935, Mussolini ordered the bombing of Adowa by planes and the beginning of the invasion of Ethiopia by Marshal Badoglio Oct. 3 who was authorized to use poison mustard gas and destroy civilian villages.
1936
Spanish Civil War 1936-37
Summer: Leauge of Nations called off its sanctions on Italy.
March- Germany re-occupies the Rhineland. This was forbidden by the Treaty of Versailles to create a de-militarized zone as a buffer between Germany and France. An enormous gamble on Hitler's part due to his still small military size, England and France merely protest.
September: Hitler and Mussolini formed a military alliance called the "Rome-Berlin Axis" and began referring to themselves as the axis powers."
November- The Anti-Comitern Pact is signed by Germany and Japan.
1938
March 12 - German troops crossed the border and occupied Austria. Hitler stood in his open car in his brown storm trooper uniform as he drove into Vienna. On March 13 he proclaimed the Anschluss and declared that Austria was now the Ostmark, a province of the Third Reich.
September 29, Germany, Britain, France, and Italy sign the Munich Pact allowing Germany to invade the Sudeten territories of Czechoslovakia.
1939
Jan. 2 - Time magazine pronounced Hitler Man of the Year for 1938, but for the first time did not show the face of the Man of the Year on the cover of the magazine.
Mar. 15- German troops enter Prague and complete the invasion of Czechoslovakia, ignoring the Munich Pact.
Mar. 23 - Hitler occupied Memelland (NE Prussia ceded to Lithuania) & demanded Danzig - map
Mar. 31- Britain declares that it will support Poland.
Apr. 8 - Italy invaded and occupied Albania, driving King Zog into exile in Greece.
July- First Opium War in China against the west, forcing China to import British opium. Britain won the war and as a result gained control over Hong Kong.
Aug- Allies form non-aggression pacts with Turkey, Greece, Romania, and Poland.
Aug. 23 - Nazi-Soviet Pact
Sep. 1, 1939 - Poland invaded by "Blitzkrieg"
Sep. 3 - Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declare war on Germany after German forces penetrate deeper into Poland. This marks the beginning of World War II For most of the world.
Sep. 5 - FDR declared neutrality and national emergency.
Sept 10 - Canada declares war on Germany; Battle of the Atlantic begins.
Sep. 17 - Russia invaded Poland, Baltics
Sep. 27 - fall of Warsaw after 20 days bombardment
Sep. 29 - German-Russian treaty partitioned Poland
Oct. 2 - Declaration of Panama - 300 mile "safety belt"
Nov. 30 Russia invaded Finland. The Russo-Finnish War begins
1940
Mar. 12- Finland surrenders to the USSR
April 9- Nazis invade Denmark and Norway.
May 10 - western front attack began by Germany (Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, France)
May 13 - Ardennnes break-through into France b y German Panzer Div.
June 10 - Norway surrenders to the Nazis; Italy declares war on Britain and France.
July 23 - Soviets take Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
Aug 3-19 - Italians occupy British Somaliland in East Africa.
Sept 13 - Italians invade Egypt.
Oct 7 - German troops enter Romania.
Oct 28 - Italy invades Greece.
Nov 20- Hungary joins the Axis Powers.
Nov 23 - Romania joins the Axis Powers.
1941
April 3 - Pro-Axis regime set up in Iraq.
June 4 - Pro-Allied government installed in Iraq.
June 8 - Allies invade Syria and Lebanon.
Dec. 6 - Britain declared war on Finland, Hungary, and Rumania.
Dec 7 - Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor, invades Philippians, Malaysia, Burma, all British Colonies, CANADA DECLARES WAR ON JAPAN
Dec 8 - United States and Britain declare war on Japan.
- Japan invaded Thailand
- AUSTRALIA DECLARES WAR ON JAPAN Union of South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Free France declared war on Japan.
- THE KINGDOM OF THE NETHERLANDS DECLARES WAR WITH JAPAN
- Colombia broke diplomatic relations with Japan.
- Costa Rica declared war on Japan.
- The Dominican Republic declared war on Japan.
- El Salvador declared war on Japan.
- Guatemala declared war on Japan.
- Haiti declared war on Japan.
- Honduras declared war on Japan.
- Panama declared war on Japan.
Dec. 9 - CHINA'S DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST JAPAN, ALSO AGAINST GERMANY AND ITALY
- Cuba declared war on Japan.
- Mexico broke diplomatic relations with Japan.
Dec 11 - Germany declares war on the United States.
- Poland declared war with Japan.
- Nicaragua declared war on Japan.
- Cuba, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Nicaragua declared war with Germany and Italy.
- Mexico broke diplomatic relations with Germany and Italy.
- Haiti, Honduras, Panama declared war on Germany and Italy.
- Rumania declared war with the United States.
Dec 13- El Salvador declared war on Germany and Italy.
- Bulgaria declared war on the United States.
Dec 16- Czechoslovakia declared war on all countries at war with Great Britain, Russia, or the United States.
Dec 17- Albania reported declared war on the United States.
Dec 20 - Nicaragua declared war on Rumania, Hungary, Bulgaria.
Dec 23 - Mexico broke off relations with Bulgaria, Hungary, and Rumania.
1942
Jan 1- Declaration of the United Nations signed by 26 Allied nations.
From September 1 1939 (Germany invades Poland) to August 8 1945 (Japan surrenders) would be what most people believe WWII timeline. 2222 Days. I ask you all what you think was the start of WWII, and you did. I am please that you all have a rich knowledge of history. However, the question I asked, “When did WWII started” may be a trick question. You see, with the events on invasions and declaration of war occur on different days or years. You never thought of the individual countries. Case example, WWII started for Manchuria in 1931 and ended 1945. Ethiopia saw the war in 1935 and ended 1944. It all depends what country you are. That is my opinion on when the war started. And I believe WWII was official when Nicaragua declared war on Rumania, Hungary, Bulgaria on Dec. 20, 1941. Reason is that’s was the last country to declare war and officially in it.
I bet on December 8th was Japans first of many, many bad days of the war. And take note, The Iroquois Nation dose have a separate government system and bill of rights from U.S. They too declared war on all the axis countries. They are the ONLY North American Indian Nation that has a system that U.S. recognized.
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1940
Mar. 12- Finland surrenders to the USSR
:furious
False on 2 counts.
- Finland did not surrender, the war was ended after negotiations. Soviets did not occupy Finland, Finland remained independent. Hardly a surrender, right?
- The date is Mar 13th, 1940. The peace treaty was signed on 12th, but the treaty ended the war on 13th.
Yes I know... a small detail and a side issue, but that's what a small country always is :)
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I still like my answer the best.
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Karaya, This is NOT multiple choice :rofl
Loading error on my end. 1st one is correct. I did a delete, repost thingie.
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Yes, I like how a lot of these answers require the entry of the United States for it to be a legit "world war." They really do a number on us in sophomore history, don't they. :devil
I answer "whenver Japan invaded China," because it's a clear beginning for a chain of military events that ended in 1945. It's a mistake to get caught up in the semantics of "world war." We're not debating the meaning of words, but the location of a causal-chain of events in time.
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Well, to be honest, WWI should be WWII and WWII should be WWIII. The Seven Year War (1751-1757) should be WWI. The war consist of French, British, Austria, India and the Colonial and North American Indians. French and Indian War is part of the Seven Year war.
dang man, any war with Britain involved before the Empire was torn down can be considered a World War; even further if you consider all of the major Empires that were around then. Even a war between France and Britain alone encompassed the Globe. All of their territories were included in this. (world war is only considered a war that encompasses the globe, it doesnt need multiple countries, etc.)
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:furious
False on 2 counts.
- Finland did not surrender, the war was ended after negotiations. Soviets did not occupy Finland, Finland remained independent. Hardly a surrender, right?
- The date is Mar 13th, 1940. The peace treaty was signed on 12th, but the treaty ended the war on 13th.
Yes I know... a small detail and a side issue, but that's what a small country always is :)
ooops. Yes, Finnland did sign a peace treaty with Russia.
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1917 - Bolshevik revolt Nov. 6 by Lenin and Trotsky overthrew Czar Nicholas and established a Communist government in Russia.
not quite. Tsar Nicholas was overthrown in Feb 1917 which gave way to the Provisional Government
... from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_Revolution
The February Revolution (Russian: Февральская революция) in 1917 in Russia was the first stage of the Russian Revolution of 1917. Its immediate result was the abdication of Tsar Nicholas II, the collapse of Imperial Russia and the end of the Romanov dynasty. The non-Communist Russian Provisional Government under Prince Georgy Lvov replaced the Tsar, Prince Lvov being succeeded by Alexander Kerensky after the tumult of the July Days. The Provisional government was an alliance between liberals and socialists who wanted to instigate political reform, creating a democratically-elected executive and constituent assembly. The February Revolution took place in March 1917 of the modern calendar (Gregorian calendar). In the calendar Russia was using at the time (Julian calendar), the events occurred in February, which would explain the revolution's name.
This revolution appeared to break out spontaneously, without any real leadership or formal planning. The tensions which had for so long been building up finally exploded into a revolution, and the western state of Petrograd (the City of Saint Petersburg prior to the war) became the focal point of activity. An illustration of just how large Russia was is that it took some years for eastern parts of the country to realise that a revolution had actually taken place.[citation needed]
The February Revolution was followed in the same year by the October Revolution, bringing about Bolshevik rule and a change in Russia's social structure, while also paving the way for the USSR. Two revolutions were required in order to change the composition of the country: the first overthrew the Tsar, and the second instituted a new form of government.
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ooops. Yes, Finnland did sign a peace treaty with Russia.
in 1947.
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in 1947.
Yup, but that was another war and another peace treaty :)
Finland was busy, it fought 3 wars during WW2.
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And what's the lesson of those wars? Never fight Finland, e.g. the Winter War:
Finland
Strength
250,000 men
30 tanks
130 aircraft[1][2]
Russia
1,000,000 men
6,541 tanks[3]
3,800 aircraft[4][5]
Casualties and losses:
Finland
26,662 dead
39,886 wounded
1,000 captured
Russia
126,875 dead or missing
264,908 wounded
5,600 captured
2,268+ tanks
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The Fins must have been using aimbot. :noid
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There was a funny event who chain reacted into WW2, and was a one-man's thought.
At the beginning of WWI, a German captain sailed his battlecruiser to Turkey and managed therewith to get the Turks to the German side. Had it been the other way around, Germany would have lost much before, thereby changing the whole affair of WWI....
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That kinda makes no sense
Tronsky
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Funny but this very question came up in post WW-ll war crimes prosecutions in Asia.
The Americans, specifically Douglas MacArthur, wanted to avoid any prosecutions of the Japanese royal family even tho they were guilty as sin. Most of all the Emperor and his uncle, the one who commanded at the rape of Nanking. The reasons for this was Political expediency. MacArthur wanted the cooperation of Hirohito for his occupation forces and most of all the adaptation of his new constitution. MacArthur rightly saw Japan as the new front line in the next war with communism and he wanted internal stability in the new Japanese Democracy. To the Japanese Hirohito was the equivalent of Jesus to Christians and without his help MacArthur knew he would fail in the reconstruction of Asia.
One of the reasons he used for not prosecuting war crimes for the most heinous Japanese actions, the ones during their rape of Asia, was that it occurred during a "different war" and that WW-ll didn't actually start until 1 Sept. '39. So there was no trials for Nanking, the rape of Korea, the comfort woman, or even the chem/bio experiments of unit 731, "we wanted their records and cooperation for weapons development". MacArthur's reasoning was that these crimes happened during a "different war, one between ancient Asian peoples". The whole episode was a shameful chapter in American history. Even if it was a necessary one.
But if you asked 100 Historians when WW-ll started I bet most would say 1 Sept. '39. During the period right after the conflict I'd say 99 out of 100 would have said that.
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I think the point is being missed here.
We "label" historical events so that we have a framework to discuss, write, debate, remember, ect those events. We have a need to catelog them so we can carry on a discourse about those events. Thats it.
"World War 2", is simply an easy term for the historical time of September 1st 1939-August 15th 1945 (VJ Day).
...If everybody decided on their own to declare what the dates were, it just muddies things up. Thats not to say you cant have a debate on the origins of WW2, but for purposes of Western History, the dates have been "decided on" already. Its not open to debate. At least not in the context of historians.
Its like asking why the planet Venus is called Venus. Answer: because thats what we decided to name it.
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There was a funny event who chain reacted into WW2, and was a one-man's thought.
At the beginning of WWI, a German captain sailed his battlecruiser to Turkey and managed therewith to get the Turks to the German side. Had it been the other way around, Germany would have lost much before, thereby changing the whole affair of WWI....
Germany had been nurturing good relations with Turkey for many years before WW1. The Kaiser even wore a fez during some state visits to Istanbul. Moreover, with England and Turkey both wanting control over Egypt and the middle east, they were natural enemies.
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My favorite part of all this was the signing of the Kellog-Briand Pact of 1929.
Had those two not signed that, only God knows what cereal would be like today.
:salute Capn' Crunch
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I think the point is being missed here.
We "label" historical events so that we have a framework to discuss, write, debate, remember, ect those events. We have a need to catelog them so we can carry on a discourse about those events. Thats it.
"World War 2", is simply an easy term for the historical time of September 1st 1939-August 15th 1945 (VJ Day).
...If everybody decided on their own to declare what the dates were, it just muddies things up. Thats not to say you cant have a debate on the origins of WW2, but for purposes of Western History, the dates have been "decided on" already. Its not open to debate. At least not in the context of historians.
Its like asking why the planet Venus is called Venus. Answer: because thats what we decided to name it.
Nice post Squire. Like stuff like this. No merge, ho, or whining. BBS should not be a MA substitute.
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I posted this topice to see what most of you believe when the war started. There is really no right or wrong answer, alothough most people say it started in 1939. The quesion is just like many other quesions that we look at and just decied what to believe.
I am glade i am surounded by you guys. Getting a bit tried of these dam kids thinking WWII happen in the 60s or "was there a WWII". :furious
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I think the point is being missed here.
We "label" historical events so that we have a framework to discuss, write, debate, remember, ect those events. We have a need to catelog them so we can carry on a discourse about those events. Thats it.
"World War 2", is simply an easy term for the historical time of September 1st 1939-August 15th 1945 (VJ Day).
...If everybody decided on their own to declare what the dates were, it just muddies things up. Thats not to say you cant have a debate on the origins of WW2, but for purposes of Western History, the dates have been "decided on" already. Its not open to debate. At least not in the context of historians.
Its like asking why the planet Venus is called Venus. Answer: because thats what we decided to name it.
I disagree, although I do agree that naming is important for understanding what is going on here. My analogy would be this:
We call the one hemisphere of Venus "Venus," and give the other half a different name. That's what it's like when we call 1939-1945 "WWII."
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how about we let skuzzy give us the definative answer?
;)
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I'm against the 1941 as the start year, because the USA did participate in the war efforts before the year for example by selling weapons to countries at war. IIRC the US legislation did not allow weapon sales to countries at war.
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Case in point, by all rights the Napoleonic Wars, or the Mongol Invasions of Europe could have been called "World Wars".
...its just a label.
The Russians called it the "Great Patriotic War", and to them, it didnt start untill June 22nd 1941.
Anyways it seems there are two argumenets here; one is the origins, the second is the subjective "start" date, which will remain, well, subjective.
We are all entitled to our opinions I guess.
Im calling WW2 "That Big War After WW1" and saying it started on the first Monday after September 1st 1939, because all big wars should start on a Monday. There. ;)
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When the 'Germans' bombed Pearl Harbor.
Next question.
Bestist answer so far! :rofl :aok Gawd I loved that movie...
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Generally, I think WWI and WWII were one war,
with a breathing space to create a new generation of
cannon fodder...
But following that logic, the european civil war had been
going on since the fall of the roman empire... One war
just fed into another, over and over thru the centuries..
For conversation sake, I go with Sept 1st/2nd 1939...
Just like most ppl do...
RC
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1st sept was planned for WW2, do not forget that.
The Germans had the deadline from Britain and France, - "don't touch Poland or we go war".
They chuckled and went on.
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1st sept was planned for WW2, do not forget that.
The Germans had the deadline from Britain and France, - "don't touch Poland or we go war".
They chuckled and went on.
On September 17th, 1939 Poland was invaded on its eastern border by the Soviet Union.
:noid
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It started when the germans bombed pearl harbor :rock
Heres my reference to prove it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI&feature=related
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Yes, I like how a lot of these answers require the entry of the United States for it to be a legit "world war." They really do a number on us in sophomore history, don't they. :devil
I answer "whenver Japan invaded China," because it's a clear beginning for a chain of military events that ended in 1945. It's a mistake to get caught up in the semantics of "world war." We're not debating the meaning of words, but the location of a causal-chain of events in time.
I love how your opinion is always the correct one, even when it isn't.
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World War II had no exact beginning but clearly was in progress with the German invasion of Poland in September 1939 ............................. ...
From September 1 1939 (Germany invades Poland) to August 8 1945 (Japan surrenders) would be what most people believe WWII timeline. 2222 Days. I ask you all what you think was the start of WWII, and you did. I am please that you all have a rich knowledge of history. However, the question I asked, “When did WWII started” may be a trick question. You see, with the events on invasions and declaration of war occur on different days or years. You never thought of the individual countries. Case example, WWII started for Manchuria in 1931 and ended 1945. Ethiopia saw the war in 1935 and ended 1944. It all depends what country you are. That is my opinion on when the war started. And I believe WWII was official when Nicaragua declared war on Rumania, Hungary, Bulgaria on Dec. 20, 1941. Reason is that’s was the last country to declare war and officially in it.
I bet on December 8th was Japans first of many, many bad days of the war. And take note, The Iroquois Nation dose have a separate government system and bill of rights from U.S. They too declared war on all the axis countries. They are the ONLY North American Indian Nation that has a system that U.S. recognized.
..............May 14, 1948 the state of Israel declared independence in accordance with the UN decision and this was followed by a war with the surrounding Arab states, which refused to accept the plan...........
The world war still goes on
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The casualties are not compareable...
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I disagree, although I do agree that naming is important for understanding what is going on here. My analogy would be this:
We call the one hemisphere of Venus "Venus," and give the other half a different name. That's what it's like when we call 1939-1945 "WWII."
Actually, your analogy is incorrect. The surface of Venus is smooth and broken by two "continents", one is named "Ishtar Terra" and the other is named "Aphrodite". Ishtar is the Northern Continent and Aphrodite is the Southern Continent.
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Nah, that sounds more like the ETO/PTO distinction to me. ;)
But, nice catch. I'll give you points for that one! :salute
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Nah, that sounds more like the ETO/PTO distinction to me. ;)
No, it's called you tried getting "into something" and weren't as informed as someone else. Laser and yourself seem to do it often these days.
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As if I didn't acknowledge that in the second line of my post that you didn't quote! :rofl
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As if I didn't acknowledge that in the second line of my post that you didn't quote! :rofl
No, you reluctantly acknowledged your glaring error. It's a matter of semantics.
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Ok, you win. I admit that Venus was a terrible choice and I shouldn't have forced squire's analogy. Happy? :lol
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schrodinger called. sez he found the other half of the cat.
just in case anybody was lookin.
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for the US, December 7,1941
-BigBOBCH
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for the US, December 7,1941
-BigBOBCH
Hmmm.. so when did WW2 start for the Swiss or the Swedes? Maybe WW2 never happend for them? :rolleyes:
If a party starts at 6 pm. but you arrive 2 hours later, does it mean that the party began at 8 pm? :p
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Hmmm.. so when did WW2 start for the Swiss or the Swedes? Maybe WW2 never happend for them?
For Swiss and Swedes, WW2 indeed never happened to them . Missed some history lessons ?
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For Swiss and Swedes, WW2 indeed never happened to them . Missed some history lessons ?
Misuse of the word "happened."
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TimRas... maybe it was you who missed English lessons, or reading comprehension classes ;) I did not write "to", but commented the preceding "for" statement.
Or maybe sarcasm is too complicated a style for your sense of humor. :rolleyes:
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ok, was the invasion if Kuwait by Iraq the "beginning" of WW3?
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Swiss and Sweden were neutral in WW2 although the Swiss had some scruffles with the LW. Doesn't change much about the starting date.
Bear in mind, that on the 1st of September 1939, all of a sudden MILLIONS of troops are on the move (Well at least hundreds of thousands) as well as thousands of aircraft and people are falling by thousands every day. A very different reality than on the 31'st ofg August. 1939.
The first day or two in Poland would probably have brought more dead than Pearl harbour.....from the top of my head.