Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zigrat on January 23, 2001, 06:44:00 PM
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to only have spawning available for 1 out of every 5 minutes?
ie "open" fields are open during an hour minues 1,6,11,16,21,26,31,36 etcera
if yuou die during one of these minutes, u can immediately respawn, but otherwise u must wait until nxt respawn period (maximum of 5 minutes) to spawn
would promote teamwork imo
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I suggested something very similar once on AGW. Was flamed heavily. The less-than-5-minute-per-sortie goobers are just as vocal a minority as the one-plane one-dimensional-skillset crybabies. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 01-23-2001).]
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Limiting spawning in any way is a bad idea, IMO.
AKDejaVu
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Yes, I would object.
eskimo
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not talking about crazy stuff like 1 life or 1 death per hour
just spawning once every 5 minutes
5 minutes aint a long time
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Zigrat, have you seen any discussions on making a pilot wait 5 minutes after being killed? Pretty fricking violent. Now make a pilot wait even if he lives.
I do not believe it is a good idea.
AKDejaVu
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wont always be 5 minutes, thats a maximum. average would be 2 minutes,
what is 2 minutes for better game play?
what is the legitimate argument against such a thing?
i would be very opposed to spawning every hour or some such rediculous thing, but average of 2 minutes?
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I mentioned somthing similar in "another sim", and got about the same response Zig. I'd like to see plane types and numbers available limited by field. i.e., an airfield can only spawn xx number of SpitIX's an hour, or a vh can only spawn xx number of Ostwinds an hour. So, if someone kamikazes 50 Ostwinds in an hour, that field's supply is used up, and they have to use something else until the next "tick." I think it would promote using more planes in the plane set, and discourage kamikaze behavior. But, the "I gotta have my plane and can't fly nothing else" crowd will always shoot down an idea like that. Just like the "I want to fly anything from anywhere at any time" crowd will shoot down your idea (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
(http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=view_photo&ID_Community=Raubspics&ID_Topic=2&ID_Message=30)
[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-23-2001).]
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Bad idea.
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Rape, pillage, then burn...
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The argument against such a thing is fundamental. Limiting the ability of someone to spawn from a base causes dead time. Its like radio dead time. Some people will tend to log off. That is bad.
That is how simple the argument is.
What is arguable, is if it will actually enhance gameplay. Afterall, you've now created a 5 minute window to get things done. I'm sure that won't be gamed in any way.. like someone hitting a base right after the respawn window since they know that nobody can spawn if they didn't a min ago. Things like that would be unlikely.. right?
Success promotes teamwork. Pilots promote teamwork. That is where things happen. The game wouldn't be promoting anything.. it would be FORCING it. That is never good.
AKDejaVu
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i understand your position dejavu but i dont agree (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)tho there definitely would be possibilities for gaming it as u said with base strikes and the like.
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Try 1 minute. That would slow insta-spawn dweebery during field capture, but wouldn't really affect the general playing public.
[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 01-23-2001).]
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Limited spawns work in scenarios, that's just about it. You can't limit spawning in an arena that's built around fast, furious AND FUN!! If you do, it's not fast nor is it fun waiting for your turn to be allowed to go up again. If you have a problem capturing bases, may I suggest you take down the HANGARS first then strafe down the FUEL TANKS and drive your little goon on in there. You not only enforce limited spawning, but you deny it for those that are trying to defend that field.
Problem solved, no one gets upset.
-SW
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While I don't exactly like the means, I like the ends. Having 15 guys all up at the same time would be pretty cool. It's the 5 minute wait that kills this idea. There's just no way.
I still think that creating some kinda OC as they have in AW would be very cool. It's been argued by HTC that talking on the vicinity channel is basically the same thing. Not at all. Getting killed then winding up back in a room where everyone's handle is displayed, and a text buffer is opened would lead to a lot more teamwork (and commradery etc.) than the current situation where yer standing alone in some tower.
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A used to have this multi player game called ShockForce (I think). It was alot like AH only it used futuristic hover-tanks.
Anyway, each time u died u had to wait 1 minute to respawn and I thot it worked very well. You just took a few seconds to size up the radar situation and watched the counter tick away thinking 'just a few more seconds and i can launch'. There was also strat stuff that could be accomplished in the towewr.
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No reason to limit spawning. It would be like telling new players yeah you can pay $30.00 but you can't fly everytime you want.
Mav
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bad idea
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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS
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I can see the newbie questions piling up on this.
"It won't let me fly!"
"Uh, hello?"
Moves to Rook.
Voss 13th T.A.S.
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Well, I'll be waiting for you all to Spawn, I'll have a Nice 500Kg Egg under my Belly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) <KABOOOOM>
"56 Kill by Mass" .... I can already see it in the Buffer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Oh, yeah... I forgot to tell, you'll prolly have 200 other Dweebs doing the same.
Also, think about the poeple connected through PHONE (In Europe, those on Modem or ISDN still have to pay their phone charges...and that's billed on TIME.) Do you realy think they will aceppt paying for sitting in the tower ?
I see your point Zig, and like the "org" side of it, but it will be "played" with (RE: the Egg kill) and will be whined about..($$$/s)
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MASS/SAW
click HERE (http://eismeer.port5.com/) for info on III./JG 5 Eismeer
"kindergarden must be closed... all those little girls running around screaming..."
-Fd ski
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IMO a better idea would be to just have all guns deactivated for 30 seconds after spawn.
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I object.
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perhaps we could have an Amish section of the map where fun would be banned and all kinds of cool ideas that make things tedious and boring could be tried?
lazs
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
to only have spawning available for 1 out of every 5 minutes?
ie "open" fields are open during an hour minues 1,6,11,16,21,26,31,36 etcera
if yuou die during one of these minutes, u can immediately respawn, but otherwise u must wait until nxt respawn period (maximum of 5 minutes) to spawn
would promote teamwork imo
I see what your trying to do but you can't do that on a game like this. There are to many people with limited time that play. It takes long enough to make a bomb run with out having to wait five minutes to do it. It would be fine for those on H2H setting up a small arena with friends. They all agree to spend the time doing it. There are just to many people from to varied of backgrounds to do something like that on here. Hell I would be pissed if I was a bomber pilot and I was waiting for a respawn and had to take a leek and missed it.
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Originally posted by Maverick:
No reason to limit spawning. It would be like telling new players yeah you can pay $30.00 but you can't fly everytime you want.
Mav
And there within lies the business case aspect of it...you won't see it happen as long as the tools exist to limit the spawning by the power of yourself, taking out the VH, field, whatever that is spawning.
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Not a bad idea Zig...will HTC implement it? Your guess is as good as mine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Ice
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Hey lazs,
Ever notice that you always enter a contructive argument with an ill-timed post that only is there to incite a flame?
I have.
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* Forrest Gump mode ON *
Aces High is like a can of worms...
You open the BB and you never know what you get..
* Forrest Gump mode OFF *
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lol MrSid (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) So true.
I would prefer a time limit in respawning from THAT particular filed that I'd just taken off from before subsequently getting shot down or crashing.
I do not like the idea however of waiting any lenght of time in whihc I cannot do anything. If I have to wait 5 or 10 minuites to respond from field A1, for instance, I may choose to gun on a CV or drive an M3 somwhere in the mean time. I should be able to, it's the MA.
-Westy
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Zig, getting a little frustrated with 1 or 2 people spawning constantly at a base and defending it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I hated that too.
I don't think people like to wait to spawn, but that doesn't mean they should necessarily be able to spawn at the same base over and over. Variation on Zig's idea, limit the spawn repeat rate only at the one base where you got killed. If you get 5 minutes wheels up time, then you can spawn instantly again, if you don't, then you have to move to another base or wait until the 5 minutes are up.
Or something like that, not sure about the time, just used 5 minutes as an example.
It wouldn't stop you from spawning instantly, just not at the same base over and over unless you managed to actually get some flying time in in the mean time. Timer starts at wheels up and even most furballs between fields take basically 5 minutes to get to and fight in. thus it wouldn't hurt the between field furball. The base defense spawning would be limited though.
Just a thought.
-Soda
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Isn't there already a re-spawning time limit?
I think it's 15 minutes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Seriously Zig,
If we didn't already have the means to limit re-spawning by taking down the hangars then I would agree with you.
But we DO have the capabilities at our disposal.
Cobra
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Originally posted by lazs:
perhaps we could have an Amish section of the map where fun would be banned and all kinds of cool ideas that make things tedious and boring could be tried?
lazs
heh lazs - you would see handles like 'zebediah' and 'ezekial' and those balsa wood fighters would really hold their energy states!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Only been playing a couple of days <big fun> but seems like we spend enough time waiting in the game as it is!
Map is huge and usually a 10 min flight at least to any action, driving triple that, so I think having to wait even longer to respawn wouldn't sound like fun to me anyway! :-)
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reason i want spawn limit is not so much to stop vulching
its more to make ppl join missions, since they will have a "down time" period in which to get organized.
but i guess it is forcing a behavior pattern.
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Interesting idea zigrat, maybe something like this:
If you're shot down within 2 minutes of spawning 3 times in a row, you have to wait X minute(s) before rolling again.
I've been defending a base and done the 'ol roll the B26 round the barnyard like a go-cart trying to kill drunks. This just shouldn't be allowed as an acceptable field defense in my opinion.
Also, I think the dropping of ordinance should not be allowed til the bombers wheels are off the ground (hint, hint)
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That's the problem Zig, you can't MAKE people join missions. No matter what the down time is. People can be encouraged to, but making them join will never work.
In that vain though, Zig, your missions in Rookland are the best, and I've got a couple ideas of mine own, but I need you (the butcher birds) Cave's guys and my guys to pull off some really neat all Waffe raids.
Cobra
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LOL Hblair. Thought I was the only one that pulled that nasty little 'Saigon Surprise' gaming trick. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(Hang, desperate to hold a falling field taxis B26 from BH to maproom amongst stream of invading troopers, opens bomb doors and toggles bombs)
"scratch one capture".
War is hell.
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Originally posted by Westy:
I would prefer a time limit in respawning from THAT particular filed that I'd just taken off from before subsequently getting shot down or crashing.
Until I saw Westy's idea I thought, "Bad idea." This however would be PERFECT!!!
One of the biggest pains in the bellybutton is suppressing a field while taking it only to have one player continually up from the field over and over.
The biggest problem with the no flight for 5 minutes rule is as Westy stated, no one wants to sit in the tower for 5 minutes and do nothing. If however, a timer for that field is started from the time you spawn on a runway, the idea would be that you couldnt respawn from that field for 5 minutes after you spawn. Normally, we spend more than 5 minutes climbing to alt before we get engaged so most of the time this limit wouldnt affect us.
The time it WOULD affect us is when a field is being attacked. If you roll down a runway oblivious to the vulching hoards above you, tough luck. You wait until the 5 minute period is up to respawn from that field or grab a plane from the next closest field.
That would accomplish what I think everyone is looking for here.
-Ding
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hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I like it Ding & Westy.
<S!> Good idea.
Hang
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Yeee ha!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I finally had a full term thought (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
One minor problem still exists. What is the trip for the timer to begin. How does the host know your respawning to prevent a base capture? Would the conditions be that all ack is down at the intended target and a pilot then has to be subsequently shot down X amount of times before they get thier geer up or failed to reach XX altitude?
It's obvious to us when a person(s) is respawn ing repeatedly to prolong a base from being captured. But how does the host?
-Westy
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Ummm.... Guys....
As others have pointed out, we already HAVE a means to prevent repeated spawning: kill the hangars.
The question is: is it now too hard to capture a field? I don't think so. Takes a little planning and teamwork, but it happens.
The problem with a limited respawn is that fields would be way too easy to capture during off-peak hours. Two Chogs to kill ack and vultch a few defenders, and the field is "closed".
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It's a good idea...BUT!
Some pay for their internet usage by the unit, meaning that although AH has a flat rate, some are being charged by their ISP for those five minutes of down time.
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No. Period.
I don't have much time to fly as it is.
I log on and then have to sit for 4 minutes and 30 seconds becaus eI happened to miss a spawn time?
Westy's idea looks better...until you examine it.
I have logged on and seen situations where the Rooks (I fly for the Rooks, I'm sure Bishes and Knits have had this happen too)were down to 4 or 5 fields, and only one of those was still capable of launching aircraft because the other countries were bombing the hangars at the other fields. Mind you, they weren't trying to end the war, they were just denying us the use of those fields. Crippling a country and then screwing all of its players this way would be too easy. It'd make us "limited time" folks log off pretty quick, be us Rooks, Bishops or Knights.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Sisu
-Karnak
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Guys, I think the spirit of this thread is to try to cure the problems of a field capture gone bad because of the dude who spawns a jillion and a half times.
He spawns this end of runway..
bang bang, he's dead.
He spawns the other end...
bang, dead.
In the hangar, he's rolling...
strafed, dead.
He throws a fake on other end of runway, then gets back in tower.
He throws a quick fake in the hangar.
Here a spawn, there a spawn, everywhere a spawn spawn.
Then he sits in the tower, like the shark on jaws, waiting for the goonie, quick spawn in B26, in hangar! full throttle go-cart course to the goonie!
Get him! Get him! he manages to kill one drunk.
Field capture shot.
Sure, its better to kill all hangars, matter of fact I very rarely will even consider bringing a goon to a field where any towers are standing. But not all field captures go according to plan...
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 01-24-2001).]
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What is this "mission" thing? sounds kinda Amish.
lazs
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Guys, I think the spirit of this thread is to try to cure the problems of a field capture gone bad because of the dude who spawns a jillion and a half times.
I've never seen someone spawn at a field where the hangers were down. The means are already there to prevent this from happening.
People just want to make it easier to capture a base. That, too, is a bad idea.
AKDejaVu
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Bingo, Deja.
I hate to be at the receiving end of a 'spawner', but hey, just means someone forgot to DO THEIR JOB.
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I disagree completely. My dime, my play, my mission. It’s my money I should be able to play how I want to. With that said, I try and join all the missions if I am not otherwise already engaged at the time. This of course brings about the whole “the game is designed around teamwork” argument that I’m not going to jump into.
Also, it would have destroyed all the fun I had the other night defending A34 myself. Yeah I was out numbered but still capable of killing drunks on the ground, low C47’s and anything else that was in the way. I’m sure I was a hell of pain in the arse and if I had to wait to re-spawn even though there was a hanger, fuel, and ordinance at my disposal… Well hell that’s just giving an advantage to the other team for not doing the job right the first time IMHO.
** my apologies to Ripsnort, I think he was in an Osti for a few minutes before we finally got overwhelmed
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Originally posted by Westy:
One minor problem still exists. What is the trip for the timer to begin. How does the host know your respawning to prevent a base capture? Would the conditions be that all ack is down at the intended target and a pilot then has to be subsequently shot down X amount of times before they get thier geer up or failed to reach XX altitude?
Nope much more simple than that. As soon as your tires hit the runway a record is written to the server stating you took off at time X from field Y. When you get killed and attempt to respawn, your flight record is checked and if the field you are taking off from is field Y, you cannot take off until the current time is X+5 (or whatever the spawn variable is).
If current time < X+5 you cannot respawn from field Y but must spawn at some other field. When you take off from field Z, another record is written to the server recording where you took off from and the time you spawned.
Pretty simple to state in terms to understand...dunno about the implementation in effort.
-Ding
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
People just want to make it easier to capture a base. That, too, is a bad idea.
Actually, Im not so concerned about making capturing more difficult...I think this would be a great way to urge people to fly smarter (hence less HOs...more teamwork). By placing a bigger emphasis on staying alive, people will be more apt to partake in missions, fly with friendlies and to avoid high risk situations.
Just a thought (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I dont have a major problem with the way it is now.
-Ding
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Hmmm...
I think Dejavu et al. is right.... if you don't want multiple spawners, you only need to kill the hangers. Furthermore, allowing spawning up to the point where the hangers/fuel depot are down only evens the score for the defenders.
Last, I don't think I need any more incentive to stay alive: it's tough enough as it is.
Jay.
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To address the topic from a different angle.
When the guns of a field are dead the planes spawn only in revetments at the end of taxi ways 1k from the map room. The revetments provide excellent protection from straffing but are pointing away from the map room and it will take quite a bit of ground driving to get them pointed correctly.
Or
A little elevation on the base. banks that make ground level fire very difficult. But goon landing very difficult as well.
Of
Goons can be directed to take over an ack. the whole lot disapear and you get an auto ack that has 1000 rounds but the kills are not awarded to anyone.(or a player directed ack if you prefer)
Works both ways though. The enemy can rejuvinate acks the same way.
Turn of guns for all AC on the ground. They only exist to promote spawning. If you can convince pyro that spawning is so detrimental to the game I bet it would be easy to turn it off. The vast majority of spawners never leave the ground..
Seems lots of game play things could be done to change the vulch and spawnathon. If we really want to.