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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sonicblu on October 15, 2008, 03:11:44 PM

Title: p51 the new la7
Post by: Sonicblu on October 15, 2008, 03:11:44 PM
It seems like more 51s that usual flying BNZ tactics. The other night no matter where I flew there was a gaggle of them BNZ'n.

Oh wait let me clearify Bnz in this thread.  dive in from outer space spray and pray and climb back out till the icon dissapears. I is amazing how many of the persons that normaly complain about this kind of flying in AH were doing it. I am all for flying a plane to its strengths but come on guys.

You guys have to spray and pray because your plane has to be shaking so hard in the dive you cant get a gun solutions. :rofl
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Steve on October 15, 2008, 03:24:47 PM
 :frown:

The 51 is overused and overrrated.  I had a 51 do that to Agent and I the other night.  We were 2 v 3, counting the pony, on the deck with the spit and 190 while the 51 zoomed. The guy would make a pass and literally fly to the edge of icon range  before returning.  He only managed 3 of these before we killed his two teammates then I went after him. *sigh*

".... the new la7."   Makes me cringe.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: bongaroo on October 15, 2008, 03:27:55 PM
Maybe a phase but overall you'll always see p51s zooming and running, la7s trying to chace them down, spit16s and nikis trying to get stuff to simply turn in flat circles.  add HOing and if one side catches the other off guard vulching.

It's the MAs baby!   :rolleyes:

Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Tr1gg22 on October 15, 2008, 03:34:07 PM
It seems like more 51s that usual flying BNZ tactics. The other night no matter where I flew there was a gaggle of them BNZ'n.

Oh wait let me clearify Bnz in this thread.  dive in from outer space spray and pray and climb back out till the icon dissapears. I is amazing how many of the persons that normaly complain about this kind of flying in AH were doing it. I am all for flying a plane to its strengths but come on guys.

You guys have to spray and pray because your plane has to be shaking so hard in the dive you cant get a gun solutions. :rofl
Been like that every since I have been playing since tour 72 or 74 some were in there :aok I have not noticed any difference in this time that I have been playing in the game play. Same game and same ole complaints :salute
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: whiteman on October 15, 2008, 03:39:22 PM
The guy would make a pass and literally fly to the edge of icon range  before returning.  He only managed 3 of these

I've been seeing more yaks pulling that of late with the 51's. Then while i extend out to try and get some E to match theirs since they drop from the moon, I'll see a run comment on 200. Of course without fail after were even in the E department they exit stage left.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 15, 2008, 03:44:33 PM
It seems like more 51s that usual flying BNZ tactics. The other night no matter where I flew there was a gaggle of them BNZ'n.

Oh wait let me clearify Bnz in this thread.  dive in from outer space spray and pray and climb back out till the icon dissapears. I is amazing how many of the persons that normaly complain about this kind of flying in AH were doing it. I am all for flying a plane to its strengths but come on guys.

You guys have to spray and pray because your plane has to be shaking so hard in the dive you cant get a gun solutions. :rofl

Why do players blame a plane for the pilots bad flying habits?  

The problem isn't the P-51D, it's a BnZ style fighter and not an angles fighter so one shouldn't be surprised to see one use BnZ tactics.  The problem is players not knowing how to BnZ, of which unfortunately you ran across two players that are like that and just happened to be flying P-51Ds.  

If  properly done, BnZ is a very aggressive tactic designed to gain an angle on the bandit by forcing them to deplete their energy by having to avoid your repeated attacks.  If done correctly, it shouldn't take more than 3 passes to kill the bogie unless the target has the knowledge and experience to defend against BnZ attacks.  When I see players trying to BnZ and zoom away outside of icon range, I can't help but laugh.  All they are doing is letting me regain whatever energy and altitude I lost in breaking from their pass and eventually I will equal out the states and get the kill.  It's those that know how to BnZ (these guys are the ones that won't extend beyond d2.0 to prevent you from regaining E and altitude) then I know I'm going to be in for a hard time.


ack-ack


 
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: 1Boner on October 15, 2008, 03:55:23 PM
I've been seeing more yaks pulling that of late with the 51's. Then while i extend out to try and get some E to match theirs since they drop from the moon, I'll see a run comment on 200. Of course without fail after were even in the E department they exit stage left.


I've noticed a few more Yaks than normal lately.

Sooo as I prepared to chase down a Yak (mistakenly treating it like just another 51) the other night, imagine my surprise when it turned in to fight me.

It was Gixer, I was dead in aprox.10 seconds.

Lesson learned.

<S> Gixer :salute
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: BnZ on October 15, 2008, 06:56:57 PM
People complain about being bnz'ed I think because the cold hard fact is there are two possibilities.

1. That P-51 knows what he is doing, and he bags you.

2. If he knows what he is doing but is having a "bad gunnery" night, you probably aren't going to catch him once you equalize the E. Even if the pilot is terrible, he will probably be able to dive and run successfully. Thus for the bnz'ed, it is mostly risk with little chance of being rewarded.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: VansCrew1 on October 15, 2008, 07:19:28 PM
It seems like more 51s that usual flying BNZ tactics. The other night no matter where I flew there was a gaggle of them BNZ'n.

Oh wait let me clearify Bnz in this thread.  dive in from outer space spray and pray and climb back out till the icon dissapears. I is amazing how many of the persons that normaly complain about this kind of flying in AH were doing it. I am all for flying a plane to its strengths but come on guys.

You guys have to spray and pray because your plane has to be shaking so hard in the dive you cant get a gun solutions. :rofl

The P51 will never be the "new" la. Most of the amateurs fly the P51 because they hear so much about them seen the on dogfights ext. Most of the people do as Steve said in an earlier post. They make one pass extend out of icon range or till you turn away and come back towards you. Also a huge majority of that spray and pray from 800 out as there screaming in from space doing 500mph. Out of every one that flies the P51 only a small percentage of them know what there doing and how to fly the plane.
The P51 will never be the "new" LA because the P51 actually takes skill to fly and fight.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Gixer on October 15, 2008, 07:35:03 PM

I've noticed a few more Yaks than normal lately.

Sooo as I prepared to chase down a Yak (mistakenly treating it like just another 51) the other night, imagine my surprise when it turned in to fight me.

It was Gixer, I was dead in aprox.10 seconds.

Lesson learned.

<S> Gixer :salute

 :lol thanks, every now and then I actually hit something.  :D

 :salute


<S>...-Gixer
 
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: dedalos on October 15, 2008, 08:29:35 PM

The P51 will never be the "new" LA because the P51 actually takes skill to fly and fight.

 :rofl :rofl :rofl You know, I pay the $15 a month mostly for chan 200 and the BBS. 
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Steve on October 15, 2008, 09:15:48 PM
:rofl :rofl :rofl You know, I pay the $15 a month mostly for chan 200 and the BBS. 

Ya, only planes you fly require skill to get kills in.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Bucky73 on October 15, 2008, 10:14:34 PM
"skill" in a video game




ALWAYS cracks me up when I hear that :rofl :rofl


 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Shane on October 15, 2008, 10:17:45 PM
"skill" in a video game
ALWAYS cracks me up when I hear that :rofl :rofl
 :rolleyes:

i rely on talent, myself...

 :noid
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: bongaroo on October 15, 2008, 10:51:11 PM
luck here.   :aok
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Chalenge on October 15, 2008, 10:56:21 PM
I rely on experience which is why I suck in everything else.  :aok
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: uptown on October 16, 2008, 06:57:41 AM
Yep, let em' fly out out icon range. While they do that you gain speed or alt. The fellas that do that think they're being smart but really they're setting up for their own death.  :D
As the old saying goes:"keep your friends close and your enemys closer". :salute
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: dedalos on October 16, 2008, 12:43:21 PM
Ya, only planes you fly require skill to get kills in.  :rolleyes:

Easy killer, the same applies to what he said.  Speed and alt are not skillzzz
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 16, 2008, 12:46:41 PM
Easy killer, the same applies to what he said.  Speed and alt are not skillzzz

Coming from someone who can be found in the Chog, La-7 and N1K. :rofl

Couldn't resist. :devil
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: dedalos on October 16, 2008, 01:00:03 PM
Coming from someone who can be found in the Chog, La-7 and N1K. :rofl

Couldn't resist. :devil

Or a 110, a p40, a Ki61, Yak, Il2, bla bla bla.  What is your point?  You have to take into account playing stiles also.  I fly the lala to catch P50runs.  The fly P50runs so they can run.  See the diff?
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 16, 2008, 01:19:17 PM
Yeah, I admit it was a cheap shot. :D
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Shane on October 16, 2008, 01:32:15 PM
Yeah, I admit it was a cheap shot. :D

what else should we expect of someone who flys LW and cherrypicks?

 :noid
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Yenny on October 16, 2008, 01:54:08 PM
what else should we expect of someone who flys LW and cherrypicks?

 :noid

you just haven't meet some of the 109s yet =)
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2008, 05:15:29 PM
Easy killer, the same applies to what he said.  Speed and alt are not skillzzz

I missed where someone said they were, sorry.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Noir on October 16, 2008, 07:47:08 PM
P51 comes at 15K, gets owned after 2 HO tries, then dives to the deck. An usual night in the MA.

You get used to it...the problem is when you meet a 51 that knows how to fight...can be surprising.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2008, 07:51:12 PM

You get used to it...the problem is when you meet a 51 that knows how to fight...can be surprising.
:salute Sirnuk3, I mentioned this in another thread. I think  a 51 that is willing to turn and fight sometimes catches the other guy off guard  enough to give him the initiative in a fight.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: dedalos on October 16, 2008, 08:33:50 PM
I missed where someone said they were, sorry.

About what?  :rofl
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: FLOTSOM on October 16, 2008, 08:43:43 PM
:frown:


".... the new la7."   Makes me cringe.

what new LA-7??????????????????????? it got a touch of a dress up. but that is all i see new about it. i fly that crate regularly so i think if it had been enhanced i would have noticed it.

if you guys are getting special ones and are keeping them hidden from us lala dweebs I'M TELLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: dedalos on October 17, 2008, 07:57:08 AM
I missed where someone said they were, sorry.

Ahhh, my bad. You want to say you are sorry for coming after me after I responded to VanScrew.  I get it.  No problem bud.  Apology accepted  :aok
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Steve on October 17, 2008, 10:50:37 AM
Ahhh, my bad. You want to say you are sorry for coming after me after I responded to VanScrew.  I get it.  No problem bud.  Apology accepted  :aok

I didn't come after you at all.  I think you are reading more vitriol into my post than was intended.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Sonicblu on October 20, 2008, 08:01:45 PM
Ack Ack I never blamed it on the plane. YOU made my point for me. It is the pilot flying the 51s that is why I said i can understand flying a "plane" to its strengths. Then I said you guys.

The point is Of course the pilots, that should be -understood- to even a 1st grader. I just notice that "they" (which means pilot) are in the 51 more than usuall.

I didn't complain about 38 pilots that hang around in the mid war and pounce anything they see below them.

I actually have a little respect for ah um them because they at least have very good SA and just don't let anyone up to them. Must be a strain on the eyes though looking for that little black dot to stay above even before the plane is in icon range.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 20, 2008, 08:10:47 PM

I didn't complain about 38 pilots that hang around in the mid war and pounce anything they see below them.


It's been my experience that the dedicated P-38s are the ones you usually don't see above anyone else in the MW.  YMMV.

Quote
Ack Ack I never blamed it on the plane. YOU made my point for me. It is the pilot flying the 51s that is why I said i can understand flying a "plane" to its strengths. Then I said you guys.

Then you should have worded your original post better.

It seems like more 51s that usual flying BNZ tactics. The other night no matter where I flew there was a gaggle of them BNZ'n.


ack-ack
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Sonicblu on October 20, 2008, 08:55:58 PM
Please read for context that will obviously give you the info you need. Instead of taking and highlighting quotes and misapplying them.

Can you lock your own thread i can see I made a mistake. Oh wait your just trolling. S nice one you got me.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Getback on October 20, 2008, 09:24:31 PM
i rely on talent, myself...

 :noid

I rely on others lack of talent  :rofl :rofl

It seems silly to me for a p51 to soar out of range when his targets are engaged. However, I wasn't there.
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: 96Delta on October 20, 2008, 11:41:07 PM
I say bring back the RV8 with the gatlings!

Boy those were sweet rides.  :rock

(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb209/StracCop/Rv8680x510.gif)
Title: Re: p51 the new la7
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 21, 2008, 12:12:03 AM
Please read for context that will obviously give you the info you need. Instead of taking and highlighting quotes and misapplying them.

Can you lock your own thread i can see I made a mistake. Oh wait your just trolling. S nice one you got me.

Nobody is trolling, I was just responding to your post.  If you don't like the reply, well, I guess you shouldn't post.  That's all I'm gonna say to you, enjoy.


ack-ack