Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro on December 21, 2000, 12:44:00 AM
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Nuttz, I thought I talked to you about online the other day. We're just trying to get this version finished up and out of our way before we can move on to second tier projects. I'm not trying to blow you off any more than my mother who is currently visiting from New Hamphshire, but I do have things I need to get done at all costs and sacrifices. If some of us work Christmas Eve, that's fine, if some of us work Christmas day, that's fine too. Just as long as we can move forward. First thing is first, good things can follow.
Yeager, there are no flight modeling changes coming in this version aside from what has been previously mentioned. There are some performance quirks at altitude on the corsair, george, and spit, and maybe more where we have differences between our published speds and their real performance. It all looks to be fairly minor but will require a good amount of work to bring into alignment and I don't see that happening for the initial release. There are the aforementioned ordnance changes taking place with the N1K2's ammo load, drop tanks for the typhhie, and timed fuzed rockets on 21cm rockets.
Grunherz, you're going to have to start a new topic. Try to make lucidity win out of hyperbole. I couldn't even understand the the argument being put forth.
Funked- are you now back connected to the board using you normal isp?
The new dispersion stuff is just global, it's has nothing to do with one plane or another. I don't even know how much difference it will make. It's just a matter going from a model where shot distribution is even across the dispersion and one where it is weighted towards the center.
Do a lot of online flight simmers suffer from holiday blues or something? Many negative waves recently.
The market for whining sure dropped over the last decade. I used to have to pay 350 bucks a month to whine when nothing was going on for a long time. Now you get to pay 30 bucks a month(or maybe even nothing) to whine even when new stuff is being developed all the time.
These games are supposed to bring out the inner child in us. The kid that sat in cardboard boxes pretending to be flying a plane. The one who shelled empty coke cans on a pond with rocks and dirt clods to get it to sink under the massive artillery barrage. It's pretty cool that we can still do that in the privacy of our homes without having to look like fools to the general public. Sure beats sitting in a cubicle all day. But sometimes the other side of the child comes out, the one that craves attention, likes to cause trouble, made his mom have a nervous breakdown etc.
This place is like a bar. Most people come in to enjoy themselves and the company they keep while some come in looking for a fight. Don't look for fights. It's real stupid. Self-destruction is only fun until it's over.
Unfortunately, there is a real self destructive personality inherent to the flight-sim community. Most people don't want to realize it, but it's definitely there and has taken it's toll.
Think what you write, read what you write. Don't look at it as just text on a screen, it's more than that, it's how people see you.
So ends my ramblins for tonight. Tomorrow is a very big day and we shall see where we stand.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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105 tommorow????
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Well said Pyro,
and I can't add much more. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Happy holidays everyone.
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Amen.
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Pyro;
Give the crew a well deserved break.
What do I care. The family and I are going out of town for the next 8 days... AFK/C. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
0osik (my brother) and I are meeting Kraz (our cousin) in Seattle.
Happy Holidays to all!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
eskimo
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Pyro's reasoning is uber.
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The HTC crew must have one helluva support staff in their households, burning the midnight oil and probably getting the LOOK walking thru the doorway during the wee hours of the morning.
Thank for all the hard work HTC and family members
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 12-21-2000).]
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What can I say. I was a bottel baby (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Damn, Pyro sure summed it up well, i never thought of the inner child thing that way before. Good analogy, however whe i was a kid i always complained that my cardboard box was way overmodeled, and the cokecans were way too uber, i would hit them with 2 or four "shells" that were halve the size of the ship and it would not sink (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Merry X-mass HTC
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Nicely said (typed) Pyro!
I had major holiday depression. Too much stuff, too little time. We are getting alot of snow. Broke a shear pin in the snowblower, when and bought more, bought the wrong ones, had to go back to store. Well, you get the pitcure.
Later after my work was done, got online and had fun flying with Bikekil and Asmo over A13. Salute to both of them. Got some nice kills, went to bed and slept soundly!!
Thanks for the stress releiver HTC!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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HTC has been and continues to be the most responsive gaming company in the entire industry. You guys do an amazing amount of work for a small team. Merry Christmas! I hope the HTC crew gets a bit of time to spend with family this season. <S> guys.
To the AH community: How many updates have we had in a year? Think about it. There are 6 people working at HTC. Yeah, amazing isn't it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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So Pyro, when is 1.06 ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Just kidding... just kidding (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Btw, don't take anything you read here seriously. Lot of people see internet as a licence to be an amazinhunk.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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I wish HTC have another successfull year!
drop tanks for the typhhie
GREAT !
(in spite of the spelling error (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
and I promise I will not whine until next year (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<edit>
If some of us work Christmas Eve, that's fine, if some of us work Christmas day
I strongly disagree you as all normal human need rest and hollyday ! or you are UBER modeleled (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I can wait for 1.05, I prefer when from time to time you have fun with us in the MA
[This message has been edited by straffo (edited 12-21-2000).]
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I am guilty of stirring that pot with my intentional flames on the P51D, they were in jest, as I mentioned in a post, but none the less, uncalled for. My apologies to anyone I offended in my intentional pot-stirring posts regarding the P51D. My point was to 'flash the mirror' in some folks face, but alas, seems I may have offended some....
Happy Holidays to everyone....
Signed, a big kid!
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Tomorrow is a very big day and we shall see where we stand
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo.... ... the only joystick I have is between my legs.
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 12-21-2000).]
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Well said Pyro...frankly, I'm not sure how you guys keep plugging away day after day.
<Salute>
For everyone else...it's time to deep six the endless whining. You know who you are. Just let it go. If you can't say something in a ratitonal, constructive manner, then KEEP YOUR TRAP SHUT! It's that simple.
Constantly chipping away at the morale of HTC is not a good thing...and believe it or not, that is what all this whining does. I'm certain some moron will answer me with the tired "if they can't stand the heat.." BS...to those I will say this: look around at the boxed flight sim market. When you kill a teams passion, do you think they are willing to fight to continue to make games in an low selling genre?
Think about it.
-Smut
(a.k.a. CJ Martin, formerly of Jane's Combat Simulations - EA Baltimore)
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What you have seen from me lately is simply pent up frustration finally blowing off into the abyss. No big deal really.
All I want is for AcesHigh to BE great and STAY great!
I think I need a new vid card....
Love,
Yeager
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"Tomorrow is a very big day"..........
Wow that is a loaded statement! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Pyro and everyone at HTC, enjoy the holidays. Unless it is a show-stopping problem, don't work Christmas Eve or Christmas day. Real life should take precedence even over a job.
Happy Holidays all.
Fury
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Constantly chipping away at the morale of HTC is not a good thing...and believe it or not, that is what all this whining does.
Your kidding if a person/group has the self fortitude and ambitious to create the best product in their field you really think a scant few whiners would have any affect on morale. Doubt that severely. This is par for the course HTC has seen a lot worse. HT probably told Pyro that he noticed a few of the natives had taken off their grass skirts, I think Pyro just pointed that out.
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I'm hoping to heck all the folks at HTC have this weekend coming up off and an easy week following.
Thanks for helping to pacify the restless and worried Pyro.
-Westy
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Pyro,
Thanks for ramblin.
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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Well said Pyro.
Personally, I take this forum as a part of the game itself. Have my forefront apologies if I offend anyone.
Sooooo, here we go again: DEATH TO QUAKEGIRLS (http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/paladin/jesse3.gif)
Pepe
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Burnem!! burnem!! the whinin negative bastages that is!!
AKskurj
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Gawd I hope Torque gets a 'real' joystick for Christmas !!!
Kudos to the AH team and the finest online community in the industry.
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Gawd I hope Torque gets a 'real' joystick for Christmas !!!
Kudos to the AH team and the finest online community in the industry.
I may even have to invite ya'll up for skiing...
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GET BACK TO WORK!!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Merry Christmas HTC and all you other Flight sim junkies
(http://home.nc.rr.com/ammo/public.html/unw_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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Originally posted by Pyro:
Tomorrow is a very big day and we shall see where we stand.
Oh my!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
Thank you, Santa Claus (HTC), and merry christmas.
(but have your holidays, life is primary, work is secondary)
P.s. I am starting hitting the refresh button on the download page (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Naso, nice pic of you and your bear, but please post one of your dog! Hehe, I will be posting a pic of my 'best friend' tonight from home.
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once my inner child lit a paper airplane on fire and threw it across the front room right as my inner child's parents got home, simulating a nice kill....the ensuing punsishment was overmodelled (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Torque:
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo....... the only joystick I have is between my legs.
[This message has been edited by Torque
(edited 12-21-2000).]
Look up undermodeled in the dictionary and Torques "joystick" is pictured there.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<GDR>
Mav
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Pyro, I for one am gratefull that you guys are around to provide me with a state of the art mm flight simm. Unfortunately the people most likely to post are those who feel they have a gripe giving one the impression that they are greater in number than they really are. In many cases they're squeaking to let off steam about something else in their lives that isn't going right and not anything with the game at all. Don't internalize that toejam or let it affect your moral. You guys are greatly apreciated by the community and you shouldn't let some whiney little snot nose convince you otherwise. I was one of the guys paying $300 a month for air warrior years back, and what you guys provide goes beyond money, for me anyway....keep up the good work.
CRASH
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quote:
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Originally posted by Torque:
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo....... the only joystick I have is between my legs.
[This message has been edited by Torque
(edited 12-21-2000).]
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Torque confessed to me, that his "joystick" was taken from a remote control, you know, the one you control with the top of your thumb only. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Torque:
Your kidding if a person/group has the self fortitude and ambitious to create the best product in their field you really think a scant few whiners would have any affect on morale. Doubt that severely.[/B]
Do you think I'm just making this stuff up?
Dude, I was a member of the team that created two hard core flight sims, Janes F-15 and Janes F/A-18. Ambitious enough for you?
Over the last five years, I have seen the effects of the nitpickers first hand. It's a gradual thing, more like the classic "death from a thousand cuts" but it doesn't make it any less real.
I've been there in the trenches...the trenches of Game Development. The vast majority of people have no clue at all what that means, or what people in this industry give up to be a part of it. When I read Pyro's comments about working through the holidays, all I could do is sigh and shake my head. Been there, done that.
You can continue to disagree with me of course, however, I'd like to know the basis of your disagreement. Have you worked in this field? Had people throw silly rocks at a product that represents literally years of your life? Have them insist they are right even when you have hard data that proves they are wrong?
Somehow, I doubt it.
-Smut
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I can couch for Smut, if you seen how the 'community' burned him for F15, you'd think twice that it doesn't affect their moral...
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Pyro,
Thanks for taking the time to post up your thoughts. I think it's a good thing to see what the people behind the game are thinking about every once in a while. The con is a great place for this of course, but that's only once a year.
I'm still amazed at what 6 people can put together in just over a year. I hope you guys can spend a few days with your families for the holidays instead of working straight through.
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eagl <squealing Pigs> BYA
Oink Oink To War!!!
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some people are so quick to criticize products in a negative and unproductive way! but these things are someone's creation too and think of where you'd be without it - what do *you* create in a day and who scrutinizes it?
what do you do when your kids bring home a picture: sighhhh no that's all wrong!!! those legs look like sticks you failure!!!! - you should give them good criticsm same goes for the adult world too -
- i guess i am one of towd's "apologists" now too...oh well - step out of the search for perfection and realize what you have, its pretty fun and i am not going to go cry and stomp over a friggin game - i would be crying and stomping a lot with my scores! it is supposed to be fun and it is -
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Originally posted by mrfish:
what do you do when your kids bring home a picture: sighhhh no that's all wrong!!! those legs look like sticks you failure!!!!
thanks for the laugh mrfish. hi im mrbeef
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Greets Pyro.
I have not been able to access the BB for the last 2 or 3 days, But it seems to be ok this morning.
And yes, there has been far to much whining about the same topic by the same people. They seem to grab on to a topic and consistantly whine about it over and over asnd over.. Bit bloody rediculous.. ! post about 1 topic = 1 whine, thats all thats needed.
And pyro, i used to pay about $350.00 to $450.00 a month for my habit and i never whined, just adjusted to the updates as they came along. As a matter of fact, about 90% of the guys here do the same thing, its the other 10% that just get to be to annouying.
Have a good holiday and relax, you have years to develope this sim. Dont burn yourselfs out to soon.
Merry Xmass.. And be safe over the holidays.
Wardog 357th Pony Expess
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mrbeef!!! that's fuggin funny - all we need is mr chicken and we'll have a well balanced vitamin fortified bunch o' losers - see ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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LOL Smut.. F15 is what sent me to Warbirds. You bum! I spent MONTHS in that F15 cockpit learning the workload.. gawd that sim was immersive. Loved flying it; but gawd it was WORK!!!!!
It was F15 that finally convinced me that BVR was not my bag.. and that no kill is like a guns kill. So; off to props and warbirds I went... where brains and ACM skill were enought to offset my old man reflexes in bringing the right MFD up, slewing the radar, changing thru modes; locking up a target, and punching a missile off a rail while still 20 miles outta vis on a target i'd never lay eyes on. Nope, BVR just ain't my thing. Salute.. great work in that sim. Never squeaked, never saw a reason too. And thanks Smut, fer showin me I'm way too old and slow fer modern fighters.... you bum. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Pyro.. you work to hard. You ALL work too hard. And I appreciate every moment of it. Thanks man. Merry Xmas.. go enjoy it. Please!
Hang
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Pyro and HTC crew, don't miss any holidays on account of us . Life is too short, and we dorks aren't going anywhere, we'll still be here after the holidays .
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Smut,
I'm *still* flying F-15, and it's 2 1/2 years old! That sim will never stop feeling like home for me. If you ever want to smile about a product, check out http://exo.com/~gregoryp/f15z/config.cgi (http://exo.com/~gregoryp/f15z/config.cgi)
That ladder has been going from the start, and it was my birth into the online flying genere. Many thanks.
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`Beats spending all day in a cubicle'...Don't I know it! That's what I do all day staring into that CAD screen until I'm cross-eyed!
CC all the whining Pyro....that's why I try to do that only on RW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ...`How'd he?..No way that plane could do that!!..!^@^&**@$%*&&@@!!!!' It's good having Squad mates that laugh at ya every now and then. Plants your feet back on the ground faster then a cannon hog! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Tomorrow...:::Cough::Feels like a fever:::ummm, Boss, don't think I can make it in today:::cough:::cough::
Of course, I think AH 1.05 could clear that illness up immediately! I'll have to stay online tomorrow to look for the 'cure'.
SD
[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 12-21-2000).]
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Pyro, HiTech, Ronni, and the rest of you,
At the risk of being labeled a "brown-nosed SOB", I just want to say one more time:
YOU GUYS ARE NUMBER ONE IN MY BOOK!!!
I love what you guys have built and approve wholeheartedly where you're going with it.
THANKS!!!
Buhdman, out
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If it means anything, when I upgraded my computer I went from a system with over 50 games on it to a system with only 1. Anyone care to guess what game that was? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I wonder if it is possible to get too concerned with how a game is developing that you truely love?
Good post Pyro.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Well said Pyro!
Some times after ready this BB I wonder if you guys just feel like throwing in the towel.(Please Dont)
Pushing 50yrs old here and having a ball playing pilot,tanker and soon to be PT boat captain/gunner (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Damned Stalker
www.damned.org
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"It's pretty cool that we can still do that (fly online)in the privacy of our homes without having to look like fools to the general public."
Amen! I am too old to be hanging out in a video arcade (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Merry Christmas HTC!
Aces High....
Best online sim of the year in MY book (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
gospel
332nd flying mongrels
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Do you think I'm just making this stuff up?
Dude, I was a member of the team that created two hard core flight sims, Janes F-15 and Janes F/A-18. Ambitious enough for you?
Over the last five years, I have seen the effects of the nitpickers first hand. It's a gradual thing, more like the classic "death from a thousand cuts" but it doesn't make it any less real.
You can continue to disagree with me of course, however, I'd like to know the basis of your disagreement. Have you worked in this field? Had people throw silly rocks at a product that represents literally years of your life? Have them insist they are right even when you have hard data that proves they are wrong?
Somehow, I doubt it.
-Smut
Smut if you think what I said only applies to software then you are missing the point of my observation. What I said applies to all fields of any product development. Think of the great artists some who couldn't even give their works of art away <Picasso> when they were alive. Now these works of art can sell for millions of dollars, did they bow to criticisms NO did they really give a rat's bellybutton about what people said or thought about their works of art no. They were true artists in their fields. You may think the HTC is a bunch of software coders but to me the are artists in the purest essence of the word. The others facts are that HTC has about 1000 customers roughly and all I see is about 6 whiners. The whinage only has been going on for the last 2 weeks that is typical when the natives are getting restless. An analogy of that would be put one thousand people in a grandstand have 6-7 people stand up and complain and have the other 994 stand up and say bravo who would have the bigger impact on morale. I understand what you are saying but to me if HTC has come this far they must have the ability to look at the whole picture not just the squeaky wheels. This is just my thoughts on the whole matter.
[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 12-21-2000).]
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......where's my medication.......
QUICK DAMNUT..
AKskurj...
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Thanx for all your hard work HTC team. I agree with everyone. Nitpicking is wrong and is the death of a lot of people.
These guys work hard and deserve a good long brake. <After Version 2.0>
naaaaa. Only Joking (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BT OUT
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Thanx for the post Pyro,
I think in the replies i'm being confused with whining, i NEVER posted anything negative about AH, the FM, or any plane. dare ya's to find one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) In fact it is quite the opposite, I feel i have alot to offer the sim ( read Crash's post) I was just looking for an answer quicker than i got it.
NUTTZ ( who couldn't post on the BB for 2+ days)
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Originally posted by Torque:
Think of the great artists some who couldn't even give their works of art away <Picasso> when they were alive. Now these works of art can sell for millions of dollars, did they bow to criticisms NO did they really give a rat's bellybutton about what people said or thought about their works of art no. [This message has been edited by Torque (edited 12-21-2000).][/B]
Did you even read Pyro's post?
The people at HTC are human. They have feelings. Trust me, they care what people think.
Answer me this...if Pyro didn't care, why would he post about it?
-Smut
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I don't think HTC should release 1.05 until after Christmas. They should close up shop this morning, by noon. Have a great weekend with family/friends, then come back fresh on Tuesday and take a good look at the code for any last bugs. Release 1.05 on Wednesday the 27th, fix the major bugs that pop up on Thursday and Friday, then.....take New Year's weekend off and get really drunk. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
A little off topic grandstanding here, but software developers as a whole work way too much for their own good. Some of these people pretty much live at work, and sooner or later they will suffer the consequences(poor health, depression, no life, etc...). As much as I appreciate all of HTC's efforts, I wish y'all would take regular sanity breaks and get some rest.
HiTech, if you're reading this, please give your team a rest, they not only need it, they deserve it. We'll all still be here when you get back.
<S> and Merry Christmas HiTech, Pyro, Ronni, Natedog, SuperFly, Yankee.
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So ends my ramblins for tonight. Tomorrow is a very big day and we shall see where we stand.
Ok.. fess up. How many of you stayed home "sick" today, based upon this one vague and cryptic statement? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
hehehehehe
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Good luck with 1.05 HTC.
We are all waiting with baited breath.
http://hem.passagen.se/galland/Santa2.html (http://hem.passagen.se/galland/Santa2.html)
Ho Ho Ho.
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Good luck with 1.05 HTC.
Merry Xmas all
http://hem.passagen.se/galland/Santa2.html (http://hem.passagen.se/galland/Santa2.html)
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http://hem.passagen.se/galland/Santa2.html (http://hem.passagen.se/galland/Santa2.html)
Good luck with 1.05 HTC
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I can't say I've ever seen a triple post.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
".... And on the eighth day, God created beer. "
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Originally posted by NATEDOG:
I can't say I've ever seen a triple post.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
was weird..i posted the first one and several miniutes later it still wasnt there...
so I tried again.
and....again..
they didnt show up for me for over an hour.
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Right on Pyro (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S>IC
Happy Holidays!
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Well stated Pyro. Have a good holiday.
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Think what you write, read what you write. Don't look at it as just text on a screen, it's more than that, it's how people see you.
nuff said (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I Hate It When That Happens!
[This message has been edited by goat10 (edited 12-22-2000).]
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Good one, Pyro. And, be nice to your Mom.
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"Working on X-Mass eve" should be banned, errr... make that "Working should be banned!"
I hope you guys have planned a Pizza and Beer at least !
<S!>
Saw
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A different time and different versions but funny how some things don't change ;)
Wonder where Wardog, Vila and Torqque have sauntered off to?
Westy
(ducks behind rotten-tomatoe shield)
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I vanquished Torque from the game..he will not return...
strut strut strut....
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I had just graduated from school of newbie-ism when torque left... he under a different handle?
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torque came back under the handle knuckles i believe
havent seen him in the arena in about a month i think though
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So thats the H2H guy i though was a newB. Damn no wonder.