Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: NHawk on October 18, 2008, 03:21:06 AM
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I was impressed, you guys did it right. 30 to 40 GVs rolling in with supplies and troops in tow. :salute
Unfortunately I was the only GV there to protect the town. And the alarms we were sending out went mostly unheard. But those that did show up in defense of the base did the best they could. And a <S> to them too.
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I was impressed, you guys did it right. 30 to 40 GVs rolling in too.
How is steamrolling a base with 40 guys in AH impressive?
I consider missions of 40 people like herds of wildebeests; in great numbers they can do some damage by the stampede. However, in smaller numbers a single predator can easily bring them down.
Don't give the Wildebeests any more attention, it encourages them.
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How is steamrolling a base with 40 guys in AH impressive?
I consider missions of 40 people like herds of wildebeests; in great numbers they can do some damage by the stampede. However, in smaller numbers a single predator can easily bring them down.
Don't give the Wildebeests any more attention, it encourages them.
It's impressive because...
1) It's just about the only way that base could be taken. Or at least the most logical. We had the entire west coast so there was no other good way in.
2) The organization that took place was well thought out. To get that many people into GVs and have the sense to bring both troops and supplies on the mission took some planning.
Give them credit where credit is due.
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getting 40 guys in 110's to grab a base is easy.
putting together a real GV mission is quite an accomplishment. :confused:
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How is steamrolling a base with 40 guys in AH impressive?
I consider missions of 40 people like herds of wildebeests; in great numbers they can do some damage by the stampede. However, in smaller numbers a single predator can easily bring them down.
Don't give the Wildebeests any more attention, it encourages them.
It's sad that whenever players get organized and accomplish something, somebody allways puts them down for it. Don't worry Delirium my comment is not leveled at you, I see this type of comment everytime players get organized. The Rooks received this style of critcism for their efforts on last Titanic Tuesday. Today it's the Bishops turn to hear it. Every country gets this same comment when they organize. My question is what is so wrong with players organizing to acheive a common goal?
I never ever see my team (Rooks) organize any type of response to these mass raids. Such as a mass fighter sweep? ...or an effort to kill nearby troop barracks? ....or maybe re-take the base that the enemy just took on their last big raid. The Rooks response is to continue to furball loner, and complain about how "lame" it all is. Would'nt an organized fighter sweep be fun to counter these situtaions? In fact in all the years I have played this game I can't say I have ever seen a "Fighter sweep' mission offered up? I do know that certain squads will up as a group, but I can't say I have seen Fighter sweep mission offered up.
Helm ...out
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Thanks N,that mission took some time to allow everything to come together..Had some squaddies do some Preliminary scouting.And I forget who it was,but someone was flying up there and had killed ords..
In the case of that base,GV mission is the only way to take it..
MY :salute goes out to those that join the missions,without them it would not be possible.. :salute
Falcon23
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You Bish wouldnt of gotten it if I had gotten my tigr to town.
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You Bish wouldnt of gotten it if I had gotten my tigr to town.
You say that now. :D
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Off topic, sorry guys.. but, Falcon.. the Stuka in your avitar always reminds me of JJ the Jet Plane. (Yes, I have three young children.) :D
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Off topic, sorry guys.. but, Falcon.. the Stuka in your avitar always reminds me of JJ the Jet Plane. (Yes, I have three young children.) :D
:rofl That hadn't occurred to me, but now that you say it! (I have a young daughter also.)
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That was a fun mission falcon. We had a good mix of tanks and anti aircraft support with supplies in tow. The only wrench in the plan was the backup troops going AWOL.
:salute
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LOL Stodd if.... Bet they would have killed you. Great Teamwork!!!!
thats what the game is about!!!!
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I think it's more the wording. I for one wouldn't be impressed if 40 gv's took a field. Actually I'd be more impressed if they didn't take the field. Imagine, it takes 40 guys now attacking at once to take a field...thats probably close to 1/2 the size of the country population.
You won't see large fighter sweeps, because by and large, mission makers see that as a waste. Why fly a fighter sweep, when you can gather a whole bunch of guys and attack a field where there will be no one there.
Personally I would like to AH have some form of system that would at least allow for some form of gameplay to be played out during the huge missions. If you are rolling 30-40 of anything into a field at once, the team getting pounded on really shouldn't/and doesn't have any chance or hope of defending against that....unless the horde is just terrible at everything. If AH is to be a combat game, and yet the system which governs the ideals of the game allows the opposite quite frequently, I think it may be time to revisit the mechanisms. I don't see any meaningfull combat when the horde starts pounding bases. It is on all teams, where the horde travels to where the other horde is not.
Here we have a combat game. A game developed around the idea the players will be fighting head to head against other players. In the last few times I've read the BB, the boasting has been about not fighting players at all, but swarming bases. There are no good stories, no tests of skill, no test of strategy. Just get a huge force, find empty fields, kill the buildings, drop troops. I guess you get some pvp in there while swarming the 3-4 guys who upped, mabye kill the manned ack, vulch runway and camp vh and you've been in serious combat.
Honestly I think the system discourages people from fighting against the horde. There is little time to gather defense, while the mission planners have plenty of time to assemble a force. I would imagine many people, especially newer subcribers, simply don't want to get shot to heck by bad odds, and join the other attack to the enemy's lightly/undefended field. It just domino's.
So, touting about hording a base and it's impressiveness, and how great the hording team, makes little sense to me. Saying it was fun, is something else. Though I'd find it boring, I guess you could enjoy it to an extent. However, I don't see reason why it would be impressive, skillfull, or surprising that 30-40 guys would be able to take a base.
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I'm not much of a hoarder and don't really like being hoarded either although I'll occasionally fly a goon or run an M3 with the hoard. Just ask my fellow Bish... I'm usually not around.
What I see though is that many players of lesser skill truly enjoy the hoarding and base capture aspect of the game. It gives them both a sense of protection/comfort and accomplishment. I'm not saying all those involved in the hoards are skilless, but many are lesser skilled than average. Keep that in mind at least as you bash the hoards. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Further, I played late into the night last night, mostly fighting Knights in the north in the Orange arena. The Knights put up a pretty good fight for a good long while but were finally overwhelmed when the Bish attacked the East coast, West coast, Center VB's and crossed the channel by CV and attacked the Knight homeland. I don't think that was a planned multi-pronged action; it just turned out that way but the end result was that, by the end of the night as I logged off, the Knights had lost their entire foothold on Bishland except for two bases. I bring it up because, in the sceme of things, that seems pretty consistant with real war; spread the enemy out and make them pay at critical front line bases. While it may seem like attacking non or lightly defended bases to some, which in fact it was, it was due to the Knight being unable, or unwilling to allocate the resources needed to maintain such a large front.
While it's frustrating as a defender, I've always had at least a small amount of admiration for those who can pull this off. I've seen, particularily the Rooks, do it against us on many occasions.
Again, I largely avoid the hoards from both sides of them. Just thought I'd throw out a couple of thoughts/observations.
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IT's not that hard to get a herd of GVs to take a base...especially with 40 guys, its almost as easy as starting a computer...
What GVs were in the mission and how many (approx) of each?
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I think it's more the wording. I for one wouldn't be impressed if 40 gv's took a field. Actually I'd be more impressed if they didn't take the field. Imagine, it takes 40 guys now attacking at once to take a field...thats probably close to 1/2 the size of the country population.
You won't see large fighter sweeps, because by and large, mission makers see that as a waste. Why fly a fighter sweep, when you can gather a whole bunch of guys and attack a field where there will be no one there.
Personally I would like to AH have some form of system that would at least allow for some form of gameplay to be played out during the huge missions. If you are rolling 30-40 of anything into a field at once, the team getting pounded on really shouldn't/and doesn't have any chance or hope of defending against that....unless the horde is just terrible at everything. If AH is to be a combat game, and yet the system which governs the ideals of the game allows the opposite quite frequently, I think it may be time to revisit the mechanisms. I don't see any meaningfull combat when the horde starts pounding bases. It is on all teams, where the horde travels to where the other horde is not.
Here we have a combat game. A game developed around the idea the players will be fighting head to head against other players. In the last few times I've read the BB, the boasting has been about not fighting players at all, but swarming bases. There are no good stories, no tests of skill, no test of strategy. Just get a huge force, find empty fields, kill the buildings, drop troops. I guess you get some pvp in there while swarming the 3-4 guys who upped, mabye kill the manned ack, vulch runway and camp vh and you've been in serious combat.
Honestly I think the system discourages people from fighting against the horde. There is little time to gather defense, while the mission planners have plenty of time to assemble a force. I would imagine many people, especially newer subcribers, simply don't want to get shot to heck by bad odds, and join the other attack to the enemy's lightly/undefended field. It just domino's.
So, touting about hording a base and it's impressiveness, and how great the hording team, makes little sense to me. Saying it was fun, is something else. Though I'd find it boring, I guess you could enjoy it to an extent. However, I don't see reason why it would be impressive, skillfull, or surprising that 30-40 guys would be able to take a base.
The most basic and time proven concept of war or battle is employ your strength where the enemy has none or very little. Tis what war colleges are all about! this concept is the true art of offensive warfare! Having your enemy believe that you are not in a particular place at strength, is the true art of defensive warfare!!
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The most basic and time proven concept of war or battle is employ your strength where the enemy has none or very little. Tis what war colleges are all about! this concept is the true art of offensive warfare! Having your enemy believe that you are not in a particular place at strength, is the true art of defensive warfare!!
Fortunately this is a game and is not intended to simulate war. Maybe we should as false dar bars to simulate false reports, and cardboard sheep to give the illusion of large forces.
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Fortunately this is a game and is not intended to simulate war. Maybe we should as false dar bars to simulate false reports, and cardboard sheep to give the illusion of large forces.
Maybe you should look at the game a little more clearly! As it is these horde sessions or base captures that many many times over instigate some of the best and longest lasting slugfests this game has to offer! There is nothing wrong with taking bases in this fassion. When just a few folks go for a base it only takes 1 spoiler to alter the outcome, Most of the time it takes #s or suprise!! sometimes both. Defending against the horde is fun, Large DAR and you're into the mix very quickly!! :rock
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Large DAR and you're into the mix very quickly!! :rock
You are preaching to the choir Kermit! :aok I run to, not away from the huge dars!
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LOL Stodd if.... Bet they would have killed you. Great Teamwork!!!! thats what the game is about!!!!
>
I bet I would of ran out of ammo on em before they killed me.
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Fortunately this is a game and is not intended to simulate war.
What? :huh
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<S> NHawk, Very kind words. It's like hearding cats to get that many in a mission and to get them focused on the right things.
Keep in mind that we also had to deal with 236, a large airfield. Now that was not smooth and easy.
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I think it's more the wording. I for one wouldn't be impressed if 40 gv's took a field. Actually I'd be more impressed if they didn't take the field. Imagine, it takes 40 guys now attacking at once to take a field...thats probably close to 1/2 the size of the country population.
You won't see large fighter sweeps, because by and large, mission makers see that as a waste. Why fly a fighter sweep, when you can gather a whole bunch of guys and attack a field where there will be no one there.
Personally I would like to AH have some form of system that would at least allow for some form of gameplay to be played out during the huge missions. If you are rolling 30-40 of anything into a field at once, the team getting pounded on really shouldn't/and doesn't have any chance or hope of defending against that....unless the horde is just terrible at everything. If AH is to be a combat game, and yet the system which governs the ideals of the game allows the opposite quite frequently, I think it may be time to revisit the mechanisms. I don't see any meaningfull combat when the horde starts pounding bases. It is on all teams, where the horde travels to where the other horde is not.
Here we have a combat game. A game developed around the idea the players will be fighting head to head against other players. In the last few times I've read the BB, the boasting has been about not fighting players at all, but swarming bases. There are no good stories, no tests of skill, no test of strategy. Just get a huge force, find empty fields, kill the buildings, drop troops. I guess you get some pvp in there while swarming the 3-4 guys who upped, mabye kill the manned ack, vulch runway and camp vh and you've been in serious combat.
Honestly I think the system discourages people from fighting against the horde. There is little time to gather defense, while the mission planners have plenty of time to assemble a force. I would imagine many people, especially newer subcribers, simply don't want to get shot to heck by bad odds, and join the other attack to the enemy's lightly/undefended field. It just domino's.
So, touting about hording a base and it's impressiveness, and how great the hording team, makes little sense to me. Saying it was fun, is something else. Though I'd find it boring, I guess you could enjoy it to an extent. However, I don't see reason why it would be impressive, skillfull, or surprising that 30-40 guys would be able to take a base.
Reading this, my first thought was about the many high alt bomber missions I've posted and others I've participated in- multiple sets of buffs escorted by effective long range aircraft. On the other side of the fence comes a multitude of enemy interceptors, Ta152's, Typh/Temps, 262's and others. That brings out the very best of this game, and people seem to have fun. Call it a horde if you want, but at least it's a damn good fight. :cool:
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Mebbe 30-40 JEEPS, now that would be somethin I'd give an attaboy to!
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I don't think the mission had 40 GVs, 15 at the most.
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Fortunately this is a game and is not intended to simulate war. Maybe we should as false dar bars to simulate false reports, and cardboard sheep to give the illusion of large forces.
didnt you just say in your previous post something to the extent of "this is a combat sim. I dont understand why people horde undefended bases" now your saying this isnt to simulate combat. if you say at one point "this is a Combat Sim" then later say "This isnt a Combat Simulator" tell me that logic... i find none whatsoever, im not bashing you, im just stating that it almost sounded like when President Bush invaded some nuetral Countries in the middle east he said "its not a Presidential power, its an Exectutive Power" head of exectutive branch is president, if he can execute the Executive power as head of the executive branch then its a presidential power, no?
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didnt you just say in your previous post something to the extent of "this is a combat sim. I dont understand why people horde undefended bases" now your saying this isnt to simulate combat. if you say at one point "this is a Combat Sim" then later say "This isnt a Combat Simulator" tell me that logic... i find none whatsoever, im not bashing you, im just stating that it almost sounded like when President Bush invaded some nuetral Countries in the middle east he said "its not a Presidential power, its an Exectutive Power" head of exectutive branch is president, if he can execute the Executive power as head of the executive branch then its a presidential power, no?
I said the game isn't a war simulator, but a combat sim. In a war there is combat, but the 2 are not the same thing. Combat is generally viewed as, people fighting each other in a more personal manner. If I typed anywhere that it was not a combat simulator in was in error, but I don't see anywhere where I typed that. When a horde shows up to a field with no defense (for whatever the reason) there is very little combat. Unless you view shooting stationary targets combat....which kind of defies the definition of combat. War is a broad term, encompassing many things. Combat, is a part of war.
If this was a pure war sim, it is really not a very good one. Little to no meaningfull strat targets. No meaningful supply lines. No real ground troops. Weak navy presence. No propaganda to convert the sheep. No sense of attrition. There are no bases that you feel the need you must have. Often attacks just move on to another base if unable to take the one you're at.
Sometimes the horde is unavoidable, and sometimes is the other teams fault for not defending. But when I look at a map and see one big red dar over one field, and a huge green bar over another...I wonder why that is. It seems neither team really cares if they lose a base, only that they can easily take another base. I don't understand why people would rather take a base were there is little fighting and be proud of that. Wouldn't you have more pride if you actually had to overcome another fighting force? Most bases that I see that don't get captured, is not because of man power. It's disorganized. town left up, vh left up, no goon on the way...things like that, prolong the capture, fuel runs out, and finally all those gv's land and up planes.
Fighting the horde can be fun. It can also be boring when your choices are to evade 5 guys trying to pick you, and the same is happening on your side at a different field. I don't always think the horde is intentional, but I think one area of this game that could be improved would be in some way attempting to merge these large forces so that they meet more frequently.
And I don't see anything wrong with bomber missions, and alot of fun can be had especially when escorts get involved. In fact I wish the MA had more encounters like this. It's probably more fun for everyone involved, but the key is having people to really fight against.
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getting 40 guys in 110's to grab a base is easy.
putting together a real GV mission is quite an accomplishment. :confused:
Specially for the Bish, wish i could've been there! :lol
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I don't think the mission had 40 GVs, 15 at the most.
If you think that, then you weren't there. I saw what initially came over the hill. Once I died, I went up in a plane and the view was something to behold. There were at least 15 in the town alone with another 10 or 12 guarding the base side of the town to prevent our GVs from getting there. Then there were at least another 15 to 20 M3's, Osties and Whirbles inbound to the town.
If there were only 15 trust me, I could have slowed them down enough for Stodd to get there. But I died after 9 kills and there were plenty more shooting at me. Unfortunately I can only shoot one shell in one direction at a time. And I was getting hit by multiple shells from multiple directions. :)
This wasn't meant to be a hording discussion. I don't consider it hording when that is the only logical way they could get the base. To try it by air would give far to much early warning for it to be successful. This was meant as a compliment to the organizational skills needed to take that base.
Again...Well Done :salute
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If you think that, then you weren't there. I saw what initially came over the hill. Once I died, I went up in a plane and the view was something to behold. There were at least 15 in the town alone with another 10 or 12 guarding the base side of the town to prevent our GVs from getting there. Then there were at least another 15 to 20 M3's, Osties and Whirbles inbound to the town.
If there were only 15 trust me, I could have slowed them down enough for Stodd to get there. But I died after 9 kills and there were plenty more shooting at me. Unfortunately I can only shoot one shell in one direction at a time. And I was getting hit by multiple shells from multiple directions. :)
This wasn't meant to be a hording discussion. I don't consider it hording when that is the only logical way they could get the base. To try it by air would give far to much early warning for it to be successful. This was meant as a compliment to the organizational skills needed to take that base.
Again...Well Done :salute
I got there late, It was a Falcon mission I believe. But when I got there there were like 10 of us on our way to 215 and already a full herd of us there. I'm not sure how many gv's were at the base but it was plenty.
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I got there late, It was a Falcon mission I believe. But when I got there there were like 10 of us on our way to 215 and already a full herd of us there. I'm not sure how many gv's were at the base but it was plenty.
It was a Falcon missions. Also, it wasn't an undefended base. I was in an Ostwind, and managed to down two IL2s and I think an LA-7. Considering the number of wirbels and ostis that we had on the ground, and my poor abilities in GVs, there must have been quite a few planes buzzing around over head.
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If you think that, then you weren't there. I saw what initially came over the hill. Once I died, I went up in a plane and the view was something to behold. There were at least 15 in the town alone with another 10 or 12 guarding the base side of the town to prevent our GVs from getting there. Then there were at least another 15 to 20 M3's, Osties and Whirbles inbound to the town.
If there were only 15 trust me, I could have slowed them down enough for Stodd to get there. But I died after 9 kills and there were plenty more shooting at me. Unfortunately I can only shoot one shell in one direction at a time. And I was getting hit by multiple shells from multiple directions. :)
This wasn't meant to be a hording discussion. I don't consider it hording when that is the only logical way they could get the base. To try it by air would give far to much early warning for it to be successful. This was meant as a compliment to the organizational skills needed to take that base.
Again...Well Done :salute
I was there. I was in an ostie in town. When the mission launched there was about 3 osties, 4 or 5 wirbles, 3 panzers, 2 M3's with troops, an M3 with supplies, and a T34 or two. There might have been a Sherman but I never saw one. The first set of troops failed to take the base and the backup set was AWOL. Several people then ditched to get more troops. If it wasn't for the mad rush of M3's the 3 IL2s flying around would have saved the base by picking of any single M3 that may have upped.