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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: pxdig on October 25, 2008, 01:25:45 PM

Title: t-birds vs angels
Post by: pxdig on October 25, 2008, 01:25:45 PM
as many of you have, I have attended a bunch of different air shows.  Of these the biggest attraction is always on of the two demonstration teams, the USAF Thunderbirds or the US Navy Blue Angels.  Although the blue angels have a much more name recognition, I have always found the Thunderbirds to be a better show. The F16 is a smaller more manuverable airplane than the twin engine f18 and the pilots seem to be crisper and more exact in the manuvering. 

When it comes to the best military air demo team, who do you vote for:  The Thunderbirds or the Blue Angels?
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(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p185/pxdig/tbirds.jpg)


or


(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p185/pxdig/blueangels.jpg)
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: glock89 on October 25, 2008, 01:29:51 PM
I never seen the Thunderbirds  live but i have seen Blue Angles i go with both.  :salute :aok
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: stroker71 on October 25, 2008, 01:33:42 PM
Takes ball of steel to be in either one.  I did see the ThunderBirds a few years back in Dayton...so I'll go with them.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: 1pLUs44 on October 25, 2008, 01:35:19 PM
I've seen em both... Thunderbirds have done stuff I've never seen the Angels do. I doubt the Blue Angels could.

So I have to go w/ T-Birds.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: sluggish on October 25, 2008, 01:37:48 PM
F16 is a much sweeter bird.

GO TBIRDS!!
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Curlew on October 25, 2008, 02:14:00 PM
I really hate to say this, as a true american patriot, but ive seen the tbirds, the BA, the snowbird (can), and the red arrows (eng), and sadly i think the red arrows put on a better show than everyone, its much more exciting

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/75330/red_arrows/
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 25, 2008, 02:44:52 PM
both areincredibly talented groups of pilots.

 the Angels tend to fly a bit of a "smoother", due i think mostly to the fact that they fly so tight. i think i would liken it to a ballet.
 the Tbirds fly a more "rock n roll" type of show. they don't fly as tight as the angels, and i think this allows them to break it up more.

 i've seen both perform at Mcguire AFB.
 i like the Tbirds show better, but i am glad to be able to see either of them fly.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 25, 2008, 02:46:26 PM
I really hate to say this, as a true american patriot, but ive seen the tbirds, the BA, the snowbird (can), and the red arrows (eng), and sadly i think the red arrows put on a better show than everyone, its much more exciting

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/75330/red_arrows/

they can, because, unlike the Angels, or the Tbirds, the Red Arrows fly trainers. we fly functional fighters. :D :aok

can the arrows do this?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=f0RNZnTmKzg&feature=related

or this?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D31WQEact94

here's some Tbirds
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MTrd3XU-s9w
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Spikes on October 25, 2008, 02:54:24 PM
I've never seen the Blues, but I've seen the T-birds and they know their stuff.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Buzzard7 on October 25, 2008, 02:55:51 PM
Red Arrows are very good. They are flying trainers as was said. No auto trim no fancy FCS. Have to respect that. As far as North American teams go I would list them as:
1:T-birds
2:Blue Angels
3:Snowbirds
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 25, 2008, 03:04:16 PM
Red Arrows are very good. They are flying trainers as was said. No auto trim no fancy FCS. Have to respect that. As far as North American teams go I would list them as:
1:T-birds
2:Blue Angels
3:Snowbirds


hehe.....snowbirds fly trianers too :D
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Shifty on October 25, 2008, 03:22:11 PM
Seen both numerous times, as well as the Red Arrows in thier hawks back in the 80s.
My first air show I saw the Blues in F4 Phantoms that was a hell of a show.
I've seen the Blues in the F-18 since, the T-Birds in T-38s and F-16s.

I like the T-birds best but by a very narrow margin, but then I'm a USAF vet. I do love the Blues C-130 demonstration, that's just kick a**. :aok
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Saxman on October 25, 2008, 03:39:30 PM
They're both impressive, but I've read that the T-Birds safety record is somewhat spottier, tho.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Race on October 25, 2008, 04:19:58 PM
In the virtual world these guys get my vote.............

http://www.virtualblueangels.net/

Type Virtual Blue Angels in Youtube for a very nice video.

Race
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: rstel01 on October 25, 2008, 04:39:51 PM
Fly Navy!

Blues all the way!

Blue Angles dont fly with G suits, do the T-Birds? Either Way, both are great.

I was lucky enough as a kid to see both when they flew the F-4, then the T-Birds moved to the T-38 and the Blues went to the A-4 (which was kick ass)!   
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 25, 2008, 04:57:45 PM
Fly Navy!

Blues all the way!

Blue Angles dont fly with G suits, do the T-Birds? Either Way, both are great.

I was lucky enough as a kid to see both when they flew the F-4, then the T-Birds moved to the T-38 and the Blues went to the A-4 (which was kick ass)!   


YEA..THE TBIRDS DO WEAR GSUITS.

do you know why the angels don't? :D
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: bcadoo on October 25, 2008, 05:38:53 PM
YEA..THE TBIRDS DO WEAR GSUITS.

do you know why the angels don't? :D

They don't wear G-Suits because of the danger of inflation causing inadvertent stick motion while in close formation.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 25, 2008, 06:41:37 PM
They don't wear G-Suits because of the danger of inflation causing inadvertent stick motion while in close formation.

 :roflyaknow? i shoulda KNOWN guys in here would know that!

you'd be surprised at how many people that are at the airshows that don't. when they find out the pilots are doing those maneuvers without them i always see the  :O and they say how they think it is impossible.

  :aok
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Buzzard7 on October 25, 2008, 07:38:40 PM
Falcon pilots can where them because of the stick being on the right side console. We just lost a BA pilot due to possible g-loc at low alititude in a turn.

Yes the Canucks fly a trainer but they don't look as good as the Arrows IMHO.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: ASTAC on October 25, 2008, 09:40:59 PM
Blue Angels...Better plane...better paint scheme..and an overall better show IMO.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Sol75 on October 26, 2008, 12:07:40 AM
While I LOVE both the angels and the birds... I prefer the angels.

However, have any of you seen the Brazllian team fly? Saw them a few years ago @ Dayton... Incredible show! they fly a Tucano? (same plane as AF new trainer) a turboprop plane.. they do many of the same maneuvers as the jet guys, but the whole show is much much closer in... awesome to see.

Sol
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Furball on October 26, 2008, 03:36:29 AM
The Red Arrows are amazing.

I was at a display where due to the weather, had it been a normal air show they would have had to cancel because the cloud ceiling was too low.  They pulled off the airshow routine flawlessly right on the deck, as soon as any of them got any alt they went into cloud and vanished.  Unbelieveable display of skill.

Never seen the American teams so have no idea about them.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Golfer on October 26, 2008, 10:56:30 AM
I've seen the Escadrille de Fumaca (Portugese for "Smoke Squadron") in the US and in Brazil.  They do an exceptional performance and their home crowd was something else.  I haven't seen a US team receiving the same reception anywhere in the USA that they received there.

Between the US Military jet teams however:

Blue Angels every day of the week and twice on Sunday!
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Maverick on October 26, 2008, 12:09:38 PM
I like them both. Each has a couple maneuvers the other doesn't do but I rate them both as top of the heap on performance. I like that at many places like Davis-Monthan AFB they can alternate between them both on succeeding years. That way the home town crowd gets to see both teams perform.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: 442w30 on October 26, 2008, 12:31:48 PM
I've got to agree with some others.  RAF Red Arrows.  Not a great bird, they are not as precise as some of the others, but they just get the job done. 
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 26, 2008, 02:07:09 PM
I like them both. Each has a couple maneuvers the other doesn't do but I rate them both as top of the heap on performance. I like that at many places like Davis-Monthan AFB they can alternate between them both on succeeding years. That way the home town crowd gets to see both teams perform.

THAT's what they do at McGuire AFB.

2 years ago, they both flew the same show at a freebie at atlantic city, over the beach. i friggin couldn't get off work to see it  :cry
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Grayeagle on October 26, 2008, 06:24:41 PM
Seen 'em both.

That sneakin F-4 comin low over the crowd from behind in full AB as he pulls up after scarin the CRAP outta everyone  :O was the best move I had ever seen.. Keesler AFB, 1973.

I love any chance I get to see any of them in action.

I saw the first workout at Nellis right after they switched to the '16 .. Holy Smokes could that plane/pilot do some stuff!!
I was 4th TFW then, we were TDY there for Red Flag ..the whole F-4 mission launch stopped while everyone just drooled watchin the solo guy in the F-16 with T-bird colors do stuff that the ol' F-4 just could not dream of doing :)

Then our F-4 jocks went out and smoked the Aggressors in their first op as escorts to the Brit buffs that day.
4th TFW ..they were some of the best in the bidness.

For out an out gut-rumbling LOUD aerobatics, tuff to beat the F-4 .. but .. the 'new' planes sure do some amazing stuff and make it look easy doin it.

Altho the Angels are great .. the T-birds have a cooler paint scheme IMHO.
Always have had IMHO.

-GE aka Frank
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CyranoAH on October 27, 2008, 07:34:52 AM
For me:

Most espectacular: Frecce Tricolori
Most elegant: tie between Patrouille de France and Red Arrows
Best overall show: Patrulla Įguila, excellent timing
Special mention: Russian Knights /Swifts, as they use the largest airplanes in formation aerobatics (Su27 - Mig29)

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=mKIqlqSEdDQ&feature=related

Daniel
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: iTunes on October 27, 2008, 09:32:02 AM
I'd vote for the Red Arrows
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Baitman on October 27, 2008, 10:08:21 AM
Have to be the Snowbirds :aok Largest formation flying group. I do like the smooth flying rather than the rock your mind BA demonstration team.

Tri-color very good too. 

Yes they fly trainers but Canada has less than 100 CF-18's so trainers it has to be.

My Avatar comes from the wing of the CT-114 Tutor jet trainer 431 squadron  SNOWBIRDS
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Halo on October 27, 2008, 08:17:25 PM
Thunderbirds    :salute
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: camnite on October 28, 2008, 04:52:54 AM
never seen the t-birds but watch the BAs 1 or 2 times a year. BAs do have a better paint scheme though, cleaner and neater.
not sure about t-birds but BAs use worn out hornets the fleet dont want anymore. anyway cant beat the BAs herc when its time comes up
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: eagl on October 29, 2008, 09:12:35 PM
I like the Blue Angels show better.  The plane is I think better suited for a spectacular show.  Both teams put on great shows but I think the fighter pilot in me appreciates the maneuverability of the F-18, giving the Blue Angels the edge in my opinion.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: 1pLUs44 on October 30, 2008, 01:53:44 AM
YEA..THE TBIRDS DO WEAR GSUITS.

do you know why the angels don't? :D

Maybe because the plane they fly is in all aspects more maneuverable than the F-18?
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: SD67 on October 30, 2008, 02:59:20 AM
Maybe because the plane they fly is in all aspects more maneuverable than the F-18?
Then how come a lone Aussie pilot in an F18 waxed two American F16's during exercises in 1989?
It could have happened again but this is the only incident I personally know about.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 30, 2008, 07:53:57 AM
Then how come a lone Aussie pilot in an F18 waxed two American F16's during exercises in 1989?
It could have happened again but this is the only incident I personally know about.

because he HO'd em!!! :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: badhorse on October 30, 2008, 05:24:41 PM
I've seen them both many times and they are both very good. The most impressive show I saw was when I was still in the service back in the late 1960's early 1970s.  The Thunderbirds were flying the F4 Phantom.  I tell you, when they threw those suckers into afterburner at low level it made your bones rattle.  Wonderful show.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Angus on October 30, 2008, 05:43:06 PM
Red arrows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAc8shOmnBw&feature=related
Black arrows...older!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD6izBE3f2M
And in big gaggles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50gaJE5BGq0&feature=related
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: TwentyFo on October 30, 2008, 05:51:39 PM
Blue Angels put on a better show. I've had the opportunity to see the Thunderbirds this year, and the blue angels the year before. The blue angels seem to fly a lot tighter formations. They also seem to fly a lot closer to the ground, which is amazing to see.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Masherbrum on October 30, 2008, 06:39:46 PM
Blue Angles dont fly with G suits, do the T-Birds? Either Way, both are great.

No, but Adonai does.   
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: cpxxx on October 30, 2008, 07:16:43 PM
Never saw the Blue Angels. But the T-birds came to my city last year and finally got to put the Irish tricolour on the F16s. They opened their European tour at my local airshow. They were brilliant, impressive. But I have to say the Silver Swallows were better.  :salute

Sorry :mad: What do mean you never heard of the Silver Swallows?

Well fair enough. They were the aerobatic team of the Irish Air Corps. Four Fouga Magisters flying formations as tight as anything you would see with the Blue Angels. All the more impressive is that there were no ejection seats in the Magister. There is a youtube video of them and the display was impressive considering our Air Corps had only six Fougas. Sadly they are now disbanded as the aircraft has retired. The Air Corps now operate PC9s. Which is crazy. Have you ever heard of airforce going back to propellor driven aircraft from jets. :mad:

But patriotism aside, having seen the T-birds, the Frecce Tricolori, Patroulle de France and the Red Arrows I have to say it's got to be the Silver Swallows :lol Well Ok the Red Arrows. I said the Red Arrows (Damm those Brits)

But I would love to see the Blue Angels. I might change my mind then
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Shifty on October 31, 2008, 06:37:34 AM
Hmm, just heard on the radio something about the Blues being grounded.

 It seems one of the pilots was doing some unauthorized manuvers with a female member of the team.
I didn't hear if she was part of the maintenance, or operations  side of the Blue Angels.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: DiabloTX on October 31, 2008, 06:52:12 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/6087201.html
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Shifty on October 31, 2008, 07:37:29 AM
Thanks for the link D I couldn't find one.  :aok

Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: DiabloTX on October 31, 2008, 07:39:32 AM
Ironically enough my dad sent it to me about 10 mins before I read your post.  I thought, "Damn, news like this travels fast!"
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: hlbly on October 31, 2008, 07:54:39 AM
As a kid I saw the Blue Impulse of the JSDAF . They put on a hell of a show. Lord how I love the F-86F .
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Sandman on October 31, 2008, 11:55:28 AM
I've seen Thunderbirds in the F-4 and F-16. I've seen Blue Angels in A-4 and F-18.

Snowbirds are better.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Speed55 on October 31, 2008, 01:03:14 PM
I've seen both when they were slightly off, and both when they were near perfect, and i have to say that the angels, aside from putting on an overall more exciting show, just look cooler.  Not taking anything away from the t-birds because they were fantastic as well.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Cobra516 on October 31, 2008, 03:56:37 PM
I think the Blues put on a better show.  The Thunderbirds routine is very "sterile" - I don't know how to describe it.  It just seems pretty underwhelming.   

The Blues fly the inverted / upright gear down diamond formation pass - the gear down loop - the solo flys the dirty roll on takeoff, the other solo rotates, wheels up and up to 300 kts and then pulls it hard up into the verticle throwing up all the dust/dirt behind him.   They just seem to "rack it around" a lot more compared to what I've seen the Thunderbirds do. 

They also look to fly a tighter/slightly deeper formation.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: AKIron on October 31, 2008, 04:11:59 PM
I think the Blues put on a better show.  The Thunderbirds routine is very "sterile" - I don't know how to describe it.  It just seems pretty underwhelming.   

The Blues fly the inverted / upright gear down diamond formation pass - the gear down loop - the solo flys the dirty roll on takeoff, the other solo rotates, wheels up and up to 300 kts and then pulls it hard up into the verticle throwing up all the dust/dirt behind him.   They just seem to "rack it around" a lot more compared to what I've seen the Thunderbirds do. 

They also look to fly a tighter/slightly deeper formation.

I've watched the Thunderbirds perform many times. They were a lot more exciting to watch before 4 of 'em smacked the ground in '82.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 31, 2008, 04:36:18 PM
I think the Blues put on a better show.  The Thunderbirds routine is very "sterile" - I don't know how to describe it.  It just seems pretty underwhelming.   

The Blues fly the inverted / upright gear down diamond formation pass - the gear down loop - the solo flys the dirty roll on takeoff, the other solo rotates, wheels up and up to 300 kts and then pulls it hard up into the verticle throwing up all the dust/dirt behind him.   They just seem to "rack it around" a lot more compared to what I've seen the Thunderbirds do. 

They also look to fly a tighter/slightly deeper formation.

You've never seen the tbirds gear down pass?
4 of em fly the tbird diamond, while
35 comes haulin arse right between em. it's at 15:44 in this video.
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/2008-mcguire-afb-open-house-usaf-thunderbirds-2/4092811385

i actually found this to be more impressive though, than any of the fighters. side note.......the pilot is a customer of my shop  :D
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=B06M4w7f1W8
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Buzzard7 on October 31, 2008, 10:06:25 PM
Seen the Angels in F-4 A-4 and F/A-18
The T-birds in F-100 F-4 T-38 F-16
That should pretty well date me.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Cobra516 on October 31, 2008, 11:52:04 PM
You've never seen the tbirds gear down pass?
Yeah, but the Blues have the gear down while inverted.  The T-Birds don't snatch it around nearly as much.  The Blues solos really throw that AOA around.
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: CAP1 on October 31, 2008, 11:58:32 PM
Yeah, but the Blues have the gear down while inverted.  The T-Birds don't snatch it around nearly as much.  The Blues solos really throw that AOA around.

now see though....i;ve seen em both at mcguire, and think they do.

in all honesty though, i like the solo f15e, and the solo f16 better. they're not hindered by wingmen....and THEY throw those airplanes around the sky. :D
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Noir on November 01, 2008, 12:14:22 AM
The Patrouille de France pwn them both ^^
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: DmonSlyr on November 01, 2008, 10:12:33 AM
i just saw the T-birds last weekend and i have to say the smoothness and pricision they flew was unreal. the red arrows in the video looked cool but there moves werent nearly as skillfull as the t-birds show. my favorite move from the t-birds 4 of them do a barrel roll in sinc at the same time like its one airplane. that takes some skill and a touch! the blue angles are amazing too. but i think the t-birds have better control of the plane.

who are the patrouille de france?
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: hlbly on November 05, 2008, 03:21:52 AM
Best maneuver I ever saw was the star burst with the single rolling as he screamed straight up the middle . Sadly discontinued after crash<es> . T-Birds btw .
Title: Re: t-birds vs angels
Post by: Grayeagle on November 05, 2008, 01:41:23 PM
Seen a lot of solo's over the years.

Best (for me) ..Bob Hoover, 1968, Deer Valley Airport.. in his Mustang.

I mean.. the cactus in the background stood higher than the Mustang on his inverted pass .. an stuff.

-GE