Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: 1pLUs44 on October 26, 2008, 08:28:17 PM
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Well, what would be the best fights you'd like to see, 1 v 1, to see who could win?
Here's my 2:
Dick Bong v. Pappy Boington (sp?)
Alexander 'Sasha' Pokryshkin vs. Winner of First fight.
Top 2 German Aces Fight eachother (I'm not sure of the names... dont wanna mess it up too bad)
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All I can comment on would be the last fight... Co-E, Gerhard Barkhorn (301 kills) would probably be able to beat Erich Hartmann (352), as Hartmann describes him as what we would call a furballer, and Hartmann was a much... ermmm... 'smarter' flyer, so I don't know that he would be able to keep with Barkhorn in a 1v1 fight to the death. Same goes for Pokryshkin as for Hartmann.
Doesn't matter though, as Marseille would beat them all :aok
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Bong vs Pappy - Bong
Pokryshkin vs Bong - Pokryshkin
Hartmann vs Galland - Galland, but just barely.
Hartmann vs Pokryshkin - would be so close, I have no clue.
Papppy vs Galland - Galland
Galland vs Bong - Bong
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Again, I don't think Pokryshkin or Hartmann would be able to keep up in a 1v1- they were smart, efficient fliers, but not necessarily good aerobatic fliers.
And Galland only had 275 kills putting him behind Barkhorn. Although, if you DID put Galland, who served through the whole war and fought against every airforce, against Hartmann, who arrived in Russia in late '42 and fought almost only Russians, I think Galland would probably beat Hartmann handily.
(I kind of lol'd to my self as I was writing 'only had 275' :lol )
Pokryshkin and Hartmann indeed would be a close fight.
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Well, Pokryshkin also made his own tactics, and there is the famous quote from the Kuban Air Battles:
'Achtung! Achtung! Pokryshkin is in the air!' or something like that since Pokryshkin became very famous for that. I would put up Kozhedub, but he didn't really come into the war until 1943, as he started with a 'state of the art' Russian plane, the La-5, then moved to the La7. Pokryshkin flew only P-39s except for the Mig 3 at the beginning of the war. :salute
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Hartmann even had his own nickname coined by the Russians; The Black Devil of the South (from the Black Tulip pattern)
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The other thing I find kind of hard to understand is that all of his recorded fighter kills except one are 109s... seems like he was looking for a fight. I've read logs from other russian pilots, and they mostly had 190s under their belt. (I think its because the 109 is a lot more maneuverable)
I think Kozhedub scored a little bit of half and half of each when it came to fighters.
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Unanswerable. Considering that 80% of kills were of the surprise-bounce kind, very difficult to say who who was not the better "dueling" pilot, unless the two guys actually hassled each other.
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Unanswerable. Considering that 80% of kills were of the surprise-bounce kind, very difficult to say who who was not the better "dueling" pilot, unless the two guys actually hassled each other.
Actually the way Motherland is going about it makes perfect sense. And I agree. Hartmann was a brilliant pilot, but not necessarily a great pilot. His success was due to his knowledge of when to fight, when to run, when to shoot, when to wait. In a 1v1 those aren't as important as your ability to perform maneuvers.
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Bong vs Pappy - Bong
Pokryshkin vs Bong - Pokryshkin
Hartmann vs Galland - Galland, but just barely.
Hartmann vs Pokryshkin - would be so close, I have no clue.
Papppy vs Galland - Galland
Galland vs Bong - Bong
In a no-bounce/no-surprise encounter (pure dogfight), Marseille would probably beat all these guys. Master of aerial CQB.
my $.02 :salute
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Marseille would pwn everyone. :)
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Otto 'Bruno' Kittel vrs. anyone :aok
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All I can comment on would be the last fight... Co-E, Gerhard Barkhorn (301 kills) would probably be able to beat Erich Hartmann (352), as Hartmann describes him as what we would call a furballer, and Hartmann was a much... ermmm... 'smarter' flyer, so I don't know that he would be able to keep with Barkhorn in a 1v1 fight to the death. Same goes for Pokryshkin as for Hartmann.
Doesn't matter though, as Marseille would beat them all :aok
actually hartmann would win that match. he'd simply e-fight him. stay above, and faster. wear him down. sooner or later when he comes in making a pass, barkhorn will be unable to evade.
just my 2 cents.
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And Galland only had 275 kills putting him behind Barkhorn. Although, if you DID put Galland, who served through the whole war and fought against every airforce
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAARGH!
Galland had 104 victories! :o Number 3 in the top aces list is Guenther Rall, with 275 kills. Galland was made Inspector General of the fighters and retired from combat, he began flying again only in the end of the war, with the Me 262. And he NEVER fought on the eastern front!
I agree with Cthulhu and Anaxagoras, I'd like to see Marseille vs any of the above, I think he would win.
EDIT: Galland was made General soon after Moelders death and remained out of combat from November 1941 to March 1945.
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Well, if we are judging strictly by ability to perform aerobatics, I would have to say Bob Hoover uber alles!
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Well, if we are judging strictly by ability to perform aerobatics, I would have to say Bob Hoover uber alles!
:aok
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Heinz Baer or Robin Olds would pwn em all. :D
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
Galland had 104 victories! :o Number 3 in the top aces list is Guenther Rall, with 275 kills. Galland was made Inspector General of the fighters and retired from combat, he began flying again only in the end of the war, with the Me 262. And he NEVER fought on the eastern front!
<Slaps himself. I don't know how I switched 'Rall' and 'Galland' in my mind.
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Bong would HO on first merge.....fight over. :noid
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Werner Voss :aok
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Adolphus "Sailor" Malan vs anyone.
He took Werner Mölders on a quick spanking lesson where Mölders actually did everything right by the book (getting on Malan's tail after loosing a squadmate to him).
In that case, the element of surprize "kill" was gone, so it was a pure dogfight.
Anyway, Marseilles was good, but it was also tactics. He did the shotings in some peace because of good cover, but he was good allright.
Rall will say that Marseilles was the best, however some LW guys "whispered" to me that Rall was the better shot, since he was renowned for making kills under high-G, - quite the opposite of Marseilles who would make his kills near to a slow speed stall.
And nobody mentioned "Screwball" Beurling......
There were so many good, and it depends on the rides as well. The question here is a tad open..
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Bong would HO on first merge.....fight over. :noid
LOL.... :furious
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<Slaps himself. I don't know how I switched 'Rall' and 'Galland' in my mind.
That's what made me screaming! You're not an illiterate.
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<Slaps himself. I don't know how I switched 'Rall' and 'Galland' in my mind.
BTW Galland once jostled with Robert Stanford-Tuck. They shot down each other's wingmen, and Galland then "Exited" the fight.
Tuck was one heck of a stick. Didn't he bag 5 in a day once?
(With .303's)
Then there is one dogfighter, "Pat" Pattle, who had 15 kills in a Bipe....
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Albert Ball?
For most conspicuous and consistent bravery from the 25th of April to the 6th of May, 1917, during which period Capt. Ball took part in twenty-six combats in the air and destroyed eleven hostile aeroplanes, drove down two out of control, and forced several others to land. In these combats Capt. Ball, flying alone, on one occasion fought six hostile machines, twice he fought five and once four. When leading two other British aeroplanes he attacked an enemy formation of eight. On each of these occasions he brought down at least one enemy. Several times his aeroplane was badly damaged, once so seriously that but for the most delicate handling his machine would have collapsed, as nearly all the control wires had been shot away. On returning with a damaged machine he had always to be restrained from immediately going out on another. In all, Capt. Ball has destroyed forty-three German aeroplanes and one balloon, and has always displayed most exceptional courage, determination and skill
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Albert Ball?
A remarkable fighter. But I think this thread's limited to WWII, Furbie. ;)
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furby has had a hard on for ball for a few years now im getting worried about him :uhoh
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A remarkable fighter. But I think this thread's limited to WWII, Furbie. ;)
Doesn't say that anywhere... I stand by my suggestions of Voss or Ball. :P
furby has had a hard on for ball for a few years now im getting worried about him :uhoh
You are just jealous because i don't have a hard on for clowns.
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:furious
i'm clean man, honest, i havnt dressed up in over 5 years, dont push me back down that slope.
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:furious
i'm clean man, honest, i havnt dressed up in over 5 years, dont push me back down that slope.
:rofl
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Albert Ball?
And he was only twenty when he died :salute
Born the same year as my grandmother :confused: and she died in 1990, aged 94. Lotta years missed.
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double post
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McCampbell > all these guys.
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I've heard that Nishizawa was incredible, but not a very personable or social guy on the ground.