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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nwbie on October 28, 2008, 09:30:14 AM

Title: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Nwbie on October 28, 2008, 09:30:14 AM
http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=0b0b06d0-c97e-44d3-9395-e0cb406d0fed

8 year old kills self with uzi at a gun show with genius instructor and father
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Mickey1992 on October 28, 2008, 09:39:23 AM
Very sad.  I would not let an 8 year-old handle a push lawnmower, let alone a fully automatic weapon.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: sluggish on October 28, 2008, 09:58:38 AM
Having a young son myself, I cannot help but be overwhelmed by stories like this.  Any time a young innocent life like this is snuffed out it is a travesty.  Having fired automatic weapons myself many times I can picture in my mind exactly what happened and it is horrifying but predictable.  Such a young child should NEVER be allowed to fire such a weapon.  The boy's father will have to live with this horribly stupid and tragic mistake for the rest of his life.  I personally wouldn't be able to carry on.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Xasthur on October 28, 2008, 10:31:00 AM
Senseless waste.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: MotleyCH on October 28, 2008, 10:32:29 AM

He was way to young to be handling a gun of this type. I wouldn't allow letting my kids handle a gun on a range with more than one round loaded.

His father will have to live with the loss of his son, I can't even imagine doing so.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 10:46:05 AM
All a matter of perspective, I think.

Poll some Israeli's, find out how early they begin weapons training.  ( I honestly don't know, but I think it's pretty young)

So, I think the age is a non-factor.  Experience, and knowledge (or the lack thereof) is the important thing here.   Equally as important would be the lack of CLOSE supervision for the kids first time at it.  I.E. Dad being at his side so the kid got the feel for it, first.  Instead, this love muffin was grabbing for the camera.  Great parenting practices, Chuck.

It is directly, the father's and instructor's fault.  Father, knowing the child had never fired an Uzi before, and the instruc-tard for not asking or assisting the kid, himself.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Xasthur on October 28, 2008, 10:46:33 AM
No eight year old kid of mine will ever fire a lethal weapon.

This article is a screaming example of stupidity at its worst.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2008, 10:52:02 AM
Father should get an Honorable Mention Darwin Award.  If I were the dad I would shoot myself to assure first prize.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Obie303 on October 28, 2008, 10:59:25 AM
Hear a lot about this yesterday on the news.  It happened when there was a sportsman show going on.  Members from the club said that usually there are more range officials than shooters on the line.  It appears that because of the show, they were overwhelmed.  Still, there are no excuses for such a tragic loss of life.  From what I've heard from actual members of the club was that the kid was being supervised and then asked if he wanted to try shooting the weapon by himself.  The supervisor was behind him, just not holding the weapon.  Just a horrible mistake.

No eight year old kid of mine will ever fire a lethal weapon.

All weapons are lethal.  But you are right, Xasthur.  No eight year old kid should have been handling this weapon alone.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 11:03:08 AM
No eight year old kid of mine will ever fire a lethal weapon.

This article is a screaming example of stupidity at its worst.

Mine already have, as did I, under DIRECT SUPERVISION.

Now they are not curious what it is like, nor will they try to satisfy that curiosity without me around.  
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on October 28, 2008, 02:56:38 PM
I'd say giving a large handgun to a 8-year old is questionable but doable under close supervision i.e. holding his hand.

Giving an uzi FULL AUTO knowing it's the first time the child ever tries something like this is criminally stupid. The parents and the supervisor should be sued for criminal negligence and manslaughter.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 28, 2008, 03:33:01 PM
I'd say giving a large handgun to a 8-year old is questionable but doable under close supervision i.e. holding his hand.

Giving an uzi FULL AUTO knowing it's the first time the child ever tries something like this is criminally stupid. The parents and the supervisor should be sued for criminal negligence and manslaughter.


I agree, prosecute. 

Stupidity should be painful.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: DYNAMITE on October 28, 2008, 03:34:58 PM
what a tragedy.

 :(
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Furball on October 28, 2008, 03:36:39 PM
Poor kid, poor father.  :(
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: bongaroo on October 28, 2008, 03:38:00 PM
Horrible news.  Let the kids learn under direct supervision with a bolt action, single shot loaded .22  How everyone in my family learned.

8 years seems awfully young still, and an AUTOMATIC uzi?  jeez.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: glock89 on October 28, 2008, 03:39:02 PM
Horrible news.  Let the kids learn under direct supervision with a bolt action, single shot loaded .22  How everyone in my family learned.

8 years seems awfully young still, and an AUTOMATIC uzi?  jeez.
Who give a 8 years old a uzi just him a handgun full of paintballs or something.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Xasthur on October 28, 2008, 08:30:40 PM
Mine already have, as did I, under DIRECT SUPERVISION.

Now they are not curious what it is like, nor will they try to satisfy that curiosity without me around.  

Good point. Kids do not have access to guns here, so I didn't think of it like that.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 28, 2008, 08:33:35 PM

I agree, prosecute. 

Stupidity should be painful.

I would think losing your son to a moment of poor judgment is the kind of painful that the law can never touch.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: mensa180 on October 28, 2008, 08:41:01 PM
I would think losing your son to a moment of poor judgment is the kind of painful that the law can never touch.

I agree, no prosecution needed here.  I have seen people lose children, and I can only imagine what this guy is going through...especially because it was his decision. 

Don't get me wrong, what he did wasn't right and it wasn't smart...But I wouldn't want to pile on and make things any worse for him at this point, he will have to live with this forever.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Newman5 on October 28, 2008, 10:07:51 PM
Having a young son myself, I cannot help but be overwhelmed by stories like this.  Any time a young innocent life like this is snuffed out it is a travesty.  Having fired automatic weapons myself many times I can picture in my mind exactly what happened and it is horrifying but predictable.  Such a young child should NEVER be allowed to fire such a weapon.  The boy's father will have to live with this horribly stupid and tragic mistake for the rest of his life.  I personally wouldn't be able to carry on.

Oh man, you couldn't have posted it more accurate for me.  I wouldn't be able to either.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 28, 2008, 10:28:41 PM
Out of curiosity, How many of you were there to see what happened?  Gross negligence was most likely a major factor but what if the kid wasn't following directions or accidentally discharged the weapon?  By all means, the instructor and father should have been very closely supervising the situation and bear some responsibility regardless of the circumstances.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: humble on October 28, 2008, 10:38:29 PM
I'm amazed that any qualified weapons instructor would let ANYONE fire a weapon on full auto initially with anything other then a partial clip. I am not familiar with the UZI so I do not know if it has an option that fires just 3 rounds like many others or not....but the 1st time I fired a thompson on full auto the range master only allowed 3 rds in the mag as a precaution and then only 10 rds. It's amazing how strong the "muzzle walk" is. Who ever the "instructor" is should be up on charges of some kind.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Kazaa on October 28, 2008, 10:52:40 PM
Why had a kid been given an instrument to kill another human being anyway ?
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 28, 2008, 11:25:34 PM
Why had a kid been given an instrument to kill another human being anyway ?

Like a car?
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Kazaa on October 28, 2008, 11:27:00 PM
You let kids drive over there also ?

edit: I should have wrote "an instrument made to purposely kill another human being."
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Skyeho on October 28, 2008, 11:48:17 PM
The only thing I was allowed to have at the age of 8 was a pellet gun.  An Uzi....that is insane. 
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Race on October 29, 2008, 12:08:52 AM
     Great.....more ammuntion to ban full auto guns. I would bet more kids die from a 9mm handgun than all full auto guns combined. Instead we make more laws to cover 20-30 kids a year who die from STUPIDITY (parents or otherwise). Banning full auto guns is comparable to banning concealed carry permits. How many permits are used in a crime? None? Granted conceal carry does more good but from the stand point of crimes involved they are very close. Ban the legal guns until most normal people cant have (or afford) and put rather limited effort into cleaning the streets of illegal guns or illegal ownership. My son will start shooting around that age just like I did and he will learn the right way. This is lack of supervision more than anything else. Would anyone be questioning this if the kid died on a gokart or knocked his head on a skateboard ramp? If the goal is to prevent all fatalies there are far better places to spend your time. Its all about guns this...guns that. What about the 5,000(or so per year) kids that died in fatal car crashes!

Race
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Hangtime on October 29, 2008, 03:08:12 AM
more kids die per year chasing soccer balls into traffic than die from accidental weapons discharge.

gonna outlaw soccer balls?


Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Kazaa on October 29, 2008, 04:39:39 AM
more kids die per year chasing soccer balls into traffic than die from accidental weapons discharge.

gonna outlaw soccer balls?




Statistics can be manipulated for your own desire, I would love to check your data. I'm sure that most American family's don't let their kids handle guns, let alone full automatic weapons. I'm also sure a lot of kids play soccer though. Sounds like a statistic the NRA would use.

I also think you should be looking away from the soccer ball and more towards what hit the child among other things.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on October 29, 2008, 07:06:43 AM
I would think losing your son to a moment of poor judgment is the kind of painful that the law can never touch.

While that's 100% true without a doubt, the prosecution should be done to set a legal presedence to deter future attempts on such stupidity. If not on the father then the instructor.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 29, 2008, 07:16:12 AM
While that's 100% true without a doubt, the prosecution should be done to set a legal presedence to deter future attempts on such stupidity. If not on the father then the instructor.

My point exactly.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: RTHolmes on October 29, 2008, 07:44:03 AM
I'm amazed that any qualified weapons instructor would let ANYONE fire a weapon on full auto initially with anything other then a partial clip.

really. as a kid we were allowed to fire a Bren only after becoming proficient with .22 then .303, and then it was with only 3or4 rounds in the clip, prone, and with a bipod.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: 007Rusty on October 29, 2008, 07:54:26 AM
very sad story  :(
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Shamus on October 29, 2008, 09:37:28 AM
I bet Mom is pissed.

shamus
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Modas on October 29, 2008, 12:50:14 PM
I'm sure that most American family's don't let their kids handle guns, let alone full automatic weapons.


Surely you jest.  I was shooting with my father (.22's and .410 shotgun) by the time was 8 (under his supervision), hunting with him at 10 (but not carrying) and carrying (while hunting) by myself at age 12 after taking hunters safety.  A fork is potentially just as dangerous to yourself as a firearm is if you aren't trained how to use it.  You could potentially stab yourself in the head with a fork while trying to feed yourself if you aren't properly trained.  A firearm is no exception.

Of course I'm being somewhat of a smart-butt with the fork analogy, but not much.  Its all about education, training and respect.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Hangtime on October 29, 2008, 01:50:46 PM
Statistics can be manipulated for your own desire, I would love to check your data. I'm sure that most American family's don't let their kids handle guns, let alone full automatic weapons. I'm also sure a lot of kids play soccer though. Sounds like a statistic the NRA would use.

I also think you should be looking away from the soccer ball and more towards what hit the child among other things.

right. how foolish of me. a complete humane solution must be applied.

outlaw children playing outside of state supervised cages.

it's the only sane choice.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: bongaroo on October 29, 2008, 03:28:04 PM
A fork is potentially just as dangerous to yourself as a firearm is if you aren't trained how to use it.  You could potentially stab yourself in the head with a fork while trying to feed yourself if you aren't properly trained.  A firearm is no exception.

A shot to the cheek by the untrained fork user is a shoddy comparison to your head being blown up by the untrained uzi user.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 29, 2008, 03:33:18 PM
A hoot to the cheek by the untrained fork user is a shoddy comparison to your head being blown up by the untrained uzi user.

You never ate lunch with Modas have you?
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Masherbrum on October 29, 2008, 03:34:28 PM
All a matter of perspective, I think.

Poll some Israeli's, find out how early they begin weapons training.  ( I honestly don't know, but I think it's pretty young)

So, I think the age is a non-factor.  Experience, and knowledge (or the lack thereof) is the important thing here.   Equally as important would be the lack of CLOSE supervision for the kids first time at it.  I.E. Dad being at his side so the kid got the feel for it, first.  Instead, this love muffin was grabbing for the camera.  Great parenting practices, Chuck.

It is directly, the father's and instructor's fault.  Father, knowing the child had never fired an Uzi before, and the instruc-tard for not asking or assisting the kid, himself.

These two statements negate each other.   
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 29, 2008, 07:10:09 PM
Feel free to elaborate.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Vulcan on October 29, 2008, 07:20:20 PM
Why had a kid been given an instrument to kill another human being anyway ?

Because it's a great way of disappating curiosity. The police here (NZ, where we have reasonable tough gun laws) recommend supervised handling and firing of weapons by children as good way to kill curiosity - and teaching respect for firearms. My 3.5 year old has handled my 223 and shot our air rifle. He's well aware of the consequences of the guns to the point where HE decided he did not want to handle the 223 as it was "danger".

However I doubt I'd trust myself on an uzi on automatic let alone an 8 year old.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: glock89 on October 29, 2008, 07:21:26 PM
Because it's a great way of disappating curiosity. The police here (NZ, where we have reasonable tough gun laws) recommend supervised handling and firing of weapons by children as good way to kill curiosity - and teaching respect for firearms. My 3.5 year old has handled my 223 and shot our air rifle. He's well aware of the consequences of the guns to the point where HE decided he did not want to handle the 223 as it was "danger".

However I doubt I'd trust myself on an uzi on automatic let alone an 8 year old.
Same.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: captain1ma on October 29, 2008, 07:34:35 PM
unfortunately its a very tragic accident. now this will give the anti-gunners in massachusetts just that much more ammunition. they're all screaming about it but the fact is, it is still just an accident. i dont see anyone banning cheerleading squads and more kids get kill cheerleading then they do with guns. i dont see anyone banning automobiles because of the 70,000 plus a year people getting killed by cars. lets take doctors, they're more dangerous then even loaded guns, why isnt anyone trying to ban them??

the fact is an 8 year old died yes
the fact is someone screwed up yes
the fact is this sort of thing almost never happens yes

so lets not get too crazy over its folks, take a deep breath, be greatful it wasnt your kid, and go on with your life. next week no one will care anyway.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Shamus on October 29, 2008, 08:43:55 PM
The instructor should never instruct again, don't think he should be charged criminally, hopefully tort reform has not insulated him totally from some responsibility.

Dad has already paid the price, anyone who thinks he should be charged is a heartless moron.

shamus     
 
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Masherbrum on October 29, 2008, 09:12:13 PM
Having a young son myself, I cannot help but be overwhelmed by stories like this.  Any time a young innocent life like this is snuffed out it is a travesty.  Having fired automatic weapons myself many times I can picture in my mind exactly what happened and it is horrifying but predictable.  Such a young child should NEVER be allowed to fire such a weapon.  The boy's father will have to live with this horribly stupid and tragic mistake for the rest of his life.  I personally wouldn't be able to carry on.

If anything happened to my Son, I'd be devastated.   I wouldn't be here on Earth long.   It'd be a hole that would never be filled.   
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 29, 2008, 10:31:00 PM
The instructor should never instruct again, don't think he should be charged criminally, hopefully tort reform has not insulated him totally from some responsibility.

Dad has already paid the price, anyone who thinks he should be charged is a heartless moron.

shamus     
 

What about just wearing a sign, Shamus?

Like a scarlet letter.

Heartless = yes

Moron = no

Just think that if he had cared enough when his son was alive, he wouldn't be dead.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: evenhaim on October 30, 2008, 06:21:46 AM
All a matter of perspective, I think.

Poll some Israeli's, find out how early they begin weapons training.  ( I honestly don't know, but I think it's pretty young)


You start at 16 with a week of m16 training and 1 day of range, then when you get drafted at 18.

I have personally fired the uzi and depending on what version of the uzi it is, it can have a little kick but nothing that any sensible person cant handle, the problem i suspect here was this poor child didnt know how to even hold the weapon let alone fire it safely. Blame is on the instrucer and father. I see no reason for an 8 year to even be holding a weapon, let the kid be a kid.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Modas on October 30, 2008, 07:18:58 AM
You never ate lunch with Modas have you?

hehehe, stupid forks...   :D
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 30, 2008, 07:31:29 AM
I was waiting for for you to show up   ;)

Happy belated New Year, and I hope you had an easy Yom Kippur.

How about on a personal level.  Do any families start teaching their kids about firearms earlier than 16?
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: humble on October 30, 2008, 09:31:58 AM
So what would the headline be if the poor kid had been spun (which can happen also) and gunned down his dad, the "instructor" and a few folks on the firing line + the odd spectator or two. Absolutely one of the most stupid things I've ever heard about.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: evenhaim on October 30, 2008, 11:00:30 AM
I was waiting for for you to show up   ;)

Happy belated New Year, and I hope you had an easy Yom Kippur.

How about on a personal level.  Do any families start teaching their kids about firearms earlier than 16?
lol thank you, Well not really but the thing is nearly everyone serves their compulsary service bieng anywhere from 2-3 years, many people sign keva which is like additional years and time to advance rank wise and postionwise, making the army a career for many many parents, i personally grew up with both parents in the army and father was in the golany חיר brigade so we always had a  gun around, and thats how it is for the majority of the country be it your brother mother father sister whoever depending on thier job that will have a semi automatic weapon in the house. Plus we are very numb to the weapon aspect as here soldiers walk in the streets with you, ride the train with you, and eat with you, all in uniform and weapon.

Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 30, 2008, 02:11:43 PM
That is how it was explained to me by my boss.

He was a bit freaked upon his first visit, but says he got over it.

I guess that was sort of what I was getting at.  Weapons and armed citizens are a way of life in some countries, and a culture shock to some others.  I bet you knew just how dangerous firearms (of all types) were at age 8, though.


Ever since we were granted the right to bear arms, there has been a constant flow of people who are trying to prove (mostly by their own stupidity) or take away, this right. 
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: evenhaim on October 30, 2008, 02:19:19 PM
That is how it was explained to me by my boss.

He was a bit freaked upon his first visit, but says he got over it.

I guess that was sort of what I was getting at.  Weapons and armed citizens are a way of life in some countries, and a culture shock to some others.  I bet you knew just how dangerous firearms (of all types) were at age 8, though.


Ever since we were granted the right to bear arms, there has been a constant flow of people who are trying to prove (mostly by their own stupidity) or take away, this right. 


your boss visit israel often?
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: VonMessa on October 30, 2008, 02:32:55 PM
A few times.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Skyeho on October 30, 2008, 03:02:28 PM
lol thank you, Well not really but the thing is nearly everyone serves their compulsary service bieng anywhere from 2-3 years, many people sign keva which is like additional years and time to advance rank wise and postionwise, making the army a career for many many parents, i personally grew up with both parents in the army and father was in the golany חיר brigade so we always had a  gun around, and thats how it is for the majority of the country be it your brother mother father sister whoever depending on thier job that will have a semi automatic weapon in the house. Plus we are very numb to the weapon aspect as here soldiers walk in the streets with you, ride the train with you, and eat with you, all in uniform and weapon.



I spent many years in Turkey and the sight of military with guns was very common.  Here in the states it would invoke a riot. 
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Getback on October 30, 2008, 03:13:45 PM
Father should get an Honorable Mention Darwin Award.  If I were the dad I would shoot myself to assure first prize.

My Gawd where are these guys brains. This is just horrible horrible horrible!
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Iron_Cross on October 30, 2008, 08:17:00 PM
My daughter had learned the four rules, and ten commandments of gun safety, by age 8.  When she was 11, I took her down to the range/gun shop and let her pick out her very own pistol (.22), and as a special treat we rented a MP-40 machine gun.  She was curious, and after about 10-12 rounds, didn't want to continue(curiosity sated).  I was on her left side, the instructor/clerk was behind her, and we were both ready to take control of the weapon, in case she was not able to control it. 

There's no such thing as an accidental shooting, only criminal negligence.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Xasthur on October 31, 2008, 10:29:55 AM
Father should get an Honorable Mention Darwin Award.  If I were the dad I would shoot myself to assure first prize.

Anax, with a post like that you'd fit right in at Flame Warriors  :salute
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: OldBull on October 31, 2008, 12:12:31 PM
A weapon is a tool, nothing more, it has a specific purpose and like any tool should be respected, I would no more let my child handle a loaded weapon without proper instruction that I would let him try to operated a table saw or hay bailer without proper instruction. I was raised in a home where loaded weapons were always present, as was my son and from my earliest memories I was aware of the fact that my dads gun was NOT to be touched as was my son. This type of education didn't come from a two hour class on Saturday morning but was instilled as a way of life. I have great pity for this father, one moment of oversight has wrecked his family forever, prosecuting the father can't hurt him more than he has been hurt already nor will it bring back his son. He will live with this every minute of every day for the rest of his life.
Maj OldBull
XO Avengers
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Skyeho on October 31, 2008, 02:44:41 PM
I agree, it was a dumb to allow a child to handle a loaded weapon.  Especiallty one of such caliper.  However, it was a stupid thing to do not criminal. I feel sorry for the father.  He will have to live with how a stupid mistake changed his life forever. 
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: lasersailor184 on October 31, 2008, 03:49:13 PM
Hilarious, but delete.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Race on October 31, 2008, 03:56:31 PM
   First of all its CALIBER.

      Secondly its only a 9mm....hardly a hard kicking round. Its the full auto that really makes it a gun that can get out of control. For me it boils down to that fact that bad things happen. I never understood why people dont relate shooting to other sports that kids get hurt far more often. One of the first to come to mind is football....hardly a lethal sport none the less accidents happen where people are crippled and even die from some of those injuries. Go karting, jet skis, skate parks and many other fun things kids do quite often (comparatively) end with horrific results. I ask myself if people are really bothered by the death of a child or the fact that a gun was involved. Lets face it...if your really against fatal accidents then you must be against any kind of activity where fatal accidents happen. The alternative is that you dislike guns because of the stigma attached with thier past and deaths are a tragic reality. What really gets me is the fact that people use any excuse to down guns but really ignore alot of other things that cause far more accidents. It really borderlines on the hypocritical for a lot of people in my opinion.

Actually many anti-gun people are hypocrites regardless.....hate it or agree with its my opinion.

Race
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: glock89 on October 31, 2008, 04:51:59 PM
   First of all its CALIBER.

      Secondly its only a 9mm....hardly a hard kicking round. Its the full auto that really makes it a gun that can get out of control. For me it boils down to that fact that bad things happen. I never understood why people dont relate shooting to other sports that kids get hurt far more often. One of the first to come to mind is football....hardly a lethal sport none the less accidents happen where people are crippled and even die from some of those injuries. Go karting, jet skis, skate parks and many other fun things kids do quite often (comparatively) end with horrific results. I ask myself if people are really bothered by the death of a child or the fact that a gun was involved. Lets face it...if your really against fatal accidents then you must be against any kind of activity where fatal accidents happen. The alternative is that you dislike guns because of the stigma attached with thier past and deaths are a tragic reality. What really gets me is the fact that people use any excuse to down guns but really ignore alot of other things that cause far more accidents. It really borderlines on the hypocritical for a lot of people in my opinion.

Actually many anti-gun people are hypocrites regardless.....hate it or agree with its my opinion.

Race
Nice.  :aok
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Skyeho on October 31, 2008, 06:17:14 PM
It not a matter of CAlIBER.  I have had guns and would never hand one of my childern a loaded gun.  Especially an eight year old.  Dumb!! 
My children and I all have black belts in Taekwondo and compete regulary.  We get hurt all the time.  I hardly find any similarity between that and handing a small child a loaded gun.  We compete in a sport, no sport in handing a child a gun.
This is not an anti gun issue.  It is an issue whether or not this child should have had this gun in the first place.  PERIOD. 
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Race on October 31, 2008, 06:39:53 PM
      Let see things that an 8 year old might do that would be considered "sporting". Tree climbing, surfing, skateboarding, bike riding, swimming, and go karting is just a quick list of things kids would do around that age. The FACT is more kids die doing these activities than of accidental firearm related sporting events. I discount intentional acts for a number of reasons but the first being that there is no reasonable hope of totally eliminating the threat and most people are focusing on the fact that it was preventable. How many people want to ban Clorox because a kid was poisoned? How about swimming at the beach? Not many if any at all. I will say it again......all ACCIDENTAL deaths are preventable. Question is what are the real threats to kids? Guns dont come near the top of the list. So when did you call your local Congressman to stop these kids from swimming or taking a bike ride? What about those poisoned or burned with hot water?Those my friend are FAR more riskier propositions in terms of accidental deaths and all PREVENTABLE.

Race
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Fugita on October 31, 2008, 08:42:09 PM
This is truly tragic and it's just what the anti-gun crowd was waiting for here in the People's Republic of Taxachusetts. It was bad enough a few years ago when some lady went into an indoor gun range in Worcester, rented a pistol then went out on the firing line and blew her brains out. All the liberal wackos tried to have a field day with that. God only knows what will happen because of this.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: MotleyCH on December 04, 2008, 06:27:25 PM
Updated news on this tragedy.

Police chief, gun club indicted in boy's Uzi death

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081204/ap_on_re_us/boy_shoots_himself_1

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/nation/story/393663.html
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: ROX on December 05, 2008, 08:44:31 AM
Story link does not work...acts as if story is a "premium" item.




ROX
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: john9001 on December 05, 2008, 12:10:19 PM
the dad picked out that gun for his son to shoot, the dad was not charged, lawyers look for deep pockets.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: ODBAL on December 05, 2008, 12:27:45 PM
Mine already have, as did I, under DIRECT SUPERVISION.

Now they are not curious what it is like, nor will they try to satisfy that curiosity without me around.  

I agree, I grew up in a house with firearms and was taught how to safely use them, and RESPECT them at an early age.  I did the same with my son and removed the element of curiosity where guns are concerned.  Another key is lead by example and teach safety every chance you get.  My son is now 16, fired weapons from Pistols, shotguns, AR-15s, and even a full auto AK47. He is familiar with guns, and shooting to the point that the mystery has been been removed so there is no curiosity.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: mechanic on December 05, 2008, 12:52:08 PM
Tragic. The stupidity of giving a child an UZI is unfathomable. Giving an 8year old an AK-47 on full auto would be safer.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Nefarious on December 05, 2008, 12:54:13 PM
Tragic. The stupidity of giving a child an UZI is unfathomable. Giving an 8year old an AK-47 on full auto would be safer.

 :huh
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: mechanic on December 05, 2008, 01:06:16 PM
maybe being a Brit i am clueless, but i figured this to be the difference.

(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/radius.JPG)

one gives you a headache the other doesnt hurt ever again.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: superpug1 on December 05, 2008, 01:09:37 PM
I think what he is trying to say is that an AK would be easier controlled by a little kid who most likely had no wrist strength. Your whole body s used to stabilize the weapon, not just your arms, therefore the chances of it jumping out of his hands and killing him or others is less.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: mechanic on December 05, 2008, 01:13:54 PM
Think of the radius. I dont have to draw little weapons on that diagram with the AK47 rifle banging you on the forehead and the UZI pointing under your chin.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 05, 2008, 01:50:45 PM
It not a matter of CAlIBER.  I have had guns and would never hand one of my childern a loaded gun.  Especially an eight year old.  Dumb!! 
My children and I all have black belts in Taekwondo and compete regulary.  We get hurt all the time.  I hardly find any similarity between that and handing a small child a loaded gun.  We compete in a sport, no sport in handing a child a gun.
This is not an anti gun issue.  It is an issue whether or not this child should have had this gun in the first place.  PERIOD. 


What he said.  It's not the gun, or really even the age.  It's training.  What to expect when you fire.  Would you let an untrained 20 year old, never been in a car, drive?

I'm also flabbergasted by all the youtube videos of "I'm going to let my girlfriend fire my Desert Eagle/Mossberg Shotgun and laugh when the kick hurts her".  It's Darwinian at best.


wrongway
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Nefarious on December 05, 2008, 02:03:42 PM
I think what he is trying to say is that an AK would be easier controlled by a little kid who most likely had no wrist strength. Your whole body s used to stabilize the weapon, not just your arms, therefore the chances of it jumping out of his hands and killing him or others is less.

I own an AK-47, I weigh 180lbs, and the force from bump-firing is enough to push me off balance. I'm sure a FA AK would deliver the same results to an 8 year old.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: mechanic on December 05, 2008, 05:17:09 PM
Nef do you say that it would just as easy to rotate the ak as to shoot yourself in the head as the uzi?
I would have thought worst case scenario with the AK would be the boy falls over and drops the weaon with brusing to the ribs. Possibly hit someone else before himself. Maybe at a long stretch shot himself in the foot as he fell over.

Its obvious, letting a small child fire an ak47 is madness, I was simply stating that and uzi was that much more stupid again.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Borat on December 05, 2008, 07:09:42 PM
Maybe they should give 8 year old a rocket launcher instead. He will make a good Al - Qaida. Borat likes.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Nefarious on December 05, 2008, 07:51:12 PM
Nef do you say that it would just as easy to rotate the ak as to shoot yourself in the head as the uzi?
I would have thought worst case scenario with the AK would be the boy falls over and drops the weaon with brusing to the ribs. Possibly hit someone else before himself. Maybe at a long stretch shot himself in the foot as he fell over.

Its obvious, letting a small child fire an ak47 is madness, I was simply stating that and uzi was that much more stupid again.

Oh... Don't worry I agree. The fact that the child was allowed to shoot an Uzi was insane.

I'm not claiming I'm an expert just because I own an AK, anything could possibly happen when you hand a child a full auto weapon. I might envision the child spinning around the possibly spraying the observers, which could have happened with the Uzi, it's hard to tell. The fact the AK is larger may have allowed an 8 year old to hold the rifle while losing his balance, possibly afraid to let go.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: Vulcan on December 06, 2008, 04:28:47 AM
      Let see things that an 8 year old might do that would be considered "sporting". Tree climbing, surfing, skateboarding, bike riding, swimming, and go karting is just a quick list of things kids would do around that age. The FACT is more kids die doing these activities than of accidental firearm related sporting events. I discount intentional acts for a number of reasons but the first being that there is no reasonable hope of totally eliminating the threat and most people are focusing on the fact that it was preventable. How many people want to ban Clorox because a kid was poisoned? How about swimming at the beach? Not many if any at all. I will say it again......all ACCIDENTAL deaths are preventable. Question is what are the real threats to kids? Guns dont come near the top of the list. So when did you call your local Congressman to stop these kids from swimming or taking a bike ride? What about those poisoned or burned with hot water?Those my friend are FAR more riskier propositions in terms of accidental deaths and all PREVENTABLE.

Race

Thats a retarded statement. How often does an 8 year old climb a tree versus how often does an 8 year old fire an uzi. I'd guarantee if you compared the accident rate of deaths per uzi fired versus deaths per tree climbed the uzi would be very high.

How many of those 'sporting' events use equipment specifically designed to kill? Skateboards? No. Surfboards? No. Bikes? No. Go Karts? No.

Do these sporting events aim for high levels of safety? Are kids told to wear knee/pads head protection skateboard? Yes. Helmets biking? Yes. Life jackets board sailing? Yes. Helmets go karting? Yes.

Take the patch of your eye and start looking at this with a little reality.
Title: Re: 8 year old at a gun show
Post by: john9001 on December 06, 2008, 09:28:21 AM
How many of those 'sporting' events use equipment specifically designed to kill?

fencing, archery, javelin.