Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: trotter on October 28, 2008, 06:43:19 PM
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With Combat Tour now waterlogged and drifting off, slowly sinking, I am thinking back to one of the aspects of that promised game that I was somewhat looking forward to. We were told that we would be able to gain experience for our virtual pilot, which could then be invested in attributes of our choice...such as better vision (see icons farther off), better G tolerance (less frequent blackouts), etc. I believe there was also talk about an overall ranking or level system, and some character control outside of the cockpit.
These are RPG (role playing game) elements, and I am still undecided as to whether or not they would be a good thing for AH.
Argument 1, against RPG elements
Those of us who have played RPG's in the past know how lame the behavior of the player base is. People go off the deep end at the prospect of leveling their character to the extreme, and purchasing all sorts of attributes and goodies that make their player "better" than the "newbs". It really is a sad thing to see, and although player manipulation of score happens to an extent in our current AH setup, but literally nothing like how it gets when playing more = makes it easier for you to win.
From a combat element standpoint, it certainly would not help newer players that they are flying against pilots who operate under a more forgiving interpretation of the simulated physical environment. Also, having your pilot gain attributes and essentially make the game easier for you will not truly help your own skills progress.
This game is best as it is now, with every pilot and plane entirely equal under the laws of the game, whereas individual skill (and, to some extent, computer hardware) is the only determining factor in the outcome of battle.
Argument 2, for RPG elements
This game has no purpose. Land grab and dogfighting are both equally circular racetracks, with no overriding accomplishments. Every time you end sortie, you are essentially forgotten in the AH world. Every time you up, you are reborn, with no record of accomplishments or tenure (aside from score, which itself is obscure and is reset each month).
Why play a game that forgets you so quickly and mercilessly? An online game that essentially disconnects your character when you log off?
My opinion
As you can see, I could not think of many arguments to put into Argument #2. This sort of gives away where I stand on the issue. I really think AH is unique in that very very few other MMO games give newbies the exact same chance as a veteran player. Plus, mastering an aspect of this game is made all the more special by the fact that no "attribute boost" or "special equipment" helped you get there.
(I might actually favor having an RPG arena with those things, and another arena that is the same as we have it now. Not sure which one would be more consistently populated over time.)
There is one aspect of RPG that I think would make the game more immersive and can be applied to all arenas. I would love to have some sort of "outside of the plane/vehicle" character control. Nothing along the lines of infantry combat, but just instead of being a spirit in the tower and then pressing "SW" to come to life, how about each player begins as the pilot in the tower. From there they can run (yes, we'd have to make pilot movement faster) to areas such as the hanger, or briefing room where departing pilots can post for all to see, if they choose, objectives as to where they are heading/what needs to be brought where, and when. Would make each team feel more like a team, and less a bunch of planes that are brief acquaintances before heading their separate ways.
What do you think about RPG elements in AH? There's much more I could think of, including some big problems in my own idea just listed above, but I am tired of typing about this.
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Isn't it a RPG already? I mean, so many players claim just acting "in character" when behaving like complete morons... :uhoh
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Isn't it a RPG already? I mean, so many players claim just acting "in character" when behaving like complete morons... :uhoh
persona. :rofl
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I could never support any RPG system that introduces "levels" that affect in any way the performance of pilot or aircraft. No, I'm level x so I can sustain more Gs through a hard turn or nonsense like that.
I like it how it is. Steep learning curve, but very little is contrived.
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Wouldn't that make us all nerds playing an RPG instead of a tough guy combat sim.........
you know what, Don't answer that.
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I could never support any RPG system that introduces "levels" that affect in any way the performance of pilot or aircraft. No, I'm level x so I can sustain more Gs through a hard turn or nonsense like that.
I like it how it is. Steep learning curve, but very little is contrived.
I agree!
But it would be pretty cool if you had to run out of the briefing room (or officers club) and jump into a jeep with somebody on a 50 in the back, shootin at vulchers while you try to make it to your waiting plane.
An option to bypass the Rpg element of the game might not be a bad thing either. Instant up!!
Anyways, :salute to the OP. Very well presented item for discussion.
Not sure how tough it would be to do though.
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I could never support any RPG system that introduces "levels" that affect in any way the performance of pilot or aircraft. No, I'm level x so I can sustain more Gs through a hard turn or nonsense like that.
I like it how it is. Steep learning curve, but very little is contrived.
I agree completely. I want to win or lose a fight on a level playing field. Winning a fight with my ability and planes performance means everything to me. I want a flight simulator, not a xbox game. :salute
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I've played Flight Sims for over a decade and "built up" my character's "abilities" on my own. I don't need an in game system to tell me what I can and can't do. The physical limitations of the airframe do that just fine.
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Would i welcome it?? :huh.. "NO" if any players want RPG games go get an X-box spend youre 50 bucks on a RPG game then you can eat all the magic mushrooms, gather all the shiney coins and fly around with youre magic spaceboots all ya want it has no place here.
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I think that besides having the "level up" element , it wouldn't be a bad thing.
If your GV gets tracked or you run outta ammo, you can get out of the vehicle and run to and get in another vehicle(or not - just tower out) and take over on an unused gun. (kinda like joining a bomber)
Or running from the tower etc, to hop into mannable ack.
Its not that bad an idea,on a limited basis.
But definately no "level up" aspect please.
And would have to have a way to bypass it if you didn't want to use it.
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Isn't it a RPG already? I mean, so many players claim just acting "in character" when behaving like complete morons... :uhoh
Too true :rofl
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This game already does have RPG elements to it, one of them are known as 'perks' which is the basic equivilent to earning 'experience points' in other more traditional based MMORPGs. Though, we do not use these perks to 'level' up our character, we instead use them to be able to access more 'powerful' planes.
ack-ack
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I never saw any substantial value to TOD simply because they could have had 95% of the benefits at less than 10% of the cost by supporting the scenario crowd which does most all of those things and much more. Building on what you have frequently provides a much higher return on investment than neglecting it in favor of the unknown.
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I hope this game doesn't turn into Americas Army with its honor system, but that is the only other online game besides AHII that I play :uhoh. As said before I don't want leveling up. I like the aspect that it is a game that has the same chance no matter how long you have been playing/ how experienced you are. Ever since childhood I have loved aviation. I don't want this to become more of an RPG, instead of a flight simulator.
I would welcome an RPG aspect to this game, but on a limited basis.
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Well I'm not a big fan of the RPG type of game either.
But <SALUTE> to you SIR! this is a very interesting topic and you presented some basic pro's and con's very very well.
I don't think my idea would really fall into the realm of RPG, but I will put it here for the harsh criticisms of all those gentel souls out there in cartoon air plane land.
We already attain a "score" and "ranking" or "level" each month, well my thought is based on this preexisting condition.
If each group of say 5 or 10 pilots (i.e. pilots ranked numbers 1 through 10) were given a title or rank say call them air marshalls for lack of a better name. then numbers 11 through 20 you give the title general and so on until you have covered the highest 150 or 200 players.
everyone below the top ranked 200 or what amount is chosen is untitled, just a run of the mill sky Jockey.
your rank and the process for attaining it each tour remains as it is now, and it is subject to change each tour depending on your performance through out the previous month.
now here is the actual point to this, (yes there is more than a silly title) make each titled player worth a higher perk value!
If i shot down who ever is number 200 this month then he is worth the normal perk points for his ride as apposed to mine as it is now, but then there is a multiplier or set modifier for downing someone at that rank. i have no idea what would be reasonable as far as assigning an incrementally increasing multiplier for each rank, so i will leave that to those that are smarter. but the point being that if i instead downed a pilot who was ranked number 50 he would be worth far more perks than the pilot ranked at 200.
now you can also reverse that, a higher ranked player downing a lower ranked player gets a downward modifier earning the pilot less points (dictated by the victims rank) if any for the kill. that would intice those of higher rank to fly the non-uber rides so that they could gain perks.
so in essence, if player ranked 5000 kills the number 1 ranked player then the perkie payout is huge, but if, as is most likely, the number 1 ranked player kills player ranked number 5000 then he gets squat maybe nothing for his trouble.
it doesn't change the way people get their rank, only the perk points they get for their kills.
well just my thoughts.
FLOTSOM
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The problem being rank is gameable and pretty much pointless. It would be a retard fest.
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oh great....Thanks! Some guy dot wingmans LYNX then PM's a geezer from the other side saying LYNX is in sector so n so going to field XYZ. Then the baddies up like flies for the LYNX perk multiplier kill.
Actually...thinking about it...fantactic idea .....bring it on :devil
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blah blah blah...
CT *was* the RPG aspect. I'd rather see them implement other stuff like filling out the planeset (subject to availability of data), or expand the naval and ground aspects, sort of like WWIIOL, but with the quality we expect from HTC.
<never tried WWIIOL>
and seriously, how could this game, especially the main arenas even benefit from any RPG aspects? There's not that many military ranks, yanno? nor ways to use those "priviledges." <edit> well, except for the perkies.
plus i think several have touched upon this being a meritocracy... you get where you are by your own skills (which can be gamed of course).
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I've played Flight Sims for over a decade and "built up" my character's "abilities" on my own. I don't need an in game system to tell me what I can and can't do. The physical limitations of the airframe do that just fine.
Ok, Who wrote this for Stang?
i know he wasn't smart enough to think of this on his own.
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Go play WoW. :aok
The best thing about AH2 is that I can jump in a plane and go find a fight.
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Ok, Who wrote this for Stang?
i know he wasn't smart enough to think of this on his own.
P1ss 0ff no0b i pwn jo0 yeah rawk 0n!1!
:rock
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if RPG means melting troops with napalm, lets rock and roll. But yea, no level up B.S. if it ever got that far.
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Not interested in RPG before some graphics engine updating and HTC are back on track putting out planes/vehicles/maps regularly.
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I already thought it had an RPG element to it, except rather then leveling up your character your leveling up your own skills. Unless you just fly as a tard by vulching and picking edges of furballs for score. Then you'll never break level 10 for your dweeb character plus easy ride. :lol
<S>...-Gixer
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I had no idea that CT intended a player to "level-up." That's lame. I like the basic CT idea in so far as it would be like a drop-in-when-you-like scenario.
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I had no idea that CT intended a player to "level-up." That's lame. I like the basic CT idea in so far as it would be like a drop-in-when-you-like scenario.
well u had to go thru "training" to be eligible for better rides, and i woud have imagined some performance gains. i forgot as it's been so long since i read about it.
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oh great....Thanks! Some guy dot wingmans LYNX then PM's a geezer from the other side saying LYNX is in sector so n so going to field XYZ. Then the baddies up like flies for the LYNX perk multiplier kill.
Actually...thinking about it...fantactic idea .....bring it on :devil
actually LYNX you were one of the people i had in mind :devil
it has nothing to do with levels or gaining attributes or anything else. it would be incentive to hunt down the better players and engage them, essentially it would be putting a bounty on them.
and as far as the possible number of names of the ranks go, like i said i was just giving a for instance on the numbers. as you go further back from first enlarge the number of pilots per group, say 5 in the first then 10 in the second 15 in the third ect, or mix the names of rank from all of the countries that fought or just make it up. whatever, the names would be the least important issue.
FLOTSOM
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What do you think about RPG elements in AH?
I think I'm glad we won't be seeing them. Our current rank system is bad enough. Turning it into an actual rank system would be far worse.
- oldman
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im down with anything they give us, i just hope it comes quick :D
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No "powerups" please! One of the things that appeals so strongly to me about AH is that it is completely even playing field for everyone, and I would rather not see this change.
Now bring on the new toys HTC!!! :rock
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No frakin rpg jive. I just wanna be me and fly a nice wwii "Flight Sim".
all the rest is horse stuffing!
:rock
<S>
zuii
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I could never support any RPG system that introduces "levels" that affect in any way the performance of pilot or aircraft. No, I'm level x so I can sustain more Gs through a hard turn or nonsense like that.
I like it how it is. Steep learning curve, but very little is contrived.
I'm with Dave.
Basically in RPG you're asking for a source code advantage. I don't like that. Do you eventually go to "God Command". I don't think things are totally erased when you exit. For one you have stats and another you have films.
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Well as stated above we do already have a persona which gathers perks and attains score.
However score matters little to many and perks are such that they are nearly always available when we want them to do what ever they permit.
I do not think that gaining advantage thru rank would bring anything to the melee that is the general arenas..............
I like the idea of using perks to purchase or access via deposit certain ordinance load outs.
I take the point that the arenas are very much these days a series of 1 mission/flight/journey events that have little game play beyond the singularity of each mission. (accepting the role played in Land Grab)
The land grab and strategic target models are "well worn" to those of us who have played for some time.
If the game were only about land grab then the heavy formation bombers would be used much more than now. So its clear that whilst land grab can focus some game play activity it does not heavily influence choice of ride.
In truth the most significant RPG aspect is that we are a community of folk who play this game. We actually know each other quite well through our interactions and we do develop relationships (and reputations)to a greater or lesser extent with other folk. This is a direct product of the requirement to compete with and develop team work with other players and player groups.
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In truth the most significant RPG aspect is that we are a community of folk who play this game. We actually know each other quite well through our interactions and we do develop relationships (and reputations)to a greater or lesser extent with other folk. This is a direct product of the requirement to compete with and develop team work with other players and player groups.
Good point. The actual community that has developed is as strong or stronger than any sense of community imposed upon us by levels.
This is aided by the fact that those who play this game for a while are more or less like-minded people. It takes a certain type of online gamer to accept the type of gameplay AH provides. Many people boot up this game and expect to start "questing" and "leveling up" their pilot by "farming NPC's". When they realize that there does not exist a linear relationship between time invested and reputation earned in the community, they give up.
This is why I was going to say that I was somewhat surprised the responses so far are overwhelmingly anti-RPG, but then realized that almost all the pro-RPG people are gone after their two week trial.
This begs the question though:
Would HTC net more income by making this game appeal to RPG'ers? It is obvious from the trends in the flight simulation genre compared to the MMORPG genre that there are more willing buyers out there for MMORPG games. Would the generated income by transforming this game offset the cost of the transformation? I certainly think it would. Then, as a corollary question, is the intrinsic value of having this game remain a "pure" simulation worth more to Dale and the crew than the extra income the game would earn if it was made RPG?*
*Hitech, this is a hypothetical question, don't get any ideas!
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*Hitech, this is a hypothetical question, don't get any ideas!
Shhhhh!
Don't put visions of WoW revenues into Hitech's head!
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Shhhhh!
Don't put visions of WoW revenues into Hitech's head!
Leerooy ...... Jenkins.....!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCNJRfSZBU
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Argument 2, for RPG elements
This game has no purpose. Land grab and dogfighting are both equally circular racetracks, with no overriding accomplishments. Every time you end sortie, you are essentially forgotten in the AH world. Every time you up, you are reborn, with no record of accomplishments or tenure (aside from score, which itself is obscure and is reset each month).
Why play a game that forgets you so quickly and mercilessly? An online game that essentially disconnects your character when you log off?
My opinion
This is the nub of the matter to me.
I can understand, and support, not having any sort of 'level-up' elements that give you abilities beyond a level playing field. To some extent perks give you 'extra ability' but I don't find it unbalancing.
But, I absolutely love how eloquently you put that part above that I quoted. I feel no connection to my 'in-game' persona, whatever that is. Even my score is erased monthly.
I'd love to see some 'character' aspect to this game. I don't know exactly what it would be, but perhaps an in-game bio that assigned attributes to you, or characterized you, based upon some matrix of how you played, what you flew, what you killed, etc. I don't know how you would flesh this out.
But as it stands, AH2 is really not a whole lot more than quake with wings as it is now. Which can be fun for what it is. But I'd love more depth to this game.
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This thread has begun to show two general types of persons and how their brain architecture seeks reward.
Type-1.) Give me a level playing feild and I will take my lumps until I can beat everyone at every aspect of this game. I own you all because I paid the price.
Type-2.) I want to show everyone how intellegent, resourcefull, accomplished and clever I am. I want to be valued and respected by my community for this.
Type-1 dominate the MA and the DA. They do not need rank because they are known by anyone who flys past the free 2 week. Their personal dominance of the arenas creates the benchmarks of accomplishment and the unspoken ranks of attainment. If I say 999000, we all know to fear attacking B17's from the rear. If I say shane, steve or stang.......we know how to test our real rank in the game. Call one out to the DA. When you achieve this ability, players remember you for years because you made that real of an impact on the game. 999000 is remembered from AW as the same lethal B17 pilot. shane was a poni monster in AW.
Type-2 are the reason we have the Special Operations Arenas and an incredible Training Core. In the game these are the players who would like more of a ridged hierarcical reward system by which they can attaine through alternate paths the same name recognition as shane. Tour of Duty would have given them the ability via a frame work of fixed steps, ridged assignments and the anonymous nature of AI to gain the rank and recognition by their peers in ToD. This is much harder to attain in the unstructered MA of shane. But who would remember anyone past the first player to acheive the rank of Grand ToD Phooba number 1?
I flew the friday night squad ops and some of the snap shots for a year when I was in the 56th with Nomde. One would have thought with the amount of bureaucracy, planning, strategy and ridgid goals, the Type-2 in AH would be satisfied. Anyone of them can start out as Grand Phooba and control a whole scenario. And if you win, scenario goers will remember you..............Grand Phooba of ToD is no substitute for the rank 999000 or shane have earned in our memories.
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NO
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Leerooy ...... Jenkins.....!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCNJRfSZBU
:rofl
You know, that's been around for quite awhile now, but I still get a chuckle out of it.
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Stang and Bipolar will be the (http://www.world-of-smilies.com/wos_sonstige/magician.gif)
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Stang and Bipolar will be the (http://www.world-of-smilies.com/wos_sonstige/magician.gif)
Hmmm, I don't really know Bipolar. Just read his posts here on the BBS... For some reason, I pictured him more like this...
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/73980988_84aa7b125a_o.jpg)
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LMFO Nice dude :aok
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Hmmm, I don't really know Bipolar. Just read his posts here on the BBS... For some reason, I pictured him more like this...
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/73980988_84aa7b125a_o.jpg)
DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!
thas hank the angry drunken dwarf :rock :rock :rock
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NO to RPG style play.
YES to updated graphics, new planes, new feilds, citys, tgt's, and perhaps an updated ground war, and doing away with scoring system all together.
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DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!
thas hank the angry drunken dwarf :rock :rock :rock
That would a level 8 dwarf to you ! :aok
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With Combat Tour now waterlogged and drifting off, slowly sinking, I am thinking back to one of the aspects of that promised game that I was somewhat looking forward to. We were told that we would be able to gain experience for our virtual pilot, which could then be invested in attributes of our choice...such as better vision (see icons farther off), better G tolerance (less frequent blackouts), etc. I believe there was also talk about an overall ranking or level system, and some character control outside of the cockpit.
No and I'll tell you why.. It would make it even harder for new players to compete. Lets face it, this game already has a long learning curve and that should be all the advantage you need.
I'll give you an example.. The start of this month I decided to give Eve-Online a try with it's 2 week trial. That has the same kind of system as you proposed but of course much more in depth. The problem was it took hours upon hours to train up your skills, so here I am a 2 week noob trying to do some player vs player battles. Well needless to say I got smoked every single battle simply because my skills wernt trained up to be able to use this or that. It had nothing do do with how well I could physically play the game, because I had no chance against guys that had played it for years and built up all these trained skills.
The basics of the game is fine IMHO.. We just need a way to encourage players to fight and focus on actually improving their "actual" skills vs looking for easy ways to gain score like so many of the players do today.
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The basics of the game is fine IMHO.. We just need a way to encourage players to fight and focus on actually improving their "actual" skills vs looking for easy ways to gain score like so many of the players do today.
this is why i believe that if you place a bounty on the heads of the better players then newer players would be encouraged to seek them out and engage them. the idea changes nothing about the attributes of the player or the plane, he wins or loses on his own real life ability. but it encourages him by giving him higher perks and bragging rights that he downed a ranked player.
it also does not award those that work their score to gain a high rank by hunting out the noobs or dweebs while flying uber-rides. play the hard road to earn the perkies.
one more additional side effect is that it cuts the amount of perkies a ranked player will gain making it harder for them to afford to fly the uber-rides constantly. nothing more annoying than a high ranked player that wont get out of the 262.
FLOTSOM
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this is why i believe that if you place a bounty on the heads of the better players then newer players would be encouraged to seek them out and engage them. the idea changes nothing about the attributes of the player or the plane, he wins or loses on his own real life ability. but it encourages him by giving him higher perks and bragging rights that he downed a ranked player.
it also does not award those that work their score to gain a high rank by hunting out the noobs or dweebs while flying uber-rides. play the hard road to earn the perkies.
one more additional side effect is that it cuts the amount of perkies a ranked player will gain making it harder for them to afford to fly the uber-rides constantly. nothing more annoying than a high ranked player that wont get out of the 262.
FLOTSOM
Doing that would just encourage hoarding.. You would end up with tards spying and doing .wingman on the player with a bounty, then 5 or 6 of his buddies would go hunt him down.
As far as perks go, I'd only change one thing. I'd give more reward for risking your perks in a high perk ride. I mean what the heck, I take up a 262 risking 200 some odd perks, land with 5 or 6 kills and I'm lucky to earn 1 or 2 perks. If you are risking the perks you should get a better reward if you manage to land your kills.
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this is why i believe that if you place a bounty on the heads of the better players then newer players would be encouraged to seek them out and engage them. the idea changes nothing about the attributes of the player or the plane, he wins or loses on his own real life ability. but it encourages him by giving him higher perks and bragging rights that he downed a ranked player.
it also does not award those that work their score to gain a high rank by hunting out the noobs or dweebs while flying uber-rides. play the hard road to earn the perkies.
one more additional side effect is that it cuts the amount of perkies a ranked player will gain making it harder for them to afford to fly the uber-rides constantly. nothing more annoying than a high ranked player that wont get out of the 262.
FLOTSOM
Rank is easily gameable and therefore little indication of skill. Who says the higher ranked player wants to be griefed?
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Doing that would just encourage hoarding.. You would end up with tards spying and doing .wingman on the player with a bounty, then 5 or 6 of his buddies would go hunt him down.
well if he is truly skilled and not a milk runner then he will welcome the fights wont he? if he is a fighter Jockey of the purest sense then 5 or 6 or even 10 noobs wont amount to that much of a challenge. i don't see shawk or shreck or Lynx or grim or skyrock running from that group.
people hoard and pick people already, this just gives more motivation for people to hunt down the opponents who have some kind of skill.
it also reduces the perks of those that just want to pick on noobs and score hore while flying their F-16's. they don't get much of a pay off from it.
Rank is easily gameable and therefore little indication of skill. Who says the higher ranked player wants to be griefed?
well if they don't want to be as you say griefed then why are they playing? the game is about fighting, not flying around in cartoon airplane land admiring the scenery. if they don't want to fight then maybe they are in the wrong game.
if score is completely irrelevant to skill then why isn't there any first month or two players in the top few hundred? if they have a high rank then they must have some level of skill, if they earned it by faking or milking it then i guess the joke will be on them in the end wont it?
FLOTSOM
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I personally like the idea of perks being multiplied by the amount of nme or friendlies in the immediate area,of the kill.
my score would be great :lol
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I'm sure they all want a flock of newbs following them around ramming and hoing them at every chance. Ya, that will go over well.
Newbs may not figure it our immediately but it does not take long to learn how to game the scoring system. Your premise is fundamentally flawed on every level. There are plenty of good ways to use a perk economy but this isn't one of them.
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Dang, I was hoping you were asking about rocket propelled grenades for taking out that lone tiger guarding the map room. :lol
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Hmm Ive been playing for 3 yrs and still haven't leveled up to a good pilot it takes a lot of work. I like ace high the way it is.
I think the nuke would be fun though lol one bomb nuke the whole sector. but it should cost 10,000 perks and we all get our perks reset.
can you imagine the perk farming that would happen. lol
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actually LYNX you were one of the people i had in mind :devil
it has nothing to do with levels or gaining attributes or anything else. it would be incentive to hunt down the better players and engage them, essentially it would be putting a bounty on them.
and as far as the possible number of names of the ranks go, like i said i was just giving a for instance on the numbers. as you go further back from first enlarge the number of pilots per group, say 5 in the first then 10 in the second 15 in the third ect, or mix the names of rank from all of the countries that fought or just make it up. whatever, the names would be the least important issue.
FLOTSOM
I'm not all opposed to this. I see that it could be beneficial to all concerned :D
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No to airwow. Want to see more realism like lead computing gun sights, a more meaningful strat system, more vehicles and planes that are as realistic as they can be without regards to bring fair. Fairness is what perks are meant to be spent on. Like paying for perk planes. You are paying to take up that ride that would be unfair to use without paying for it right? Graphics updates and a complete planeset. Give us the toys in the sandbox no matter what they are. Perk what you must to keep it "fair" but make it realistic short of a half hour walk around before going hunting. We the player will take care of the rest.
Nitro
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Dang, I was hoping you were asking about rocket propelled grenades for taking out that lone tiger guarding the map room. :lol
LOL. Yeah, what I should have said: Would you welcome a rear-aspect RPG to this game? :lol
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You guys are missing the point of, what I think trotter was saying, in his original post:
This game is like a freaking treadmill. You get on, you fly around, you shoot down dudes, but you never actually get anywhere.
I've only been playing for, like, 18 months. But even after that 'relatively' short amount of time, I find myself wondering why I bother ALOT lately. Check my stats (but not too hard). My playing is way skewed to the left. I started. Got into it. Joined a squad. Got REALLY into it. Got decent in it. Branched out. Started exploring the planeset. Did ok. And then...well, I started wondering where I was going with all these virtual hours of flight time.
I have alot of hours in flight sims over my lifetime. The thing that separates AH2 from, say, Falcon 4, is that there's no GOAL in AH2. It's a treadmill. A hamster wheel. There's no goal to achieve, no campaign to conquer, nothing beyond the 30 seconds and 600 yards in front of my prop. Every month I get a clean slate, every trip to the tower I get a new life. One month I can be a chump, the next month I can be a hero.
I suppose I can't say it better than trotter already did. So I'll stop here.
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A solution looking for a problem?
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Toss out all that other garbage, give us a "virtual" G.I.Canteen for our
"created" flyboys, we'll call it an RPG.
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A solution looking for a problem?
Too kind Moot.
Fast Food Generation whining.
Remember the real Aces High game is played between the ears. It's not Hitech's job to take the place of the brain.
Role playing is like Science Fiction conventions. Ever see anyone show up not as the uber doober hero of the galaxy?
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Too kind Moot.
"Too kind"? Exactly what about this subject deserves anything less than civil discussion? What, did you get stomped on by an RPG nerd once and now want bad boy forum revenge?
Not one person in this thread, including myself, has taken up the opinion that a full transition to RPG wizardry would be a good thing for AH. So who, exactly, are you so angry at? Troll on WoW forums if you have such deep issues.
And regarding your assumption about character types:
You'd actually be surprised how many people are willing to role play in less desirable roles. I played a RPG once for a few months, got out of it because I couldn't stand the community of teens and RPGish-ness, but nonetheless saw very many people who built up trader/support role characters, rather than the fighter/hero type.
We have this altruistic type in AH currently. You know the guys...they are always willing to run a goon, run supplies, or go pork ords.
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I think he meant (like I did) to say that complaining that AH is a hamster wheel is very exagerated. And RPG probably wouldn't work in the MA. It's way too easy to abuse score unless there's enough framework like CT is supposed to have.
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What game is not a hamster wheel? What game has real accomplishments, victories, and defeats? What game is anything but a break from the day to day grind? If you can't have fun playing a game, the problem isn't necessarily the game.
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What game is not a hamster wheel? What game has real accomplishments, victories, and defeats? What game is anything but a break from the day to day grind? If you can't have fun playing a game, the problem isn't necessarily the game.
I think the point of the hamster wheel metaphor is to highlight the lack of a goal or aim-point in the game. Sure, every game is a hamster wheel in a very broad sense, but games which have a specific end point and goal don't fit the metaphor in the narrow way that AH does.
One of the appealing things about AH is that you can jump into the arena and do pretty much anything, and it's nearly impossible to negatively impact your team. Don't feel like being a team player? Not a problem.
But, yeah, sometimes it feels like a hamster wheel. ;)