Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CavemanJ on February 25, 2001, 02:00:00 PM
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Has some kind of damage boost crept into the buff/vehicle guns? Back in 1.05 they were pretty balanced I thought. These days it's rediculous. I can kill an aircraft with fewer rounds from the 4.50s on an M16 at 1k than I can with 4x.50 on P-51 when I'm saddled up at convergence (350yds).
I've also totally lost a wing to ONE ping from the .50s on a buff (including the tailguns on a Lanc) at ~400yds, but I can't cause that kind of damage with the .50s on my pony. Last I heard AH still plays a sound for each round that hits you. I still hear hits after I'm teleported back to the tower when my kites explodes or from the cannon shells of the DweebCs strafing my tank while they're extending to 1.5k to turn around and come back. This isn't netlag, because the hit sounds start when they first start firing, like they should.
I understand the need for playability, which is why the buff guns (and I assume vehicle guns as well) got the extension to thier maximum effective range (which on the .50s should be ~1600yds anyway but isn't), but something's deffinately gone awry.
And before you flaming pompom girls start saying I'm just whining cause I can't kill buffs, I used to argue with Pryo about the buff guns being too weak several versions back. Now they're deffinately too strong.
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I have a tough time believing this. You started squeaking on open about a month back when the tailgunner from Skernsk's Lancaster took off your wing with "one ping". This was, of course, after you had engaged my Lancaster and I had registered hit flashes on you.
I can barely hear it when those .303s start hitting my airframe...is it possible that you're just not hearing all of the pings?
SOB
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SOB, if I'm understanding you correctly, you believe the Lancs have a pair of .303s in the tail? We have Lancaster IIIs, which have twin .50s in the tail.
See also the "What's wrong with this picture" thread, where an M3 with only 1 .50 has removed wings with only ONE ping.
And I'm not just talking about Lancs, but every buff with .50 cal armament. There is some serious disparity in the damage done here.
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Us Buff pilots are pinging you more than once, it might seem like you are getting a one ping death, but in reality we are showering your planes with .50 fire and registering many many many hits.
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You can't "count" the pings accurately by listening to the sound. It doesn't work that way. Net lag and changing routing means you can "die" before you hear the pings, let alone all of them.
If you think something is out of whack, the only way to accurately test it is to do so from the shooter's side. Even then, if you are testing lethality, you would have to test using the shortest bursts possible, waiting a couple of seconds between bursts for the hits to register over the net.
The medium we operate in (the net) means that things are not always as they seem. It often seems like the shooter needs more hits than he really does, and the target dies to less hits than he really took. That's just the way it goes.
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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome! (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)
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C'mon we all know that air/vehicle gunners have added lethality. Anyone who has attacked a TBM or an M3 can understand it.
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I wonder how much they have..
I did once burst whole lot of M16 ammunition into C47 and it just didnt want to go down..
Was nice xmas tree all along its slow flight past me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
You can't "count" the pings accurately by listening to the sound. It doesn't work that way. Net lag and changing routing means you can "die" before you hear the pings, let alone all of them.
Leph I'm verra aware of the netlag bit. You need to go read my whole post again. I am NOT talking about net lag. If it were a net lag issue I'd still be getting a buncha pings after returning to the tower or while I was twisting down in a flaming heap of scrapped aluminum.
IIRC HT coded it so you hear EVERY hit on your airframe/vehicle. I dinnae recall seeing anything about that having changed, and from expierence in the arena I have to believe it hasn't. I can be in a tank and get strafed by a DweebC and still be hearing pings up to 3 seconds after I've returned to the tower, accounting for every round that hit my tank. Same has happened with different airframes in the game.
So, I hear 1 pings from the twin .50 tail gun of a lanc. If the above is true I got hit with only ONE round. So where'd my damn wing go? There's deffinately something not right in this aspect of gameplay.
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Just another whine from people dumb enough to attack a bomber from dead six, and fly straight at a M-16, "it shoots back, its not fair!"
I fly bombers exclusivly, especally the b-26, and I have NEVER NEVER NEVERkilled a fighter with any of this 1 ping BS however i have had what SEEMED deaths from 1 ping kills from almost any kind of fighter I just not stupid enough to actually think that 1 shot killed me and come to the BB and cry in everyones beer. Sorry if I come across a bit harsh but this is RETARDED.
Oh BTW i have anywhere between 35-88 ping to AH sever consistantly and I still get the "one ping deaths" so just cause you hafe a good connection doesent mean it wont happen.
THE GUNS ARE THE SAME!
if yer attacking a bomber you are flying INTO the bullets at prolly over 250mph, the same is true with the M-16 or M-3, in contrast the bombers are flying AWAY from the fighters bullets. 50 cals are 50 cals, 303's are...crap but they are the same crap as the fighters have.
Learning a tactic for attacking theses things is essental for getting them.....and crying doesent count as a tactic.
[This message has been edited by TheWobble (edited 02-26-2001).]
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Just another whine from people dumb enough to attack a bomber from dead six, and fly straight at a M-16, "it shoots back, its not fair!"
I'm talking about smart attacks not the dweebish things *you* are talking about. Some 12,7mm pings from an M3 or a TBM gunner and the wing is gone? This is real BS. And it happens. I can live with it and still have fun but it remains BS.
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~sigh~, just when i thought this was done and over with. First off, cave im not calling you a liar, nor am i suggesting you dont know what you are talking about, nor that these occurances may have in "reality' happened to you. All im saying is that the issue of buff gun lethality being overmodelled is absolute bull.
i fly buff always 100 percent of the time...and without bragging, i am damn good at it. So you think that i would be good enough on the guns to get the "mysterious one ping kill " everytime. But alas, i have never, ever, shot down a fighter in any buff without pinging the guys in the same spot at least 10 times!. So until i clip some poor shmucks wing, im gonna call bs on this issue everytime.
"ILL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT!!!"
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Originally posted by TheWobble:
THE GUNS ARE THE SAME!
The .50's on the M16 are not the same as the .50's mounted on a bomber or fighter.
From http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004533.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/004533.html)
So I don't get quoted out of context, my answer on this subject in another thread had nothing to do with armor, it was an answer the question whether .50s on a half-track were the same as .50s on planes. My answer is that they were not. The vehicles use the M2HB and planes use the Aircraft M2. The difference I cited were that HB had a lower rate of fire and a 45" barrel vice a 36" barrel which gave it _slightly_ more muzzle velocity and therefore hitting power. The difference is about 100 fps ...."
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
MiG
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loser, TW, I've been there and done that in the buffs. I was a dedicated buff driver before the buffs even had guns (now let's talk about disparity (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ). Go check the buff scores for 214CaveJ in beta tours 1-3 and for CavemanJ in tours 1-3. Tour 3 is where I started really learning to fly fighters and get into JABO and stopped flying the buffs as much.
And yer right Mig, there is a slight difference between the M2s mounted on the kites and the Ma Duece on the vehicles, but I really dinnae think that extra 100ft/sec would cause this kind of disparity, especially in the 6x.50 on a -1D vs the 1x.50 on an M3 (see "What's wrong with this picture" thread).
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yup i agree with cavemanj 100% best thing is ta just leave the bommers alone especially the lancaster ;]
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woops ;[ is supposed to be (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Well earlier today I was in a 17 tooling along where i had no business being as usual. suddenly Fatty appears in a 109 he took one pas at me then came from below i started firing away and I think he hit me about 5 times (thats not counting pings i heard just a guess from experence) and my left wing was gone and i was headed down, he wasnt firing for more than 3 seconds (first tracer seen) and I was gone. I may have hit him about 8 times but prolly less. and Im a DAMN good shot in a bomber. he just used proper tactics and attacked from below like yer supposed to, and he won, as often happens.
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The 30mm didn't hurt either (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). Honestly I'd be suprised if I even hit you 5 times.
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Not the same? Really wobble, you want me to believe that a pony or P-47 HO me or shoot me at my 6 and hit me a LOT from d600 or more (or less) and they dont kill me unless they get a good stream into me.... and then I DIVE on a b17 from straight above it, where only TWO .50's can bear on me.. and it does kill me with a few pings at d1.2 (most of the times with the very first ping)?
The ONLY weapon I can attribute this is to a 20mm cannon.
Want a good test? Get a b17 and a b26 up. Have the B26 sit STRAIGHT on the B17's tail. Fire the 4 foward firing B26 guns (not the turrets). See how long it takes for the b17 to go down.
Now repeat, this time using the foward turret of the B26 only. The b17 goes down MIIIGHTY faster. 2 .50's vs 4 .50's.. hmm..
If you have the time, try a b26 vs b26 duel. Both planes manouevering, each plane with a gunner on the tail only, firing tail turret only. A few wildly aimed shots from the tail gun WILL kill a b26. Try that with 2 .50's on a fighter only. HAH.
I dont give a damn what anyone says, those buff guns = 20mm cannons in performance. Puah!
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 02-26-2001).]
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Wish I got one ping kills. I always have to work at it and get multiple hits when using machine guns or 20mm.