Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: camnite on November 05, 2008, 12:41:53 AM

Title: the best gun
Post by: camnite on November 05, 2008, 12:41:53 AM
What was the best gun of World War 2?
Conditions:
Rate of Fire
Reliability
Availibility
Firepower
Scare Factor

Would like to see what yall think.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Motherland on November 05, 2008, 12:54:19 AM
Close call between the Browning M2 .50 cal and the Hispano 20mm.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Delirium on November 05, 2008, 12:59:05 AM
I'd have to say the MG34 or MG42, you can still see the design incorporated into today's machine guns.

For length of service, I'd say the Browning, it is still being used today.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Curlew on November 05, 2008, 01:02:34 AM
mg42

(http://www.aboutww2militaria.com/photogal/mjk_mg42_3.jpg)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Motherland on November 05, 2008, 01:12:27 AM
Didn't even think about infantry weapons.
I would say the StG44 in that case.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: BaldEagl on November 05, 2008, 01:24:11 AM
Close call between the Browning M2 .50 cal and the Hispano 20mm.

For aircraft I agree.  Both are good.  It depends on how many .50's you have.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: camnite on November 05, 2008, 01:34:25 AM
Suppose you were to take one of each gun to a shooting range and fire them. BTW, forgot to add accuracy in the equation.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: A8TOOL on November 05, 2008, 01:37:19 AM
mg-42
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: oakranger on November 05, 2008, 01:40:43 AM
i would say mg-42. 
Brown bess 2nd model my second.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: A8TOOL on November 05, 2008, 01:55:23 AM
AK my 2nd
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: BoSoxFan on November 05, 2008, 02:18:40 AM
AK my 2nd


He said of WWII.




MG42 hands down.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Latrobe on November 05, 2008, 02:44:00 AM
1 - MG42 - Highest Rate of Fire of any MG in WWII (That's enough to terrify anyone!)
2 - Browning .50 cal MG - .50cal....'nough said
3 - STG44 - It led the way for every Assault Rifle afterwards, not to mention the Russian AK-47 was basically copied from it.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: uptown on November 05, 2008, 06:12:01 AM
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/BAR.jpg) I don't know if this was the best, but it's sure my favorite.

 BAR baby!  :aok
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Patches1 on November 05, 2008, 06:53:41 AM

The M-1 Garand Rifle...still used today in Match Competition.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: lowZX14 on November 05, 2008, 07:24:38 AM
The M-1 Garand Rifle...still used today in Match Competition.
:aok  and Semper Fi brother
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Saxman on November 05, 2008, 07:38:40 AM
There's too many different roles that needed to be filled to ask for what the "one" best gun of WWII was.

It's unfair to compare the MG42 or Browning .50cal to the Thompson Sub Machine Gun. They were no less prized and respected, but each type filled an entirely different roll.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: 633DH98 on November 05, 2008, 10:55:18 AM
P-08 for collectability.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Sunka on November 05, 2008, 11:38:55 AM
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/midnitemare/German%20WWII%20Military%20Train%20Project/The%20Kits/WWIIMilitaryTrainProject001.jpg)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Sloehand on November 05, 2008, 11:41:44 AM
I'd have to say the MG34 or MG42, you can still see the design incorporated into today's machine guns.

For length of service, I'd say the Browning, it is still being used today.

I'd have to say the Ma Deuce, as IT is still in use today and is far more destructive and at greater range.  This assume we really are including ground weapons and not just aircraft guns.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Anaxogoras on November 05, 2008, 11:53:48 AM
Close call between the Browning M2 .50 cal and the Hispano 20mm.

1 - MG42 - Highest Rate of Fire of any MG in WWII (That's enough to terrify anyone!)
2 - Browning .50 cal MG - .50cal....'nough said
3 - STG44 - It led the way for every Assault Rifle afterwards, not to mention the Russian AK-47 was basically copied from it.

According to Tony Williams, the Browning was only a mediocre aircraft weapon because of its weight, making it score poorly in the "efficiency" category.

The Hispano V gets my vote.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: lunatic1 on November 05, 2008, 12:03:47 PM
m-1 garand------b-a-r-------thompson sub machine gun :rock
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: camnite on November 05, 2008, 12:13:43 PM
I wouldnt say mg42 because the high rate of fire heated the barrel too quickly,which reduced reliability.
The stg44 was a good gun but wasnt available to many.

Good posts so far keep 'em comin.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 05, 2008, 12:29:15 PM
1 - MG42 - Highest Rate of Fire of any MG in WWII (That's enough to terrify anyone!)
2 - Browning .50 cal MG - .50cal....'nough said
3 - STG44 - It led the way for every Assault Rifle afterwards, not to mention the Russian AK-47 was basically copied from it.

According to Mikhail Kalashnikov, he denied that the AK-47 was based on the StG44.


ack-ack
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Furball on November 05, 2008, 12:42:41 PM
Infantry - MG42
Airborne - Hispano Mk V.  Plenty of guns better than the 50cal imo.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Race on November 05, 2008, 01:22:02 PM
According to Mikhail Kalashnikov, he denied that the AK-47 was based on the StG44.


ack-ack

Why wouldnt he? He would be a fool to acknowledge that with out real evidence to speak of laid before him.



At any rate in this game its hard to argue with any of the quad 20mm setups. The combination of ballistics, rate of fire, and accuracy are outstanding.

Race
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: A8TOOL on November 05, 2008, 01:59:12 PM
Ok, so luckily the  AK was not in WWII but it's still a heck of a weapon. Tanks running over it, mud , sand and heat do not bother it much. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNAohtjG14c
YouTube - Burning AK47 -
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Babalonian on November 05, 2008, 02:23:28 PM
Since everyone seems ot be going with the real heavys, without considering too much manuverability and weight, my preferences would be the MG34 > Brun > BAR... and I guess the MG42 is in there soemwhere, but only if I get a volunteer to help me lug and operate it :P

But the "one gun" I'd choose over them all of WWII, considering everything, the STG44 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stg44 ), the germans knew how to make their guns.  The STG44 is the grandfather of modern assault rifles.

(http://mqsto.com/photo/albums/userpics/11442/stg44.jpg)
(http://www.efour4ever.com/sturmgehwehr.jpg)
(http://www.mouseguns.com/ak47info/stg44sol.jpg)
(http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/pics/stg44-sturmgewehr.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/GlacialSapphire/scope.jpg)
(http://www.gewehr43.com/Stg-44__G-43_.jpg)
(G43 in the background on the last one... wouldn't mind one of those either)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: morfiend on November 05, 2008, 02:27:46 PM
 Tony Williams site states that the Russian 20mm,not sure which 1,is the best aerial weapon.

 Factoring weight,Mv and he/kenetic power.

 But everyone knows,Patton's ivory handled colts won the war.... :)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Saxman on November 05, 2008, 03:11:37 PM
Since everyone seems ot be going with the real heavys, without considering too much manuverability and weight, my preferences would be the MG34 > Brun > BAR... and I guess the MG42 is in there soemwhere, but only if I get a volunteer to help me lug and operate it :P

But the "one gun" I'd choose over them all of WWII, considering everything, the STG44 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stg44 ), the germans knew how to make their guns.  The STG44 is the grandfather of modern assault rifles.

(http://mqsto.com/photo/albums/userpics/11442/stg44.jpg)

So effective it even founds its way to Hoth!

(http://www.partsofsw.com/images/hothrifle.jpg)

:D
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Furball on November 05, 2008, 03:57:18 PM
What was the best gun of World War 2?
Conditions:
Rate of Fire
Reliability
Availibility
Firepower
Scare Factor

Would like to see what yall think.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Furball on November 05, 2008, 04:01:09 PM
According to Tony Williams, the Browning was only a mediocre aircraft weapon because of its weight, making it score poorly in the "efficiency" category.

The Hispano V gets my vote.


Here you go, from the above link:

Quote
The American Browning .50 M2 is an undistinguished performer, particularly when compared with its closest competitor, the 12.7 mm Berezin. The relatively small incendiary content in the .50 API (0.9 g instead of 2 g) gives the Soviet round a flying start, which it adds to by its usefully higher rate of fire, then finishes off in style by being lighter as well, and thereby almost twice as efficient overall. The Browning also makes an interesting comparison with the Japanese Ho-5, which was basically the M2 slightly scaled up to take 20 mm cartridges.

It may appear that this low score of the .50 M2 is in disagreement with the satisfactory experience the USAAF had with this weapon. The answer to this apparent contradiction is that the .50 M2 proved very effective against fighters and (not too sturdy) bombers, if installed in sufficient numbers. Six or eight guns were specified as standard armament, resulting in a destructive power total of 360 or 480, at the cost of a rather high installed weight. Most American fighters were sufficiently powerful to have a high performance despite this weight penalty. Incidentally, the mediocre efficiency score of the .50 M2 is not only an effect of the low chemical content of its projectiles. Even if only the kinetic energy were considered, the efficiency of this gun would remain inferior to that of the UBS, B-20, ShVAK or Hispano, although better than that of the MK 108 or MG-FFM. To sum up, the preferred US armament fit was effective for its purpose, but not very efficient by comparison with cannon.

A further validation of the calculations is provided by the outcome of tests by the USN, which stated that the 20 mm Hispano was about three times as destructive as the .50 M2. In the above table, the ratio between their scores is 3.3.

The outstanding performer is clearly the German 30 mm MK 108, which achieves ten times the destructiveness of the .50 M2 for only twice the weight.

To return to the obviously controversial question of the relatively poor performance of the .50 Browning: as has already been stated in this study, "the preferred US armament fit [of six or eight .50 HMGs] was effective for its purpose, but not very efficient by comparison with cannon". It is worth pointing out that for as long as the battery of .50s proved adequate against the targets usually encountered, there were strong arguments in favour of retaining the weapon, as the standardisation of production, supply, maintenance and training provided great logistic benefits by comparison with the plethora of different weapons fielded by the Germans and Japanese in particular. Of course, the USA did make some use of the 20mm Hispano cannon, but this was severely limited by production problems: that is another story, told elsewhere on this website!
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: titanic3 on November 05, 2008, 04:51:32 PM
K-98 Mauser
'03 Springfield (w/ a scope of course)
Moisin Nagant (I'm pretty sure I spelled it wrong)

.50 Cal
Mg42

Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Furball on November 05, 2008, 04:55:10 PM
MP44?
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: uptown on November 05, 2008, 05:02:59 PM
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/stupid_gun.jpg)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Spikes on November 05, 2008, 05:10:09 PM
I dunno if it's the best, but BAR.

And the Sten is sweet, pretty weird lookin though :)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: ColKLink on November 06, 2008, 04:38:06 AM
.50 CAL is still in service today for very good reason, from personal experience w/ a crew served .50 cal,...they are wonderful when spiting lead down range, but ours seemed to jam much more than I care to admit. Unjamming a .50 cal round, is a bit dangerous. I hated that part of it.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: BoSoxFan on November 06, 2008, 07:15:23 AM
I wouldnt say mg42 because the high rate of fire heated the barrel too quickly,which reduced reliability.
The stg44 was a good gun but wasnt available to many.

Good posts so far keep 'em comin.


Yes the barrel did heat up when the trigger was just held down but with short bursts is didn't as much. Even when it did the squad had extra barrels that could be changed out in a matter of seconds.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Anaxogoras on November 06, 2008, 08:59:34 AM
Thanks for the expansion furball.  Funny that we both voted Hispano V after reading that article and data. ;)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: lowZX14 on November 06, 2008, 09:07:35 AM
.50 CAL is still in service today for very good reason, from personal experience w/ a crew served .50 cal,...they are wonderful when spiting lead down range, but ours seemed to jam much more than I care to admit. Unjamming a .50 cal round, is a bit dangerous. I hated that part of it.
Head down while opening cover, round must be extracted within 5 seconds after a 5 second waiting period for cook off, if it cannot be extracted within 10 seconds, wait 5 minutes   :aok
At least that's what I was taught.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: PFactorDave on November 06, 2008, 09:55:38 AM

Moisin Nagant (I'm pretty sure I spelled it wrong)



Mosin Nagant

I picked up one at a gun show for about $50 a few years ago.  It was in good shape, smeared with cosmolene.  I cleaned it up and shoot it once in awhile.  Very accurate rifle, kicks like a mule though.  It has a steel butt plate on the stock.  When I bought mine it had a regular round headed screw holding the butt plate on the stock, instead of an inset screw.  Until I replaced the screw with one that sits flush with the metal plate, every time I fired the rifle it would leave a small round slotted screw shaped bruise on my shoulder.  Much more comfortable to shoot now that that old screw is gone.  :aok
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: BigPlay on November 06, 2008, 10:41:32 AM
mg42

(http://www.aboutww2militaria.com/photogal/mjk_mg42_3.jpg)


without question !
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Furball on November 06, 2008, 12:39:48 PM
Thanks for the expansion furball.  Funny that we both voted Hispano V after reading that article and data. ;)

Yup!  I would have said Mk108 if it wasn't for the muzzle velocity.  I have had a close look at a 108 before and it is an absolutely genius bit of engineering.  So small for something so powerful - really impressive.

(http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/8217/fgun/mk108-b.jpg)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: RumbleB on November 06, 2008, 02:50:09 PM
Yup!  I would have said Mk108 if it wasn't for the muzzle velocity.  I have had a close look at a 108 before and it is an absolutely genius bit of engineering.  So small for something so powerful - really impressive.

(http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/8217/fgun/mk108-b.jpg)

if I ever lose an arm that would be quite the replacement :D
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: 999000 on November 06, 2008, 05:25:15 PM
I thought Rachel Ward had great guns!...................
<S>999000
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: MachNum on November 06, 2008, 05:38:29 PM
Any "what's the best" thread is always amusing  :lol

Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Curlew on November 06, 2008, 06:09:47 PM
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/Gau8a_a.jpg)

The gun off the A10  :rock :rock :rock
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: morfiend on November 07, 2008, 03:19:00 PM
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/Gau8a_a.jpg)

The gun off the A10  :rock :rock :rock


 Ya baby,30 mm's of luv...
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: RipChord929 on November 07, 2008, 04:18:44 PM
German troops had a great fear of the 50cal..
They had no weapon that compared to it on
the battlefield.. US troops had it mounted on
almost every conceivable vehicle, and even Inf
companies had a few in their weapons platoon...
In US units overall, it was EVERYWHERE...

That weapon could outrange any rifle caliber mg, so
it was perfect for "recon by fire" of anything looking
remotely suspicious.. Quickly prepared fighting
positions are no match for it... It'll shoot thru 5ft
of dirt and kill ya in your hole.. Gotta fear that!!!

As far as an aircraft weapon, opinions vary, and all
with good reason.. For me, I compare the 6x50 nose
guns on an A20, to the cannons on Skeeter...
Its the classic trade off, explosive ammo, and more drop,
vs, volume of fire, and flatter trajectory...
Blah Blah.. LOL!!!

I like the 50's better... Just my pref...

Ya really need to pick a category, comparing 1911/45,
FG42, and Pac43, is just silly... All are worthy in their
own niche...

RC
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: BigPlay on November 07, 2008, 05:14:11 PM
The M-1 Garand Rifle...still used today in Match Competition.


It's a good rifle but no where near the top of the best gun list.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: glock89 on November 07, 2008, 05:22:59 PM
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/Gau8a_a.jpg)

The gun off the A10  :rock :rock :rock
Isn't that a little big for you?
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: AApache on November 07, 2008, 06:10:16 PM
Have to agree with Uptown on that one !! The Browning Automatic Reifle for sure.  bonny and Clyde made that thiong famous. It's a freeking meat grinder :aok
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: AApache on November 07, 2008, 06:31:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WOzqKRy0oM
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: AApache on November 07, 2008, 06:34:40 PM
Guess the best gun of all would have to be the this one... the biggest on of all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlpfwfhI8uY
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: AApache on November 07, 2008, 06:42:22 PM
Here's a bueut... it's the Type K-5 E german Rail gun of WW II

. watch these rounds hit       800 Millimeter round





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf2_eX6q7pg
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: clerick on November 07, 2008, 06:43:21 PM
These!   :devil

(http://www.historylink101.com/ww2photo/p-38-lighting-nose-guns.jpg)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: glock89 on November 07, 2008, 06:44:41 PM
Mine. (http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/heer/selfpropelledgun/sturmtiger/sturmtiger-05.jpg)
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Masherbrum on November 07, 2008, 07:14:09 PM
mg42

(http://www.aboutww2militaria.com/photogal/mjk_mg42_3.jpg)

WITHOUT question the MG42.   
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Roundeye on November 07, 2008, 07:22:50 PM
.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: PFactorDave on November 07, 2008, 07:51:25 PM
How about the M1911 Colt .45.  As far as I know, it was in service with the US army for about 3/4s of a century or so.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: BigPlay on November 25, 2008, 11:44:55 AM
German troops had a great fear of the 50cal..
They had no weapon that compared to it on
the battlefield.. US troops had it mounted on
almost every conceivable vehicle, and even Inf
companies had a few in their weapons platoon...
In US units overall, it was EVERYWHERE...

That weapon could outrange any rifle caliber mg, so
it was perfect for "recon by fire" of anything looking
remotely suspicious.. Quickly prepared fighting
positions are no match for it... It'll shoot thru 5ft
of dirt and kill ya in your hole.. Gotta fear that!!!






The problem with the 50cal infantry weapon was it was very heavy and not used at squad level .The MG 42 was. The ammo for the 50's was also very heavy and bulky. Unless set up at a defensive position or coming under fire from a vehicle that carried a 50cal Mg, Germans didn't see the weapon like the allies saw the MG42.  As far as aircraft weapons are concerned try killing B-17's with 50's without getting killed. Yeh guys do it but not many. I'd rather have a 110G for buff killing. As far as fighters go most killing is done 600 or inside of that so the drop from cannons I feel are not that big a deal. I'd rather have the hitting power of cannons than 50's.

 That's my 2 cents

Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Rebel on November 25, 2008, 12:21:44 PM
WITHOUT question the MG42.   

Yup.  Any weapon that causes the department of the Army to release a training film specifically for it is doing it's job very very well.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Steve on November 25, 2008, 12:46:59 PM
IMHO  MG42 and M1 Garand.


Quote
try killing B-17's with 50's without getting killed

easy peezey lemon squeezy.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Shuffler on November 25, 2008, 12:51:07 PM
I use 50s to kill bombers almost exclusively. I save the canon for the harder planes.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: F111 on November 25, 2008, 01:10:53 PM
I use 50s to kill bombers almost exclusively. I save the canon for the harder planes.
:lol
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: BigPlay on November 25, 2008, 02:02:21 PM
I use 50s to kill bombers almost exclusively. I save the canon for the harder planes.

That cause the plane you fly only has one cannon. What's harder than taking down a B-17?
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Shuffler on November 25, 2008, 02:39:24 PM
That cause the plane you fly only has one cannon. What's harder than taking down a B-17?

A well armored  fighter like a 190 or jug. Of the 150 rounds of canon I carry i often come home with over 100. I can put a stream of 50s into a plane with the 38.
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: BigPlay on November 25, 2008, 03:28:13 PM
A well armored  fighter like a 190 or jug. Of the 150 rounds of canon I carry i often come home with over 100. I can put a stream of 50s into a plane with the 38.

Still you have to admit that a B-17 takes a lot more punishment than a 190 or P-47
Title: Re: the best gun
Post by: Shuffler on November 25, 2008, 03:34:14 PM
Well it can seem that way sometimes. The wing lets go fairly easy. The are alot of tracers off a 17 if that is what your getting at. I get a vented canopy alot of the time. Not many 17s being used these days.