Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CavemanJ on March 05, 2001, 09:58:00 PM
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Two pilots, fighter ranks only (I have a screenshot of the stats, just not uploaded):
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Kills 43, Assists 4, Hit% 0.159303, Points 5314.723300
Kills/(Deaths+1) = 0.924700
Kills/Sorties = 0.716700
Kills/Time = 0.001900
Sorties 60
Landed 10
Discos 1
Bails 7
Ditches 4
Captures 0
Deaths 38
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Kills 71, Assists 21, Hit% 0.038000, Points 5291.383900
Kills/(Deaths+1) = 2.629600
Kills/Sorties = 1.392200
Kills/Time = 0.001100
Sorties 51
Landed 21
Discos 4
Bails 0
Ditches 2
Captures 1
Deaths 23
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One of them is ranked in the low 130s, the other is mid 50s. You guess which is which.
Point difference is 23.3394, Hit% difference is 0.12[something], both in favor of 'pilot 1'. Kills, assists, K/D, K/Sortie are all for 'pilot 2'. I'm not sure how Kill/Time works, so I dinnae who's ahead there.
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If I had to guess which was ranked 50 i would go with the first one on your list. Though personally I think the second pilot has better stats (K/D, K/S, and landed sorties), the game scoring system somehow favors other factors. Which "other factors" they are I do not know. That each of the "scoring catagories" is "weighted" might give rise to a method of figuring out how each ranking is arrived at. What those weighted factors are I don't know either.
Anyway.....which is it ??
RAS
[This message has been edited by RAS (edited 03-05-2001).]
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I dont give a sh*t about my 'ranking' it rewards those who fly a different style than i do as well as being a well-rounded player, vehicles, planes, ships, bombers.
I only care about sorties/landings and kill/death in the 'fighter' role
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 03-06-2001).]
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While player # 2 has generaly better stats player #1 has extrordinary accuracy. That probably moves him above the other pilot who sprays and prays more.
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i don't give a sh** at score as soon as i've ranked in the 30
lol (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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nono
56th (FG) FIREBIRDS RAF
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The Hit% makes all the difference there. With the new scoring system we currently can't see how we rank in each skill (hopefully it will come sometime), but looking at stats in tour 11, a hit% of 15.93% would rank you as #9 in that catagory, while 3.80% gives you a rank of ~640.
2.63 is ~#30 in K/D, while 0.92 is ~#330
1.29 is ~#65 in K/S, while 0.72 is ~#300
0.0019 is ~#34 in K/T, while 0.0011 is ~#215
Adding those give for person 1:
9+330+300+34 = 673 rank points,
while person two gets:
640+30+65+215 = 950 rank points.
Person 1 is clearly better ranked than Person 2. Even if person two was #1 in all but Hit% he would only just pass person 1.
To achieve ok rank you don't need to master anything, just don't suck at anything
Person #2 is either an extreme spray 'n pray person (maybe C-Hog? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)) or he just strafe alot of buildings while on fighter sorties and this makes his hit% lousy.
Person one's K/D and K/S is not great, but 0.92 and 0.71 is actually about the average score in arena.
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 03-06-2001).]
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You mean there is a score? And we are ranked? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Spat, nono, why did you even bother replying? You're doing nothing but cluttering a thread with a serious question.
I'm not overly worried about score, but I've started seriously trying to fly to live and I'm use K/D and K/S along with landed sorties to judge how I'm doing with that goal.
Snef thanks for that breakdown. Guess the wieght of Hit% is why they added the Fighter/Attack scoring options.
But exactly what does Kills/Time show?
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Cave..
For rank you need to use all assets. Just doing 3 or 4 bomber sorties can greatly increase your rank, add a few field captures and you can jump from 350th to 30 in no time.
Wasting Ord and ammo can hurt but it is easily made up in other aspects of the Sim.
Dog out...
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Snefens hit the nail on the head. Being a deadly marksman is a way to move right up the ranks.
Also, the difference between .0019 k/t and .0011 is pretty big.
I have a pretty decent k/s and k/d this tour... though not as good as last tour. My hit % is much better... and my fighter rank is higher as a result.
AKDejaVu
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Just FYI, I normally shoot about 4%.
I fly the Jug, and I have a twisty stick. One of the reasons I like the Jug is because I can't shoot for beans. The rudders are incredibly bouncy with the twisty stick, and it hurts my gunnery.
I don't strafe anything, and rarely do anything other than straight A2A in my Jug. Part of the reason I shoot so bad in the Jug is because I CAN! The Jug with the overload ammo condition has so much ammo that it's silly for me to be miserly with it, even if I could and still get kills. I set up deflection shots where I hold the trigger down and let him fly through the stream regularly, and I mostly miss. I still have enough ammo, and hit enough times, that it's worth doing.
I might be upset about it if I ever looked at my "rank". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) I normally only look at my kills versus killed by for the P47 just to see how I'm doing, and what planes I have trouble with. I'll occasionally look at my K/D, but I do too many things like auger or alt-F4 for that to mean anything. I wish you could clear your stats like you could in WB, that was useful.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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The way the stats are ranked are wrong imo.
A good k/d should be first in importance.
K/sortie weighed slightly less.
Landed kills next. We do not have this category it would be nice.
Hit% then kills per time.
Points well im not sure how they are given or what thing are worth. So thats last imo.
I think the current system is set up as a balance between the k/d fliers and the Quake fliers. It seems if you fly alot and are amass a large number of kills/points you are ranked higher than if you fly a lower number of missions and fly them better.
Oh yes you must drop bombs if you just acm like i do you get killed in the rankings.
EYE
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"But exactly what does Kills/Time show?"
It simply shows Kills/flight time (in seconds).
ex:
5 kills in 1 hour of fligt gives a K/T of:
5/(1*60*60) = 0.00139
, so higher is better.
[This message has been edited by LLv34_Snefens (edited 03-06-2001).]
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My fighter stats:
vs. Enemies Kills / Deaths + 1
10.0000
Kills / Sorties
1.4286
Kills / Time online
0.0018
Hit percentage
0.1047
Points 2977.7623
Time 01:32:24
Rank 21
It's taken nearly a week for the stats to fall to 21. The seven fighter sorties I made were on the first day of the tour, haven't flown a fighter sortie since. At that time I was ranked 3, and it's slowly fell, so points probably have a pretty decent impact on rank but not near as much as the other criteria, given how slow it's fallen.
go figure.
- Bessy
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Are we talking fighter rank alone here or overall rank?
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Are we talking fighter rank alone here or overall rank?
-- Todd/DMF
I started this thread talking ONLY about FIGHTER rank. I've no idea why people are mentioning overall rank.
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Originally posted by CavemanJ:
I started this thread talking ONLY about FIGHTER rank. I've no idea why people are mentioning overall rank.
In that case, I'd look at four key stats as a measure of ranking here. Namely, Kill to Death ratio, Kill to Sortie ratio, Time per Kill, and Hit Percentage.
If we weight them all equally, you'll see that Pilot 1 has a hit percentage that is five times greater than that of Pilot 2. Pilot 1 also kills planes at a rate nearly twice as fast as Pilot 2.
On the other hand, Pilot 2 has a K/D ratio roughly 2.5 times greater than Pilot 1, and a Kills per Sortie ratio about 1.5 times greater. If we weight all categories equally, Pilot 1 is the better overall pilot despite the lower kill ratios.
-- Todd/DMF
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The only *time* I am interested in is the period between squeezing the trigger and scoring a kill. Time to alt and time to fight mean nothing. How does either gauge pilot skill? Poorly, in my estimation.
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***-*-
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The only *time* I am interested in is the period between squeezing the trigger and scoring a kill. Time to alt and time to fight mean nothing. How does either gauge pilot skill? Poorly, in my estimation.
Agreed Voss... particularly hard to compare for example, a US pilot who logs on at night to find 180 online with an Asia/Pacific pilot who logs on during HIS evenings and finds 15-20 online.
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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
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Buerling
"I think the current system is set up as a balance between the k/d fliers and the Quake fliers. It seems if you fly alot and are amass a large number of kills/points you are ranked higher than if you fly a lower number of missions and fly them better.
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by better you mean the mission you should be accomplishing is accompished right? not that you got some crosses on your plane and kept your skin whole. If a mission to strafe a dozen osties in ponys comes up your there right? Thats how militaries rate success.
I aggree that it is hard to find a value in time per kill. what does that have to do with anything? Its like a stat that rated Alt per kill or time of kill. who cares?
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Originally posted by Voss:
The only *time* I am interested in is the period between squeezing the trigger and scoring a kill. Time to alt and time to fight mean nothing. How does either gauge pilot skill? Poorly, in my estimation.
If all of these categories are weighted equally, then it provides a balance between furball-style skills (quick to the fight, quick to kill, plenty of kills per hour regardless of deaths) and flying to live (K/D and K/S ratios). Hit percentage can be shared by either type of pilot, I'd think.
That means, of equally weighted categories, those who fly to live have TWO categories that favor them, one that's neutral, and one that doesn't favor them. Furballers have only one category that favors their flying style. The advantage would seem to be with those who fly to live anyway.
Pilot 2 should really brush up on gunnery skills.
-- Todd/DMF
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying:
Pilot 2 should really brush up on gunnery skills.
-- Todd/DMF
Actually, pilot 2 should really learn to keep his guns off ack when perched over an enemy base on a fighter sortie, and noone else will go in to get the last remaining few.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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The kills/time is necessary to promote engagements. Take it away and everyone is flying the fastest plane looking only for easy kills... running away from anything that isn't. I can understand why no on-line fighter sim wants to promote that.
Remember, there is no sense of mission in this game other than player self-induced. There is nothing requiring a player to engage another player. Thus, the kills/time. Engagement is encouraged.
Some may feel it is historically inaccurate to do this, and they'd be right. What they may be neglecting is the fact that fighters went up with a mission... escort... jabo... fighter sweep... whatever. That means they often had to engage in less than ideal conditions.... and not always with numbers. AH gives you the ability to pick and chose your fights.
Of all the stats, K/T is the one I ignore. But I do understand the need for it. I fly to live. I try to shoot when I'm pretty sure I can connect. Of course, if you flew the Yak, you would too. Lephturn was right on about spraying and praying "Because he can afford to" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
When you start to weight the statistics in a particular manner, you start to skew the way people fly. Furballers have a lower K/D than the safety flyers... about even in the K/S... about even in gunnery % and higher in k/t. Tell me how this isn't evening out?
I do know that the people that traditionally have lead the fighter rankings weren't the pure furballers. They were the people that liked to come in with a distinct advantage and had the ability to hit what they were aiming at... and more than a tad bit of ACM skills thrown in on top of that.
AKDejaVu
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I disagree Deja... do u think if K/time were removed it would make any difference whatsoever?
I don't..
SKurj
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Anyone else seen this before " You flyxxx Amount of time xxx amount of missions. You suck get a life lamer."
This is one of the worst ways i have seen to disparage a opponant. I would like to see no k/time just to get rid of these arguements. K/time or time spent is my buisness no one elses.How much you play should not be able to be seen by others.
EYE
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I disagree Deja... do u think if K/time were removed it would make any difference whatsoever?
If it affected ranking, yes it would. As it is, a number of people ignore it. Remove it and watch rankings change then see what happens. Or more to the point... listen to what happens.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
If it affected ranking, yes it would. As it is, a number of people ignore it. Remove it and watch rankings change then see what happens. Or more to the point... listen to what happens.
AKDejaVu
Aye DJ, the Quake-bird pilots would really start howling then (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I'm wondering if only points, Hit%, K/D, K/S, and K/T are factored in the ranking. The only place the other pilot has me is Hit%, points (and only by 24), and K/T. He has more sorties than I do, but I've got twice as many landed. I've also got not quite double the kills and 5x the assists.
Or are kills and assists just bundled together in points, and that's where they count in the ranking? If so, are the points scored by total damage done? Every time I've come across 'pilot 1' he's been in a cannon bird (NOT an n1k or -1C though). Of course his 20mm are going to do more damage than the 4x.50 on my pony, which would lead to more points if that's how they're scored.
Which leads a major skewing of the system IMO.
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Cavey, I think the main difference would be the ammount of people separating you two in each category. It doesn't matter that you are close to him if 500 people are even closer. This is most prevelant in K/T where the difference between .0011 and .0014 could be 500 people. However, the difference between gunnery accuracy of .13% and .09% might only be 100 people. Relatively close in both stats, but the outcome will be in his favor.
I think more of the problem comes in the way things are displayed. It can be quite misleading.
That said, the best pilots, no matter how you score them are going to be the ones that vulch exclusively. No matter how you track the results, it will never be indicative of the method.
Maybe we just need more <S> GREAT FLYING! in the arena.
AKDejaVu
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May I just say that the thing that really hooked me on AH is the advanced strategy you get to be involved in. With WB it became monotonous to either go on monster base capturing raids where you could easily overwhelm defenders, or simpy dogfight all afternoon in drag and bag fests.
I think the kill/time stat is a way to allow someone who CANNOT play that often to still rank with those who stay on all day long racking up HUGE point totals. It also rewards those who are being very effective.
And no one has mentioned the poor faithful souls who die repeatedly defending a base against overwhelming odds. Where is the point benefit in that? THESE guys are the real pilots IMO.
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Spivey, buffmeister of the Flying Tigers
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You guys keep forgetting about that other stat used in fighter rankings...points. With some exceptions, the more you fly, the more points you will have. Which makes fighter rankings pretty useless in a real evalution of skill.
bowser
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Yup, score is really working.
It's based on kills, assist AND whether u land em or not.
We could change all k/* stats to score/*.
score/time
score/sorties
k/d is still valid though as well as hit %.
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k/d isnt valid - i get vulched alot trying to save a base
kills/time isnt valid -- when you vulch alot k/t goes up
accuracy isnt valid -- i usuaally dont sleect attack unless im in a mission and it specifically asks me, but if im fying a fighter sortie and someone needs a hanger down ill help strafe it.
see what i mean? no stats mean anything.
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Go back and carefully read what Snefens said way above.
He is exactly right.
His quote:
Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens:
To achieve ok rank you don't need to master anything, just don't suck at anything
is my motto (as far as score goes)
Take it from the most over-ranked guy in this game, not sucking at even 1 thing is what ranking well in this system is all about.
Even though most of us feel that a good K/D is the true sign of a good sim-pilot, the computer doesn't care. It weights all 5 categories equally.
eskimo
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Personally I never gave a dang about my rank, score or any of it cause i just wanted to log on few times a week and fly. I usually noticed the guy who is online the longest is ranked higher though for bomber ranks anyway.
I HAVE to look now though since I have to keep track of perk points and I want to try and figure out what gives me the most perk points so i can fly the plane I want to fly.
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Chuck Perry
"Sky61"