Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 19kilo10(ironnite) on November 18, 2008, 09:10:01 PM
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Just wanting some thoughts on wich aspect of AH is more difficult or satisfying.....air combat or GV combat.
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Just wanting some thoughts on wich aspect of AH is more difficult or satisfying.....air combat or GV combat.
satisfying? whatever floats YOUR boat.
difficult? Air Combat. 3dimensional, more complex, more variables.
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Good points........both are quite different. I havent really decided wich I like best. Been in some really great fur-balls....AND some really great tank fights........
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Good points........both are quite different. I havent really decided wich I like best. Been in some really great fur-balls....AND some really great tank fights........
I don't think there is any need to decide ;)
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My vote is for GV's being more difficult. It is harder to see or hear a hiding tank than a plane diving on your head. The range is longer and the field of view is waaayyy smaller. A plane at 1 mile is no threat, but a tank at the same range with it's engine off waiting for you to roll into the base, chances are, your dead.
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chicks dig pilots bro :D
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Flying is harder. GVing is more frustrating.
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Think about that dave...now you see why girls like pilots? :lol
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Think about that dave...now you see why girls like pilots? :lol
:rofl
Makes a lot of sense to me.
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Unless you're this guy I'd say planes...
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/pugglekicker_21/Mr_T_BA.jpg)
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Unless you're this guy I'd say planes...
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/pugglekicker_21/Mr_T_BA.jpg)
:rofl
Now that made me laugh. God that was the worst show ever, but it was so great at the time.
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a gunfight in every show and no one ever got hit. :lol
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a gunfight in every show and no one ever got hit. :lol
Ya, for such elite soldiers of fortune, their aim sure did suck.
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Ya, for such elite soldiers of fortune, their aim sure did suck.
Well, they were firing AK47's, that explains a lot :D :D
BTW, they did manage to shoot the tires of a driving car, flipping it over every time, so the aim wasn't so bad, unless they were shooting at the guys head...
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Well, they were firing AK47's, that explains a lot :D :D
BTW, they did manage to shoot the tires of a driving car, flipping it over every time, so the aim wasn't so bad, unless they were shooting at the guys head...
someone is not remembering the A-team very well, cant recall them ever firing AK-47s, although the mini-14s,(and a few M-16s) was very prevalent through out the show.
on a side note the two AKs i had where more then sufficiently accurate.
and they are the greatest assault rifle ever made.
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What do you want, it's been 20 years :D :D
I as just making a joke, sorry for that ;)
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What do you want, it's been 20 years :D :D
I as just making a joke, sorry for that ;)
Americans are serious about their guns, it's like joking about someones mom! :lol
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Americans are serious about their guns, it's like joking about someones mom! :lol
I love my guns and the AK is not the best assault rifle ever made. That's just an opinion and I think its so wrong. :D
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Ever encountered Rondar? Maybe it's because I'm weak in tanks, but when he's around it strikes terror into my heart! :lol
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GV's don't explode when you run them into trees. Thats a good reason why flying is harder :devil
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GV's don't explode when you run them into trees. Thats a good reason why flying is harder :devil
Yes but I hate it when a little tree stops your heavy tiger. Thats ridiculous...
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GV's could be interesting after more attention to the details and modeling would be considered by HTC.
Now all the tanks feel the same with different "UI".
Also i all most shed a tear after finding out, that German tanks did not have Zeiss optics. :devil
Does anyone else find tank turrets "weightless" ? feels kinda silly in my books.
Anyway, tanking sounds like fun, haven't had time to really learn the tricks there.
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Well, they were firing AK47's, that explains a lot :D :D
BTW, they did manage to shoot the tires of a driving car, flipping it over every time, so the aim wasn't so bad, unless they were shooting at the guys head...
Rubber bullits
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I have terrible trouble with GVs I attribute it mostly to the fact that I dont set all my detail settings to low, edit my sounds so that my engine sound so its silent on my end, while others is very loud.
:noid
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2d vs. 3d.
'nuff said
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I vote for GVing being more difficult. No enemy icon makes GV's more difficult to locate, slow tank main gun reload rate makes each shot critcal , must be in proper GV ie: tank to have fighting chance against another tank , and if you up against a good tanker you best be able to hit on first shot. Anyone can spawn camp but it takes experience and skill to hit first shot while on the move. Can be very fun if you can stay on the move and dodge their rounds while making accurate shots. My most enjoyable moments come from blasting a plane to shreds with panzer main gun:). Those that never try ground warfare are missing out on a lot of fun. I spend equal time both in the air and in GVs -both
have their challenges but after 10 years playing flight sims without having any ground to ground, ground to air, or air to ground (versus GVs) they hit the mark and made Aces High the most versitle WWII
sim I have ever played.
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tank fighting is an art learned just as the air fight, but don't missunderstand, some darn good gv drivers can kill you in the air, just depends on your personal preference,
i like to think i am not bad at tanks, but i also can hold my own in 1v1 airfights on most days, the difference is the 2 or 3v1 dogfights were those like me can't keep up!
also my gunnery is weak in aircraft!!
but then again i always wanted too be a fighter pilot,(was too tall) but was stuck just flying civilian aircraft, yet spent many hours on the ground tanking with the army, and understand the tactics of ground warfare, so for me it was natural!!
the ability to game the game is the most important part of either aspect of this game just like all simulations!!
as well as this game tries, it will still have that weakness, and it will still be exploited :noid
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If you absolutely suck at flying, you'll say a gv is to make yourself feel like you do something well in the game. But there simply is no comparison between the two in the dynamics involved. One is far more complex than the other. Complex is more difficult than simple.
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I have got several jeeps in a flat spin before though :D
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Yes but I hate it when a little tree stops your heavy tiger. Thats ridiculous...
SHEEP stop tanks!!!!! Thats accurate.......
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SHEEP stop tanks!!!!! Thats accurate.......
yea but not for the rite reasons :huh so wrong in so many ways
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If you absolutely suck at flying, you'll say a gv is to make yourself feel like you do something well in the game. But there simply is no comparison between the two in the dynamics involved. One is far more complex than the other. Complex is more difficult than simple.
Funny, I'm more proficient in an airplane than in a tank. I wish that being decent at flying made me decent at tanking, but that just isn't so! Still, I see your point, and acknowledge that what I express here is not a rebuttal, it's just an observation.
For my part, what makes tanking difficult is not being able to see the enemy. When you do glimpse the enemy, if he was craftier and saw you first, you're dead.
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FORUM!.....most definatley.
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for me its GV'n, Im terrible in any tank on tank sort of battle
My SA and Gunnery may be the worst in the game in tank.
Im ok with Wirble's and Osti's though agaist planes
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I know that planes technically should be harder, :lol but I cant GV to save my life.
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I find GVs frustrating mainly due to no range finder and alot of guess work. That and I just dont find it alot of fun. Also, GV to me is like dealing with pilots who only bounce. Surprise, bang, dead. Not alot of fun there.
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Also, GV to me is like dealing with pilots who only bounce. Surprise, bang, dead. Not alot of fun there.
Exactly how I feel about it. At least as far as tanks are concerned. Wirbles and Osti's aren't so bad, simply because most of the time you can stay back enough that you don't get popped by the invisible tank and still have fun taking shots at aircraft.
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If you absolutely suck at flying, you'll say a gv is to make yourself feel like you do something well in the game. But there simply is no comparison between the two in the dynamics involved. One is far more complex than the other.
If you absolutely suck at GVing, you'll say a plane is to make.......... LOL
Some can chew gum and walk at the same time..not that complex. 2D vs 3D..how about 1D-one dimensional:) They designed the game with all aspects of mechanized WWII combat so thats how I play it. I can do both but I guess if some can't they can go ahead and believe decent GV types aren't capable of such "complex" things as air combat. Play the game the way you like but no need to denigrate those that compete in all areas as incapable of competing in someone else's one dimensional version - just giving the new guy some motivation to try out ground warfare.
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depends on the person :aok
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Funny, I'm more proficient in an airplane than in a tank. I wish that being decent at flying made me decent at tanking, but that just isn't so! Still, I see your point, and acknowledge that what I express here is not a rebuttal, it's just an observation.
For my part, what makes tanking difficult is not being able to see the enemy. When you do glimpse the enemy, if he was craftier and saw you first, you're dead.
You hit the nail on the head!!!!
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Unless you're this guy I'd say planes...
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/pugglekicker_21/Mr_T_BA.jpg)
I pitty the FOOL. Uptown you just had to give my jeep a pilot wound. :rofl
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Flying encompasses many styles and skills. Tanking has relatively fewer skills, shooting most notably, but trust me, there are guys out there who have honed them to an edge few can aspire to.
BTW, to all fliers who think tanking is "super easy" because of some misleading "2Dv3D" comparison...not necessarily. A fighter was designed to be flown by one person, and most of us have HOTAS setups that allow us to control them in a very natural and integrated manner. The guns are forward firing, maneuvering the airplane and aiming are one.
A tank was designed to be operated a team, but in AHII all team functions must be managed by one player. A tanker, if he is going to maneuver for cover, stop, shoot, maneuver again, must smoothly manage his use of all 3 positions while keeping track of the situation WITHOUT icons.
In one way, the tanking aspect is more like WWII air combat than the flying. No icon, and first sight and first accurate is usually the key to victory.
(For the record, I can't see the %@#%^@% tanks either.)
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Differs...
I'd have to say flying after you turn off your stall limiter. Until then, GV'ing.
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My vote is for GV's being more difficult. It is harder to see or hear a hiding tank than a plane diving on your head. The range is longer and the field of view is waaayyy smaller. A plane at 1 mile is no threat, but a tank at the same range with it's engine off waiting for you to roll into the base, chances are, your dead.
i agree. Also, you have to range your target, adds another level of hardness. in a plane i find it more second nature, a GV i need to think about what im doing
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Keep in mind too that while gving, you not only have to contend with other gvs, but with egg-dropping planes also.
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Just my opinion here....
but I think your individual skill, in either an aircraft, or GV, is relevant to the Arena in which you choose to learn those skills.
Personally, I prefer to learn in the Training Arena...others choose to learn in the...Early War, Mid War, Late War, or Dueling Arena...where difficulty is often gaged upon how well, or more often, how unprepared you are to meet your opposition.
I'd bet my LIFE that no Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine has ever deployed into Combat without first visiting some sort of Training Arena that would test his/her individual skillset.
Good Air/Ground Skillsets have been tested in Combat, and when combined, are nearly unsurmountable. Ask the Marines!
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A tank can give an a/c a NASTY surprise! But then....so can an M3 or LVT or a humble jeep. NEVER underestimate the power of the pintle mg when ur boring right in on a strafing run
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At this point its not even possible to compare the two. The air combat aspect is as realistic as "they" can make it while the GV component is totally arcadish. While certain fundementals do go along way the reality is that 90% of "GV skill" is just gaming the game.
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At this point its not even possible to compare the two. The air combat aspect is as realistic as "they" can make it while the GV component is totally arcadish. While certain fundementals do go along way the reality is that 90% of "GV skill" is just gaming the game.
Realistic? Flip flopping 38s, top spinning Spitfires, dive bombing Lancaster's, and one of my favorites, turns that would pop a pilots eyes out like corks from a champagne bottle (probably spelled that wrong). I could name a few more, but this is realistic flying. Looks to me the air game is just as gamey as the GV game.
But that's Fred's opinion,
Fred
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There's a lot more to master in a plane than there is in a GV. The main thing that makes the planes so tough is that it could take years to get very good with the proper textbook air combat maneuvers. All you gotta do with GV's is drive em.
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I find both fun to try to master. Like others here tanks are the most fun. Planes have dar dars (big dar lots of planes), easier to spot, easier to ID. Getting avarage in either takes time. The thrill of the hunt is what gets me going in gv and it the best when there isn't planes around for either side to do spotting or egging. GVing is alot more fun now that you can't turn your graphics down to make the trees go away.
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Realistic? Flip flopping 38s, top spinning Spitfires, dive bombing Lancaster's, and one of my favorites, turns that would pop a pilots eyes out like corks from a champagne bottle (probably spelled that wrong). I could name a few more, but this is realistic flying. Looks to me the air game is just as gamey as the GV game.
But that's Fred's opinion,
Fred
You complain about flipflopping 38s? If a 38 is that low on E your aim must be attrocious or you need to learn to not fall for a good rope.
Not sure what you mean about top spinning spitfires unless your talking about the funny spin they do when you've roped one outta all his E.
Yes, dive bombing lancs are dumb.
Last but not least, show me a film where the pilots eyes woulda popped under the g load, I'm curious to see it.
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You complain about flipflopping 38s? If a 38 is that low on E your aim must be attrocious or you need to learn to not fall for a good rope.
Not sure what you mean about top spinning spitfires unless your talking about the funny spin they do when you've roped one outta all his E.
Yes, dive bombing lancs are dumb.
Last but not least, show me a film where the pilots eyes woulda popped under the g load, I'm curious to see it.
Pull in those horse reins. I never said one thing about complaining.
I was just responding to the realistic nature of the game. As for proving anything, well its really not my intent, because most know what I am talking about. If you (they) don't agree, then don't, I'm not here to change anyones opinion, I'm just putting my two cents in.
Respectfully,
Fred
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Air to air. :aok
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A tank can give an a/c a NASTY surprise! But then....so can an M3 or LVT or a humble jeep. NEVER underestimate the power of the pintle mg when ur boring right in on a strafing run
Why would I use the pintle gun when I have a 76mm?
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Learning air combat is like learning the intricate steps and understanding the pasion, courtship and jealousy of the Tango.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=R7_rnucyZg8
Where as learning to Gv is just hemp on any old hook.
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Realistic? Flip flopping 38s, top spinning Spitfires, dive bombing Lancaster's, and one of my favorites, turns that would pop a pilots eyes out like corks from a champagne bottle (probably spelled that wrong). I could name a few more, but this is realistic flying. Looks to me the air game is just as gamey as the GV game.
But that's Fred's opinion,
Fred
Thats simply your lack of understanding of either real air to air combat or real tank warfare.
you can find literally hundreds of real life examples of pilots stalling spinning and literally popping the rivets on the plane to survive....even diving heavies (not that I agree with the formation BS)...the vast majority of what you see is not only historically possible but more then likely happened numerous times.
Now lets look at the GV game.
1) Penetrating hits in WW2 were almost 100% fatal. Further the dynamics of shot impact dictated that a shell of a certain diameter relative to armor thickness would penetrate with 100% certainty unless deflected. All to ften you see non richochets that "flash" like a hit with no effect. 2nd, spalling was a major source of destroyed tanks in WW2, this is a shell that cant penetrate but transfers enough energy to force splinters of the sheet on the inside of the tank. There is none of this "sweet spot" garbage in tank warfare. now that does not mean that a hit on the mantlet or thick part of the armor will not be absorbed. But there is no probability of failure on a 76mm AP round on the flat side armor of an opposing tank at short range....none period.
Further there is no cumulative damage, in WW2 a tank dies or lives. It does not matter if you hit the guy 4 times at an ineffective range...the guy who actually scores the killing shot should get the kill...not the case...just like planes straffing tanks and getting kills. There is no true skill in GVing other then the appropriate use of terrain...which is offset by all the gamey use of terrain. GVing is at this point a largely skillless undertaking.
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Thats simply your lack of understanding of either real air to air combat or real tank warfare.
you can find literally hundreds of real life examples of pilots stalling spinning and literally popping the rivets on the plane to survive....even diving heavies (not that I agree with the formation BS)...the vast majority of what you see is not only historically possible but more then likely happened numerous times.
Now lets look at the GV game.
1) Penetrating hits in WW2 were almost 100% fatal. Further the dynamics of shot impact dictated that a shell of a certain diameter relative to armor thickness would penetrate with 100% certainty unless deflected. All to ften you see non richochets that "flash" like a hit with no effect. 2nd, spalling was a major source of destroyed tanks in WW2, this is a shell that cant penetrate but transfers enough energy to force splinters of the sheet on the inside of the tank. There is none of this "sweet spot" garbage in tank warfare. now that does not mean that a hit on the mantlet or thick part of the armor will not be absorbed. But there is no probability of failure on a 76mm AP round on the flat side armor of an opposing tank at short range....none period.
Further there is no cumulative damage, in WW2 a tank dies or lives. It does not matter if you hit the guy 4 times at an ineffective range...the guy who actually scores the killing shot should get the kill...not the case...just like planes straffing tanks and getting kills. There is no true skill in GVing other then the appropriate use of terrain...which is offset by all the gamey use of terrain. GVing is at this point a largely skillless undertaking.
Funny how people that don't know me just assume my lack of knowledge. I just let that one go though.
As for the " historically possible but more then likely happened numerous times", you are absolutely correct. I'm sure these things happened, just before they crashed into the ground. To see one of these planes go into a flip flop type spin, or any other type of violent spin 500 feet off the ground and then recover, well, I tend to doubt that.
Now, I am not a student of WWII Flight History, but I do read some of the, I believe they call them AAR's (After Action Reports), that I have found on the internet. I have yet to find one that is even close to describing how they went into a violent spin 500 feet off the ground to avoid being shot down, and then were able to recover and kill their opponent. I'm sure there are several hundred thousand of these AAR's out there, so I guess there could be a few where it actually occurred. To convince me that this was a regular tactic as in this game, well, I don't think so.
As for your lengthy description on the GVs, I never said that side of the game was not a bit gamey. I just don't agree that the air side is so pure.
I guess the point I am trying to make is this is a game, a cartoon game, and there is essentially no connection to reality. I doubt that anyone in this game, without previous pilot training, could ever get a B17 off the ground based on their ability to play this game. I won't even get into the carrier takeoffs and landings.
If one wants to live in a fantasy world where they believe that this game is so close to reality, and they could actually do the things that the pilots in WWII did, well, so be it. I will keep the perspective that this is a great game and I love playing it, but I will never think that it is anything close to reality.
Again this is only my opinion,
Fred
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which is offset by all the gamey use of terrain. GVing is at this point a largely skillless undertaking.
Gamey use of terrain?
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Realistic? Flip flopping 38s
It has been discussed already, check out page 3 in particular.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,242664.0.html
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Gamey use of terrain?
How often to you see someone parking behind a tree so that they can shoot under it but incoming rounds detonate against the tree crown. Now I have no problem with a randomized result here but what we have is 100% absorption of the round. Combine that with all the "pet spots" that really rely on a glitch or anomaly in the artwork and its a big issue.
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How often to you see someone parking behind a tree so that they can shoot under it but incoming rounds detonate against the tree crown. Now I have no problem with a randomized result here but what we have is 100% absorption of the round. Combine that with all the "pet spots" that really rely on a glitch or anomaly in the artwork and its a big issue.
Far from being gamey at all in my book.
The fact that any object will stop a round by 100% is a well known fact since the first day. It's a standard "feature" of the game engine as is and not limited to trees.
Gamey would have been the exploitation of bugs & glitches.. hiding in windmill was one, as well as sticking your gunbarrel through certain hangar walls. Or manipulating your detail sliders so you could see distant tanks behind cover like hills & hedges.
But seeking cover behind a tree? No.
And just as a side note: The best battle I ever had in AH2 was a almost two hour long tank fight, where I found myself being the lione defender of an isolated GV base vs 3 or 4 enemy players. Never again I had experienced so much suspense, sweaty hands & pure fun. :)
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And just as a side note: The best battle I ever had in AH2 was a almost two hour long tank fight, where I found myself being the lione defender of an isolated GV base vs 3 or 4 enemy players. Never again I had experienced so much suspense, sweaty hands & pure fun. :)
(http://www.sybervision.com/reviews/images/ambien.gif)
Glad you enjoyed it, I don't understand the joy of tanking really.
After adding a few more aircraft and updating hit sprites, I think they really need to update the targeting sights on tanks. At least give it a little eye candy, or better yet give them historic sights.
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Delirium,
Not the type of spin I'm talking about. I have seen the spin described in that thread, and it is no where near like the other ones I have seen.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't think there is any hacking or cheating going on, I think some have just learned over time to exploit the modeling and do some unrealistic moves. I consider it part of the game.
The only point I was trying to make to Humble is the air side of the game can be just as gamey as the GV side. I'm not trying to say nothing more or less.
Thanks for the information. I like that 38 film. Just about makes me want to fly one. :salute
Fred
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GVs are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaay gamier!
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You just "drive" a tank? lol. There is more to it if you want to live long but the most important point of GV'ing is that first shot because of the skill level out there you may not get a second. There is a critical skill with tanking with regard to target distance estimation. Those who need several shots to "range" usually dont live too long unless the distance is great. Would you say the guy who hovers over a furball and picks off low "E" fighters has mad skills in fighters? If you have that kind of patience then it seems like that would be easy so isn't it all realative? I personally find fighters more difficult because there is more going on and at much greater speeds etc.
LTARogue
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which is harder..air combat or GVing in game?
Hands down air combat.
You can take everything that the gv aspect has in the game, and apply it to the air. Distance shooting, not missing your shot or your dead, getting jumped (snuck up on), and whatever else you can think of. Then you add the 3d aspect, the many different offensive and defensive maneuvers and at what air speed you can execute them, knowing when and if you should deploy flaps, trimming your plane, closure rates, that it all happens faster, and so on, and so on.
Given an even learning time line it takes much longer to become really good at air combat, just because there is more to learn.
I prefer air combat, but i have fun tanking from time to time, and like to defend bases in wirbles and ostis.
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Sorry if someone already said this, but I couldnt be bothered to read the whole thread. Ships guns are clearly the most difficult.
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Air combat is clearly the most difficult. Learning textbook ACM could take a very long time. Most pilots nowadays don't even know the first thing they are trying to do in a turn fight, just turning and hoping the enemy gets in their sites with no concept of counters, throttle control, and corner speeds.
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Dude, have you ever tried to vulch PT boats with a 5" gun on a CV when there is like 20+ upping? Its way harder than flying.