Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: infowars on November 19, 2008, 05:04:10 PM
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I'm getting a new box computer from a major retailer. I have read nothing good so far about vista and seems to unavoidable if I get a box comp.
I called a local computer store and asked if they can wipe it and put XP on. They said no problem a common request actually.
What do you guys think about this?
He said he can use the XP key from my old computer in order to make the OS legit.
Thanks
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Thats ok ONLY if you are buying a Vista Business or Ultimate. You can downgrade it to XPPro and use your old key.
You are not allowed to downgrade Vista home premium or basic.
(these were the rules when downgrade option became available, ask MS if you want to be sure)
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I'm getting a new box computer from a major retailer. I have read nothing good so far about vista and seems to unavoidable if I get a box comp.
I called a local computer store and asked if they can wipe it and put XP on. They said no problem a common request actually.
What do you guys think about this?
He said he can use the XP key from my old computer in order to make the OS legit.
Thanks
I'm not trying to persuade you otherwise, however building your own or asking someone else to stick it together for you has major benefits.
For example, my family's HP has an onboard video chipset and onboard sound chipset. Also the space is crammed with very little space to work. This makes cleaning, upgrading, or tuning extremely difficult and in turn wears down the hardware. Now, you could build one (or once again, ask someone to stick it together for you) yourself for a cheaper price and at the same time you get hardware that is more durable, and a computer that actually works better.
The only downside of building your own, no warranty. Which is (in my opinion) the only thing which makes buying a pre-built computer worth it.
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I'm not trying to persuade you otherwise, however building your own or asking someone else to stick it together for you has major benefits.
For example, my family's HP has an onboard video chipset and onboard sound chipset. Also the space is crammed with very little space to work. This makes cleaning, upgrading, or tuning extremely difficult and in turn wears down the hardware. Now, you could build one (or once again, ask someone to stick it together for you) yourself for a cheaper price and at the same time you get hardware that is more durable, and a computer that actually works better.
The only downside of building your own, no warranty. Which is (in my opinion) the only thing which makes buying a pre-built computer worth it.
What you didn't mention about warranties, is that all the parts in the system come with manufactures warranties ie most memory Lifetime, most hard drives 3 years, motherboards 1 to 3 years, DVD/Cd's 1 to 3 years. Also all systems come with an on-board video chipset I think what your meaning is on-board video meaning it shares the video with the system memory. So yes there is a warranty with systems build outside of a store! But what the stores call sucker "up-sells" is the extended warranty, they sell you an "extended warranty" then they send in the parts to the manufacture for a free replacement... no cost to the store.
I do agree with what your saying as far as the parts, you get garbage or retired components for the most part from stores like Circuit City, Best Buy etc. The reason for systems being sold at 500 or 700 or 999 is the parts are old old old, 18 month old technology or inferior parts like DDR2 that runs at the slowest system buses, you will not find the mid level boards or graphics cards in those systems, only entry level with today's technology at best. I posted a system for 1500.00 that will run circles around any dell, gateway, or other store bought machine costing 1 1/2 to 2 times as much.
Lots guys here play this game and if they get a decent frame rate they are happy, but what if they decide to play something else, the monies they spent on the machine for AHII is wasted since the machine was not build for "Gaming" from the start. Check out a program called 3DMARK06 http://www.futuremark.com/benchmarks/3dmark06/introduction/ (http://www.futuremark.com/benchmarks/3dmark06/introduction/) its what is used to benchmark machines. If your not in the 11000 mark or above then you have a system that is slow and your machine will stall with most of the newer games coming out. DirectX 10 is out and the gaming companies are starting to make use of this. If you don't build around DirectX 10 you will be out building or upgrading again when and if AHII takes that route and will eventually will have to.
As for Vista, yea its a big system resource hog, but again build the right system from the start with the proper components and no problems. XP is no longer being made or supported so the service packs are no longer going to be available. Soon XP new in the box will go out of sight. I used to pay 109.00 for XP PRO now its at 141.00. I agree with Skuzzy that Vista is an IT guys dream, very little to have to do with security but it is a system resource hog, back to build right from the start no problems.
Bottom line is this, the original poster here stated in another post stating he has 1500.00 to spend on a system, I posted in his thread a 1500.00 system that will score in the 13000 to 15000 range on 3DMARK06 with little or no tweeking for him to do, if he were to call Dell or Gateway for a "Custom" build of the components I listed he would spend 2400.00 plus but he would get that warranty from Dell or XYZ company.
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The only downside of building your own, no warranty. Which is (in my opinion) the only thing which makes buying a pre-built computer worth it.
Been building my own (and others) computers for 15 years. There's no reason to go to the store to buy one unless you want that warranty.
My experience with retailer PCs is that they are poorly configured and purposely built with bottlenecks in the system.
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Been building my own (and others) computers for 15 years. There's no reason to go to the store to buy one unless you want that warranty.
Again you have a warranty even if you build your own. Only difference is you put the parts in instead of the store. If you can handle a philips head you can build a system or change out a part.
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Thanks TilDeath, forgot about the manufacturer warranties.
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Warranties is one thing, another one is customer support for the computer challenged. :D
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That's what this forum is all about.
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Warranties is one thing, another one is customer support for the computer challenged. :D
Microsoft will no longer be supporting XP in anyway and that's what started this thread. Someone stated here that its an option to downgrade to XP. MS licencing actually states you can install on ONE computer only. So if you want to install XP on a brand new machine and you already own a license, you can install it on any machine be it today or 10 years from now as long as its installed on only one system. Something that was also over looked and not mentioned about the store is, are there drivers for the components in that machine that are for XP, do they make the drivers for XP. That would be the real issue with "downgrading".
Support for products in a custom build, the manufactures support it all... where you you think Dell, Gateway etc get their support from, the vendors, every memory manufacture maintain support forums and supports phone lines, same with motherboard, WD does too as well as every video card manufacturer. What it boils down to from what I have seen in these forums is lack of knowledge and I am not meaning computer know how or skill with hardware, but what to buy, so people go with the "Jone's", its the simple way out. Heck if they sell it in the store it must be ok. Its safe s to speak. What also is not mentioned, i something does happen to your machine with the warranty it goes to the store, whom sends it to the manufacture, who fixes the problem then sends it back to the store who calls you and in some cases 2 or 3 weeks later you have a working machine again. Builds they cross ship the part down time 3 to 4 days. How do I know this well I sell Dells and Gateways and they require me to send them back systems even if its a simple matter of replacing memory or a hard drive or a video card all 5 min fixes, but they have been ripped off some much in the past by unfaithful resellers for parts, they now want you to send the whole box in. Phewie on it all I don't sell any Dells, Gateway's etc other then laptops anymore. Easier to build and warranty the build.
And did I mention if you decide to upgrade that system, have fun, most of the PCI-e slots are still PCI-e not PCI-e 2 which you would need for an SLI configuration with the newer Video cards or memory, they cant handle the better memory with faster latency. Or max out at 2 gb is what they recommend, its all in the bios since they are looking to make money (like us all) they don't put much monies into the systems overall, a bios that will boot is about all you get. Or try to get a better power supply, in a lot of cases its not happening. They have proprietary components that cost an arm and a leg to replace if your out of warranty.
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XP Pro will be supported by Microsoft until 2014. Support for all other versions of XP are being dropped in 2010, although rumors have been circulating MS will drop support late next year.
Drivers are always an issue, expecially if it is a laptop, but general driver support for XP will continue for many more years. It is still the lion share of the MS OS install base.
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As you know, I work for a MS+HP reseller. We were informed that MS stops manufacturing XPPro OEM next january.
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Manufacturing, yes, but support is still being reported as continuing until 2014 for XP Pro.
Microsoft cannot afford to abandon the hundreds of Fortune 500 companies who still use XP Pro and who refuse to switch to Vista. That is the sole reason for the time period of support continuing for XP Pro.
It also would not surprise me if Dell continues to ship XP Pro as an option for quite some time after the first of the year. Dell's license arrangement will allow them to continue to ship XP Pro as long as they want.
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Bottom line is this, the original poster here stated in another post stating he has 1500.00 to spend on a system, I posted in his thread a 1500.00 system that will score in the 13000 to 15000 range on 3DMARK06 with little or no tweeking for him to do, if he were to call Dell or Gateway for a "Custom" build of the components I listed he would spend 2400.00 plus but he would get that warranty from Dell or XYZ company.
He only wanted to spend $500, not $1500. I don't think you can hit those benchmarks for $500.
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I really don't have much of a choice of where I get it from... because... woot woot my Mom is buying me one for my birthday and they are Circuit City people. With that being said if you don't mind take a look at the following link and let me know what is the best bang for thier buck... Thanks
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/viewCompare.do?oid=222590&oid=213650&oid=224748&oid=213657&user=true
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I don't like how they don't specify graphics card or motherboard specs, but the second one from left seem like a good option with a Intel CPU and 2 x PCI-E x16 slots. Unfortunately PSU make and wattage is not specified on either of them, that's really bad and pretty much means they could put anything in.
Just my €0.02 ;)
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Of these I'd go with the HP Pavilion Elite m9426f Desktop. It's got an ATI 3650 with 512K dedicated memory, 8 Gb RAM and an available PCI slot so you could add a sound card if you wanted to.
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He only wanted to spend $500, not $1500. I don't think you can hit those benchmarks for $500.
I thought it was him but looking back I was mistaken and it was iTunes whom stated 1500.00 but I quoted out a 700.00 system that will hit the 11000 without OCing.
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Of these I'd go with the HP Pavilion Elite m9426f Desktop. It's got an ATI 3650 with 512K dedicated memory, 8 Gb RAM and an available PCI slot so you could add a sound card if you wanted to.
LOL thats double the 500.00 he stated he had to spend... of hell kid go 3 times the amount and let Mom and Dad read the threads and decide.
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LOL thats double the 500.00 he stated he had to spend... of hell kid go 3 times the amount and let Mom and Dad read the threads and decide.
I just picked from 4 systems on the page he posted (which was after my post about the $500).
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XP Pro will be supported by Microsoft until 2014. Support for all other versions of XP are being dropped in 2010, although rumors have been circulating MS will drop support late next year.
Drivers are always an issue, especially if it is a laptop, but general driver support for XP will continue for many more years. It is still the lion share of the MS OS install base.
I agree extended support will be available until April 8, 2014 but isn't mainstream support stopping on April 14, 2009 which most of the current "home" (XP Pro, Home, Media etc) users will fall into. From the bulletins I get from MS and the MSDN community, drivers on new product entering the market will not have a working (stable) inf file for any version of XP. I have had this discussion with my eVGA, ASUS, Gigabyte reps amongst others they are basically saying the same thing for their video cards, motherboard and other peripherals.
Please correct me if I am wrong here.
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I don't like how they don't specify graphics card or motherboard specs, but the second one from left seem like a good option with a Intel CPU and 2 x PCI-E x16 slots. Unfortunately PSU make and wattage is not specified on either of them, that's really bad and pretty much means they could put anything in.
Just my €0.02 ;)
Everyone of those machines has a 300 watt PSU. In addition I did sell HP, Gateway, Dell etc but choose not to any longer since they are not upgradeable. Right out the box the PSU need replaced for dependability, limited connectors if any extra (proprietary PSU) so out goes the idea of a second hard drive. The memory configurations are always shared.
But again lets get back to the support issue. If you install XP on this machine and it is not offered by HP as an option, the HP call in support is now gone. They will still continue to offer the hardware warranty but you will have no support if you call HP and they choose not to assist you. Will most likely be a case by case basis. Since the support persons are usually not "REAL SUPPORT" persons they type your problem into a database for "that machine" and get answers or solutions based on a Vista install not XP.
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Manufacturing, yes, but support is still being reported as continuing until 2014 for XP Pro.
Microsoft cannot afford to abandon the hundreds of Fortune 500 companies who still use XP Pro and who refuse to switch to Vista. That is the sole reason for the time period of support continuing for XP Pro.
It also would not surprise me if Dell continues to ship XP Pro as an option for quite some time after the first of the year. Dell's license arrangement will allow them to continue to ship XP Pro as long as they want.
Yes, as other builders too. There is propably a Vista Business label in bottom of the pc/laptop... So it is downgraded Vista. :)
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I just picked from 4 systems on the page he posted (which was after my post about the $500).
LOL I was joking ya