Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Phaser11 on November 20, 2008, 07:00:42 AM
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Auto Help
A perspective from some where near the bottom.
First I am not a union member, we are a “new” non union shop that supplies GM. We are currently getting with new customers, but it is a very slow process. What we do here is the difference between a transmission that is good for 30,000 miles and one that has the unlimited power train warrantee. It is called Vacuum carburizing.
We are all very worried about what happens to the big 3. What happens to them happens to us. I have been hoping for the best and planning for the worst.
We were sitting around the lunch room yesterday and started coming up with what may happen if this stuff is not sorted out. Remember we are not a think tank, were the guys in the lunch room. Here is some food for thought.
Looking at the news 1.7 million people will be affected by just GM alone if it kicks.
And before you start, the following are at fault.
Auto makers
Union
Suppliers
People who by cars
People who sell cars
And many others.
Who will pay.
1.7 million mortgages.
1.7 million food bills.
1.7 million car payments.
1.7 million repossessions for missed or non payments.
1.7 million doctor bills
It goes on and on, but the one that stands out to me is 1.7 million mortgages. Did congress just fix this? For those of you who say let them go, good for you. You have made a choice. For me, I’m going to the doctors today to get some pills so I can sleep at night.
1.7 million people may be looking for a new job or at least living off what we can, or 1.7 million are going to get smart and leave the debunked auto companies and move to your state and start taking your jobs.
The word you are looking for is Slag. We’re a new class of people “Slags” (after some old TV show).
Semper Gumby, “no good deed ever goes unpunished.”
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Relax the destruction of America should be over soon.
Remember FDR?
He was the one that made the 1st depression LINGER as long as he could. Made some REALLY big changes in our system. Took us off the Gold standard, created the Social Security System, are among some of what he did.
Do a look up and pretty sure you will see that he did things that made the Depression last as long as possible.
He was also very chummy with the Communist and would even call Uncle Joe on the phone much more often then he needed to.
A little something I've noticed is the Media often tells you what's coming. The Media is sort of a test balloon and semi-training system now. Has been for some time.
Obama has been caste in the guise of FDR right down to the cigarette ......
And I was watching "Predator Vs. Alien Requiem" and noticed something at the end.
The survivors were required to surrender their weapons at the end and told everything would be alright, they would even get medical help BUT, surrender those weapons!
That might not mean much to many but I can still remember older films when the Military and the survivors meant up they would ARM the survivors if they lacked weapons, and even start training them, because we were all on the same team.
Anyways don't worry it shouldn't take too much longer. Maybe a year or so if we don't resist too much.
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After what GM did to the EV1 I have little sympathy for their executives. That said, government aid should be tied to a requirement for GM to get back to the basics and build cars America needs to be independent of foreign oil, plus a pay cap for all their suits.
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Relax the destruction of America should be over soon.
Remember FDR?
He was the one that made the 1st depression LINGER as long as he could. Made some REALLY big changes in our system. Took us off the Gold standard, created the Social Security System, are among some of what he did.
Do a look up and pretty sure you will see that he did things that made the Depression last as long as possible.
He was also very chummy with the Communist and would even call Uncle Joe on the phone much more often then he needed to.
A little something I've noticed is the Media often tells you what's coming. The Media is sort of a test balloon and semi-training system now. Has been for some time.
Obama has been caste in the guise of FDR right down to the cigarette ......
And I was watching "Predator Vs. Alien Requiem" and noticed something at the end.
The survivors were required to surrender their weapons at the end and told everything would be alright, they would even get medical help BUT, surrender those weapons!
That might not mean much to many but I can still remember older films when the Military and the survivors meant up they would ARM the survivors if they lacked weapons, and even start training them, because we were all on the same team.
Anyways don't worry it shouldn't take too much longer. Maybe a year or so if we don't resist too much.
I'm not quite as pessimistic as you wrag ....yet. However, so many hold FDR as a savior when in fact he caused the great depression to linger as you said.
I do like your analogy of alien vs predator vs the older films. There is some truth to that. Was it Jefferson who said " Anyone who will trade an ounce of freedom for an ounce of security derserves neither!"
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I do like your analogy of alien vs predator vs the older films. There is some truth to that. Was it Jefferson who said " Anyone who will trade an ounce of freedom for an ounce of security derserves neither!"
Twas Franklin. The quote has showed up in many variants, but my favorite is "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
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Twas Franklin. The quote has showed up in many variants, but my favorite is "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
I so want to get into this but... I am not going there, I will say that, I so friggen agree...
and one of my favorite parts of the Constitution is where it is mentioned that "...its the American peoples obligation to stand up and take out a government that is not doing its job..."
see why I cant go further...I hope I am not pushing my luck
sry skuzz if it is, crap now I dont want to hit Post...
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Best way to control people is to put them in a prison that they can't see the bars :aok
Sheeple
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Truthfully I would prefere to bailout the auto industry as opposed to the financial institutions. At least the big three produce something. The only thing I see the financial institutions seem to produce is wealth for their executives and the politicians they are in bed with.
The auto industry does need to pull their head out, but in their defence they were only selling what the people wanted. Unfortunately you can't change a production line as fast as the American people change their minds.
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I'm not quite as pessimistic as you wrag ....yet. However, so many hold FDR as a savior when in fact he caused the great depression to linger as you said.
I do like your analogy of alien vs predator vs the older films. There is some truth to that. Was it Jefferson who said " Anyone who will trade an ounce of freedom for an ounce of security derserves neither!"
Think that was Benjamin Franklin?
Actually I was being optimistic....
So many believe that Communism and the old USSR is dead. <sigh>
Is it?
I think not but we shall see.
Too many things gatherin in my mind.
The one thing I scored the highest on in my Military testing was pattern analysis.
There are some patterns going on here that don't fit what I SEE happening.
If Communism were dead.... the patterns would or should be different?
Or Communism isn't the actual threat?
I could go into a lot of things but would take awhile to get it all explained.
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Fascism is worst than Communism :D
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The auto industry does need to pull their head out, but in their defence they were only selling what the people wanted. Unfortunately you can't change a production line as fast as the American people change their minds.
No way. Marketing is all about creating desire where it didn't exist before. Advertising executives prey on those with weak self-esteem, status-anxiety and anyone who fears they aren't keeping up with the Jones'. They say "here, buy your product and people will admire you." The urban American love of the SUV was manufactured in the offices of marketing shmuks.
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No way. Marketing is all about creating desire where it didn't exist before. Advertising executives prey on those with weak self-esteem, status-anxiety and anyone who fears they aren't keeping up with the Jones'. They say "here, buy your product and people will admire you." The urban American love of the SUV was manufactured in the offices of marketing shmuks.
You may have a point. After all they did convinced the majority of the American people that it was time for "change" as well. Funny how the more things change the more they look like the same old stuff.
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You may have a point. After all they did convinced the majority of the American people that it was time for "change" as well.
am i hearINg the gentle sound of thIN ice crackINg?
:rofl
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Poorly developed companies shun diversification and pay the price.
Does this company you work for have just one single customer? Does this company make anything else?
With no diversification it is sort of like follow the leader. Some other company makes the calls and the others have to follow. Even if they run right off a cliff. In that regard you have to take the good with the bad.
I have always taken care of my own and expect others to do the same. If I make a poor judgement I pay the price.... not my neighbor. I am solely responsible for my decisions.
Those that live off the public dole should be required to do public service while on the dole. It's only fair i think.
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Think that was Benjamin Franklin?
Actually I was being optimistic....
So many believe that Communism and the old USSR is dead. <sigh>
Is it?
I think not but we shall see.
Too many things gatherin in my mind.
The one thing I scored the highest on in my Military testing was pattern analysis.
There are some patterns going on here that don't fit what I SEE happening.
If Communism were dead.... the patterns would or should be different?
Or Communism isn't the actual threat?
I could go into a lot of things but would take awhile to get it all explained.
Oh I'm seeing a pattern here too
Looks kinda like a straight jacket, but with nice red fake buttons to make you have something to look at
:)
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You can remove everyone EXCEPT the auto makers for who is at fault.
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Many companies start off with just one customer, if not all of them. Once you have established a niche in the market, then you can diversify. This country is screwed if the auto industry goes kaput, or if the foreign car mfg'rs like saturn don't put plants here. There are companies supplying the auto industry which have companies supplying them. Thousands of workers and service industry employees. I had a customer who made one piece of a mechanism for a shock absorber, he said there were over 15 other companies supplying different parts for the mechanism. That is common in the machining industry, so all you have to do, is do the math, FDR bs aside. The world is a whole different place right now.
NwBie
< Squelching wrag on squad vox for 3 years running> <only when he sings>
:)
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Saturn is a foreign manufacturer? I aways thought they were a GM spinoff.
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Auto Help
A perspective from some where near the bottom.
First I am not a union member, we are a “new” non union shop that supplies GM. We are currently getting with new customers, but it is a very slow process. What we do here is the difference between a transmission that is good for 30,000 miles and one that has the unlimited power train warrantee. It is called Vacuum carburizing.
We are all very worried about what happens to the big 3. What happens to them happens to us. I have been hoping for the best and planning for the worst.
We were sitting around the lunch room yesterday and started coming up with what may happen if this stuff is not sorted out. Remember we are not a think tank, were the guys in the lunch room. Here is some food for thought.
Looking at the news 1.7 million people will be affected by just GM alone if it kicks.
And before you start, the following are at fault.
Auto makers
Union
Suppliers
People who by cars
People who sell cars
And many others.
Who will pay.
1.7 million mortgages.
1.7 million food bills.
1.7 million car payments.
1.7 million repossessions for missed or non payments.
1.7 million doctor bills
It goes on and on, but the one that stands out to me is 1.7 million mortgages. Did congress just fix this? For those of you who say let them go, good for you. You have made a choice. For me, I’m going to the doctors today to get some pills so I can sleep at night.
1.7 million people may be looking for a new job or at least living off what we can, or 1.7 million are going to get smart and leave the debunked auto companies and move to your state and start taking your jobs.
The word you are looking for is Slag. We’re a new class of people “Slags” (after some old TV show).
Semper Gumby, “no good deed ever goes unpunished.”
So how often do you expect us to bail the auto makers out? I mean, giving them this money isn't going to stop them from operating at a loss. How long do you expect the rest of the country to support them so you can keep your job? How do you like your brand of socialism?
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Many companies start off with just one customer, if not all of them. Once you have established a niche in the market, then you can diversify. This country is screwed if the auto industry goes kaput, or if the foreign car mfg'rs like saturn don't put plants here. There are companies supplying the auto industry which have companies supplying them. Thousands of workers and service industry employees. I had a customer who made one piece of a mechanism for a shock absorber, he said there were over 15 other companies supplying different parts for the mechanism. That is common in the machining industry, so all you have to do, is do the math, FDR bs aside. The world is a whole different place right now.
NwBie
< Squelching wrag on squad vox for 3 years running> <only when he sings>
:)
I am stunned that you think the auto industry will go away if they don't get the bail out. The masses are so uninformed but what realyl surprises me is that almost all of them are content to be this way.
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The auto companies WILL get the bail-out, only next year when the roster of public officials change, in January. The party taking over next year does not want the labor contracts re-negotiated and will bail out the companies to prevent this.
Besides, in some cases it has proven fruitful to the US Government. Didn't Chrysler get a package years ago and not only paid the government back but also with interest?
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Didn't Chrysler get a package years ago and not only paid the government back but also with interest?
Yes they did.
3 Million jobs would be lost if the big 3 go down. Not to mention the trickle down effects of the surrounding population, of these factories.
We should have never let the Japanese auto makers build plants here. They would never have let us do the same. Japanese people loved American cars in the past, but their government put higher import taxes on our cars, making it insane for them to buy them.
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We should have never let the Japanese auto makers build plants here.
I'm admittedly one of the guilty ones, I own a Subaru. Granted, it is assembled in the US (I think Kentucky) but it is a Japanese car.
It is interesting that Subaru is made by Fuji Heavy Industries at the Ota Plant. During WWII Fuji Heavy Industries was known as Nakajima. One of the plants owned by Nakajima is the Ota plant (visted by Hirohito in 1934) which made Ki-84s Hayate/Frank starting in April of 1944.
Call me a traitor, but there was nothing even close to my Subaru Baja available for purchase by American car companies. I wanted a small V 4 of 6 with a full backseat, 4 door, and a pickup bed in the back. The only thing made by Americans that offered what I wanted was the huge V-8 Avalanch and it was just too big, too expensive, and too expensive to run.
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The auto companies WILL get the bail-out, only next year when the roster of public officials change, in January. The party taking over next year does not want the labor contracts re-negotiated and will bail out the companies to prevent this.
Besides, in some cases it has proven fruitful to the US Government. Didn't Chrysler get a package years ago and not only paid the government back but also with interest?
the Chrysler bailout resulted in the loss of blue collar and white collar jobs including top management, and a realignment of the product line with new models. Lee Iaccoca was brought in as CEO and reorganized the place.
it was not without pain but it saved the company.
and the party taking over next year is the same party the controls congress now.
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Yes they did.
3 Million jobs would be lost if the big 3 go down. .
Again. It's both funny and tragic to realize that people are so unneducated as to think that the big 3 will be out of business if they don't get the bail out.
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Many companies start off with just one customer, if not all of them. Once you have established a niche in the market, then you can diversify. This country is screwed if the auto industry goes kaput, or if the foreign car mfg'rs like saturn don't put plants here. There are companies supplying the auto industry which have companies supplying them. Thousands of workers and service industry employees. I had a customer who made one piece of a mechanism for a shock absorber, he said there were over 15 other companies supplying different parts for the mechanism. That is common in the machining industry
I own a machining and fabriction company. I know of several others. That is not necessarily common.
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The auto companies WILL get the bail-out, only next year when the roster of public officials change, in January. The party taking over next year does not want the labor contracts re-negotiated and will bail out the companies to prevent this.
Besides, in some cases it has proven fruitful to the US Government. Didn't Chrysler get a package years ago and not only paid the government back but also with interest?
Yes! Lee took zero dollars as pay during that time too. Was a loan not bailout though.
My Chevy trucks were both assembled in Texas but the parts came from all over in and out of the states. My brother is having trouble with the self adjusting backup mirrors on his new H2 Hummer and he has been having to talk to folks in Argentina. BTW The mirrors do not work on any of the H2s tested at the dealership. That is BS for any machine but more so for one that cost 80k.
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Bigger problem than the bailout question is this:
Have the big three shown that they can design and build a vehicle with both competitive quality and competitive price? If they can't, then no bailout will save them -- it only delays the inevitable.
Honda couldn't sell cars in America -- US plants or not -- if they didn't make vehicles that people want at prices they'll pay. The fact that they sell well comes down to the simple reality that buyers think they get a better deal or a better car, or both.
After all, how many Yugos and Dihatsus are on the streets? (I mean, actually RUNNING.) People won't buy just cause its foreign or cause its cheap!
And it seems to me that the big 3s biggest problem is that they've cruised along for years, losing untold BILLIONS of their corporate dollars money while selling cars that don't measure up. The only reason they're crying is that they've finally pizzed away the cash they created over generations of making good products.
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I, _____________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. I will obey the orders of the president and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulation and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So Help Me God
Very simple but says so much.
It is going to be an interesting four years
The auto industry workers are the only one who really get toasted in this deal.
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Again. It's both funny and tragic to realize that people are so unneducated as to think that the big 3 will be out of business if they don't get the bail out.
uneducated
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Up until a few months ago, sales are up for GM and Ford from previous years. But the growth per operating cost is keeping them from making profits.
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uneducated
typo
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Twas Franklin. The quote has showed up in many variants, but my favorite is "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
and Franklin is right.
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Maybe when Auto executives go to Washington to beg for money, they should fly coach.
I found this interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3MWKBD3Iu4&eurl=http://benbittrolff.blogspot.com/2008/11/how-to-not-beg-for-billions-from.html (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3MWKBD3Iu4&eurl=http://benbittrolff.blogspot.com/2008/11/how-to-not-beg-for-billions-from.html)
Like the host says, two flights could equal a workers yearly salary.
wrongway
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Up until a few months ago, sales are up for GM and Ford from previous years. But the growth per operating cost is keeping them from making profits.
Which is why "bailing them out" is likely futile. They're selling more and still losing money --
Without major restructuring -- which should NOT start with line workers, IMHO, but should emphasize operational and managerial overhead first (since that's where the fat is, and where the problem came from in the first place!)
The managers are the ones who ignored the oncoming train, watching the companies bleed billions away.
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I guess i should have been a little more specific, the credit wings of the auto industry are the really desperate ones. If they do not get the same deal the other financial institutions are getting, then yes, the auto industry is screwed. i am amazed at how many people are ignorant to the amount of industry and service business that are connected to the big 3 auto industry. it is estimated that one in ten jobs in America are reliant on the industry. that means up to and not including the already almost 8% unemployment figures now, an additional potential of 8% unenployment. This affects all parts of the World economy.
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I'm sure executive spending is out of control, but maybe a $2-3 an hour pay cut for all employees would save the company(s).
Better to make a little less, than be out of a job.
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I'm sure executive spending is out of control, but maybe a $2-3 an hour pay cut for all employees would save the company(s).
Better to make a little less, than be out of a job.
unfortunately Motley most of the workers involved are union workers. the unions would much rather bleed a company dry and then fight over the scraps of the carcass that remains than to give up even a penny for the greater good of the company and its survival.
i would be willing to bet that if the big three get government bail out money the first thing they will have to do is deal with the various unions involved and give them some form of raise or payoff to prevent them from striking. the unions wont allow the companies to get a shot in the arm without taking their piece of the pie also.
FLOTSOM
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I'm sure executive spending is out of control, but maybe a $2-3 an hour pay cut for all employees would save the company(s).
Better to make a little less, than be out of a job.
Make it percentage cut...across the board for every employee of every entity the government is bailing out. The bigger the bailout the bigger percentage their pay is cut is.