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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: 1pLUs44 on November 23, 2008, 12:59:47 AM

Title: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: 1pLUs44 on November 23, 2008, 12:59:47 AM
I'm not sure of the model, but I was looking up 51 pics, and I found a picture of a P-51A (I think, maybe a C?) with what looks to be 3 .50s on each side of the wing instead of the 2. Did this ever actually happen?


http://www.starduststudios.com/bluepj.htm

4th Picture, man standing in front of plane.

:salute
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Krusty on November 23, 2008, 01:31:56 AM
It's not a gun. It's either painted on or a landing light.
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 23, 2008, 01:33:47 AM
Looks painted on.

ack-ack
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Guppy35 on November 23, 2008, 02:12:21 AM
As the caption says.  painted on.
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Die Hard on November 23, 2008, 02:21:14 AM
Reading comprehension: Fail.  ;)
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on November 23, 2008, 06:05:07 AM
" Note the fake gun port painted above the external fuel tank. "
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: CPW on November 23, 2008, 06:59:32 AM
I'm not sure of the model, but I was looking up 51 pics, and I found a picture of a P-51A (I think, maybe a C?) with what looks to be 3 .50s on each side of the wing instead of the 2. Did this ever actually happen?

You need this~

The first batch of P-51Ds was the -1NA block, NA-110. This was 100 P-51Ds unassembled to Australia. Another oddity, it is reported that the first four in this block still had the B model birdcage canopy.

http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51D.shtml
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: SectorNine50 on November 23, 2008, 06:52:30 PM
Wonder if they did that to make the enemy think it was a D model?
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Motherland on November 23, 2008, 07:14:41 PM
Wonder if they did that to make the enemy think it was a D model?
I think you would notice the razorback before you noticed a tiny little dot on the leading edge of the wing. ;)
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Guppy35 on November 23, 2008, 07:40:56 PM
You gents haven't seen the Marine Corsairs with 2-3 extra painted on gunports per wing?
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Motherland on November 23, 2008, 07:42:25 PM
You gents haven't seen the Marine Corsairs with 2-3 extra painted on gunports per wing?
I've seen those as well, and though I understand the thought process to a degree, I don't see how the pilots expected the target to see those little dots on the leading edge of the wing, especially over the 6 .50 caliber muzzle flashes.
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Saxman on November 23, 2008, 11:21:38 PM
Motherland,

They also used the strips of tape that protected the gunports during takeoff, which would be much more easily visible.
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Die Hard on November 24, 2008, 01:05:38 AM
It was a fairly common practice to paint/mount fake guns on unarmed photo recon planes.

(http://content.screencast.com/users/Lumpy/folders/Jing/media/a40483d4-1640-44d9-9c4e-10373c79d33d/2008-11-24_0807.png)

The guns on this 110 are fake.


Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: uptown on November 24, 2008, 07:19:30 AM
Yes, the gun port is painted on...but why would they do that? To fool the enemy? A joke? I don't get it. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Saxman on November 24, 2008, 07:46:53 AM
To make the aircraft look more heavily-armed than it really was. Intimidation, I think.
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Die Hard on November 24, 2008, 07:56:22 AM
On recon planes the reason was so that the enemy wouldn't know they were unarmed and couldn't pick them out from the escorts.
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Cthulhu on November 24, 2008, 04:33:54 PM
On recon planes the reason was so that the enemy wouldn't know they were unarmed and couldn't pick them out from the escorts.
In the air, the windows for the large apeture photo gear would be visible long before the armament, either real or bogus, was. Most likely the fake gunports were more of a psychological boost to the recon pilots than anything else. Also I believe almost all recon missions were flown unescorted, keeping a "low profile", minimizing radar return, etc. IIRC, this was true with most of the F-4 and F-5 missions flown.
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Guppy35 on November 24, 2008, 06:45:52 PM
In the air, the windows for the large apeture photo gear would be visible long before the armament, either real or bogus, was. Most likely the fake gunports were more of a psychological boost to the recon pilots than anything else. Also I believe almost all recon missions were flown unescorted, keeping a "low profile", minimizing radar return, etc. IIRC, this was true with most of the F-4 and F-5 missions flown.

This guy must have missed the memo.  Fake gun barrels on his recce 38.  The nose contour would have been the same until the late F5G noses too.  I would agree that in least part of the logic was to reassure the pilots.

Recce 38s often got escorts in the ETO.

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Recce38.jpg)
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: 1pLUs44 on November 27, 2008, 12:51:38 AM
Sorry, was honestly looking for a plane that I was gonna try skinning. I wanted to take a whack at a 352nd when that picture caught my eye.

:salute

:rofl (what I get from a Texas edujamacation :)  )
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Cthulhu on November 28, 2008, 12:07:44 PM
This guy must have missed the memo.  Fake gun barrels on his recce 38.  The nose contour would have been the same until the late F5G noses too.  I would agree that in least part of the logic was to reassure the pilots.

Recce 38s often got escorts in the ETO.

(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Recce38.jpg)
Actually the glazing for the recon gear was even more obvious on the F-5E's than it is on the G's. (will post pics as soon as ImageShack get's it's act together :mad:) Still seems that the camera ports would be identifiable at a far greater range than any armament, real or "pretend". Guessing the escort info I found was more applicable to the PTO the the ETO. Far easier to just outrun any surprises in the Pacific than it was in Europe.
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Krusty on December 02, 2008, 11:03:31 PM
I've got a book with a photo of a Bf110C/E in the med with painted on cannon gunports and the ground crew walking towards it with the recon camera (which sat in the fuselage where the cannons normally were).

I think by the time you got close enough to notice it would be too late to make a difference. I agree it's mostly for the crew's sake.


EDIT: P.S. Maybe the enemy pilots didn't know most recons were unarmed. Most allied recon planes WERE armed, whereas many LW recon fighter planes sacrificed significant armament to house cameras (weight savings)
Title: Re: P-51C/A with 3 .50s?
Post by: Chalenge on December 03, 2008, 12:11:55 AM
Just another dumb things humans do from time to time.