Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: drdeathx on November 26, 2008, 12:43:01 AM
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The natural gas story is old news. Every manufacturer has natural gas engines ready. Detroit is so tied in with Washington it is pathetic.
UPS began deploying alternative fuel vehicles in the 1930s with a fleet of electric trucks that operated in New York City. The company's "green fleet" has traveled 143 million miles since 2000.
ATLANTA, Dec. 17, 2002 – Today UPS (NYSE: UPS) will introduce the package delivery industry's first alternative fuel Class 8 tractors. Ten Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) tractors will officially begin operating in the company’s West Coast fleet each day traveling from California to Nevada.
Waste Management (WMI) operates a fleet of nearly 500 gas-powered trash trucks, and UPS (UPS) just announced a new order for 300 new CNG vehicles. Pickens’ CLNE fuel will fill the tanks of many of these vehicles. Pickens is also invested heavily in Westport Innovations (WPIVF.PK), a Vancouver company that makes “proprietary solutions” allowing engines to operate on clean-burning fuels such as CLNE’s compressed natural gas [CNG] and liquefied natural gas [LNG], as well as hydrogen and biofuels such as landfill gas.
Buick currently produces natural gas engines
The technology is there. Will our government approve selling natural gas at Speedway?? Oil investors will say NO!
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/pic-gm43liter.gif)
* Designed for gasoline, propane, and natural gas fuel.
* World-class engine sealing system for superior leak protection.
* Roller valve lifters and roller rocker arms for reduced friction and improved fuel economy.
* Counter-rotating balance shaft for smooth performance and low noise.
* Nodular iron crankshaft for increased strength and durability.
* High Energy Ignition (HEI) distributor and coil are standard.
* Composite rocker arm cover and front cover for noise reduction.
* Intake manifold standard.
* Cast aluminum oil pan for increased strength and noise reduction.
* View General Motors Engines & Options
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Will our government approve selling natural gas at Speedway?? Oil investors will say NO!
The federal government is not restricting gas stations from selling CNG. Gas stations (outside of CA) are not selling it simply because it is not profitable yet.
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All of the buses in DC run on natural gas. It's a proven technology that is being implemented in Washington itself. :confused:
Now it's just a matter of getting it into the private sector on a large scale.
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things are getting better as far as stations. There are a lot more stations than people think but they are for the most part not advertised so people don't know about them. I think the biggest reason we are lagging is all the epa red tape that has been piled on to getting a gasoline engine converted to natural gas. It is ridiculous that they are requiring them to be OBDII emissions compliant which drives the cost of certification through the roof, when nat gas burn way cleaner than gasoline even without all the emissions crap on them. It costs about $100,000 per engine per model year to be certified which is ridiculous if you ask me. Here is a pretty good site with lots of info and resources if you guys are interested in CNG. IT has a forum and tools to find CNG stations and prices. http://cngchat.com/
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I thought in general natural gas engines run way cleaner than gasoline?????
They are already looking to tap in out pocket books?
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I thought in general natural gas engines run way cleaner than gasoline?????
They are already looking to tap in out pocket books?
That'd be a negatory. They are cleaner, but the cost effectiveness is a "no way in way in hell". I also wouldn't want a cylinder of compressed Natural Gas (Methane) in my trunk. Accident = Death.
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Maybe we can bring back the Pinto with CNG. Like The Hindenberg on wheels. :D
If they design the car with the frame protecting the CNG tank, it should be no less safe than having a tank of gasoline under your seat.
Having an accident severe enough to rupture the tank would mean you're already dead.
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Honda started selling natural gas cars in the U.S. this year.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/
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actually the gx has been around for quite a few years now but just getting press this year with the fuel prices up. Got to give it to Honda for being an innovator. I agree that i wouldn't want it in the trunk because it keeps it all contained and turns it into a big bomb, but if it is exterior and vents into open air it is actually very hard to ignite.
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The technology is there. Will our government approve selling natural gas at Speedway?? Oil investors will say NO!
Oil companies also tend to be ENERGY companies and do plenty of Natural Gas drilling. They won't be getting in the way of this.
A few months ago I saw that a backlog of over 300 customers for the Honda GX exists in Salt Lake City alone. SLC has a decent LNG network
Honda also started selling a Hydrogen fuel cell car in SoCal with a limited Hydrogen fuel station network. Times are changing, slowly, but changing none the less.
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Once they get the cooling problem solved in natural gas engines, they will be more popular.
Friend of mine rebuilds the engines in Sacramentos RT system. Heat stress is a problem. Makes those diesel CAT heads look long lived in comparison, and those crack if you look at em.
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actually the gx has been around for quite a few years now but just getting press this year with the fuel prices up. Got to give it to Honda for being an innovator. I agree that i wouldn't want it in the trunk because it keeps it all contained and turns it into a big bomb, but if it is exterior and vents into open air it is actually very hard to ignite.
Really? Maybe I misunderstood. I watched the race in Japan where Danica won and they announced during the race that the lap car (Honda) would be making its debut this year (2008) in the U.S.. Maybe there is also an Accord version coming?
Honda will also install a delivery station in your garage so you can pump your own fuel. Of course they make money on maintaining it for you. Thats something you havent seen since gasoline cars first came about.
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i beleive multiple nations in south america run on alternative fuels i pretty sure argentina has never ran on gas i will have to find out
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the GX i believe has been around since 98 but has just started to get noticed. The Phill system is good but if you have multiple cars or want to charge faster i guess there is a system that is made by a company that fuels Zamboni type machines that is more expensive but faster fueling. I really encourage anyone who is interested to check out cngchat.com as it has great info and great great links to info. One of the big sponsors in a dealer who sells GX's in California and regularly chats in the forum and answers peoples questions.
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I'm sorry, but drilling for natural gas will destroy the pristine environment of the caribou.
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I was reading an article in USA today the other week talking about natural gas cars and that it could be reasonably available at $1.30-$1.50 a gallon. But the article forgot to mention that these prices did not include any type of tax that were normally pay for gasoline. So add your 50 cents and you get about what we're paying at the pump now.
Long story short, I prefer the use economy gasoline cars for now until fuel cell vehicles can be brought into the main stream. The fewer major changes we make to the vehicle energy system, the better IMO.
Also, I'm in favor of having RPGs mounted to squad cars in order to permanently end people who text while driving. Talking on cell phones is bad, but texting is a whole new level of not watching what the @#$! you're doing.
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I was reading an article in USA today the other week talking about natural gas cars and that it could be reasonably available at $1.30-$1.50 a gallon. But the article forgot to mention that these prices did not include any type of tax that were normally pay for gasoline. So add your 50 cents and you get about what we're paying at the pump now.
I paid $1.53 for regular unleaded gasoline today before driving to the in-laws for Thanksgiving dinner. There is no real shortage of oil. There is only a market that is heavily manipulated by both the oil producers as well as by futures brokers. Oh, and don't forget that we would see gasoline well below $1 per gallon if our ever so wise governments (both State and Federal) didn't tax the ever loving heck out of a commodity that they know we (the consumers) are virtually forced to purchase to maintain our current way of life.
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Give me high-octane petrol or give me death!
To hell with gas.
No amount of money saved on fuel would warrant a gas system in my car.
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The difference is that this continent has huge Natural Gas resources. Where much of the oil produced is not as easy to make gasoline out of as the Light Arabian crude we import.
Pay them for imported oil, or use our own barely tapped resources.
Hmmm kind of a no brainer in my opinion.
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Yeah.... if you drive a heap of crap.
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I also wouldn't want a cylinder of compressed Natural Gas (Methane) in my trunk. Accident = Death.
Fuel cell cars will have a high pressure bottle of hydrogen aboard. High pressure translates into between 10,000 PSI and 15,000 PSI.
CNG bottles will be at a much, much lower pressure, typically in the 3,500 PSI range. Generally, CNG vehicles are considered less of a fire risk than those carrying liquid gasoline.
The drawback is that CNG will occupy a larger volume within the car to obtain the same range. Because CNG bottles cannot be shaped to fill voids like gas tanks can, they waste volume. These bottles are designed to survive extreme impacts.
Most designs have flow check valves on the outlet side of the bottle's pressure regulator to shut off the gas supply should a line downstream be cut and the flow of gas exceed normal rate. Minor leaks in the engine compartment are detected by methane sniffers, which then shut down the gas via a computer controlled solenoid valve.
My regards,
Widewing