Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: crazierthanu on November 26, 2008, 02:43:14 PM
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Hello It's me again, some of you may have remembered when I started a topic asking about f4u's and the troubles I'm having with them. I have a few more problems with them. I have trouble with consistency, I can't seem to make every sortie count like in other planes. I also can't figure out how to shake someone off my six! It seems like every time I get locked, I get killed.
Here are some films of me flying the f4u, I will have more to come:
http://www.mediafire.com/?pfi1c0ie2a2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?pfi1c0ie2a2)
http://www.mediafire.com/?0j1irycx02y (http://www.mediafire.com/?0j1irycx02y)
Thanks in advance! :aok
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You may not like what i'm going to tell you but you asked...
1) Beyond these comments I wont help you or anyone else flying F3 view in a dogfight (especially in a fighter).
2) You have a minimal understanding of ACM overall and 3D/out of plane maneuvering in particular (IMO) with no real manipulation of your lift vector, coordination of control surface input or throttle manipulation.
3) your predominant use of the F3 view robs you of any real perception of angular gain loss or AOT IMO and further errodes any chance for true progress.
4) No real use of throttle
Bottom line is simple. You've got minimal building blocks (from what I saw) and a lot of bad habits to break. The hog is a tremendous plane but requires a level of finesse and understanding of ACM you dont have yet. Not trying to bash you but just being honest. If i'm in the TA or DA i'll be happy to fly a few with you anytime...
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Thanks humble, critisism is ok, it doesn't hurt anyone :)
I would love to fly with you sometime, After all I'm only trying to learn. I'll hang around the TA for now, see what goes on there.
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omg stay away from F4U ! til it get remodel!
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You may not like what i'm going to tell you but you asked...
1) Beyond these comments I wont help you or anyone else flying F3 view in a dogfight (especially in a fighter).
2) You have a minimal understanding of ACM overall and 3D/out of plane maneuvering in particular (IMO) with no real manipulation of your lift vector, coordination of control surface input or throttle manipulation.
3) your predominant use of the F3 view robs you of any real perception of angular gain loss or AOT IMO and further errodes any chance for true progress.
4) No real use of throttle
Bottom line is simple. You've got minimal building blocks (from what I saw) and a lot of bad habits to break. The hog is a tremendous plane but requires a level of finesse and understanding of ACM you dont have yet. Not trying to bash you but just being honest. If i'm in the TA or DA i'll be happy to fly a few with you anytime...
Hes totaly right, to be honest, F3 is not going to work in the MA, so why use it in the DA? you should set your views so that you can see out of every nook and cranny, if you havn't already.
Your shot need to improve greatly, HOing is not the answer. 99% of the time you are going to get some damage from a HO. Could be a wing or a gun, but those are always useful tools. You didn't do to bad with a disadvantage, but no throttle control.
Not to be gloating but I've been able to kill F6's and F4Us in a 109G-6. Its all about the throttle control, and thats what gets me out of most fights.
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some good points made:
do not use F3 at all, it will just cause you a longer time to break bad habits
set your views ( head positions ) in each and every plane type ( then save them / make a back up copy and place on disc/cd )
fly any plane you desire. Noone here is an EXPERT and has REAL LIFE SEAT time to know what the damn flight model is like, and besides this is a game/ WWII combat flight sim. It is not a REAL LIFE Flight Simulator, one should learn how to use proper ACM tactics, and how to maximize thier abilities in the Flight Model HTC provides us, and if or when a flight model of any particular plane type changes or is tweaked, One should go back and figure the new changes out to still maximize the planes attributes and the players abilities in that particular plane.
making assanined remarks likeomg stay away from F4U ! til it get remodel!
are ridiculous and only shows one's ignorance..........if you have nothing useful to say, why even post?
and yes Bosco you are gloating :D but this thread was about someone needing help with the F4U , not your ability to kill F4U's with 109G6's!
best advice to crazierthanu, you should start with the fundamentals of BFM's , SA , and Energy Management Theory ( BFM = Basic Flight Maneuvers SA= Situational Awareness )
once you have these 3 things down, then sharpen your gunnery.........then you can apply what you learn to any plane type without hesitation
hope this helps
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That did help a lot tequila, I also have my views somewhat setup. (I haven't really took the time to set them up properly) I'll try to do that sometime tonight. I'll try to go to the trainers sites, netaces etc.
Thanks
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Don't kill steal and call out enemies on your friendly's six rather than just following them silently so your friendly makes better bait.
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A lot of initial reading will go a long way, too.
The trainer's site has great information: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/
There's basic air combat theory and maneuvering, as well as useful links to other sites with plane-specific information. If I am feeling like upping a plane that I'm not familiar with, I'll check out Soda's evaluation page (one of the links from the trainer's site). DocGonzo's performance comparison site is another good one when you want to compare specs for the various rides.
NetAces is packed with loads of goodies, too: http://www.netaces.org/
Lots of good theory. Definitely worth the read!
And any thread on this site with good films is worth analyzing in detail. I've learned a lot (for example) by watching Murdr's P38 films.
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Couple things I'd have done differently:
1) Altitude is life. You gave the Spit a run for his money, especially considering he had a 5000ft altitude advantage on you, but ideally, I don't give an opponent an advantage of FIVE feet if I can avoid it. Don't fly right into the fight. Get yourself some altitude. This is ESPECIALLY important in the Corsair, which neither accelerates at level flight nor climbs particularly well. 15,000ft is generally good for the Mains. 10k should be adequate most of the time in the DA, unless you're hunting Tempest dweebs, who hover around 20k. Some of the larger maps in the Mains have more territory between bases so the fights get pushed higher, cruise altitudes of 20-25k However most cases, 15k is sufficient.
2) You played right into the Spit's hands. There's only six aircraft I'd want to use against a Spitfire Mk.I in a low-speed turning fight on the deck: Hurricane Mk.I or IIc, F4F, FM-2, or either Zero variant.
There's two key points of preparation in a given match-up. Knowing your plane is only half the equation. You need to know your opponent.
The F4U is significantly faster at all altitudes, anywhere from 50-100mph in the 1A depending on the altitude. Additionally, the F4U-1A will actually out-accelerate the Spit I at any speed, and above 10,000ft will out-climb her as well. You're far more rugged, and much more heavily armed. Finally, high-speed maneuverability in the F4Us is nearly second to none, with only a few aircraft that can match.
Where the Spit I has the advantage is pure turning ability at low speed, and climbing ability under 10,000ft.
It's REAL tempting to get your flaps out in the F4U and start turning, however it's easy to get sucked in to a bad situation that way, as what happened to you. Eventually you probably would have had the Spit. Unfortunately, he had friends to bail him out of trouble (including one you should never, EVER try to turn with: the Zeke that finally got you). By then you were low and slow and commited to a 3 vs 1 fight against two opponents that could handily out-turn you, and a F4U-1C with energy to spare. You probably could have gotten away from the Spit I, but not the others.
The F4U can fight in the weeds at low speeds and it's good to know how to handle her in that situation, but she's best between 250-400mph, especially with altitude to work with. You want to keep her faster and use the vertical. The F4U doesn't have a spectacular rate of climb, but in a close fight that's less important than her ability to zoom. The F4U is a heavy plane with a ton of horsepower, so with enough speed she can pop up like a rocket and catch a lot of opponents by surprise. She also winds it up very quickly in a dive. Additionally, because she's so sturdily built she can attain some incredibly high dive speeds without breaking up, AND maintains control authority.
Try to avoid constantly turning on one plane. Use high and low yo-yos with lag pursuit: In other words, don't try to lead your opponent through his turn to get inside him. Let yourself fall behind, and use the vertical either above or below the plane to get inside him instead.
What I would have done when I picked up the Spit in that situation, was to go shallow nose-low and continued straight, full power with WEP to build speed. I already know the Spit's going to try to dive on me. I'll let him. I may use a shallow turn in one direction to take me back to friendly territory to avoid the dogpile you ended up in. It also helps me keep an eye on him. Diving does two things: It gives me more speed to work with, and gives me more time because as our airspeeds increase it will take the Spit longer to catch me. Also, if the Spit isn't paying attention I can force an easy overshoot if he doesn't rip his wings off trying to pull up. This may be ALL I need, as I may be able to generate enough speed the Spit has no hope of catching me, leaving me free to grab altitude and engage from a favorable position.
Typically I'll wait for my opponent to close within 1500yds, then execute a low yo-yo INTO my opponent. I pull through the bottom of my maneuver and enter a zoom climb to gain altitude, and pick up my opponent IMMEDIATELY. If I've forced the overshoot, all I need to do is roll over and can drop right on top of him for a shot. From there it's just gunnery. If he was careful of his airspeed and manages to pull up in time, I'll wait for him to reset, then level out and go back into a shallow dive again to regenerate airspeed, and repeat the process. Eventually I'll either neutralize his E state or work myself into a position of advantage, or I'll generate an opportunity to reverse him and get a shot.
For more specific tips on the F4Us, check out the AHWiki. There's some differences due to variance in top speed, climb, acceleration, etc, but what works in one will work in the others.
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and yes Bosco you are gloating :D but this thread was about someone needing help with the F4U , not your ability to kill F4U's with 109G6's!
Quiet TC :P :D
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Not to be gloating but I've been able to kill F6's and F4Us in a 109G-6.
Lol, I'll vouch for him there...
Ouch!
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thanks a lot guys, I have all of those sites under favorite's I'm going to read up on them now.