Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: aztec on October 16, 2000, 10:10:00 AM
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It seems I read recently that the availability of perk planes will be based on flying time.
I'm curious to know how the community feels about this.
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if they fly more they will use and loose the perks more. the total % time for perks should be approx same based on points accumulated.
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At first, I thought it *may* be a bad idea but alas, since everyone gets a perk plane, and perk plane points carry over from tour to tour, as well as the perk plane too(granted you don't lose the plane on a take off roll, death in combat, etc)...I think its a new idea that needs to be tested before complete evaluation is in order. I'm optimistic so I think that if it DOESN'T work, HTC would pull the concept...alot of folks are afraid that pilots that already have established themselves as a 'hot stick' to contend with will have even a further advantage...this is untrue...you can get a perk plane before he does if you fly more(even if you don't fly more, you STILL get one, just takes time, depending on YOUR schedule)...besides, if you meet up with a 'hot stick' in his perk plane, and you in your perk plane, he's still got the same odds of beating you when you were both in a (enter your plane type here).
So, nothing will really change with perk planes, what will change is, you'll have a reward after a certain amount of time, kinda like real war: time passes, new front line fighter is available.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 10-16-2000).]
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I think Perk Planes are a horrible idea. I pay the same amount as anyone else who flies here. Why should I be punished for flying less or because I suck?
A better solution to perk planes would be to have some controlled spawn rates - either a function of historical production rates or uberness.
Sour
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Originally posted by sourkraut:
I think Perk Planes are a horrible idea. I pay the same amount as anyone else who flies here. Why should I be punished for flying less or because I suck?
Sour
Sour, you still get a perk plane, it just may take you alittle longer, but by that time, the pilot that flys more may have already lost his perk plane.
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I asked HT awhile ago about the perk system and I'm sure he said that if you get killed it totally resets your points tally. I might be wrong but that seems to me that only the best will get the planes.
Nexx
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Originally posted by Replicant:
I asked HT awhile ago about the perk system and I'm sure he said that if you get killed it totally resets your points tally. I might be wrong but that seems to me that only the best will get the planes.
Nexx
You are correct sir.
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Hehe, can't wait for the "I was 32 points from ME262 and you HO'd me you bastard!" comments.
Is it true this is where the chute bonus points are going to be applied?
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Fatty
Fat Drunk Bastards (http://fdb.50megs.com)
"Quit cryin in yer beer, it'll make it go flat."
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I absolutely see no reason for perk planes. Why make it easier fore a good player to get kills on other players. If you can't fly much to stay in top "game the game" form you will be at even more of a disadvantage. Why should a player with limited time and or ability bother to stay in the arena with players who consistantly game the game to get and keep the perk planes? If you make it harder to kill the perk that just rewards those that game the game.
Either we all fly the same level of planes or there should be a seperate arena for the Uber Uber planes to be in. Come to think of it, I recall someone making other posts about the desirability of seperate arenas based on the era of planes. What a concept.
Mav
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Umm first of all being able to fly a perk plane won't require you to have alot of flying time, its dependent on points.
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How are the points aquired?
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
Umm first of all being able to fly a perk plane won't require you to have alot of flying time, its dependent on points.
And points are dependant on flying time..DUH!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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well yea but I'm sure k/d will also be a factor in getting perk.
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Nath-BDP,
If dying resets your perk points to 0, that is certainly going to mean that the best players will have the perks. If bailing counts as dying, I know that I will not ever have a perk. If bailing doesn't, expect to see chute killings skyrocket. And who could blame the chute killers? They would just be trying to protect themselves from potential enemy perks.
On the other hand, if it is simply measured by playing time, and dying doesn't reset the counter, then it would be fair. If you play 10 time as much as I do, you'd get 10 perks for every one that I got.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Did hi tech really say that your perk points reset on every death? hm I could see it if it reset when your perk plane is killed.
I will assume he is misquoted.
So much for gooning. So much for defending bases.
I personlly have never worried much about dying if it was in a good fight or to get the mission done. And I have always done well with points.
We should wait and see.
And as to flying more to get a perk plane. We should reason that if someone spends 200 hours on line in a month and gets to fly a perk plane 10% of them. That Someone who flies 50 hours will also get to earn one for 10% of the time. Yes he will have a perk plane but will also have to fly just as long per instance of getting a perk plane.
He will aslo see perkplanes against him that much more often in terms of total hours but probably simular in terms of % of hours.
The proposed system as I understand it will scale nicly between the 20 hour player and the 200 hour player I think. That was one of pyros criteria when he first mentioned it.
Now how long a given guy can keep his perk plane alive to reuse it..that is a different issue. But I dont think that people are complaining about that.
Expect the TA to be full of people trying new perkplanes as they are released....
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I don't mind the odd one or two perk planes but what will bother me is if we get quite a selection of perk planes because I feel that HTC time should be aiming at providing everyone with new planes and not just perks for the 'best pilots'. If they are working on perk planes then it means they are not working on the 'normal' planes... I would really love to see an early plane set, Hurricane, 109E, P40 etc... and also a more varied rotated terrain.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Nexx
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I will most likely use unperk planes even after perk planes come out...
until I get clobbered by a hord of perk planes or f4u1cs.
then I will grab an f4u4c and run up a rediculous 7-10kill/sortie repeatedly... blasting chogs to bits until I get bored of the total impunity in dogfights the airplane offers. then I will go fly the good old P-38 and blow up perk dweebs that are AFK (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Blah. I vehemently resist the perk idea.
There you are flying around in an arena that is relatively well balanced. In comes an über plane and ruins yer flight.
Due to the number of players, there'll always be some überplanes around.
I don't think I'll even use my perk points.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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1. You will only loose perk points when you die in a perk plane. Not sure how ditches and bails will effect the point's possibly a percentage of the planes value.
2. k/d will not be used to award point's it will be done more along the lines of fly more and kill more or damage more get more points. Each missions points will be modified by your missions outcome. And each kills points will be modified by plane type modifiers. I.E. worse plane kills better plane = more points than Visa versa.
I'm viewing the time frame of getting enof points to get a perk plane in the realm of 3 to 4 weeks in playing time.
Perk points are life time points, and will not reset with tours.
Now put you self in the position that you just spent 4 weeks getting enof points to go fly a 262. And if you die in that 262 it will take another 4 weeks to get enof points to fly it again. Do you think you will use it in a furball? or would you be more likely to take it out on occasion to show off your trophy?
Now put yourself in the roll of being attacked by a 262.
1st killing it will be worth more points than the standard planes.
2nd I can see people getting together and hunting that 262 just to spoil it's day.
We are also considering awarding points for to the hole country for war wins. This would require you be in that country for the last 24 hours.
We are also considering using the 1st tear, i.e. least inexpsensive planes , as a meens of side balancing, Enabling them for free to a side if they are to low on player counts.
HiTech
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Thanks for the clarification HiTech.
Given the amount I play, it would take me a LONG time to earn a perk. Especialy considering my lack of success lately. I can say with absolute certainty that I would NEVER select a Spitfire F.MkXIV, F.Mk21 or even a Seafire Mk47. They are all too easy to kill. I'm not good enough to have any confidence that I could fight in a Spit XIV and get back to base, there are already non-perk planes that can chase it down and kill it. I might consider taking the Spitfire MkXIV if the P-51D, P-51B, P-47D-30, P-47D-25, Bf109G-10 and Fw190D-9 were all perks as well. Barring that, I would always choose an Me262. At least then I know I have a shot at not just dieing and losing 3-4 weeks of work.
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 10-17-2000).]
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How do I feel about Perk Planes??.......GOOD if I have one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)....BAD if I don't. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Cobra
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Having read HT's explanation I find I have no reason to change my opinion. I will not have a perk plane ever under this set of guidelines. I do not fly enough to "earn" it and can see only those who do fly quite a bit will have them. These are the same folks who have learned all the "game the game" ricks already. Giving them a plane that lets them exploit it even more unbalances game play further.
Yes doing the BnZ slashing attack and running after the first pass means you "should" have a higher k/d ratio. Having a plane capable of more than 100mph over the previous fastest planes means you can do this with impunity. Once an enemies radar (HQ) is down it will be impossible to track the perk to it's roost to get them on landing as was done in RL. With the lanc out now, losing your HQ is ridiculously easy. One can do the job. Particularly as the laser like accuracy of the space shuttle bomb drop is still in effect. How many are going to jump in their limited "perk" 262 and go buff hunting to protect the dar against the buff "turbo lasers"?
Perk planes are a solution in search of a problem.
Mav
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Mav:" I do not fly enough to "earn" it"
Perk points carry over from tour to tour, you will eventually earn one.
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he he... thought of a 262 running low on fuel and being kilt by a 202 whilst on finals... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Nexx
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Mav:" I do not fly enough to "earn" it"
Perk points carry over from tour to tour, you will eventually earn one.
Ripsnort,
Getting a perk plane every third or fourth tour is of no use to me. Having to fly lesser capable planes against those who fly very often and earn perk planes frequently will insure I won't get a perk plane. You will have to fly in MA to get one I imagine.
If my $30.00 isn't good enough to allow me to fly the same planes in the limited time I have to play then there isn't much reason to worry about using any of them or to be in MA.
I would request an arena devoid of any perk planes, or where everyone gets them as they wish. Either this is a game that is equal to everyone or it is totally out of balance.
Mav
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"Perk Planes"?
No.
What an egoists dream that concept is.
There is now little or no flight simming available in the main arena and having guys flying around in super planes will bury the remains.
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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?
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I like the perk plane idea because its kind of like an OORPG where the lesser skilled people or people who don't invest alot of the time in the game gain levels or experienced slower than those who do spend alot of time in the game.
The best players will rise while the losers will perish. ;P
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
I like the perk plane idea because its kind of like an OORPG where the lesser skilled people or people who don't invest alot of the time in the game gain levels or experienced slower than those who do spend alot of time in the game.
The best players will rise while the losers will perish. ;P
So you want to reward the best players for having the ability to spend considerable time in the game. Nice. Now think how you would feel if you didn't have much time to spend in the game and had no chance against a more experianced player flying a plane you aren't allowed to fly. Kind of drops the enjoyment of the game a bit and encourages newbies to find another SIM / game.
Mav
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Maverick,
Nath-BDP is being facetious.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Hm, thanks for the explanation HT. Looks like there won't always be 1 or 2 überplanes on every flight then. Good news (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Heheheh I can already imagine: "NOOOOO I DISCOED JUST AS I HAD MY PERK PLANE!"
Heheheh, that will RULE (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Good idea about balancing out the force through allowing perk planes. I for one won't fight outnumbered forces if that happens (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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Hmmm Perk system.. Hmmm
I have generally no reason to doubt that HTC comes up with something good, but this one has made me wonder.
1: Because the Perk system is a solution of a gameplay problem, that comes from outside the gameplay. It has no connection to the other gameplay in the main arena, and there is a danger that the perk system will be felt like an unfair bureaucracy.
2: Because HTC IMHO try to solve complicated gameplay problem, with an even more complicated solution. I thought that programmers would try to avoid that kind of solutions.
(http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4865/stp_1.gif)
To illustrate what I mean I have included a drawing made by the Danish humourist Storm P. 1940 The drawing shows a system to help the doctor making the baby take his medicin. The doctor to the right says "Now!" into the microphone and a man cuts a string which starts the whole sequence.
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GrinBird
[This message has been edited by GrinBird (edited 10-18-2000).]
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I'm not a big fan of the perk plane idea. Limiting the planeset in any way will cause more problems than it solves. Keep it simple, keep it fair.
BTW.. resetting the perk plane points after a death in a perk plane is going to cause even more problems. Pick the perk plane that can run the fastest will be the strategy. BnZ will be the only safe reliable way of holding on to your perk plane. Only engaging when having a distinct advantage with your advantageous aircraft will be the only way to hold on to your perk plane. I'm sorry, but I see nothing fun about this idea.
AKDejaVu
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AKDejaVu,
Well said, clearer than I had said it.
That is what I was saying about taking the Me262 and never taking the Spitfire MkXIV.
Take the fastest aircraft and fly conservatively. Thats the only way to keep the perk.
Sisu
-Karnak
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I don't care about perk planes. I guess apathy is a feeling, isn't it?
Fury
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The arena will be mostly Perks vs Perks and Loser planes vs Loser planes... not so much of Perk vs Loser planes.
[This message has been edited by Nath-BDP (edited 10-18-2000).]
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I like the perkplane idea it would allow us to fly planes in the game that could be destableising if used in greater numbers,and allow the use of seemingly obsolescent aircraft in the same plane mix.Thus allowing a truly varied airplane mix to be used effectively by all sides. I also like the idea of working toward a goal and achieving a reward for your troubles. The little boy in me is still looking dreamily at photos of Me 262's and Ta 152's and ar 234's and the Volksjager and hoping I get to use theam in a virtual environment (for the adult know's I cant just have one in my living room),so what the hey I will wait to get a shot at one and be happy to do so.
Brady
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I would like to be able to try out some of the more exotic planes. The rolling plane set idea seems to have made the same problem as night time and gangbangs(people log off) So they are trying to be creative in ways to serriosly limit the number of times you will see these planes, while still making them generaly available. It should actually be memorable. Calling over channel 2 that you see a bearcat near F6...
GET THE BASTIGE!
Perk Hunt!
I kind of like the idea. I will have to learn to shoot again to take advantage but if they make it rare enought it could be quite cool.
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Originally posted by Pongo:
I would like to be able to try out some of the more exotic planes. The rolling plane set idea seems to have made the same problem as night time and gangbangs(people log off) So they are trying to be creative in ways to serriosly limit the number of times you will see these planes, while still making them generaly available. It should actually be memorable. Calling over channel 2 that you see a bearcat near F6...
GET THE BASTIGE!
Perk Hunt!
I kind of like the idea. I will have to learn to shoot again to take advantage but if they make it rare enought it could be quite cool.
EXACTLY PONGO! We should NEVER condemn a new idea that hasn't been 'load' tested yet...give it a try, then post results.
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We should NEVER condemn a new idea that hasn't been 'load' tested yet...give it a try, then post results.
Erm.. severely faulted logic. Why not just try anything then.. no matter how stupid?
Besides, this is a discussion on wether or not you think its a good idea. I seriously doubt any of it will stop its implimentation.
You must, however, agree that it is impossible for HTC to have considered all the ramifications of introducing perked planes. This type of discussion is meant to make sure they have considered at least as much as the participants.
As for the "perked planes vs perked planes" idea on how things would most likely go in the arena... dream on. You fly a plane with a distinct advantage against the same type of plane negating the distinct advantage?
That's like saying that people that hang out at 30k waiting to BnZ some unsuspecting victim would actually rather be engaging a co-alt con at 30k. Most would use that advantage against others... not wait until it is negated.
So.. as long as people aren't living under the fantasy that the perk planes will be primarily used against perk planes then fine. Just don't try to glamorize the nature of humans in combat. It seldomely lives up to expectations.
AKDejaVu
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So.. as long as people aren't living under the fantasy that the perk planes will be primarily used against
perk planes then fine. Just don't try to glamorize the nature of humans in combat. It seldomely lives up to
expectations.
Absolutely not, acutally the opposite will probably occur, two perk planes meet, do you fight or run away to save your bird for less inferior a/c? Probably the latter...
No different than it is now..lets say a Niki finds a A6M5, just put in "Perk" vs A6M5 rather than Niki vs A6m5. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Absolutely not, acutally the opposite will probably occur, two perk planes meet, do you fight or run away to save your bird for less inferior a/c? Probably the latter...
Ah.. now you are starting to catch on. And.. what will happen with this perk plane meets any plane that is in a somewhat equal starting position? Probably the latter. Basically, uberplanes will hang out waiting for the easy kills and not risking much else. Real fun.
No different than it is now..lets say a Niki finds a A6M5, just put in "Perk" vs A6M5 rather than Niki vs A6m5.
Erm.. wich aspect is no different? If it is no different.. then why do it?
How about this.. ITS VERY DIFFERENT. What happens when you engage an F4u-1C in an A6m5 and lose? You get another A6m5. What happens if you are flying the F4u-1C and lose? You get another F4u-1C. What happens when you engage either plane with a perk plane and lose? You lose the perk plane.
If you cannot see the difference, then there isn't much point in debating.
AKDejaVu
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AKDEJAVU,
I believe what you are refering to is "gaming the game".
Perk vehicles are tailor made for that type of player.
Mav
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<<edited for dumb comment>>
[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 10-19-2000).]
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Pongo! Talking about Bearcats... The Bearcat is a postwarplane it never saw action during WW2. Some time ago a guy asked for the Hurricane. He couldent understand why a plane that was so important for WW2 wasnt modelled in AcesHigh. Some guys answered him and said that they couldent see why we should have such a weak plane in AcesHigh. Actually I have seen more requests for postwarplanes than I have seen for earlywarplanes.. They forget that getting better and better planes wont make life in Main Arena easier, it will just cause a kind of inflation, because your opponents will fly the superplanes too. Thats exactly the main gameplay problem in AcesHigh, and the Perk system wont solve it.
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well I just like the bearcat I would like to play in it. I hope that a way can be found to allow it that doesnt wreck the game.
Im willing to give perking a chance even though my initial reaction was exactly like dejas.
But I am more open minded(impressionable)
I think that the training arena will be full of guys flying perk planes....
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If it is based on flying time, all you need to do is grab a B-17, fully fueled of course, and take off, then point it away from the map, set auto-pilot...then go to work, or run errands, etc. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sorry....but I am getting hooked on the idea of perk planes! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Ta-152....hmmmmm....yep!
IC
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How about if the uberest of planes are always available to everyone, but only at the most remote bases? You earn them by flying them 1/2 way across the map before you can do anything with them.
eskimo
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Ehn. The only complaint I have with the perk system is that it basically hoses the occational player.
Everyone should get enough perk points to fly an uber plane at least once every two weeks. No matter how badly they suck or how little they play.
I think it's an interesting idea to give out the perk planes only occationally, and it's interesting that flying a perk plane will actually earn you perk points slower than in another plane. But what worries me are the poor folks who just don't fly enough to get the points.
Still, I *am* very interested on how this is going to affect tactics.
Plus the chute shootees are really going to start howling (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) MWAHAHAHA <cough>
~Lemur
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Stop the perk project and build a decent rollin plane set. I cant imagine anything different for a good WWII air-combat simulation.
(http://web.tiscalinet.it/gatt/logo3.gif)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 12-21-2000).]
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I kind of like that Eskimo, would also help the losing side in a gangbang. Bombers would be a downside though since they take off the back base a lot already.
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I used to think perk planes were a bad idea... lately my thinking is that it'll mean more early war planes in the arena and that's a great idea. Flying 'uber' planes result in lower perk points..
Finally there is a reward for flying less 'uber' planes. I think we'll see more and more of the planeset being flown.. and fewer chogs, ponies, etc.
Besides,,, perk planes are not invincible.
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Gatt, go here:
http://flightsim.thrustmaster.com/articles/read.php3?id=130 (http://flightsim.thrustmaster.com/articles/read.php3?id=130)
and read this article. about 2/3rds of the way down Pyro describes the perk system which will HELP put people in the lesser used aircraft like 202's 109F's Spit V's etc.
Pyro also stats that once 1.05 is done they will be concentrating on adding aricraft; "For the next version we're really going to work hard on getting more planes into the game. We'll need some perk planes to go with the new system, but we have a huge number of planes to do to cover all the things people want to do, escpecially when it comes to events."
Now I hope this can satisfy you folks who have endlessly been insisting HTC is focusing ONLY on late war uber birds.
-Westy
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Thx Westy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif), but to be honest again, I'd like to see a/c of 1943 against a/c of 1943, then the same for 1944, then the same for 1945 and yes, even for a "1946?"
I'm very curious to see how the perk system will work but, IMHO, realism calls for a good rollin plane set, a balanced arena and a/c that really fought each other in the Real Thing.
I'm afraid, and I'd like to be wrong, that everything else will turn the MA into a "what-if?" environment. Yes, yes, I should not rant before seeing how it will work, but the Real Thing is very hard to beat.
I hope you'll be right and me wrong. To dismount the perk system and estinguish all the flames wont be easy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hi,
I'd like see the date threshold for perk planes lowered to some allies/axis equilibrium point, maybe fall '43.
Later planes / rare planes requires various perk points...not a lot for spring '44 planes...more for fall '44 etc and ultimate to '45 planes.
Or the perk plane values could be polularity driven as well. More people buy one drives for the plane...more it will cost later.
Just my 2 penniä.
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With all this hoopla about perk planes, real-life availability, and balance in the main arena, it gives me hope that the offline boxed sim will find a niche there.
Without the need for "game play balance", an offline boxed sim could offer the ability to use the "uber" planes without anyone squeaking about its "uberness".
The heated debate over the late war planes tells me that it will be impossible for us to fly late-war planes in a "hardcore" sim that's multiplayer.
We need another "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe"... hmm... I smell business opportunity... The flight sim biz needs a good shot in the arm right about now...
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Well, i personally love the idea of the "perk." First, you simply cannot add planes like the 262 to the plane set. Every one would fly them, call it 262 high. Ok, so how can we include planes such as these? PERK EM. The guys that dont fly much prolly dont care about the perk system and they dont care if they have to fight em, they just log on for an hour of 2 of fun. Besides, the perk system will justify the use of the ENTIRE plane set, want a chance to get that 262, learn a plane that no one is using..ie zeke, 202, p47...whatever is not popular. I am so tired of seeing the same planes nikis, chogs blah blah. I love the idea of getting rewarded for working som eone over in a plane that has half the guts the other joe is flying.
Also, HT mentioned "winning the war?" Just how does one country win the war??
Anyway, i love it...love it!...bring it on!
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Lava is right.
Perked planes will greatly widen up the range of airplanes that are worth modeling.
Right now, anything sub-standard to the three or four best airplanes are not worth adding to the game. Period. This is a FACT.
Look at the Zero or the C.202 for instance. Do they EVER get used?
You need a system that allows more range to it if we ever want to get anywhere from what we have now. We ARE stuck with 1944 airplanes if nothing is changed.
The perk plane system adds alot more advantages to the game than an Rolling Plane Set. You never have to take somebody's favorite plane away from them for weeks at a time like the RPS did for instance.
I would have liked the perk planes being one time use weapons, though. Even if you survive, any time you exit the field, you should loose the plane/points. It would be like buying a ticket for a super ride, but when its over...its over. It would also make those rearm/refuel points have a main arena use.
Hans.