Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Cobra on June 05, 2001, 02:01:00 PM
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Loose the Range Counter.
These weapons have their historical lethality. Kills happen quick in here because we automatically know the range, therefore, we automatically know our adjustment on our shots.
I don't advocate getting rid of the Icons. We need them, but we don't need the range counter.
For all those furballers out there, this would give you longer fights and alot more interesting fights as the shooting distances should get closer. And if not, well the odds of hitting at long range just got higher because you don't have that digital read out clicking off the ranges for you.
Hehe..a vote for no range counters is a vote for closer, longer-lasting knife fights!
Cobra
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It's a step in the right direction imo.
-Westy
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I posted before in MA... How about removing icons when the plane gets in the gunsight? LIke what happened with the 47D-11 this past release.
Is it any different than not having range? Nope.
-SW
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"Don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes!" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yep, be cool to have to wait until your gunsight was full of nothing but enemy plane, wingtip to wingtip..
What about making it a selectable icon option to start?
Along this line, I'd like to see a generic icon, say an asterisk, dangling above the plane until you are within visual identification range which would be longer for bombers and a shorter distance for ftrs.
Eagler
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Just losing the range counter (or it going off under a certain distance) would be a plus in my book. As far as the nme filling my windscreen, when the fights that close unless they go Boom I invariably end up getting a collision as the one winged plane or tailless A/C careens into me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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To me, as a trainer, this would make the arena yet more unfriendly to new users. How about a compromise, either:
A)A high realism arena (not feasible today)
B)instead of a 3 digit count down (ie. 449, 448, 447) have a single digit count down (400, 300, 200)
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I think the best option was actually designed by avionics designers in the USA!
If you ever played a modern jet sim, you know when you lock up a bandit, and he is in guns range, a small circle appears around him at around a mile and a half (remember modern guns have longer effective range than ww2 guns)
as the bandit gets closer, they dont give the distance in digits but rather make the circle around him shrink (ie at .75 miles distance wil be a half circle)-- at 0 distance the circle disappears because you have collided (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
something like this woudl be best. Mabye a bar under the con that shrunk with decreasing range, or a circle like mentioned above. i think we do need some type of distance reckoning because of lack of depth perception, but an analogue representation (since our eyes are analogue) would be much better than digital imo.
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Although I'd prefer all ENEMY icons gone (and knowing it wont happen...$#$@# dweebs, fork you to hell! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) I think it would be best if the icons:
1) Showed "what is seen" plane type. Aka, a 202 and a 205 would say "Machi", 152 and 190 would just say "190", etc.
2) NO LASERANGER. Instead put a "+" if you are gaining on the con and a "-" if you are losing ground to the con. Think of it as a redshift/blueshift kind of indicator.
Zigrat, that would still give people an idea of range, it doesnt take a genious to figure out that 900yds would be in the shrinking range bar.
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I support experimentation with icons.
I don't think it is currently feasible to get rid of them and I believe the constant yammering to do so hurts the case with HTC.
I DO think we should all get together and POLITELY and INTELLIGENTLY ask HTC to allow some testing of other methods.
Just my .02.
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Tac, i believe we need *some* indication of range due to the lack of depth perception with no range given at all beyond 1.5ksince farther than that is close to infinity given the spreado of your eyes and depth perception loses effectiveness.
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Yes zigrat, but at around d1.3 is when you see the shape of the plane coming in to you... take a few iconless fights (or drone hunting) and in no time you will be able to tell if its at d1.3 or at d800 or less.
But as it was said above, its worth experimentation.
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I think the my suggestion would be to start gradually. Make one relatively small change at a time and see how it goes.
Radical change will P.O. a lot of players and may well eliminate some good ideas that might have been successful had the process been advanced gradually.
As I've mentioned many times, there have been some really fine ideas in a lot of threads on this board. I hope we can give a few a try.
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IMO, the range counter is more about rate of closure than gunnery. I think we need it to compensate for the 2D display.
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<shrug> Not sure what to say. Good points all around, from the pro and con camps, but icons as they are need work. Something to make them less "in your face" obvious yet usable by all skill levels. And from what I've seen to date (in any sim/game)no one has the answer.
-westy
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How about Zig's idea of the circular range counter, but taken one step further.
The 'range dial' would fade into view depending on how long it was in sight. An icon for a distant aircraft would only 'fade in' to view if that view was held for some period of time, whilst the icons for closer aircraft would fade in much more quickly.
Lose sight of the con and the 'fade period' starts from scratch.
Oh wait a sec....... its already been done.
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Cruising the boards while you wait to respawn Jek?
Finish War and Peace already?
;)
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Spending most of my time in a Yak-9U without tracers enabled, I have little choice but to ensure that most of the target fills my screen before pulling the trigger - I'm trying hard to beat Cobra's 8-kill sortie in the yak :D which means I have to conserve that puny ammo load.
I agree with losing the range from icons - it will enhance play and make us all more aware of what our (and our opponents) planes will do.
The other side to this argument has merit, and I have to agree with popeye on this. While the graphics are outstanding in this game, they are not quite up to par with what we would see in real life. Without range indicator in icons, I have had a very difficult time determining whether an enemy is flying toward me or away from me - until it is less than 1k yards.
Zigrat - the reason you see the circle is because in jets you have the priviledge of obtaining missile lock on an enemy fighter. This idea would remove that much more realism from the game.
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Ok how about associating Icon mode with fighter rank...
If your rank is below 200, then icon ranges are disabled automatcially - you can't turn them on. Instead of plane type, all you get is a "ROOK", "BISHOP", or "KNIGHT" symbol over the plane. After all you don't need them - you're a bad prettythang.
If your rank is between 201 and 800, icons are as they are now - no change.
If your rank is 801 to 2000, you get the F-16 recticle around the enemy plane, with bullet dispersion funnel, and computer tracking pipper. When the pipper is over the target, the pipper flashes and an audio of a drill sergeant's voice screams in your ear "PULL THE F*CKING TRIGGER NOW, YOU POOR EXCUSE FOR A FU*CKING FLYBOY. STOP PLAYING PINKO COMMIE LOVE TAG WITH HIM AND KILL THAT MOFO" and the rant goes on until you kill the bandit.
Nexus :D
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I don't like WW2O's icons either. Still too easy to guage distance. Swapping a digital readout for a similar analog system just doesn't cut it. IMO of course.
- Westy
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Make icons a pre-flight selectable value. And then it affects your kill value or your perk score.
If you choose the "perk icons" mode, then all you get is id's for friendlies (only the id, no country icon), but for enemies you only get the country icon, and that at reduced range (3.0 instead of 6.0).
Then you tinker with the way scoring works. Icon kills iconless, gets 1/2 of kill value. Icon kills icon, gets 2/3rds kill value. Iconless kills icon, gets normal kill value. Iconless kills iconless, gets 1+1/3rd of kill value.
It gives players a chance to migrate and try it out for themselves. It's statable so HTC can figure out how popular icon changes are with the populace and work out how to proceed with broad-sweeping Main Arena changes.
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Kfs, you'd end up with people HAVING to use full icons because the other guy would have a HUGE advantage otherwise.
However, as someone in another thread suggested, it might be good to have NO ENEMY icons selectable before flight and have a perk boost on every kill... ONLY if the enemy con does NOT see the player's icon as well. So in essence playerA without enemy icons set would not see playerB's icon..and PlayerB would see all enemy icons except the ones of those who, like PlayerA, have that setting. That sounds mighty fair to me.
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Points = icon minus iconless divided by range multiplied by root of the inverse ratio plane perk....
Oh meegeesus me head hurts
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Nexus
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Well, the Air icons in WW2OL sure rock the world!
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Tac...
Interesting; that might make for a perplexing screenful tho. Hmm. Would you engage the uncertain dot yonder or the plane with the neon... Hrm... I'll have to think about that.
DmdNexus, obviously you have a problem with my posts (or me *shrug*). I suggest you put me on ignore.
K
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I think in the mixed arenas we fly in we'll always need an enemy icon, you'd never know if that 'Stang's on your side or not....
I agree we can loose the range info, but we'd still definatly need closure information, the "+/-" idea sounds good.
After all, there's no range info on ground targets, and we manage...
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take a look at my post in the GAMEPLAY forum.. THanks.. :p