Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: oTRALFZo on December 06, 2008, 10:35:35 AM
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take your pick:
1) bomb and bailers 2) ditching gvs on concrete when they hear your bombs or 3) that pony that kept trying to pick you and once you reverse him, he runs all the way home.
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1.
#3 is just tactics. Thats what the pony is made for
Fud "Gerd"
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#1 and only #1
I have no particular problem with anyone using his plane's advantage to prevent me from shooting him down. I may be upset that I don't get my kill, but that is only momentarily.
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#1 and #3, my distaste for the bomb and bail crowd is pretty self explanatory. The boom and run P-51 mentality (or 190D, or Typhoon, etc.) is a developmental dead end, it becomes a self fulfilling series of actions. A player cannot get better to the point where they can win the engagement if the first pass fails if they do not press the fight any further. And that annoys me because it doesn't make for very good game play for the community at large IMHO.
*edit* reread the OP and I misread the scenario, I thought he was describing the "one pass, haul ***" that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine lately. I'll have to mull #3 over a bit.
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1 and 3 are my most hated.
bomb and bail for obvious reasons, gamey and I hate it that I have upped to get to the fight only to have him bail out so he can get new ones and I waste my sortie. I guess you could call this more disappointment on my part than annoying.
the running pony because it seems that they would be just as happy running me out of gas than to actually fiight me because you know the moment you turn back he is coming back for another hot pass with the same running to follow. I have no problem fighting someone who comes in with advantage and keeps his speed up to press the fight but the running for home or until I turn is also disappointing.
but hey I can't control what others deem as fun, so I take my death or wasted sortie and take off from a different base and head for a different fight and stay away from such activities the best I can.
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#1 is annoying, but #3 bothers me the most, mainly because I know the 51 driver actually thinks hes doing a good job..
I had a situation like that the other day.. me, and a lone 51.. he was above me at about 18, I was in a jug at around 15.. he saw me started closing, so I turned into him.. sure enough he starts blasting away HO from about 1.5 out, I dive under it and start to turn around.. and.. he just keeps going.. at about 4.5 out I start to turn around to move on to bigger less retarded things.. nope.. here he comes again.. over and over this scenario played out.. till he followed me all the way to my base where he go picked by a high friendly over the base..
wasted my fuel, and my time.
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190Ds piss me off. :furious
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take your pick:
1) bomb and bailers 2) ditching gvs on concrete when they hear your bombs or 3) that pony that kept trying to pick you and once you reverse him, he runs all the way home.
1.) I don't hunt bombers that often, but it does annoy me
2.) I was in LW protecting a base from GVs in an A20, I dropped 2 bombs on a guy and both times he towered out, thus me not getting the kill. From there on out I strafed him before dropping a bomb, ensuring I get the kill. Then I got shot from 1K away when I was gaining alt, from a Wirble that spawned on top of the mountain on trinity.
3.) Get it a lot. I hate the fact when you chase someone and he is pulling away slowly, so you break off and head home. 2 minutes later you see the same guy 2K off your six, he waited for you to break off so he could get your six.
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take your pick:
1) bomb and bailers 2) ditching gvs on concrete when they hear your bombs or 3) that pony that kept trying to pick you and once you reverse him, he runs all the way home.
I actually seen a thread in the wishlist that goes along the lines of 1. But 3 is my choice.
How many times to you see a 47, 51, 38, screaming over your base drops ords or dar and bails,,, same difference, doesnt have to be a Bomber that bails, you see it all the time with fighters too, probabley more often.
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#1 is annoying, but #3 bothers me the most, mainly because I know the 51 driver actually thinks hes doing a good job..
I had a situation like that the other day.. me, and a lone 51.. he was above me at about 18, I was in a jug at around 15.. he saw me started closing, so I turned into him.. sure enough he starts blasting away HO from about 1.5 out, I dive under it and start to turn around.. and.. he just keeps going.. at about 4.5 out I start to turn around to move on to bigger less retarded things.. nope.. here he comes again.. over and over this scenario played out.. till he followed me all the way to my base where he go picked by a high friendly over the base..
wasted my fuel, and my time.
don't sweat the fuel thing. it's all ya can burn, for the low, and VERY reasonable price of only $14.95 a month. :aok
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3.) Get it a lot. I hate the fact when you chase someone and he is pulling away slowly, so you break off and head home. 2 minutes later you see the same guy 2K off your six, he waited for you to break off so he could get your six.
This tactic must be in some part of the manual that I dont know about because I see this alot lately. somehow this can go on for hours if you let it. it just cracks me up with all the confidence they have when theyre at the advantage, but run like a schoolgirl who just seen a spider when you start to engage them.
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This tactic must be in some part of the manual that I dont know about because I see this alot lately. somehow this can go on for hours if you let it. it just cracks me up with all the confidence they have when theyre at the advantage, but run like a schoolgirl who just seen a spider when you start to engage them.
Pretty much. It's rinse and repeat basically. You break off, they turn around and chase you. you turn around and merge, they run home. you break off, etc etc.
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#4 clueless Typh pilots
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#1 only.
#2 is easily defeated if you bomb the gv hangars first.
#3 is easily defeated if you fly a fast aircraft, e.g. 190D-9, La-7, 109K-4, Typhoon.
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Yep #1 :salute
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All of the above :salute
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#1. I've stopped upping to follow BUFFS....they've already dropped ords. If they have a good gunner, they'll stay.. bad for business. If they're bad, they'll just bail. Bad for business.
If you want to complain about something BUFF related, complain about getting hit and downed at 1.5K and higher by a laser guided .50 cal round. It's a travesty that there's people hitting and killing fighter aircraft this far out. The maximum effective range for bomber gunners in World War 2 was right around 500-600 yards. I'm routinely getting hit at TRIPLE that range on Aces High these days. I've taken to upping a B25 for BUFF intercept missions now.... sit at 2K and hit em with the 75mm HE.
#2. Simple fix. Don't bomb or attack a GV on pavement. Hit their hangars instead. It's not all about kills you know.
#3. Mustang tards have been irritating me with this same tactic for awhile. At least it is a tactic, however annoying it may be. The thing that really gets under my skin are the people you find off by themselves that won't engage in a one on one. The other day I run into a bogey that has 9K on me, and we're 2 sectors away from any bases or fights. He takes two passes BnZ....blows his E, then leaves. I mean, if you have absolutely no interest in learning and/or having any fun, by all means, continue to do this. It's pointless, as the only kills you will get are those clueless individuals that just run in a straight line for you. I ended up chasing this particular pilot for no more than 8 sectors, just because I had a KI84 with alot of fuel. He continued to look for only low alt cons he could dive on.... and miss...repeatedly. I got the kill when he ran out of fuel and ditched (i had sprinkled him with MG rounds on one occasion).
I'm sure we all remember those first few incredible fights we had with someone one on one, that started at 12 K and spiralled down to a treetop stall fight. I mean, this IS a game, and you don't get better at it by refusing to engage one on one. Cowardly play will get you nowhere near the same enjoyment of this prduct as well timed aggression.
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double post
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1.
#3 is just tactics. Thats what the pony is made for
Fud "Gerd"
So your saying that the P-51 is a one trick pony?
I've fought against a few guys in ponies who would probably voice a different opinion.
I've seen guys turn fight the hell out of those things.
Running is only one choice of many tactics that are available to 51 pilots.
Unfortunatly it seems to be the only tactic you see the majority use.
Its not only a shame to waste the planes available talents, but extremely annoying as well.
I find myself not playing the game as much anymore,because I'm tired of having to climb to 15k+ to be co- alt with the ever present pick and run ponies.
Its tough to get in a low to med. alt fight while all the while trying to avoid a barrage of 51 punks going for the easy kill.
And God forbid the 51 pilot should happen to see anyone co-alt with him, because then its just HO, run and climb,run and climb or just dive and run.
As much as I despise the P-51, I have to keep reminding myself, its not the plane, its the pilot.
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1
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All three are annoying and in that order.
I hate 190's too Btw. They Climb up, get some speed, dive in for the head on hit or miss and run away. No matter what alt they are at, once you get near them they always dive for the deck. If you get close enough to them they'll start stirring that stick up. I just hate em :mad: :lol
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So your saying that the P-51 is a one trick pony?
I've fought against a few guys in ponies who would probably voice a different opinion.
I've seen guys turn fight the hell out of those things.
Running is only one choice of many tactics that are available to 51 pilots.
Unfortunatly it seems to be the only tactic you see the majority use.
Its not only a shame to waste the planes available talents, but extremely annoying as well.
I find myself not playing the game as much anymore,because I'm tired of having to climb to 15k+ to be co- alt with the ever present pick and run ponies.
Its tough to get in a low to med. alt fight while all the while trying to avoid a barrage of 51 punks going for the easy kill.
And God forbid the 51 pilot should happen to see anyone co-alt with him, because then its just HO, run and climb,run and climb or just dive and run.
As much as I despise the P-51, I have to keep reminding myself, its not the plane, its the pilot.
I completly agree. a squaddie of mine nailed it when he said ponies are alot of fun to fight, but its the lamest thing to chase.
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I completly agree. a squaddie of mine nailed it when he said ponies are alot of fun to fight, but its the lamest thing to chase.
Lamer than La-7's, 190D-9's, 109K-4's, and Typhoons? Hmm me thinks you're just sour grapes because you've been killed one two many times by a Mustang while you're probably flying a Spit XVI.
I'll tell what's even more lame and skill-less, guys in Spit XVI's not knowing how to turn their advantage in a Spit to a killing shot on a Mustang who's faster. It doesn't matter that you can reverse' em. That doesn't take any skill. What matters is reversing them in a manner that doesn't let them get away. Quit whining that the Mustang driver has no skills when it's the angle pilot's lack of skill in not being able to kill something faster than it.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Lamer than La-7's, 190D-9's, 109K-4's, and Typhoons? Hmm me thinks you're just sour grapes because you've been killed one two many times by a Mustang while you're probably flying a Spit XVI.
I'll tell what's even more lame and skill-less, guys in Spit XVI's not knowing how to turn their advantage in a Spit to a killing shot on a Mustang who's faster. It doesn't matter that you can reverse' em. That doesn't take any skill. What matters is reversing them in a manner that doesn't let them get away. Quit whining that the Mustang driver has no skills when it's the angle pilot's lack of skill in not being able to kill something faster than it.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Almost a requirement in the game now to fly a "fast" plane, so you have a chance to catch the "extending" Punk-51s.
Have you seen the way the vast majority flys the 51 in this game? And you can still call the LA-7 a lame plane. Thats pretty funny.
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take your pick:
1) bomb and bailers 2) ditching gvs on concrete when they hear your bombs or 3) that pony that kept trying to pick you and once you reverse him, he runs all the way home.
none of the above.
the guys that sink the fighter hangers, and drop the CV's, destroying a good furball. :D :rofl
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Almost a requirement in the game now to fly a "fast" plane, so you have a chance to catch the "extending" Punk-51s.
Have you seen the way the vast majority flys the 51 in this game? And you can still call the LA-7 a lame plane. Thats pretty funny.
i've kind of never flown the fast planes.......and got used to the guys that won't fight me when i'm in a zeek, hoicane, or spit. i'm used to them extending away, and expect it...i would too.
what DID surprise me though, was the last time i was on, i had 109's, and 190's that wouldn't engage me in my 38G, and p47's that readily did engage me.
i wish i could remember his name, 'cause thatr one jug driver was friggin incredible the way he maneuvered that beast.....at low speed too.
<<S>>
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Almost a requirement in the game now to fly a "fast" plane, so you have a chance to catch the "extending" Punk-51s.
Have you seen the way the vast majority flys the 51 in this game? And you can still call the LA-7 a lame plane. Thats pretty funny.
LOL - have you seen the vast majority of Spit dweebs and their ilk fliy in this game??? If you're having to fly a fast plane to catch an extending P-51 then that means you're even more skill-less because you have no idea how to kill a faster plane with a better turner. Anybody can turn a Spit XVI tighter than P-51 to force an overshoot. That takes no skill. What takes skill is to fly the Spit in a way to actually kill the faster plane.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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LOL - have you seen the vast majority of Spit dweebs and their ilk fliy in this game??? If you're having to fly a fast plane to catch an extending P-51 then that means you're even more skill-less because you have no idea how to kill a faster plane with a better turner. Anybody can turn a Spit XVI tighter than P-51 to force an overshoot. That takes no skill. What takes skill is to fly the Spit in a way to actually kill the faster plane.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
Please enlighten me on how someone would catch an "extending" punkstang without a "fast" plane.
How do you "fight" against a plane that is running away from you?
And though the Spit is sometimes thought to be a skill less plane, it pales in comparison to the way the Pony is flown.
At least when I see a Spit, I know there is a real good chance that I'm in for a fight.
However for the most part, when I see a P-51, I know I'll probably end up chasing him for at least a sector or two.
I'll say it again--the old cliche--its the pilot not the plane.
There are quite a few guys in here that can make both the Stang and the Spit "dance", but the majority of people fly them in easy mode.
They don't challenge the planes they are flying, or themselves.
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Lamer than La-7's, 190D-9's, 109K-4's, and Typhoons? Hmm me thinks you're just sour grapes because you've been killed one two many times by a Mustang while you're probably flying a Spit XVI.I'll tell what's even more lame and skill-less, guys in Spit XVI's not knowing how to turn their advantage in a Spit to a killing shot on a Mustang who's faster. It doesn't matter that you can reverse' em. That doesn't take any skill. What matters is reversing them in a manner that doesn't let them get away. Quit whining that the Mustang driver has no skills when it's the angle pilot's lack of skill in not being able to kill something faster than it.Tango, XO412th FS Braunco Mustangs
nope..Im spending more and more time being engaged by 16s than being in one. and I honestly cant even remember the last time flying one. I have no gripes being shot down by one but what Im seeing more often now is 1) the 18k pony diving in to a 3k furball, making a few passes, missing and at one hint of being in trouble, run all the way home or 2) the pony that flew 2 sectors to get to your base, but once they see your co-alt with them..they dive straight to the deck all the way back home. just stay and fight people...you get unlimited sorties for the low price of $14.95 a month..not per sortie
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Please enlighten me on how someone would catch an "extending" punkstang without a "fast" plane.
How do you "fight" against a plane that is running away from you?
And though the Spit is sometimes thought to be a skill less plane, it pales in comparison to the way the Pony is flown.
At least when I see a Spit, I know there is a real good chance that I'm in for a fight.
However for the most part, when I see a P-51, I know I'll probably end up chasing him for at least a sector or two.
I'll say it again--the old cliche--its the pilot not the plane.
There are quite a few guys in here that can make both the Stang and the Spit "dance", but the majority of people fly them in easy mode.
They don't challenge the planes they are flying, or themselves.
Couldnt of said it any better :aok :aok
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I think this sums up my thoughts on where this thread is going:
Anyone attempting to coerce other players into their style of gameplay is wrong to do so. It is one thing to offer up the different styles, but it is an entirely different matter when one attempts to force other players to play 'their' game.
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I completly agree. a squaddie of mine nailed it when he said ponies are alot of fun to fight, but its the lamest thing to chase.
I took a pony up once...for the heck of it. Just got done with a 5 kill 38 sortie and a 8 kill 4-Hog sortie so I figured I'd try it out. Was amazed at how incredibly easy it was to BnZ, turn fight, etc. Seems like one of the easiest planes to cruise around in and get a few kills. Landed with 6, not even a mark on me, despite my horrible aim.
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A well flown 51 is a scary thing to behold. If I know 0ldemon or Steve ar in the area for example I fear every 51 I see. If I see a poorly flown 51 (mine included) it's no different than any other plane. Same can be said for some of our 38 pilots as well.
If someone is gonna bail from his bombers let me get close enough for a proxie at least :devil
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A well flown 51 is a scary thing to behold. If I know 0ldemon or Steve ar in the area for example I fear every 51 I see. If I see a poorly flown 51 (mine included) it's no different than any other plane. Same can be said for some of our 38 pilots as well.
If someone is gonna bail from his bombers let me get close enough for a proxie at least :devil
is ren still around? if i recall, he was a killer in the ponyd......even at low speeds.
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Please enlighten me on how someone would catch an "extending" punkstang without a "fast" plane.
How do you "fight" against a plane that is running away from you?
Why should I even oblige? It proves folks like you don't know how to equalize or take away the E advantage of a faster plane and kill it before it can get away.
They don't challenge the planes they are flying, or themselves.
Thanks for demonstrating exactly how hypocritical your position is. How about applying the same standard and challenge yourself and your plane. Hey you want that extending Pony to turn around, make yourself an inviting target for it and then learn how to out fight and kill it before the Mustang can get away. It can be done just like the same way a savvy P-51 driver in disadvantage can turn the tables on a better turner for a kill if you know how to.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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I think this sums up my thoughts on where this thread is going:
SKUZZY quote ---- Anyone attempting to coerce other players into their style of gameplay is wrong to do so. It is one thing to offer up the different styles, but it is an entirely different matter when one attempts to force other players to play 'their' game.
Agreed.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Why should I even oblige? It proves folks like you don't know how to equalize or take away the E advantage of a faster plane and kill it before it can get away.
Thanks for demonstrating exactly how hypocritical your position is. How about applying the same standard and challenge yourself and your plane. Hey you want that extending Pony to turn around, make yourself an inviting target for it and then learn how to out fight and kill it before the Mustang can get away. It can be done just like the same way a savvy P-51 driver in disadvantage can turn the tables on a better turner for a kill if you know how to.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
There is a huge difference between a Pony pilot who knows his bird, and the Pony pilot who drops in from out of Icon range, is going so fast he misses the shot, goes back up at light speed out of Icon range and does it over and over again. That's just boring. That guy you can make miss over and over and over again. Because they don't know their bird, that's all they do.
The good Pony driver knows how to do more then that.
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Ya Gup, its my opinion that the better pony drivers have an advantage of sorts mainly due to the fact that so many pony pilots do hit and run, when the better ones turn back into you, it often comes as a surprise,and sometimes that second or two of not expecting it gives them the shot they need. I know..long sentence :)
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There is a huge difference between a Pony pilot who knows his bird, and the Pony pilot who drops in from out of Icon range, is going so fast he misses the shot, goes back up at light speed out of Icon range and does it over and over again. That's just boring. That guy you can make miss over and over and over again. Because they don't know their bird, that's all they do.
The good Pony driver knows how to do more then that.
Agreed corky.
But it's hypocritical to whine about lack of skill of the Pony pilot when a equally skill-less Spit or N1K pilot doesn't know how to kill P-51 pilot with higher speed. You can do a whole lot more in the Spit 16 than making a break turn. The sword cuts both ways. What all this boils down to is a stupid whine about someone not fighting the way you want them to.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustang
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I really don't mind when a plane faster than mine extends a distance so they can get enough space to 180 and go for another merge.
I do the same. I get to 2.5 or 3k just to give myself plenty of room to get level, guess what he (the plane I am merging with) is going to do, and act accordingly.
It's the planes who I am following thinking, "Alright, hes got space now... he's gotta turn around... nope, 2 more sectors to go I guess..." that tick me off the most because at that point they seldom turn around or they just go and find friends and THEN do a loop to come at me.
As for #1, I get really disappointed when I spot a box of bombers in my P47, because shooting at bombers in a P47 is almost too fun, they bail 2k away from me.
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some noob in spit 16, la or nik kills me and trash talks on 200 after wards.
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So your saying that the P-51 is a one trick pony?
I've fought against a few guys in ponies who would probably voice a different opinion.
I've seen guys turn fight the hell out of those things.
Running is only one choice of many tactics that are available to 51 pilots.
Unfortunatly it seems to be the only tactic you see the majority use.
Its not only a shame to waste the planes available talents, but extremely annoying as well.
I find myself not playing the game as much anymore,because I'm tired of having to climb to 15k+ to be co- alt with the ever present pick and run ponies.
Its tough to get in a low to med. alt fight while all the while trying to avoid a barrage of 51 punks going for the easy kill.
And God forbid the 51 pilot should happen to see anyone co-alt with him, because then its just HO, run and climb,run and climb or just dive and run.
As much as I despise the P-51, I have to keep reminding myself, its not the plane, its the pilot.
So, you are saying that the pony should fly at 5-10 k where its performance suck?
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So, you are saying that the pony should fly at 5-10 k where its performance suck?
I don't think I ever said that.
At 5-10k it wouldn't be the plane that sucks, it would be the pilot.
Altitude doesn't matter as much as attitude.
I don't care if the plane is at 5k or 20k , the intention of the pilot would be more telling than the planes performance limits.
Some of the best fights I've ever had were against ponies(and others) about 2 ft. off the deck with my LA-7, turning like our lives depended on the outcome!! Some I've won, Some I've got my donut kicked.
Either way it didn't matter, had alot of fun.
The point is--we engaged in aerial combat in totaly different planes, each with its own disadvantages, and win or lose we both came away with a sense of satisfation you couldn't possibly get from simply running away and maybe landing an easy kill or 2.
No one could possibly tell me with a straight face that the P-51 is strictly a "gun and run" plane.
A plane with such a legendary reputation couldn't possibly be that one dimensional.
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#1
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Bomb and baling Lanc-stukas. Last night we ran a GV mission and up came heavy 17s, 24s, and Lanc-stukas. They didnt stop the mission, instead some good GV'ing on the Bish side did before we were able to grab the town. But still to see these heavy 4 engined bombers being flown like that, and then bailed from, is as gamey and disgusting a thing as is in this game.
The B-25Hs and IL-2s that upped against us I can admire. The Jabo dropping bombs on us I can admire. The tanker who out shot me I can admire. But the characters that fly heavies like that, and then bail to upp more, need a good cleansing with a personal hygiene product. I wish Aces High would re-write the code for these heavy bombers. To see them disrespected, dive bombing and bailing like that, really takes away from the game. At least for me it does, and after such gamey nonsense I dont even feel like upping tanks again.
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take your pick:
1) bomb and bailers 2) ditching gvs on concrete when they hear your bombs or 3) that pony that kept trying to pick you and once you reverse him, he runs all the way home.
4) Whining oreos
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4. The whiners that cry "If you fly plane X you are a no skilled, easymode, pick dweeb." Fly a man's plane like plane X.".
Not so much annoying...but funny to laugh at.
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take your pick:
1) bomb and bailers 2) ditching gvs on concrete when they hear your bombs or 3) that pony that kept trying to pick you and once you reverse him, he runs all the way home.
Don't find any of those things annoying. 1.I will often ditch my buffs if there is no one around to play. If there is then great. 2. let the gvs ditch. I'm really after their base anyway and not particularly them. They are just getting out of the way as far as I am concerned. 3. Nothing corrects a mistake like E. You can't expect them to just give you the kill. If so then we'd all be flying zeros.
However, what I find annoying is people who fly 30k or sit in a manned ack preaching for hours (BTW I don't let that go on very long any more). That is easily fixed with squelch. So I guess that's not a problem either.
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gv's towering out. Then again, I hate most everything about this game, I'm just practicing my addiction.