Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: discod on September 04, 2001, 05:15:00 AM
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Can I disable this? I don't get it very often but sometimes when flying a Hog it is necessary to jink back and forth quickly while flying at near stall speeds with full flaps in order to avoid enemy fire...and there is nothing more frustrating than when the autopilot kicks in and levels my plane out and renders my joystick useless!! :mad: Same thing happens occasionally when I'm gunning in a bomber or gv and I'm shooting at multiple attacking planes.
If there is not a way to disable this "feature" then PLEASE add it.
If there is a way to disable this then will someone tell me how? Please please please?
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Level what???
You must have an improved code, mine simply freeze controls in whatever position my plane is at that time ;)
Perk Improved Code! :D
Cheers,
Pepe
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well EITHER recalibrate your joystick in AH or realise this is not a fair move.
If your joystick is calibrated and you are getting this warning in those slow climbs/stalls/turns with flaps, you are STICK STIRRING.
that precicely what its there to try to discourage.
at low speeds 'jinking' as you call it only works because from 1 jink move to the next the host repositions you on others FM. thats why it avoids the hits.
ive seen a lot of this flip flopping in scissors lately.As people bank left and right they jump slightly totally throwing off your aim.As far as im concerned its gaming the game,using net inconsistancies to avoid a loss.
I use hard rudder and aileron to slip if im slow and need to avoid but i certainly dont do fast left /right or up/down movement because quite simply in real life fast movements like that would do next to nothing to avoid fire. your aircraft would simply shudder as it struggles to maintain a smooth heading.at a low speed fast movements would take time to have an effect on your heading in an online game it makes you warp.At least thats what i perceive this stick stirring does.
My suggestion is stop doing it.accept that you have to wait for your aircraft to start a move.If you was in a real aircraft the stick would be heavy and throwing a stick from full deflection one side to the other would be a damn sight harder if not impossible.
as for the gunner position causing it too that to me seems like you have a badly calibrated joystick.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
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I got this same message the other day in a FW-190 in the CT and it's bugged me ever since. And to be clear, I was NOT stick stirring. I was watching a pretty Spitfire on my tail and would use my roll rate to try and keep his lift vector unaligned with mine and hoped he'd run out of bullets or something. However, after what seemed a while all of a sudden my FW-190 starts rolling like molasses and then I'm level in a gentle climb and I see the message "Do Not Move Your Controls...blah blah." I relaxed the joystick for what *seemed* many seconds which did nothing for me. Then I tried gently pushing down on the stick...up, left, right...NOTHING would break my joystick lock. To me, it seemed like forever and I was quite surprised it took this long but the Spitfire finally fired on me and I was dead. So does this joystick lock last all day or something?
However, I'll be clear that I was NOT stick stirring in this incident. In fact, had I been I would've probably tasted salt water because I was very low. If this is a fix for "stick stirring", it's certainly a really lousy one. I almost never fly LW but I realise I have one defense at a reduced speed in a 190 vs a Spit on my tail less than D500 and that is rolling. For a game that allows Spits and N1Ks to pull those kind of G's all day long without adverse affect, let others have their roll!
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
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I got this message exclusively at take-off in the Il-2. And the action witch is responsible for this is using the rudder to stay on the runway.
So if you see a Sailor who's drivin across the field in a zig-zag,he's not drunk ;) only his joystick.
Sailor
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"do not move your controlls so rapidly"
IS gay...
why limit the ability of another planes motion.
in reality,... if you need to do a full defection of your right aileron, then a snap into the left... YOU SHOULD NOT BE PENELIZED for this.
Please get rid of this anti-move-your-flight-controls-limiter-net-code-crap.
thanks.
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highflyer.. the move you describe would take ALOT longer to do in reality than it does in AH. Our little sticks with little springs can in no way represent the stick forces of reality (up to 50lbs and more)
Many of you have seen the "floppy" moves in the arena. Now imagine every time u saddle up on a guys 6, he starts flopping so fast from side to side that in reality would turn the pilot to mush....
Think for a moment before you make statements like these...
and don't forget ITS AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD!! the guy behind you or in front of you has the same restrictions.
An arena full of floppy fish stick stirrers would more than likely be the beginning of the end for this sim that many of us love.
SKurj
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: SKurj ]
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the move you describe would take ALOT longer to do in reality than it does in AH.
Does Patty Wagstaff sound familliar?
How about any other Hi performance aircraft(aka WWII aircraft in aces high) that has the ability to snap roll or deflect control surfaces and thus change attitude of flight in releation to air pressures over the deflective control surface at very rapid(far more than what is represented here) rates.
As far as 50 lbs of stick force,..... WHY?
pilots can use both hands, they can even use thier legs and push off of them to aid in a more agressive way(power) to push the stick at given moments within the flight.
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damper slider !!! modify your roll ,pitch damper , and you never see the msg again , sure controls become slow a litle, try find a compromise on seting
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hmm anyone know how much patty's plane weighs?
probably not much more than 1 wing of a P47 +)
SKurj
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Pattys planes max gross weight is 2095 lbs!
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i believe a p51 is 7000-12000lb depending on fuel/ammo/ordinance
kraquen
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Hmmm, Patty Wagstaff's stunt plane, an Extra 300S, was made to be unstable about all three axis. On purpose. Max weight is 2,095 lbs. Now a P-51B at normal loaded weight tips the scales at 9,800 lbs and was mostly stable. It had to be, since it was built in 1943! A P-47D-25RE runs up near 14,600 lbs. You honestly expect an aircraft weighing 5 times more than her's to be just as maneuverable? That Extra 300S has a wing loading of 18.15 lbs per square foot. But that thing doesn't have to worry about high speeds. The never exceed speed is 220 knots; a P-51B can hit 350 knots or more. It doesn't have a 2,000 horsepower engine, guns, ammunition, armor, and carries a grand total of 45 gallons of gas. A zero carries more gas than this!
Some wing loading figures (thanks to Juzz):
P-51B-5NA: 42.06 lbs/square foot
Ki-61-I-KAIc: 30.42 lbs/square foot
Extra 300S: 18.15 lbs/square foot
A6M5b: 26.38 lbs/square foot
P-47D25: 48.667 lbs/square foot
That Extra is nicely maneuverable, but you can't compare it against any WW2 A/C. It has nothing that qualifies it as combat capable, and even the .30 cal popguns could kill it.
http://www.extraflugzeugbau.com/frameset.htm (http://www.extraflugzeugbau.com/frameset.htm)
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think my maker wants to hear from me right now. I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/sig/veggie.gif)
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This topic has nothing to do with weight,nor manoverablity between aircraft, but rather air pressure applied to the deflected control surfaces. In wich case at the respective aircraft speed( wwii fighter wise) will still be within the amount of roll times the amount of x airspeed to give the degrees per second.
Now back to original topic, If 190 rolls to left with then a sudden opposing roll to the right... (in reality this event could occur almost instantly). In Aces you may wind up with "Stick Stir" detection, and only way to avoid this "stick Stir" is to then Dampen down the aircraft's natural ability to be very precise and hinder roll/opposing deflections of flight controls.
Why do that.
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Or we can remove it because it seems none of you advocating it's removal understand it.
It's there to prevent you from warping all over the place. This code didn't exist in early WB, and planes were untrackable when pilots would jerk the joystick around like it was their jimmy.
Fact of the matter is, I get that message only when I use rudder and shift it back and forth really quickly.
It measures how many times you reverse directions in your joystick or rudders in a specific time frame and how quickly. You can do it smoothly and quickly and then reverse and you won't get the message.
But if you just jerk it to the far left then far right the back again until you are sure the enemy can no longer hit your warping airplane, damn straight you will get that message.
It's there to deter 'people' from taking advantage of how slow the net is.
-SW
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believe me
the stick stir code is GREAT
its much better than that molasses handling at warbirds!
i have never gotten stick stir message unless i was doing smething funky...
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If HTC took that stir sticking code out, you'd hear nothing but complaints from people who "couldn't hit the stir stickin SOB in from of them"!
I really dont think ole Peggy would throw a wartime P-51 around the sky like she does the 300.
I got that message the other day and was shot down. So I tuned my JS alittle and Whaaa-Laaa!!
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Make sure you don't have the "poll with interupts" box checked on the Microsoft joystick setup. It took me several days of frustration to deal with that thing one time.
I do hate that floppy fishy thingy that I sometimes see however if possible I usually just fly my plane closer if possible and try to get a couple of accurate well-placed cannon hits on them. This has a tendency to degrade their capability when you shoot some key structures off the aircraft.
;)
I love this game...
Rogue out
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As someone who was here before the "anti-stick stirring" code was added, let me assure you that its a GOOD thing.
Usually if your getting that message and your not stirring the stick, your getting joystick spiking, which you need to fix anyways.
To be honest, I think its actually been toned back in the last version or two as can be seen by all the "floppy fish" manuevering I've seen lately.
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vv verm its definately happening a bit more lately.
ive had a few scissor fights lately where ive got right on the 6 position and fired with that thought 'got him' only to see it rise 5ft out of my bullets then drop back below my nose and as my bullets fly into nothing and i curse :) the damn plane starts its next scissor and i have to start all over again.
it really is infuriating! just glad it isnt a constant occourance :D
the code is a godsend if it has stopped the majority of stirrers.
btw highflyer remember the stick on your comp is not attached by wires/cables/rods to the ailerons etc on the aircraft in AH! if you was in the real thing it(your stick) would only go over from one side to the other as fast as the aircraft is capable of responding!. in a real aircraft you dont slam the stick left and right like a limp dick( :p) and expect instant reactions.Yes even the extra couldnt do it and this is where you have got the wrong idea.
[ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
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OK I have found that I can still "jink" <-- (manuver I learned froma real WWII fighter ace) and not get the annoying message. I just have to settle down a bit :D
After reading the posts about warping I can see the point of having it on the planes and it would probably be worse without it. Although I'm not sure it would be worse for me because for some reason every plane in the game bounces constantly. Probably my stupid modem connection.
It is extrememly frustrating to watch the plane on front of you jump up and down in my sight...I have to use "The Force" with every kill because aiming at a bouncy plane just wastes ammo. :mad:
Some day I'll get cable or DSL :D
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No one has touched upon how long this thing lasts. The two times I've encountered the message I did center the joystick for a moment and then attempted to regain control again and nothing. Gentle push down on joystick...up, left, right..nothing. The first time I encountered it I had no one on my tail and eventually got control back and survived. The 2nd time I had a Spitfire on my tail and after what seemed like minutes, I was finally shot down.
So how do you get OUT of the joystick lock once it occurs. Should it really last as long as it does?
-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
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It lasts for 15 seconds.
It will last longer if you keep getting the message.
When I get the message I press "x" and it goes into level flight.
Best you can do, better have some speed or else your an easy target now.
It all balances out-> You are an impossible target when you stick stir, but an extremely easy target when you lose your controls.
:)
-SW
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I think the same "logic" that this stick stir follows, nessesitating pilots to dumb down the effectiveness of their flight controls should be looked into for carrying over to the WARP factor that others see in everyday to day aces high activites.
Example: You are in a fight and the enemy is in your 12 oclock view and he Suddenly Warps... or for that matter FLOATS and winds up looking like a plane in Space. Well After that breif moment of Anti gravity that the "warping/about to disco" plane is doing, I suggest that instead of allowing the plane to SUDDENLY warp around to your 6, Keep him there flying straight and level. This can be a reflection of how to keep things on the same "logic" level as far as penalties are concerned.
Why put the pilot who was winning,.. at a disadvantage just because the person with either the slower/packet losing connection warps to thier 6.
Implement rules to keep All game Features level across the board.
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First, I've never even seen this message, having gone through a handful joysticks since beta. I have even tried to get this message with no success.
Second, I find it pretty hard to believe you would be able to throw around a cabled up wwii flight stick the way you can twist that thing around on your desk. Citing my experiences with point one, I am fairly certain of it if you're getting the joystick too rapid message (of course, there's always joystick spiking).
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I changed my stick scaling about 2 weeks ago and have gotten this message twice. Have to remember to hit "x" when this happens since one of those times I got "frozen" at a slight bank with nose down at low altitude right into the drink :). Lovely.
Not sure if I was guilty of "stirring" the stick or not during those times, but seeing how I haven't gotten this message before in the past until JS rescaling I'd have to think not.
I switched from a "log" scale to "linear" scale (going upward from 10 to 90). I also increased the damping and the deadband. Not sure which of these triggered the change. I'll play around with it a little and report back anything I find.
Tango, Corporal
-------------------------------------------
412 Braunco Mustang Fighter Squadron
(http://www.telusplanet.net/public/brandor/images/412.gif)
Of all the things in the world, ask not that events should happen as you will,
but let your will be that events should happen as they do, and you will have peace.
-------Epictetus, Roman Stoic Philosopher-------
[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: dtango ]
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The majority of warps seen in the arena are due to a problem on YOUR end. This is a long standing fact in mmopg's
SKurj
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Sorry, wrong.
bowser
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Wonder if connection spikes lead to percieved (by the system) stick stirring?
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If you got a MS stick uncheck the poll with interupts box. If you still get the message, and are not stick stiring then increase you deadband and dampening in AH settings. I used to get this message a lot when attempting scissers, and it turns out it was because my stick was spiking. Just increase Deadband, and dampening untill it goes away.
If you are stick stiring, this wont help as it takes away the stick stir affect altogether anyway ;)
[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: Booky ]
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I know what you mean, but it has dissappeared as quietely as it arrived.
I never stir the stick, i do controlled evasives, like it should and i used to get that D*** message too.
I hate it, gives a lot of trouble indeed.
It is one realism point less.
Hope it will be removed once.
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Damping and deadband are NOT a solution!!!!
It's a compromise and i realy don't like compromises. :)
I just hope that the connection speed can be infinite one day, so this stupid thing can be removed.
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Fastbikkel it really doesn't have anything to do with connection... If we remove the code, i can then do as many inputs as i wish in as small a time as I wish and make the aircraft behave completely unrealistically. Where as in a real aircraft Due to the amount of pressure required, amount of travel required I could in no way come close to the number of inputs...
SKurj
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Hmm I dont think FW190 had control wires or rods. I thought control surfaces were electrically operated in FW.