Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: 1701E on December 08, 2008, 07:49:42 PM
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Well, looking at possibly upgrading my GPU this holiday season, and was curious what would be best for around 150$ on the following PC.
Specs:
AMD Athlon X2 4850E 2.5GHz
Biostar NF61S-M2 TE Micro-ATX Motherboard (has 1 PCI-E x16, not 2.0)
2GB DDR2 PC-6400 Ram
630Watt PSU: with 19A on 12V1; 23A on 12V2. Has 1x 6-pin Power cord for GPU.
I currently have a GeForce 7900GS, and while it is good, it is a little low compared to the games I play. I can play all but one of my games on med/high with 25+ FR
Hope someone know what would be best. If there is nothing really worth it with this current set-up, I will keep looking at other upgrade options.
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I always consult Tomshardware since they have time to do nice benchmarks on video cards. Their monthly article here, recommends:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-graphics,2086.html
Best PCIe Card For $160:
Good 1920x1200 performance in most games, some with lowered detail
Radeon HD 4850 Codename: RV770
Process: 55 nm
Universal Shaders: 800
Texture Units: 40
ROPs: 16
Memory Bus: 256-bit
Core Speed MHz: 625
Memory Speed MHz: 993 (1,986 effective)
DirectX / Shader Model DX 10.1 / SM 4.0
The Radeon HD 4850 is the new people’s champion, instantly bringing yesterday’s $300 performance level down to the mainstream $160 price point. This card has a lot of potential when used on its own, and becomes a devastating force when paired with a second 4850 in a CrossFire configuration.
Best PCIe Card For $120: Tie Good 1600x1200 performance in most games; 1920x1200 in most titles with some lowered detail
Radeon HD 4830 Codename: RV770LE
Process: 55 nm
Universal Shaders: 640
Texture Units: 32
ROPs: 16
Memory Bus: 256-bit
Core Speed MHz: 575
Memory Speed MHz: 900 (1,800 effective)
DirectX / Shader Model DX 10.1 / SM 4.0
The new Radeon HD 4830 finally gives AMD something to compete against the legendary GeForce 8800 GT (as well as its identical sibling, the 9800 GT). Just as the 8800 GT is a crippled 8800 GTS, the Radeon HD 4830 is a crippled 4850. Both cards are excellent, while one winning over the other depends on the game or the image-quality settings.
GeForce 9800 GT 512 MB (aka GeForce 8800 GT 512 MB) Codename: G92
Process: 65 nm
Universal Shaders: 112
Texture Units: 56
ROPs: 16
Memory Bus: 256-bit
Core Speed MHz: 600
Memory Speed MHz: 900 (1,800 effective)
DirectX / Shader Model DX 10 / SM 4.0
While the Radeon HD 4830 offers the 8800/9800 GT its first competition in its price class, the card remains a strong contender and is still a viable option.
Note that it has been reported that some 9800 GTs have been found in the wild with 3-way SLI support.
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I'd go with an EVGA 9800 but I'm an Nvidia/EVGA guy. My 8800 GTS 512 runs consistantly at my monitor refresh rate. Find the one that fits your budget.
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The thing I wasn't sure about, was whether the PSU can power a newer GPU. Since I haven't money for a newer PSU as well, I am trying to keep it in the PSU limits.
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The thing I wasn't sure about, was whether the PSU can power a newer GPU. Since I haven't money for a newer PSU as well, I am trying to keep it in the PSU limits.
This is for the 9800 GTX: Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 24 Amps.
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Any of those cards should work on your PSU.
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The thing I wasn't sure about, was whether the PSU can power a newer GPU. Since I haven't money for a newer PSU as well, I am trying to keep it in the PSU limits.
Any of the eVGA 9 series will work and only need 1 6 pin connector. Do not use adaptors for this. IF your PSU does nto have a 6 pin look at different cards. And egle put the specs up for power
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Alright thanks for the help. Looking at a "GeForce 9800 GTX 512MB" for now.
Death you mentioned "and only need 1 6 pin connector. Do not use adaptors for this." Does that mean a card that says "Two 6-pin PCI Express supplementary power connectors -or- One 6-pin PCI Express and two 4-pin Molex supplementary power connectors" -- Only needs one 1-pin? The '-or- . . .' is for a BFG card, but the EVGA one says 2x 6-pins. If it does need 2x 6-pins, Would the adapter work?
And one final question, how would it affect a 'PCI-E x16 2.0 card' to be in a 'PCI-E x16 slot'?
I normally buy older, still good, parts so this takes so getting use to. :)
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Alright thanks for the help. Looking at a "GeForce 9800 GTX 512MB" for now.
Death you mentioned "and only need 1 6 pin connector. Do not use adaptors for this." Does that mean a card that says "Two 6-pin PCI Express supplementary power connectors -or- One 6-pin PCI Express and two 4-pin Molex supplementary power connectors" -- Only needs one 1-pin? The '-or- . . .' is for a BFG card, but the EVGA one says 2x 6-pins. If it does need 2x 6-pins, Would the adapter work?
And one final question, how would it affect a 'PCI-E x16 2.0 card' to be in a 'PCI-E x16 slot'?
I normally buy older, still good, parts so this takes so getting use to. :)
One 6-pin PCI Express and two 4-pin Molex supplementary power connectors was something they added when the PSU makers did not include 2 6 pins. Every support forum and card maker states this is temp at best if you use it. Some say the warranty is void if you now use them. The 9 series I looked at on eVGA site only needed 1 6 pin power connection. I have never used or installed one of these cards all I can do is look at what the manufacture states. eVGA "An available 6 pin PCI-E power connector (hard drive power dongle to PCI-E 6 pin adapter included with card)" but there is a little paper in the box that says basically get a power supply that has a 6 pin quickly.
So to answer your question yes if your PSU has one 6 pin and you have the available Molex for a "second" 6 pin it will power the card but is not recommended.
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IIRC I've only got one 6 pin connected to my 8800 and nothing else.
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IIRC I've only got one 6 pin connected to my 8800 and nothing else.
My 8800 has only 1 6pin PCI-E connector. I thought I remember when I was buying my card that the 8800 GTX required 2 6 pins as compared to 1 for my GTS
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As shown in this picture, the GTX requires two 6 pins.
(http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-143-137-06.jpg)
475W PCI Express-compliant system power supply with a combined 12V current rating of 26A or more***
Two 6-pin PCI Express supplementary power connectors -or- One 6-pin PCI Express and two 4-pin Molex supplementary power connectors
Minimum system power requirement based on a PC configured with an Intel Core2 Duo E4500 processor.
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Although the 9800GTX shows 2-6 pin molex, this is not the card for $150. The 9800GT is the card for appr. $130-175 depending on manufacturer. This is definitely the card you want and all have a 6 pin molex. Do not get hyped up on how "sleek" a card looks. Sometimes a card that does not look as "sleek" actually runs cooler. Your 630 W PSU will be ample for this card.
Here is one for $129.99
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/extremepcgear_2032_330251724.jpg)
http://www.xpcgear.com/n9800gtt2d512.html
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Although the 9800GTX shows 2-6 pin molex, this is not the card for $150. The 9800GT is the card for appr. $130-175 depending on manufacturer.
BFG 9800 GTX 512mb - $149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143137
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As shown in this picture, the GTX requires two 6 pins.
(http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-143-137-06.jpg)
Great deal Fulmar! for $150 but just found 1 for $109 new!!!!!! 9800GT. Can he get an adapter for another 6 pin molex?
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-512-P3-N975-AR-e-GeForce-512MB-Graphics/dp/B001DDYSLA/ref=sr_1_1/185-6398495-8208161?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228890931&sr=1-1
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Well, I am thinking about getting a GT version 9800 to avoid possible power troubles. Unless someone can confirm that 2x 4-pin molex to 6-pin would work reliably. If so I will go GTX.
Thanks for help, would be nice to have a GPU that is still sold.
Great deal Fulmar! for $150 but just found 1 for $109 new!!!!!! 9800GT. Can he get an adapter for another 6 pin molex?
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-512-P3-N975-AR-e-GeForce-512MB-Graphics/dp/B001DDYSLA/ref=sr_1_1/185-6398495-8208161?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228890931&sr=1-1
I do believe with that one, being a 9800 'GT', it only needs one 6-pin. The 9800 'GTX/GTX+' need 2x 6-pin connectors.
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(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/6pin_PCI.jpg)
all set! They are like $3
:aok
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Great deal Fulmar! for $150 but just found 1 for $109 new!!!!!! 9800GT. Can he get an adapter for another 6 pin molex?
http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-512-P3-N975-AR-e-GeForce-512MB-Graphics/dp/B001DDYSLA/ref=sr_1_1/185-6398495-8208161?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228890931&sr=1-1
Dr D you dont read whole threads do you? I stated that if the card has duel power source needs he can but should NOT use the adapator. eVGA warns about this. I have the warning for my 280 GTX (http://www.div-overlay.com/pwr_warn.jpg). It is the same warning for all their cards. He stated that he can not afford a new power supply so he needs a GPU needing only one power source. Again giving advice without knowledge of actually knowing what your talking about. Did you ask him how many fans, hard drives, DVD\CD's he has... not that I saw but yet you stated your power supply is good enough, what are you basing your judgement on? In reality it probably isnt if he has to power a card with two sources. The best place for him to shop is the makers website's, they state all requirements for their products. He can then purchase where he can get the best price for his budget. Please just because you have built a few systems for yourself and maybe friends, let the people whom actually are knowledgeable make suggestions.
Your acting like someone off the street put into the quarterback position for an NFL team, you in way over your head and your suggestions are always out of the pocket and in a scramble. David Letterman should start a new theme to the stupid pet tricks "Worst PC Answers" you could get the limelight then and be a guest star.
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Well after looking on Newegg I think I have found the one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130380
Good brand, good price, only 1 power pin needed, beats my 7900GS obviously. :D
How's it look Death? There something better for the budget?
If this one looks to be the best price/performance, then the buy button it shall be! Well, hopefully.
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Well after looking on Newegg I think I have found the one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130380
Good brand, good price, only 1 power pin needed, beats my 7900GS obviously. :D
How's it look Death? There something better for the budget?
If this one looks to be the best price/performance, then the buy button it shall be! Well, hopefully.
Check your power supply and make sure you have 26 amps on your 6pin rail, if so "Push that button"
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How do you know the 6-pin Rail? The 12V according to the site has 26A, according to the label has 12V1@19A and 12V2@23A. Not quite sure which to go by, but would it work, or shall I find a lower power card...or simply attempt to get extra cash and get a new PSU.
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How do you know the 6-pin Rail? The 12V according to the site has 26A, according to the label has 12V1@19A and 12V2@23A. Not quite sure which to go by, but would it work, or shall I find a lower power card...or simply attempt to get extra cash and get a new PSU.
Check private mail
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Really need to word replies Tildeath. Just state the fact pls. TY
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My bad posted wrong pic of adapter. The 9800GTX actually comes with 2 "Y" adapters. For $25 more you get the 9800GTX a better card than 9800GT/
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/PC-11607_L.jpg)
ACTUAL PHOTO OF SUPPLIES THAT COME WITH EVGA 9800GTX. If you read the notes on TILDEATHS reply, it says that the GTX260 comes with adapters but is not encouraged. The warranty will still be good seeing it comes with adapter! A single 9800GTX will run fine with 1 "Y" adapter and your 6 pin connector. I read multiple forums on this topic.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/9800gtx.jpg)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/9800GTXevga.jpg)
Your PSU should be fine but post the brand and model number. We can check if there has been tests published to check amps. You posted 1 rail has 23 amps but still post the make and model. Tildeath may be correct in GTX should have 26 amps but this is if you run SLI. If you do not overclock, your PSU should be good. Post model! High end Nvidea cards want 15 amps but they publish higher recommendations due to the suspect PSU's available. They hate rma's and lower end PSU's are not true to published specs/ Post model and is it SLI certified.
Nice thing about spending the $25 extra is a better card. This card is $150.
Here is link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130339
The 9800GTX is better. It has a 128 shader and the 9800GT only has 112 shader. Basically the 9800GT is an rebranded 8800GT but the 9800GT is slightly better. Also the core clock on the 9800GTX is way higher and better if you're gonna do some OC'n. Keep in mind, you may have less problems with newer drivers on GTX.
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170 great news!!! I called EGVA and they said your PSU will be fine for 9800GTX! I gave the tec the amps to your rails. I also had David Letterman call to comfirm this and David said GO BALL STATE!
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170 great news!!! I called EGVA and they said your PSU will be fine for 9800GTX! I gave the tec the amps to your rails. I also had David Letterman call to comfirm this and David said GO BALL STATE!
If the PSU would work was not the question DrD again you DID NOT READ... it was the fact of NOT USING the adaptor for a second power source. You are making my point exactly as stated in other posts in this thread... you DO NOT READ THE THREADS. Now if you want to call eVGA and talk to one of the engineers not a tech, they will take the call, you and you can tell them the TECH said the PSU is fine and use the adaptor to power the card. You can tell him he had no clue what he is doing becasue the TECH said it was ok. CLEARLY the time was taken to place a notice in the packaging stating "Use for Temp Only". Again he DOES NOT HAVE THE MONIES to replace the PSU also and get a new GPU.
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If the PSU would work was not the question DrD again you DID NOT READ... it was the fact of NOT USING the adaptor for a second power source. You are making my point exactly as stated in other posts in this thread... you DO NOT READ THE THREADS. Now if you want to call eVGA and talk to one of the engineers not a tech, they will take the call, you and you can tell them the TECH said the PSU is fine and use the adaptor to power the card. You can tell him he had no clue what he is doing becasue the TECH said it was ok. CLEARLY the time was taken to place a notice in the packaging stating "Use for Temp Only". Again he DOES NOT HAVE THE MONIES to replace the PSU also and get a new GPU.
Talking to the tech and engineers is like night a day. I called BFG once and they transferred me to a eng and its nice to be able to talk to someone who doesn't read off a script.
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...its nice to be able to talk to someone who doesn't read off a script.
Amen! I have too many stories of ignorant individuals who claimed they were there to help you and they didn't even bother listening to what you were telling them.
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Amen! I have too many stories of ignorant individuals who claimed they were there to help you and they didn't even bother listening to what you were telling them.
Especially with internet companies. I call them up and tell them first thing I tried all the normal procedures, shutdown computer, unplug modem, restart everything blah blah blah. No matter what, the first thing they tell me is exactly what I already did.
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Talking to the tech and engineers is like night a day. I called BFG once and they transferred me to a eng and its nice to be able to talk to someone who doesn't read off a script.
DrD tightens the noose around his neck with each post he makes. He is great at finding deals on newegg etc, heck I could find the guy a GPU, PSU combo for 39.99 will it work Nah. Seems he does not get the the idea of components working STABLE with each other. He shops price and says "This will work" sure if may work but is it stable, is it correct for the other components, less then 50 50 chance.
DrD I have a question... what certifications do you have, degrees, or on the job training to make suggestions. I could teach my 9 year old daughter to shop pricing not all that tough. I have a degree in Computer Science from University of Pittsburgh, degree in Computer Engineering from Carnegie Mellon University, Intel Certified Reseller (not just a reseller), Microsoft Certified Partner, MS Certified Solutions Provider, ASUS Certified reseller, Gigabyte Certified Reseller, Mushkin Certified, OCZ Certified. I have my MCSE, CNE etc etc... along with 27 years of system building, service, trouble shooting, network admin etc etc, what do you have an A+ cert at best or maybe a Newegg frequent best price shopper. Again know what you stating to someone before you say eVGA said this or _________ said that.
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The adapter will work fine. Thousands of 9800gtx users are using adapter. Oooh yes I forgot you built the 15th fastest computer in the world. Tildeath pls apply response to 170 not to me.
Simple Rephrase: I would not reccommend Y adapter.
I've read about 20 forums on the adapter and it works like a charm is what 3 fellas said. The others(many) said ummm..... works fine. The reason they do not recommend using the Y adapter is this. Some users who need the Y adapter DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER PSU for the card. They do not have enough power for the card so......By not recommending it, some will upgrade PSU with mult. 6 pin connectors. Manufacturers do not like RMA's and we established his PSU is sufficient. Again thousands of 9800GTX users are using the Y adapter with no problems. Have you or others fried a card with the adapter??? What is the amps that a 9800gtx runs on ?
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The adapter will work fine. Thousands of 9800gtx users are using adapter.
Again ignore the enclosed paper stating use the adaptor only for short time. Do you find ignorance is bliss?
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Again ignore the enclosed paper stating use the adaptor only for short time. Do you find ignorance is bliss?
Ignore there are 2 y adapters in box.
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:rofl
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See Rule #4
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Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl5gBJGnaXs
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How do you know the 6-pin Rail? The 12V according to the site has 26A, according to the label has 12V1@19A and 12V2@23A. Not quite sure which to go by, but would it work, or shall I find a lower power card...or simply attempt to get extra cash and get a new PSU.
Tildeath you are acting like I am saying you are wrong. I am simply stating the card will work with the adapter and his PSU. Again, if you do not agree, just post your reply saying you do not agree(see forum rules). I am trying to help 170 just like the forum rules read.
170 said, as you see in the quote, he may be able to scrape up the $ for a 2-6 pin PSU like you suggest. EVGA says it will work(they include it in the box). If you read the writing, it says the 8 pin adapter is for temporary use (Although it will work long term). Over half of the purchasers use the adapter and it works dandy! Until mass cards fail or the adapter catches on fire, it will be fine. It sounds like he will probably get a new PSU for safety precausions very soon anyway.
Again, for the $25 extra the GTX is a better card and I would recommend it using the adapter. It will work fine. No worries.
Good luck 170, whatever choice you make will be better than what you have.
DEATH
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I can drive my 93 octane car on 87. Doesn't mean its good for it.
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And there is a paper in the box that SAYS USE TEMP ONLY but again you dont read whats posted. YES there is an adaptor, YES someone could use it. BUt it is a TEMP use only and is NOT recommended for use but is a TEMP fix. He would have to get a new PSU which can not afford. I give up on you... your a perfect candidate for the this is your brain commercial
finally you broke down!
:aok
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/reech_r/smooch.jpg)
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I can drive my 93 octane car on 87. Doesn't mean its good for it.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/apples.jpg)
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/oranges.jpg)
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finally you broke down!
:aok
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/reech_r/smooch.jpg)
I have been saying that from the beginning... it could be used... again you didnt read all the posts which you are famous for.... it is not reccommended. So why tell someone its ok when it is not reccommended, makes no sense at all. Again making recommendations when your WRONG plain and simple. I can fit a square peg in a round hole but it does not fit or work right. That's what making recommendations to someone is about, whats right and stable not what will work.
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Simply because......Its ok. You kinda make a habit of making sure you are right which is commendable. If you would have read fully, he may buy a new PSU. This could have been a short version of a long forum. Although they put the temp thing on it.... Research showed me many of the users use the adapter with an adequate PSU! Again, I am not disagreeing with you that the 6 pin is the best method and the one I would choose. Just like when I said the 1 rail PSU was a real good buy. You immediately accused me of jumping ship. THE PSU WAS ACTUALLY A GREAT BUY! I believe 2 Rails are better. Some believe 1 rail is better but maybe the individual does not have the money like you or I so this could be a good thing.
In the case of 170, if he does not intend to buy a new PSU, the GT is the call. By his reply, it looks as if he can use the GTX!
Instead of being too smart, please embrace the possibility I may have a decent idea. We both had 2 ideas and its up to 170 to make his choice!
Death
:aok
:aok
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drdeathx, you seem to be the one that is argumentative in all of this. I do agree with tildeath, yes the Y adapter does work, but it should not be used permanently. The reason being that the power supply is not made to run it that way...hence the reason you need an adapter.... which will stress the power supply and shorten its life. So I guess the fuel analogy fits because if you use the wrong octane fuel for your car you will stress your engine shortening its life as well.
If you want to help, post your "guess" as to what you think will work, and stop arguing with those that are posting facts.
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Did I not see above 170 may get a new PSU ????
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Been busy with Finals so hard to get around to thread recently, so replies take a while.
Death I am having troubles coming up with money for anything recently, so a new PSU would require a lot of luck. However yes there is a chance I "may get" a new PSU, but chances are 1 to 1000.
That is the reason I initially stated I can not get a new PSU as it would require money I do not have.
I am thinking of getting the 9800GT as getting a GTX and new PSU would take much longer to get money for, and honestly I am fine with a GT.
As for the adapter I can say now from personal experience: it does not work well at all. I used it on a PSU that could handle the 7900, but had no 6-pin, and ended up killing the PSU and a few other parts went with it.
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I may have a quick and easy solution for you. No upgrade to PSU and a completely capable GPU that will work just fine with your current PSU and only one 6-pin connector.
I've had zero issue with it. I also upgraded from a 7900GS. 430W Antec Tru-Power Trio(I know it's not big a beefy, but it runs without a hitch, and when I do upgrade my PSU, the card will fly more than it already does).
edit: I botched the image link..here it is on Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150316
XFX 9800GT. I picked up a 22 inch widescreen monitor at the same time I ordered the GPU, runs everything I can throw at it. Runs a tad warm so just crank up the fan a bit and you're good to go. It is also relatively short compared to most of the EVGA cards. I was originally looking at the EVGA 9800 series, until I realized they were about 10.5 inches long on average. I forget exactly how long this one is..just longer than a PNY 7900GS by about .5 inches.
I'm no computer genius, although I've spent plenty of time tinkering with my current system and systems past. This card runs plenty stable and should be fine in your system. Tildeath's advice should be heeded though. This card also came with a Y adadpter, but the XFX installation card does -NOT- recommend using it, even as an adapter to a single 6-pin PCI-E connector.
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I am sure you will be happy with GT 170! Toof made a good point. Check your case size and the card you get to make sure it fits!!!! He said the EVGA may be larger than some. My GTX280 was a tight fit in my case and I use the Antec 900.
(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/AAdeath/900_q.jpg)
length evga 9800GT 9 inches
:aok