Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: -raxx- on October 23, 2000, 06:55:00 PM
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Ok, the subject line is just a troll to get your attention but there is a serious question behind it which may be a bug, (or bomb fusing just not correctly modelled yet).
I was trying to do a sneaky attack on field 3 from field 6 in a lancaster with about 10k of altitude. All three of the Knights online were defending field 2 while Rudedawg was banging away at field 3's buildings in a tank, (or maybe an ostwind). I splattered the fighter hanger and started to take out ammo bunkers, fuel bunkers and the remaining AAA emplacements. Rudedawg ditched and grabbed an M3 for what looked like a relatively simple capture, (FH and VH were dead at the time so what possible defenders could there be?).
As the M3 neared the map room from the end of the runway a b26 spawned, throttled up and taxied over the top of Rudedawg dropping bombs like confetti, (and killing Rudedawg in the process). It looked like about 8 craters were on the ground so I assumed they were 500lb bombs being dropped.
My initial problem, (other than Rudedawg and I testing the curse filter), was that the bomb fusing should have either:
1) failed to arm the bombs
2) destroyed the b26 as the first bomb hit the ground.
An alternative possibility is that the salvo setting is allowing all bombs in the salvo to be dropped even if the buff is destroyed in the process, (and what I saw was lag death of the B26 rather than it ramming a building).
As this is anecdotal all I can report is what I believe I saw. Does anyone else have a similar experience? Can HT or Pyro confirm that you suffer blast damage from your own bombs?
Or did I just see an example of pushing the sim to it's limits?
Spotcha in the Air
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I saw a Rook Lanc do this to a Ostwind last tour (I fly Rook). It took him a couple tries to get the guy, but the end result was a dead Osti and my kill was stolen. I'd grabbed a Panzer and rolled over to the far side of the field. I was in the process of lining up the shot when the Osti was killed.
Maybe bombs shouldn't be able to be dropped when the bomber is on the ground, the same as the turrets can't fire when the bomber is on the ground. Maybe the bombs should have to fall 500 or 1000 feet.
Sisu
-Karnak
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that sort of lag must been on purpose!
Easy to abuse, online your plane doesn't blow up on your bombs until host tells so..
..and of course lag can delay this.
Karnak,
Must been my Lancaster experiements and 4000lb (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I agree this is the height of dweebery and it should not be possible. I.e. real aircraft have a WoW (weight on wheels) sensor which prevents opening of bomb doors and/or weapons release when you are on the runway.
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Totally agree here. Like Hangtime said in his AAR "...he dropped a bomb and blew all three of the bombers waiting there. Lost 3 bombers to friendly fire and 1 C-47 to intentional DISCO". Allowing bombs to get dropped while you're on the ground is nuts. I like opening my bay doors on the re-arm pads. It lets the non-existant ground crew reload my bomber. But the ability to dump external ord while on the ground should be fixed.
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
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God, how I hated one thing.
It was so hard to find a freshly deacked field and start challenging your destiny when vulching in A-8.
Spit after Spit, Niki after Niki, I did not fear. Oh, how I felt hot there, I must have beaten half the RAF taking off.
But when B17 rolled on the vulched runway, I shivered. It was too late, he dropped bombs, way down few meters below him.
He died, I died, and many brave vulchers that joined the fest.
Fix it
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I died several times tonight fom a B26 that should have gone with me when his bombs dropped, asuming they should have armed at all at the low alt they were dropped from. Didn't feel right..
Ket
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Yeah, needs to be fixed. Bomber needs to get off its wheels to drop bombs. Would be even better if the bomb fusing prevented detonation below xxx feet.
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I wan't bombs with delay fuse (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
That'd be a nice surprise when things would blow up couple minutes after the pass..
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Heh, tell me about this one. Blew myself up on the runway yesterday when 'stick button spikes' (don't ask, I appear to have some hardware problems with my recently rebuilt machine) dropped 2000lbs of bombs off the bottom of my Typhoon as I was throttling up for takeoff.
I also managed to blow myself up while blowing up Bash's Panzer by stalling in the pull out at the end of my dive and ending up way too low when the bombs hit.
A delay between the bombs dropping and arming would be good in my book.
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A couple of days ago the Knits were trying to take a field. The VH and FHs were down and we were strafing the BH. As I was circling the field, I suddenly see what looks like a line of red ants marching out of the BH toward the map room.
A "defender" was continuously spawning a C47 in the BH and dropping troops to let them run to their own map room.
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Originally posted by -raxx-:
As the M3 neared the map room from the end of the runway a b26 spawned, throttled up and taxied over the top of Rudedawg dropping bombs like confetti, (and killing Rudedawg in the process).
That isn't right, but it sure is funny as hell (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I lmao sitting in my office picturing it in my head.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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I was trying to do a sneaky attack on field 3 from field 6 in a lancaster with about 10k of altitude. All three of the Knights online were defending field 2 while Rudedawg was banging away at field 3's buildings in a tank, (or maybe an ostwind).
Erm... so... just to get this straight.
You guys thought you could sneak a field away from a country that only had 3 players on-line. And.. you are accusing them of gaming the game?
Sigh.
AKDejaVu
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Mickey, a C47 spawning troops won't do anything other than make attacking/vulching aircraft expend their ammunition trying to straff them thinking that the airfield won't capture. I wouldn't worry about it.
Nexx
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Check Roster - only 3 knits on-line
Check Radar - Knits all defending A2
Spawn deisel tank that sneaks to base undected
<Attack base facilities with surface to air weapon>
1 Air support plane shows up
Ditch vehicle in enemy territory
Respawn with troop vehicle after being captured
Complain about how low other team sinks.
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AKDejaVu,
somehow you've taken this personally and you've gotten the wrong end of the stick. Karnak stated that a rook in a lancaster did the same thing. So this is obviously a flaw being exploited by more than one player/country. You are making a rather weak attempt to divert from the issue at hand because you appear to percive this as a personal attack on the Knights.
The issue is that bombs can be dropped at ground level from a bomber with apparently no effect on that aircraft. This is agreed to be unrealistic by the majority of the people relying to this thread.
Over the previous two hours the arena numbers dwindled down to 3 knights, 3 bishops and 8 rooks, (for some strange reason there are a lot of Kiwi's and Aussies who fly rook so it seems logical we'd outnumber other countries in our time zone). As usual Rookland was about as organised as an asylum low on tranquilizers and had been banging away at A2 for 90 minutes without result. I got pissed off at the lack of progress and attacked A3 at low altitude in a Lancaster while the cons were tied up at another field.
If you want to accuse me of gaming the game then I'm guilty. I'll climb higher, run away when outnumbered, sneak under radar in a C47 or a lancaster, make a head-on snap shot, gang bang, drag cons through AAA and attack undefended fields. I'll use an ostwind to destroy a Headquaters rather than a Panzer because the otswind will take it down and a panzer can't. I will use any and every means or advantage available to defend myself, attack another player or attack another country to the advantage of my own. But then that's the whole point of Aces High isn't it? To win?
What I object to is what is an obvious flaw in the game which allows a weapon system to be used unrealisticly without penalty to the player exploiting that flaw.
If Rudedawg was in an ostwind, (and he may very well have been in a panzer but since you weren't there and I didn't bother asking we will never know), and destroying the base then that may not be the primary purpose of the weapon but it can be used that way with a penalty. He's subject to counter fire for longer and has a weaker turret armour. Objectively an Ostwind could destroy a building but it takes longer and uses more ammunition. It may not have been designed to do that but it can carry out the task. A bomber can't drop bombs at ground level, (or even low level), without destroying itself.
If you want to start a seperate thread about gaming the game or gang banging then there's a button at the bottom of this web page marked "New Post". I suggest you start there and consider that those in glass houses should not throw stones.
One last question. Do you think bombers should be allowed to taxi along the runway dropping bombs to destroy ground vehicles without themsleves being destroyed?
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somehow you've taken this personally and you've gotten the wrong end of the stick. Karnak stated that a rook in a lancaster did the same thing. So this is obviously a flaw being exploited by more than one player/country. You are making a rather weak attempt to divert from the issue at hand because you appear to percive this as a personal attack on the Knights.
Erm.. I've flown for 3 different countries in the last 3 months. Our squad changes countries every tour to add a little variety.
As for taking it personal.. I am not. It wasn't me in the bomber.. you aren't attacking me or any of my squadies (that I know of).
The title of the thread implies that the person flying the bomber somehow "went low" in his particular move.
To be honest, he gamed the game much like you and the other individual did. Your cohort spent 20 minutes doing it and you have the gall to come in and criticize the other person that did it.
"How low will you go?" Puhleez.
The issue is that bombs can be dropped at ground level from a bomber with apparently no effect on that aircraft. This is agreed to be unrealistic by the majority of the people relying to this thread.
Never said it wasn't. What part about knowing exactly how many enemy are on-line, exactly where they are, knowing exactly where their hangars and defenses are, knowing exactly what you need to take down to capture the base, being able to take an air-field with 1 ground vehicle, or respawning after being captured IS realistic?
Pick and choose.. pick and choose. Someone is sinking low with his exploitation.. someone else is a victim inspite of his exploitation.
Hmmmmmm.
Over the previous two hours the arena numbers dwindled down to 3 knights, 3 bishops and 8 rooks, (for some strange reason there are a lot of Kiwi's and Aussies who fly rook so it seems logical we'd outnumber other countries in our time zone). As usual Rookland was about as organised as an asylum low on tranquilizers and had been banging away at A2 for 90 minutes without result. I got pissed off at the lack of progress and attacked A3 at low altitude in a Lancaster while the cons were tied up at another field.
Basically, you are getting defensive. What part of this justifies using the "low blow" title on the knit trying to defend his base(s) despite rediculous odds.
If you want to accuse me of gaming the game then I'm guilty. I'll climb higher, run away when outnumbered, sneak under radar in a C47 or a lancaster, make a head-on snap shot, gang bang, drag cons through AAA and attack undefended fields. I'll use an ostwind to destroy a Headquaters rather than a Panzer because the otswind will take it down and a panzer can't
Climbing higher: realistic
Running: realistic
sneaking under radar: realistic
Using ostwind to destroy radar: unrealistic (yet you justify?)
I will use any and every means or advantage available to defend myself, attack another player or attack another country to the advantage of my own.
You are perfectly welcome to use any and every means or advantage available to defend yourself, attack another player or attack another country to the advantage of your own. Just don't come on the bbs and complain that someone else is doing it too. Or that you just don't like the particular method someone else used. Its simply rediculous.
If Rudedawg was in an ostwind, (and he may very well have been in a panzer but since you weren't there and I didn't bother asking we will never know), and destroying the base then that may not be the primary purpose of the weapon but it can be used that way with a penalty. He's subject to counter fire for longer and has a weaker turret armour. Objectively an Ostwind could destroy a building but it takes longer and uses more ammunition. It may not have been designed to do that but it can carry out the task. A bomber can't drop bombs at ground level, (or even low level), without destroying itself.
I didn't criticize anyone for using an ostwind to attack a base. I do it all the time. I don't sit back and pretend its realistic though (isn't that the point of this thread.. realism?).
BTW.. there is only one risk when hitting a base with an ostwind... a panzer coming up. An Ostwind can take down a hangar in about half the time a panzer can.. and it can take down much more than a panzer can. If the VH is down.. there is nothing sacrificed by taking an ostwind.
If you want to start a seperate thread about gaming the game or gang banging then there's a button at the bottom of this web page marked "New Post". I suggest you start there and consider that those in glass houses should not throw stones.
I suggest you take your own advice. Its obvious you seem to have a certain set of rules as to what you believe makes the game realistic. Very little about that entire scenario was realistic.. yet you focus on one thing. Hmmmmm. What was that part about glass houses?
AKDejaVu
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This is a game.
Either kill all hangers or take a RISK on a sneak capture. (This means you might die.)
eskimo
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IMHO, Base capturing should be made harder so that the people would finally stick in their thick heads that teamwork is the key and not some soloing.
Too often one or two flakpanzers can take whole base down to their kneees and couple panzers opposing them doesn't do much harm - as 37mm tears them apart from 2.5k (buah)
As well some one lone bomber can disable whole base in couple passes and then fighters can use their guns to get acks out (or use flakpanzer)
V fields also are bit too easy to take - it just needs fighter that can take same way 3 V bases down easily. (acks and VHs)
I hope we really get harder field captures and people would learn something like teamwork.
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To be honest, he gamed the game much like you and the other individual did. Your cohort spent 20 minutes doing it and you have the gall to come in and criticize the other person that did it.
Umm.. so are you saying that if a particular country only has 3 online, they should somehow become immune from attack?
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What Eskimo said.
If theres a loophole, theres always someone to exploit it, and if you don't exploit it, someone else will.
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OK, ignoring the flamewar above, bombs dropped from a plane on the ground shouldn't have time to arm, and thus not explode.
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Rickenbacker (Ricken)
-ISAF-
the Independent Swedish Air Force
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I dont know if it has anything to do with the Main Arena, but I have killed myself before in a B17 by dropping bombs while I was sitting on the ground. It was in the Med terrain and myself and a couple of others (Sunchaser and Skipper) were doing a little formation flying in there one night. After we landed I had some problems with my brakes and ended up running into the fuel tanks...well to make a long story short I respawned and taxied over to them to take some screen shots and after they exited to tower I opened my bomb doors just for the hell of it and dropped a 500 lb bomb under me....next thing I know I am sitting in the tower.
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OK, ignoring the flamewar above
I strongly disagree with the title of this thread and its implications. Nobody was insulted. Nobody was "flamed".
bombs dropped from a plane on the ground shouldn't have time to arm, and thus not explode.
I don't disagree. I do believe there are several other things in this scenario that should be fixed first. To single out the bomb arming as an issue is somewhat rediculous.
AKDejaVu
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dejavu, The guy has a point. You can downplay it til your blue in the face, you can say other things need attnetion first, la-di-da, whatever. the fact remains this guy has made a valid point. Why not just say, "hey, good point, and also, this needs attention too..."
Seems you're always downplaying other peoples views, as if you're the ultimate authority on it all. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I do believe there are several other things in this scenario that should be fixed first. To single out the bomb arming as an issue is somewhat rediculous.
[/b]
Tell me, exactly what would be a *better* place to start fixing things in this scenario?
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It would have been an excellent point if that's all that were in this post.
The author went to all the trouble to point out that this unrealistic event deprived two individuals of a base capture. A base capture based on a large series of unrealistic events.
Once again.. look at the title of the thread.
You'll see me spout up whenever someone phrazes things in a manner that condemn other pilots for playing the game. When they dictate what plane should be flown, how it should be flown, what should be done with it, how it should be done, what should be done in the game, what should not be done in the game.
This was one of those threads. It started that way.. and it is finishing that way.
Just bring up the point of the bombs and leave it at that.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Once again.. look at the title of the thread.
You'll see me spout up whenever someone phrazes things in a manner that condemn other pilots for playing the game. When they dictate what plane should be flown, how it should be flown, what should be done with it, how it should be done, what should be done in the game, what should not be done in the game.
This was one of those threads. It started that way.. and it is finishing that way.
Just bring up the point of the bombs and leave it at that.
AKDejaVu
Thanks for making my point for me. The first two lines of this thread say...
Ok, the subject line is just a troll to get your attention but there is a serious question behind it which may be a bug, (or bomb fusing just not correctly modelled yet).
What do you get out of that? I'm very interested to hear.
It just seems picky for you to jump in so many threads and *correct* the guy who started it, as if its really thatimportant? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) You seem to feel passionate about every little thing in this game. That's your prerogative, My eyes just get sore reading through all the filler to the meat of the thread. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Sorry HBlair.. you are missing it.
Why the title?
Why the long story?
Oh, that's right, an apology and a wink lessen the impact.. of the blow.
If someone were to say "There is a bug, the bombs arm too soon" or "the bombs pickle even after the aircraft is destroyed" then it is a bug report or gameplay complaint. I don't participate.
When it is presented as something that is unrealistic at the tail end of a totally unrealistic situation, then I will point it out. I'm very consistant on this. Argue for realism or against it. Don't pick and chose.
It just seems picky for you to jump in so many threads and *correct* the guy who started it, as if its really thatimportant? You seem to feel passionate about every little thing in this game. That's your prerogative, My eyes just get sore reading through all the filler to the meat of the thread.
I can't help but find this statement to be anything but ironic in light of your contribution to this thread.
AKDejaVu
[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 11-05-2000).]
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I'm very consistant on this.
[/b]
That, You are. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)