Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Soda on October 24, 2000, 10:18:00 AM
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Last night I was playing AH as usual and decided to make a post about something that I'm sure just about everybody on AH has noticed. Maybe Pyro and HTC in general have something to say about it, maybe not. Nothing is meant as an attack on anyone, this is just a set of observations, but I'm sure eveyrone will still read a tonne into it.
To put this whole discussion into context here are my stats (subject to change of course) against many of the vehicles in AH. As of today my K/D vs planes(and one vehicle) stats are something like this (plane is enemy plane). I'd guess that 75% of all kills/deaths I'm in a Spit9.
<plane> <kills> <deaths>
P51 7 3
Spit9 13 4
C-Hog 17 12
N1K 12 5
Spit5 5 3
P38 8 2
Typhoon 9 3
190A5 1 1
P47-30 8 1
Yak 1 0
Ostwind 30 26
M16 4 2
C202, D-Hog, 109G10, 205, A8, La5, P47-25... all O and O. Anything with less than 3 total encounters is probably in this category too (Yak, 190's, Zero)
Now, I hate to point out the blatently obvious but look at the two most popular AH units I'm finding, the c-hog and Ostwind, by a landslide. Next would be the Spit9 and N1K while the P51, Typhoon, P47-30 and P38 round out the lineup. I have yet to see, or have seen only once or twice any other plane in AH... where are all the C205's? 10 different plane types I've only seen once, twice, or never this month. The La5's, D-Hogs? Yaks? P47-25s?... hey I'm sure everyone is seeing the same thing, lots and lots of N1K's, c-hogs (you just know they are), Spits and P51's flying around. Finding a P38 is almost a treat and finding a Yak in the MA is akin to finding 3 girls willing to threesome with you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Everyone is flying one of these planes most of the time (or a lot of people are). I've flown against bish, rook, and watched my other Knits. It's going around. The Quake type gameplay of the Ostwind and c-hog is very attractive, I've done it myself at times, I can't lie, but damn the MA is turning into a 3 plane race with a smattering of other people flying kites that they have personal attachment to. I'm a Spit guy myself so guilty like the rest.
Last night I got blasted a couple of times by C-Hogs... knew it from the coupl'a ping deaths. Got close enough to tell that they didn't have the big arrow on one wing. Spent most of those battles just trying to avoid the HO's that come time after time and ended up paying the price for it.. avoiding HO's costs energy yet as a C-Hog pilot it's the best option often (been there, done that).
So, my question/comment, is the MA turning into a 5 plane race (and one ground vehicle)? Facing endless C-hogs and Ostwinds just isn't that interesting. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I don't think that my gameplay is much different from the rest of you, is everyone seeing the same thing? What a terrible waste of flight models but if nobody is flying them then there must be a reason. They just aren't competitive against these 5 or so kites... does nobody care? Would only some superplane be fitting to add at this point or would it become another C202 that nobody flys after the first week or two. I hate seeing AH turn into a 20mm (since everything in the top 8 or so of the list except the P51's has at least a single 20mm) world.
Comments, make'm, I'm sure I'll get some "you're a whiner" comments. I bet the people that make those comments fly a lot of one of these planes though, not a C202... I'm just trying to make people aware so maybe it can help the game.
Soda.
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I agree with you. I was in an La-5 just west of V32 this morning when I met up with an N1K2. By the time we merged, and I pulled into a turn, he'd already reversed and was on my 6. I wish I'd taken film. It took me 5 seconds to reverse, in blackout, and he had already cranked 270 degrees and started firing on me.
Makes you wonder doesn't it?
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
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Originally posted by Soda:
is akin to finding 3 girls willing to threesome with you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Comments, make'm, I'm sure I'll get some "you're a whiner" comments.
Soda.
No comments other than it would actually be a "foursome" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Plus, that YAK encounter might have been me!
I do admit to flying the C Hog alot lately...that's because I never get above 5k looking for all those ostie's that are attacking an airbase.
Cobra
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Bah, your stats indicate your target preferences, nothing more. If you look for 'em, you will find 'em. In the text buffer lastnight, there were numerous people going "chog huntin'". AH stats show kills and deaths, not sorties flown per air frame.
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Flakbait maybe he started turning before you did?
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Apache,
I've never gone hunting for any one airframe in particular in the entire time I've played AH. I sometimes choose to attack one over another if I bump into 2, but 99 times in 100 I attack the one that is the most threat to me, a friendly, or to accomplish a mission. I've never gone "C-Hog hunting" for lack of a better description though I know that some people have.
Foursome... right, now I know why I've never managed to pull it off, wrong terminology (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Soda
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I always go for Chogs when in main, since they are easiest to shoot down once I panic them into diving or bleeding E.
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I guess I just don't see as many chogs as everyone else. I too, do not go looking for them nor do I target them as the biggest threat to me, that being the "George".
For example, lastnight at A22, in 1 sortie I shot down 1 chog, 2 P38's, 1 Spit9 and 1 George. Another sortie I shot down another chog and 1 P51. 2 hogs out of 7 contacts. BTW, I was in the Dhog.
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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WTG XO !!! Sorry, was watching MNF with 'the boys' last night.
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Aw shucks <blush> Just one of those nights when everything was clicking. 'Course I had my little <hehe, he hates when I say that> brother Comanche with me watchin' my back.
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I tend to hit N1K's first also, I find them the largest threat while C-Hogs are only slightly less.
<Apache quote>:
For example, lastnight at A22, in 1 sortie I shot down 1 chog, 2 P38's, 1 Spit9 and 1 George. Another sortie I shot down another chog and 1 P51. 2 hogs out of 7 contacts. BTW, I was in the Dhog.
<end quote>.
Yeah, but in those 7 kills, 4 of them were of the planes I mentioned as most common, and the other 3 were in the second most common group. 2 C-Hogs, 1 Spit, 1 N1K, 1 P51, and 2 P38's. I was over 22 last night also, saw the same thing, lots of those planes, almost nothing else. I got 5 kills over 22 last night, 2 C-Hogs, 2 N1K, and 1 Spit(a Spit5 mind you). This basically supports my theory. Over 5 last night I ran into, total, 4 N1K, 3 C-Hog and a P47-30. I did see a 190 but someone else shot it down and it spawned back as a Hog (not close enough to tell what variant but I'd bet I know). Had a Lanc mission I flew to 5, got chased down by 3 N1K and killed. It was like George'fest at 5 last night.
Soda
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Hi
Shut the hell up you whiner. Why dont you show mw some references and real figures that WW2 wasn't fought entirely my chogs, Nikis, and ostis? Ha! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I cant believe he attitide of some folks who refuse to acknowlege the simple fact that since 104 came out the use of nikis and chogs has skyrockted, and that its quite obvious that they have benifited more from the FM change than any other planes. Remember the c205? It was quite good as a turner before but now it cant turn as well anymore, so any of u chog cheerleaders can kiss my bellybutton if u say all planes benefited equally. Pyro, Hitech, YANKEE and all the good people running the company you cant become blind to this. I realize Im new here but the atmosphere in the MA now seems worse than ever before.
thanks GRUNHERZ
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<S> Soda,
I see what you are saying in terms of limited AC being used, however it is not limited to just the F4U1C. I haven't seen a P47D25 in a while as well. I did get an La5 the other night but they are few and far between. I saw alot of Zeke's at 22 lastnight but they were staying real low <I would have too>.
<S> Grunherz,
I cant believe he attitide of some folks who refuse to acknowlege the simple fact that since 104 came out the use of nikis and chogs has skyrockted, and that its quite obvious that they have benifited more from the FM change than any other planes.
Your data is from what source?
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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I saw a P47 last night too and almost got an erection from the thought of fighting something "new". Turned out that I shot it down while it wasn't looking, flying dead straight, climbing, and it was a new pilot. Total rounds expended, less than 20 cannon rounds. Talk about a downer.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Soda
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Ooooo... irrelevant stats time!
OK.. mine:
AKDejaVu has 6 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1D against the P-51D.
AKDejaVu has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the Bf 109G-10.
AKDejaVu has 10 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1D against the Spitfire Mk IX.
AKDejaVu has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the B-17G.
AKDejaVu has 5 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1D against the F4U-1C.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the Bf 109G-6.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the Bf 109G-2.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the Bf 109F-4.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the B-26B.
AKDejaVu has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the F4U-1D.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1D against the C.205.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the Fw 190A-8.
AKDejaVu has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the N1K2.
AKDejaVu has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the La-5FN.
AKDejaVu has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the C-47A.
AKDejaVu has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the SpitV.
AKDejaVu has 2 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1D against the P-38L.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the C.202.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time in the F4U-1D against the Typhoon IB
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the fw190A-5.
AKDejaVu has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the Yak-9U.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the A6M5b.
AKDejaVu has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the P-47-D30.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the P-47-D25.
AKDejaVu has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the Ju 88.
AKDejaVu has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the F4U-1D against the Lancaster III.
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What do these stats mean? Absolutely nothing. Just wanted to show I could take up space too.
Anyone else notice that the LW pilots seem to be hiding these days? If you can't win.. hide?
AKDejaVu
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OK... since I knew you were going to ask.. a few more:
AKDejaVu has 101 kills and has been killed 35 times in the Ostwind.
AKDejaVu has 14 kills and has been killed 4 times in the Ostwind against the F4U-1C.
AKDejaVu has 16 kills and has been killed 18 times in the Ostwind against the Panzer IV H.
AKDejaVu has 22 kills and has been killed 8 times in the Ostwind against the Ostwind.
AKDejaVu has 91 kills and has been killed 18 times in the Panzer IV H.
AKDejaVu has 0 kills and has been killed 2 times in the Panzer IV H against the F4U-1C.
AKDejaVu has 33 kills and has been killed 2 times in the Panzer IV H against the Ostwind.
AKDejaVu has 52 kills and has been killed 12 times in the Panzer IV H against the Panzer IV H.
more stats that mean absolutely nothing. I just love posting them.
AKDejaVu
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I've seen few Yaks..
and I think that Yak is one of the greatest fighters in AH.
Though, definetly not for them who can't hit without 1000 rounds.
I did once fight in C.202 though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) like that plane when opponent is not outrunning from it.
Actually got C.205 and F4u that ride (lol, f4u literally dove right in front of me and got one big burst of 12.7mm and 7.7mm)
So, I'd fly C.202 if it wouldn't be 90% of time outran by its opponents.. (as we know, only rare pilots stays in fight longer than couple turns if hes not super turner)
Avoiding HO necessarily doesn't use up E at all.
and yeah, i hate that super cannon plane dilemma also..
Hispanos are not only strong, but those are usually on planes which carries 4 of those.
190A8 usually makes me smile when I see one, because those surely won't do anything same that tiffie or hog C can do (or spit for that matter)
I'd like to see early war planes more, with less those annoying super cannons..
Ahh, would I like to have Hurri I with 8x.303 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Ju-88 A-4 would have a chance then, would be interesting too.
Or Emils with MG-FF cannons (with very low ammo count) and 7.92mm.. or perhaps early Franz.
Bf 109 F-1 with 15mm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (was it F-1?)
I must admit that I like Tiffie, which I think kind of dweebish when used air to air, but I love doing its main purpose; air to ground missions in it. (though, its not hard to find someone bouncing you and then end up killing him)
But I see time to time 109G10's flying all over...
Though, I like more of F4 and G2.
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LOL Deja!
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Funked, nope. I watched him fly past at close to 350mph, we were both at 12k. I started my turn still looking back, and switched to forward view about halfway through the turn. When I came out of blackout I looked up and he was right there. All told 5-7 seconds went by, and he was starting a left hand turn last I checked. I broke left into a climbing turn. He reversed 270 degrees in 5-7 seconds with near zero speed loss and almost had me.
I say 270 degrees because the factory, which was to my left, was under me after I came out of blackout. Plus he was starting a left turn. In order for him to come around like that, he had to have made a 270 degree turn. Or at least 180 degrees if he switched to a right turn. Our test offline shows the N1K2 only loses 50mph while pulling 6+ Gs around 180 arc.
Me thinks there's something funny going on here
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
[This message has been edited by flakbait (edited 10-24-2000).]
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AKDejavu, funny you posted all that since it only proves all the more the point of the thread even though I know that wasn't your purpose. Of the stats you wrote (and I like the D-Hog part):
Of your 36 total kills against fighters (took the bombers and goons out) you've got 24 of them against only 4 planes, the P51 (6), Spit9 (10), C-Hog (5), and N1K (3). Roughly 67% of your kills came from only 4 plane types. Throw in the P38 and you get another couple and bring that up to 72%.
Unless you're selective in looking for these planes it sure seems you see a lot of them... fact of the matter is by looking at your stats this tour you've failed to shoot down a single:
109G6, 109G2, 109F4, C205, 190A8, C202, Typhoon, 190A5, A6M5b or P47-D25.
You've only bagged a single La5... I haven't even seen one though... when one comes up I bet it's like dogs on fresh meat.
Either you aren't meeting these planes or your shooting eye is off.. I doubt the second issue. I know my stats are similar since not many people are flying them.
Soda
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He has been a nit. Nit has high concentration of LW fliers, so he hasn't met them as adversaries (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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You can read whatever you want into the stats. I have a large number of kills against spits. Other than that, there really isn't much of a statistical difference.
I've seen some of every aircraft that I haven't shot down. Zeeks and .202s are always low near their own fields. That is not a place I care to be. LA5s perform better below 15k. Once again.. not a situation I prefer to get into.
I like to stay high and engage when I have an advantage. I'll run, dive, drag or do whatever to avoid situations where I don't have the advantage.
Its easy to lose a N1k in a dive. Its easy to lose many planes in a dive. I do it all the time. Most of the planes are aircraft I cannot get my guns on in a tight 1:1 fight... so I avoid them if I can.
I've seen as many N1ks as anything. I've seen some Typhoons and LA5s. I've seen very few 190s. I've seen MANY 109s. Wether or not I've shot them down is not the issue.
The statistics mean nothing.. other than I'm a kickass F4u-1D pilot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
BTW.. I posted 1D stats because that's all I've flown against air targets. I have 2 sorties in a typhoon (a2g) and a few bomber missions.
AKDejaVu
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I fly the La5 A LOT, I've only met one in combat though. I find that you can often surprise people because they aren't aware of what the la5 is good at. (Or is TERRIBLE at. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ) I just avoid N1ks most of the time when I'm flying the la5, it's really a waste of time to try for them.
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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i think your stats are pretty much invalid then akdejavu after exaining your flyin style
flyin to live in the ma messes up scores because your opponents aren't doing the same..
below 15k a situation not to be in.. well thtas good if you are in a event flying to live against otherpilots flying to live, or in a 1 life scenario or in real life where everyone is flying to live, but otherwise it messes up statistics because of the different game play styles.
imo.
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I totally agree Zigrat. I said as much.
My statistics are not indicitave of anything but the results of my flying.
That is all.
It does not mean there were more spits up than F4u-1Cs or N1Ks or even 109s. It simply means that these were the easiest pilots for me to kill... not even planes.. but pilots.
Most of my engagements don't end in "Boy.. I'm glad he wasn't flying xx plane". Then end in "He woulda died doing that no matter what he was flying".
I don't have extraordinary ACM skills. I'd rather not put them up against everyone every time I go up in the arena.
AKDejaVu
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Originally posted by Fishu:
I've seen few Yaks..
and I think that Yak is one of the greatest fighters in AH.
I completly agree. In fact i'll go one better and say, the yak is the best plane in AH in terms of performance. It turns well enough, very fast, accelerates fast, climbs well, zooms well, dive is good, hi-speed handling is not too bad visibility aint too bad. It is the plane that scares me the most when i see one, that and the 109 G.
I dont fly it, or any cannon bird, that often cause im too used of the ROF of 50cals.
Originally posted by Fishu:
Ahh, would I like to have Hurri I with 8x.303 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Hurri II gets my vote.
All i see are Niks, spits, and chogs and the occasional 109, 190, or P51. I cant remember the last time i saw a Jug.
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Overlord Spatula
Real men don't need no stinkin cannons
(http://www.spatula.co.nz/aceshigh/spatula_sig1.jpg)
=357th Pony Express=
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 10-25-2000).]
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Swager has 6 kills and has been killed 4 times in the Bf109 F-4.
The 109F-4 is out there, ya just gota find it!! Tuesday night I had a three kill sortie in it! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Too bad it is made of paper!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Swager,
You might be out there but is there anyone else? Just seems to be a lot of everyone flying C-Hogs and N1K's these days. I admire people who hang with something that makes the fight more of a challenge like a 109F4, I was up in a Spit5 for a big part of a tour (talk about not being able to escape from anything)...
AKDejavu, everyone can play this game any way they want, but playing alt-monkey, only taking on fights with huge advantages, running away, is fine, except if you want to make friends and help people out. Doesn't do squat for your ACM skills either... I can dive on anyone from massive alt and win every time. But, lots of people play this way and it's totally up to you. No probs here.
Soda
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AKDejavu, everyone can play this game any way they want, but playing alt-monkey, only taking on fights with huge advantages, running away, is fine, except if you want to make friends and help people out. Doesn't do squat for your ACM skills either... I can dive on anyone from massive alt and win every time. But, lots of people play this way and it's totally up to you. No probs here.
I've never had problems helping people out. I actually prefer it. An engaged aircraft is much easier to kill.
So soda.. just because my style isn't yours.. and my stats don't really prove your point... doesn't mean that you have to dog my flying style.
I prefer the advantage. I prefer an alt advantage. The F4u doesn't do well over 20k. That means I have to be somewhat in the fight at all times. You just have to avoid continuous turning (extended engagements) in a multi-aircraft engagement. That's a problem that many pilots have in the arena today. They stay fixated too long. Its also what makes the 1C so lethal... no other plane can make you pay for that fixation like the 1C. No more "warning pings" to let you know someone is back there. Some may call it realistic.
So.. once again.. keep digging.. looking for that excuse to validate your statements/data. It really doesn't exist.
AKDejaVu
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AKDejavu,
I think I already proved my point way back up in the thread, just you didn't seem to realize it. You proved it with your own stats if you look really closely, you've either failed to shoot down, or not seen, a single: 109G6, 109G2, 109F4, C205, 190A8, C202, Typhoon, 190A5, A6M5b or P47-D25. Being up around 20K, which I don't real consider strato, you're bound to come across 190's, P47's, and 109's. Not sure about the others typically being up that high but the 190's work best with some alt to play with. So, either you aren't finding any to shoot down or you aren't shooting the ones you do see down. They aren't shooting you down either since you're 0 kills/0 deaths on them ALL, and everyone gets shot down, so I suspect that you just aren't shooting seeing them.
Point made, and unless you can prove something to the opposite then I think we can put that to rest. Just saying "na, you're wrong." isn't proving anything, it's just showing that you can't. I'd love to hear your explanation if you have one. Saying "I never see them that high", well, 20K isn't that high and anyone in a 190 that isn't a 20K is going to have a pretty tough time.
Your style of flying has nothing to do with the stats, other than that everyone will tend to do better when they always attack with the advantage. I agree, that's smart, but not always possible. 20K is almost medium alt in AH these days, I've seen a lot of people at 25K or higher. Still, overall, I think it's down a bit from the 30K 109G10's I saw a tour or two ago. 30K was strato to me, 20K is just a good alt. I look at a guy like Zigrat who can Co-Alt merge and clean my clock 3 times in 4, that's good ACM. I could care less how you play and don't really see any problem with it. Your stats are probably the better for it, bravo.
The C-Hog should be accepted for what it is, it's a plane that doesn't lend to getting assists because any shots that it lands are nearly always fatal. Everyone knows it so I don't think that is the issue. This isn't a "ban the c-hog" thread, I fly it too sometimes when I want that quake-like killing experience. I just think that everyone realizes it now and you can enhance your fighting abilities by using it, hey, again, fair enough. Still, when you see almost everyone and their dog flying only 1 or 2 planes, that's sorta disappointing. It's gotta have HT and Pyro wondering why they even bothered to model the others that nobody is flying.
information provides insight for discussion, that's what this was. constructive comments and counter information enhance the discussion. blanket or unsupported statements like "you have no proof" do nothing but try and reduce the discussion to futility. Explain how your stats are that way since you've failed to shoot down 10 different planes in AH this tour... it's been 23+ days since the tour started when I started this thread, having a bad month?
Soda
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Well you guys have a point.....
No need for early war type aiplanes to be modeled <right now>...It might be good for scenarios but other than that they will collect dust in the hanger.
Take a look at zeke, it has a hard time competeting in the MA. Glad its here, its fun to play with sometimes.
I fear the Hellcat might suffer the same fate. I love the hellcat and will try to prove otherwise.
Bring on the A26 or mossie...we need more attack planes.
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Still, when you see almost everyone and their dog flying only 1 or 2 planes, that's sorta disappointing.
Hmmm.. My stats show 11 spit9 engagements, 7 P51 engagements, 6 F4u-1C engagements, 4 Lanc engagements, 4 C47 engagments, 3 109-G10 engagments, 3 P-38 engagements, 3 N1k engagements, 3 B-17 engagements, 2 Yak engagements, 1 205 engagment, 1 F4u-1D engagement, 1 Typhoon engagement, 1 LA5 engagement, 1 P47 engagement and 1 Ju88 engagment. MOST of my kills didn't come from any two or three aircraft. MORE of my kills came against everything but the top 3 flown planes. Weird how you fail to recognize that.
I expect to see some aircraft more than others. But I am seeing all sorts up there. My stats definately reflect that.
People are flying all aircraft. Some aircraft are prefered for whatever reason. That will always be the case. Some are not flown by most because they don't perform well. That will always be the case.
All of the planes are necessary in the arena. It means that aircraft will go up against planes that they didn't historically face. That in and of itself is fun. That is why people still hop in .202s occasionally and go hunting F4u-1Cs. They don't do it because the 202 is better than the 1C.. they do it because its a challenge and it is fun to them.
This whole thread is pointless. Your argument is pointless. Think I'll stop with my contribution to the pointlessness.
AKDejaVu
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Has anyone looked at the stats on the La5FN?
It is a midwar E fighter, and is not built for "turnfighting" in the least.
It has a wingloading up in the P-51 range, and only moderate power to weight ratio.
So you match it up against the George, which has incredible power to weight at low altitudes, and is also a pretty good turner, and you try to turnfight it?
I don't know a thing about the "make a 270 degree turn and no E loss" kind of statements, but it doesn't suprise me in the least that a George would win a fight like you described.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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The N1K is the king of the turnfight right now in my mind. The Zero can get inside it, but there aren't many zero's around and it's pretty easy to escape a Zero. Meeting a Co-Alt N1K in anything is a scary proposition, something about the model has turned it into a very good turnfighter. I think I've only flown it twice this tour, just to try it out and learn the weaknesses, but there are very few. Up high it isn't as good and the cannons are not great. When they hit they are good, but I was having aiming problems with them (my fault). It's no wonder we see lots of N1K's out there, it's a good plane for the MA.
AKDejavu, you may or maynot respond, I could care less, but again you pointed to the same results. First, take out bomber encounters because they are never a problem. To tell you the honest truth, I'm surprised more B26's aren't around in the MA but I've seen all the bombers and C47's I would like, so:
yet again we have to do the math:
<quote>
11 spit9 engagements, 7 P51 engagements, 6 F4u-1C engagements, 4 Lanc engagements, 4 C47 engagments, 3 109-G10 engagments, 3 P-38 engagements, 3 N1k engagements, 3 B-17 engagements, 2 Yak engagements, 1 205 engagment, 1 F4u-1D engagement, 1 Typhoon engagement, 1 LA5 engagement, 1 P47 engagement and 1 Ju88 engagment
<end of quote>
Take out bombers and goons, you have 40 kills. Add up the Spit9, N1K, P51 and C-hog, 24 kills... 60% from only 4 planes. Obviously you've collected a couple more kills against G10's and Yaks in the last couple of days. I've seen a couple more of those too, saw a Yak last night and a La5. Still points to an overwhelming slant against those couple of planes. The only way your math works is to include Lanc and C47 kills in the mix (4 of each). Neither is a very fearsome opponent... everyone know the Lanc weakness and can kill them without a ping, the C47, well the troops don't shoot out the window so they are pretty much defenseless.
Seems a lot of people see it AKDejavu, just not you. At the most basic level your stats state that you see 11 Spit9's for every 1 C205. No doubt having these planes to face in the MA is fun, just many people aren't taking them up because flying them isn't fun in the MA (i.e. you die a lot
Soda
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First, take out bomber encounters because they are never a problem.
Soda.. I really have to wonder what game you are playing? When are bombers not a problem?
It sounds to me like you really want to live in a H2H type of environment. Where everything is curtailed to your specific flying style. Everyone engages co-alt co-speed with aircraft that are evenly matched.
That is reflected in the way you manipulate data. If two aircraft are over a base at 15k.. one fighter and one bomber... I take out the bomber first then turn for the fighter. I know I only have to worry about the fighter when he's on my 6.. but the bomber is a threat as long as he has an unabated path to my base and higher than me.
I've also noticed your argument has gone from "2 or 3 main planes in the arena" to "if you add up the top 4". How far are you willing to stretch/manipulate things to prove your point? I especially like this:
Add up the Spit9, N1K, P51 and C-hog, 24 kills... 60% from only 4 planes.
Why'd you throw the N1k in there? I have just as many engagements as 109-G10s and P-38s yet you singled out the N1K because it supports your argument. In truth.. you are only seeing what you want to see. Oh.. by the way.. I also like the way you only focus on kills. As if the deaths I had against aircrafts weren't really engagements. But then.. you would have had to add a 5th aircraft into your equation and that is just getting too far from your original goal.
I see all sorts of planes in the arena. Some more than others. I have never gone up and only seen 2 or 3 specific aircraft in a large furball. There is always something else in there. There will always be something else in there. It is because it does not matter how well aircraft handle.. there will always be people willing to fly them. There will always be people that can do good in them.
AKDejaVu
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Ah, Dejavu... I see we will agree to disagree... As for your fighting style comments about me, well, I have no idea how you managed to dream that up. I'd hate this to be a duelling arena, I don't even like duelling to tell you the honest truth in the sense of the word. I do tend to get caught lower in the altitude bands than you though since that is where most of the important strategic aspects of the game happen, not at 25K. If someone comes in high and BnZ's me, well, they don't tend to have a lot of success as long as my SA is working. Bled out 3 or 4 straight cons who tried it the other day before they ran away. Often as a side effect of the game though you end up with some sort of duel since there are definite alt bands that some people work in. If you meet half way inbetween bases with an enemy con, quite often they are basically Co-Alt unless you made a point (or they did) of climbing a little higher. Either way, you usually don't end up with a straightup fight at merge for many reasons.
I never said/meant bombers weren't a problem, I just didn't include them in the stats because I've seen all kinds of bombers in the main arena of all types. There are lots of bombers in the air still, although the ground game is reducing that number a bit now that the option is available to drive an Ostie. Still, I think that's healthy in a way. I've seen and shot down/been shot down (at least I think I have), by all the different bomber types, that's why I didn't include them in the discussion. This was about fighters, not bombers. As for the "I'd kill the bomber first" comment, well, it depends on the situation. I might also, if it strategically is more important, if not, I might let the bomber loaf and deal with the fighter first since it is the one that is more dangerous. Like I said though, It depends on the situation.
My original comment listed 3 planes and the Ostwind as the principals, sure, now it is 4... woo hoo, I've also noticed more variety in the air lately, good. That was what I hoped would happen. You've notedly managed to shoot down some 190's towards the latter parts of this tour, as have I, so that just supports the diversification issue later in the tour vs early. I did focus on deaths too, I added them in, but at the time you printed your stats you hadn't died to ANY of the planes I listed as rare. You just had a whole lotta zeros so to my way of thinking it meant you hadn't seen any... either that or you ran away from C202's when you saw them to avoid conflict.
I can't claim to have gone up and ONLY seen 1 or 2 aircraft types in a furball or pack, but I have gone up and seen a pack of 5 N1K's or 5 F4U's (couldn't be sure I checked every plane for type) or 5 Spits (again type not totally known)... never a pack of 5 C205's. The most C205's I've ever seen together is 2, I know because I looked on it and said "wow, 2 C205's neat" There might be one C205 low, or maybe a Zero, or a Yak... but there are 3 or 4 N1K's high.
I just still haven't gotten the gist of your argument yet, you include bombers to prop up your point when bombers were never discussed as a problem. You talk about my/your fighting style, again, to each his own, but not a determining factor in what you see. Even if it was, you fly high, I fly lower, between the two of us we should have both covered. Neither of us had killed 4 or so different plane models at the time the stats were first taken, maybe more. The only things that fly higher than 30K are bombers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)... oh, and Citabria chasing bombers that high. To comment that you've never gone up and only seen 2 or 3 aircraft in a furball, I bet a lot of people would argue if you allow them to discount the 1 yak (insert semi-rare plane here) that was floating low scooping up the guys that are driven to the ground. There will also always be guys who fly their favorite kite every night, you in this case a F4U-D, bonus, and I see you've done well in it. But remember when you look at overall kills/deaths in a plane like that, 1 guy is supporting the stats for a dozen pilots who have K/D ratios around 0.2. Thus the reason your plane doesn't have a kill ratio the same as your stats.
I like the shift I'm seeing with more planes of different types coming back. Still, if you want an effective ride, there seems to be a couple of select planes that can get an average pilot better results and thus there are more of those types around. I never once whined about how people chose their rides, I choose mine my own way too.
Soda