Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on June 12, 2001, 08:46:00 AM
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Note: Summary of ideas from the community over the last few months, , just compiled them:
~Making it more difficult for a country to capture fields in the wee hours of the U.S. mornings, every target must be destroyed (save Maproom and Tower) for a capture to happen.
~Direct new players to low numbered sides, however, they can switch countries once they're online, so.....
~ what would be better is having some sort of consolation for the side with fewer numbers, ie Perk planes free
~Since the winning country is far deep into enemy territory, limited supplies at the front line fields, such as early war A/C only once beyond the default countries' fields, you can fly any A/C still, but you'll have to carry DT's to get there.
~double perk points for the underdog country once under, say 5 fields?
~Small base at HQ with ME163 with 5 min of fuel, only at small airstrip at HQ, for HQ defense.
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HT said couple months ago that he was thinking some kind of way to help country with lesser players.
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Ripsnort,
The first point would not add anything to number balance. I can't figure out the reason as for including it. IMO, It would just hamper Non-US players.
I think 3,4 and 5, especially nr.4 is well suited and merits to be tried.
I would add that once a country is reduced to, say 2 or 3 bases, a window of, say, 30 minutes is opened to win the reset. After that, a draw in the war is declared, reset takes place, and half of the victory perkies is given to the defending country.
Probably the last one has been already posted, since this particual issue is brought about on a regular basis, as the potential solutions, so I give credit to whoever might think of in the first place(just too lazy to dig the UBB ;))
There is one common field on this, and it is that (unbalanced numbers)+(current reset model)=(quite a bit of stress on the player community). I would say that Htc. should try some solution to this. I think we are ready to stand the inevitable ironing out.
Cheers,
Pepe.
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Pepe, the first line in the post says these are all suggestions from the past, the last one was my suggestion, no use diggin up posts ;)
The first suggestion has to do with capturing undefended fields, we all know what 8 players vs 2 can do in an empty arena, that is, capture anything they wish.
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Someone once said...
"Every country has a time in the barrel"
:D
Mox
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Originally posted by Mox:
Someone once said...
"Every country has a time in the barrel"
:D
Mox
Thats right, that was me. I still stand by the quote, but, when you start going on two months, and have a mass exodus because of it, then don't you think its time to modify it?
I might add, being in the barrel has brought my K/D ratio to its highest ever... :D
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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One and half months is too long time. Earlier it was day or two...
Numbers went to h€ll when AH gathered players from another sim and I expected numbers would level in some point but it doesn't look that way. Today there were +30 bish against 8 Rooks and 20 Knight.
Easy reset to Bish.
Looks like Knights and Rooks should made a agreement attack only Bishes. Then our numbers should be quite even thought I'm not sure how to share points from reset.
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Another suggestion:
Have the destruction of HQ affect only sector bars and INFLIGHT radar. (It is supposed to represent Command and Control.) Keep (functional) local field radar available in the TOWER at each field.
This would make it just a bit easier for the gang banged country to defend its last fields, AND keep its remaining players from logging, after its HQ is creamed and DAR destroyed.
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: popeye ]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
[QB]~Since the winning country is far deep into enemy territory, limited supplies at the front line fields, such as early war A/C only once beyond the default countries' fields, you can fly any A/C still, but you'll have to carry DT's to get there.
~double perk points for the underdog country once under, say 5 fields?
[QB]
How do you want me to fly Yak-9u then? It has no DTs. More, most of late war planes will be impossible to fly from your country's original forward bases deep inside enemy without refueling. Bad idea to be short.
I don't see how doubling perk points will make anyone feel better about being shot down. I would care less about how many perk points I got for killing 1 enemy if before that I was killed several times.
mx22
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: mx22 ]
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I think you should get bonus perks for kicking the guy that's down. Double for shooting his chute on top of that.
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"More, most of late war planes will be impossible to fly from your country's original forward bases deep inside enemy without refueling."
So....refuel....at captured bases. Stay alive, and you can refuel/rearm deep in enemy territory as often as you need.
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Originally posted by Fatty:
I think you should get bonus perks for kicking the guy that's down. Double for shooting his chute on top of that.
Sure, then you have an arena at prime time that tops 25 players combined...I'm telling ya, alot of folks have left, and alot more plan to leave....
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Heck I thought it was for the realism bit. What is more real, however, than an uneven war? Perhaps the off hours are more severe, but I don't see anything like the old 1 person trying to defend we used to have. I don't care if it's 100 to 20, you have an opportunity to fly, and to fight, or you can whine and quit. (or even swap countries if you want, hell I don't care)
Sure it would be nice to have a small modifier for the underdogs, but frankly I don't agree on its priorty. If losing makes one quit, then by all means one should quit this game, because chances are you're going to lose at some point.
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how about a variable perk multiplicator who change and depend on roster country nubers of players???
any hard defense will be automaticly more rewardet more u get gangbanget les they win points and with criteria perk point system u can aford more eficient plane for defense like atacker who haz les perk benefice
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Fatty, here's a metric from Saturday:
105 bish
34 rooks
23 Knits
Kinda hard to do anything, incidently, since Geeman has an account and flys Bish, I noticed that the rooks chose to fight the Knits this day as well..so the odds were 139 vs 23
Kinda hard to even get a defense going eh? ;)
I'll punt this when the Bish are limted to 3 fields for 6+ weeks, you'll agree with me then.
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By the way, Fatty, this post is not about you, or about bish, its about a business decision that HTC must make, let it go on, they lose customers, give the underdog country a fighting chance, they may retain customer base, and/or potential. Its not about knits, or me either, its about making the sim have alittle more game play value, when customers log in disgust, in high numbers, its not about 'losing'...its about not even having a fighting chance with numbers that amount to 5-1 odds.
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Since noone is trying to offer any other viable solutions, I would like to cast my vote for suggestion #4. Sure, it may not be the end all but it sounds like a good start to me. Also, I was waiting for someone to come up with the "My ride doesn't have DT's!!!!" whine. :rolleyes: Thats why God (HT) made refuel pads :D My ride doesnt have DT's either but doesnt stop me from refueling as it is now.
Edit:
After a little contemplation, I wonder if HTC would actually want to put themselves in the firing line of this BBS by implementing such a system. It would just spawn a bunch of threads complaining why disable this plane when it should clearly be that one, WTF!! why is this one disabled only one base away from default!!!
But then again, sometimes doing nothing is worse than doing anything at all.
[ 06-12-2001: Message edited by: AcId ]
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the only compromise whta you cant turn on your advantage be using game hole is the perk system changed and perk multiplicator
it can work if u atack a high number country u win with 1 kill inaf perks to go up in late 44/45 plane
if u atack country what haz egal numbers your perk benefice will be marginal just like now\
exaple :
in that situation if rock have 34 players
kinght have 32 players
biscuits have 80 players
rock even if biscuits not atacking they wil agres biscuits becose they win much much more perks like to help gangbang knights
i know U gangbanger u dont like this idea
but dont forget , maybe tomorow your country run on low numbers , you will apreciated then the system
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IMHO minus, in order to do something like that you would need a wide variety of perked AC/Vehicles with which to give enough incentive to attack the foe with numbers. Right now I believe the perk system is still in it's infancy.
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Been there Rip, prefer it actually. The most fun I've had on the beta maps were when we were back to the 2 rear bases. The most fun I've had on this map is when we're stuck on the home isle. The most fun I've had on SFTerr was defending from the two rear elevated bases. I'm not as fond of the triangle lake map, because it isn't really built in a similar fashion to get harder to take bases as you push a country further back.
I've an aversion to flying nit built over time, but I've no problem swapping to rook when they are in the bucket. The last couple of times I was on though rooks were low on numbers, they actually had the most bases. If someone has such deep rooted loyalty to a chess piece that they want to defend it to the last man, more power to them. If someone has such warped loyalty to a chess piece that they don't like being the underdog but would quit before swapping teams, then I suggest a beer and a hooker.
By all means, bump this thread next time you hear me whine :D
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Originally posted by AcId:
Also, I was waiting for someone to come up with the "My ride doesn't have DT's!!!!" whine. :rolleyes: Thats why God (HT) made refuel pads :D My ride doesnt have DT's either but doesnt stop me from refueling as it is now.
Lets just say not so many people would like the idea of flying for 15 minutes just to get near the front line. Of course if you sleep with AH on, that's not a problem, but people who log in for 1 hour of flyign a day will be hell of upset with this. I know I would, when from 1 hour of flying I will get around 15 min of dogfighting time and the rest will be spend on "sightseeing".
mx22
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Thats right, that was me. I still stand by the quote, but, when you start going on two months, and have a mass exodus because of it, then don't you think its time to modify it?
I might add, being in the barrel has brought my K/D ratio to its highest ever... :D
I agree with you Rip. You know "I" had to reply to that message! :)
Mox
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There would always be other fronts, and other planes, for a quick fight.
However, maybe #4 is too radical. There might be a lot of people who object to ANY sort of limitation on what, where, and/or when they fly.
Hmmm... I think I've seen this movie before...
;)
;)
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I think the quote in my signature says it best.......
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A few suggestion for the game…
When one country is down to 4 bases the Kracken shall be released against the country with the highest number of bases. It would roam through the dominant country’s bases destroying everything in its path. To be fare the Kracken would only show itself every half-hour until the loosing side recovered a base to the number of 5.
This of course would only work for the islands map, substitute Godzilla for the lake map. After all we have a giant squid, why not a Kracken or a Godzilla?
On the serious side I’m not sure any of the suggestions would really help balance the arena. About the only thing you can do is give the weaker side some added weapons or reduce the perk cost. I do think having the new players sequentially enter the arena would help but I’m not sure how much and how long it would take to influence the numbers.
Finally, all of the dominant country’s aircraft skins change to a bright florescent orange so we can see them when DAR is out and the loosing country gets a nice shinny Mylar to reflect the sun as much as possible. :D
Zippatuh
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Oooohhh, Zip is onto to something here (Good squaddie, good !) It could be a PLAYER CONTROLED Crack head, er, Cracken...yeah baby! Gimme a Godzilla with Chog gattling cannons on its finger tips! Woooooo eee! :D
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4th country capturable mercinary
it would be a nice prize :) swich sides once a month & you are a mercinary (not doing spell check)
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How about all the squads that rotate like the AKs etc agree on one simple rule.
when ever their rotation to a country coincides with that country having 'the numbers' they agree to switch to the country with the lowest numbers?
hell the AKs could even call themselves the fair numbers brigade :D
there are enough squads with large rosters who COULD make the difference if they helped by switching sensibly IMO
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Originally posted by hazed-:
How about all the squads that rotate like the AKs etc agree on one simple rule.
when ever their rotation to a country coincides with [qb]that country having 'the numbers' they agree to switch to the country with the lowest numbers?
hell the AKs could even call themselves the fair numbers brigade :D
there are enough squads with large rosters who COULD make the difference if they helped by switching sensibly IMO[/QB]
Hell if they wanted to do that, they would just fly for the knits. <g,d,r> :D
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I love it when my country is outnumbered.... it's called TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT.
Don't have to hunt for fights, don't have to chew on someone elses left overs.
Nexus
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I'd like to see the little gangbanged country get all the perk point planes for free after they get below a certian number of fields. When a buncha HogC's, Tempest's, TA-152's, and 262's(when we get em) start coming up all over it will at least give the little guy's something to fight with. It also might make some guy's switch to that country just to fly a 262 for free :) Think about it....
LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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I don't think any in game method will even out the countries save for the game server saying "well, too many bish, not enough rook. you, you and you are being deported to rookland, and can't come back, enjoy!" Of course, they'd just log out at that point. The only way the arena will have near even numbers is if the players do it themselves. This won't happen either, because it would have happened already.
*shrugs* The uneven numbers kinda bother me, they kinda don't. My K/D is better this tour (more planes to shoot at before I get hit!) However, every time I'm on, doesn't seem like we can make any progress in terms of base captures. So I just decided not to worry about it, and I'll just go bomb here and there, and fly missions when I can, and just have some fun. :) Working for me so far.
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Looks like Knights and Rooks should made a agreement attack only Bishes. Then our numbers should be quite even thought I'm not sure how to share points from reset.
Staga:
I came over from AW where this sort of thing went on regularly. I was flying for the country which had the best pilots and average numbers. Numbers didnt matter much due to our quality. Consequently, the other two countries joined together practically every night. It was annoying all of the time, not to mention lacking in honor.
I would hate to see the same thing happen here. Although, given the dweebery here and the insistence on loading up on numbers simply to win, it may be an effective response. :(
In the long run, no good will come of it, and honor among dweebs is short lived :rolleyes:
What may work would be a reworking of the map, with less overlapping of territory between countries so, a theatre is a theatre and nmez can slog it out without fear that while they fight one nme, the other unoccupied nme won't easily be able to milkrun the bases of a country engaged with another nme.
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If losing makes one quit, then by all means one should quit this game, because chances are you're going to lose at some point
Or, as I think this thread is about, the losers will head to the countyr with the most numbers :D
The result would still be unbalanced gameplay.
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I do think having the new players sequentially enter the arena would help but I’m not sure how much and how long it would take to influence the numbers.
Zippatuh:
Imo, this wouldn't last long. The FNGs will drift toward the country which appeals to them for many reasons eg. friends, recruitment, numbers etc.
In AW new players would go to the Cz because they had the largest numbers, at least until they got their arses handed to them by Bz or Az. In AH, it seems the Bish are helped by large numbers of former AW folks, drifting squads and disgruntled knigits and Rooks.
The balance has to be forced by the map, with restrictions on numbers in a certain theatre or sector. This way, I think, a beleaguered country could at least count on not having to fight a main nme, and a milkrunning opportunist country as well.
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Originally posted by Staga:
HT said couple months ago that he was thinking some kind of way to help country with lesser players.
HT was on last night (July 10) for a while and he saw what was happening. Perhaps he has additional info to help his team to come up with a more equitable arrangement.
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I agree there should be a way of helping understaffed sides in the main arena. Relative numbers in any engagement are usually the decisive factor so you tend to get a "herd instinct" effect, everyone goes where everyone else is going since there is safety in numbers. There should be an incentive provided to gang up on one side.
One way would be to vary AA strength or accuracy if player numbers were seriously out of whack, or even add or remove AAs dynamically at fields and installations. This would work better than basing it on number of fields IMO. Sides houln't be penalised for success, just excess.
Perhaps rebuild times could be affected by player numbers. You could rationalise this by saying that all those extra planes the bigger side's factories are having to churn out is cutting into their rebuilding resources.
Or how about adding a score or perkpoint multiplier based on relative numbers in the arena at any one time? Say at a particular time sides A and B each have twice the numbers of side C. Then A and B's players would get a score reduction when fighting C, but not when fighting each other. Side C's players OTOH get their scores increased whoever they fight. This should encourage scoremongers in A and B to hit each other rather than pick on the smallest team. Also some players might switch to C to get a score boost.
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There is no country that is constantly outnumbered. TMO it is a feature of this game. If you want always the same (of course weaker) cons, buy a boxed game.
Ripsnort had one idea I like very much.
The greater the distance between HQ and field is, the longer it takes to rebuild.
I would like to enhance this. When fields are captured, they should get lesser AAA when they are in con country. This would stop a country on a blitz, give the other countries some time to reform and organize themselves.
tofri
and about the idea to harden fields at US mornings...
Why not shut down the servers, you arro#-!$"§"/% ammurricans ;)
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Lets see, you would get more points for when you are losing? LOL , socialists. Any perks of any kind for balancing the game would be just more BS. You don't like the #'s during your play, change sides, its just that simple. How about balancing the game out by having only one plane and everyone flies at the same alt and no one loses speed and if you get shot down the guy that shot you down dies also to keep things in "balance". 'Balance' , 'playability' ect.. all words and notions that make this sim a silly game. As far as #'s go I've seen that the majority of the time even if one side in outnumbered the larger mass goes nowhere because its totally disorganized then when a squad of 4,5,6 guys get on they take 5,6,7,8,9 bases easily no matter if their on the lesser #'rd side or the greater #'rd side. As far as late night resets, heck i've taken base after base with just me and myself its pathetically easy to do in this game, big bases just take a b26 and 100#ers ack it, bail out and grab a m3, medium bases and ports just take a fast fighter ack it then rtb and grab a m3. How about this, put a 30 cal near the bunker that only stays dead for 1-2 mins at a time maybe located in the tower so if its been disabled there will be no tower view there either, that would help to deter this one man army stuff in taking bases.
[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: B52Charlie ]
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Pretty hard subject to come to an answer that would be fair to all players. Key point here "all players." I have been on when greatly outnumbered before and say, WOW if we had this it sure would help balance gameplay. But then as I think abt it, Ohh it just balances gameplay for me and seems a bit unfair to the other players that are paying to play just as I am.
What is fair? Even numbers? Bish=100, Rooks=100, Knights=100. What if 100 Bish were rookies and 100 knights were aces? Fair?
With all the even numbers now how do we keep 200 from attacking 100? Uh-oh just got uneven again, darn.
I am not trying to be a smart-ass here just trying to make a point. The more sides to a game you have the more uneven the odds become.
I am not sure of a good solution that would be fair to players so I just hold my faith in Hitech and am sure he will come up with the right solution for all. ;)
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>>What is fair? Even numbers? Bish=100, Rooks=100, Knights=100. What if 100 Bish were
rookies and 100 knights were aces? Fair?<<
No such thing as fair when those who play the game or fight the fight must always gang up on another. One who responded earlier mentioned he takes bases all by himself, IMO that is milkrunning which, as the day progresses may result in an unbalanced arena for the unfortunate country that he attacked without opposition :) To each his own but, IMO to render an opinion here about gameplay is tongue and cheek. He will play the way he wants without any consideration for the good of all.
If there is no interest in playing well, then those who want to enjoy the game in their way (because they pay to play) will, as always have to put up with it.
Would be nice to place all with such attitudes in one place and bomb them til you hear them whine <EG>
Another point was made also about multiple sides,it is unavoidable that one side will get hammered. And, contrary to what some have stated, one country tends to be in the tank always.
You are correct, no easy answer and no relief for those who just want to play well and fairly.
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Punt, since this is again a hot topic.
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I posted a slight variation that I think might help.
Yet Another Side Balancing Idea (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52475)
F.
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Thanks for posting that link Furious.
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further from your HQ a base is the slower it rebuilds....
prolly do wonders....
click the link in my sig +)
SKurj
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
[B~Direct new players to low numbered sides, however, they can switch countries once they're online, so.....
~ what would be better is having some sort of consolation for the side with fewer numbers, ie Perk planes free
~Since the winning country is far deep into enemy territory, limited supplies at the front line fields, such as early war A/C only once beyond the default countries' fields, you can fly any A/C still, but you'll have to carry DT's to get there.
~double perk points for the underdog country once under, say 5 fields?
~Small base at HQ with ME163 with 5 min of fuel, only at small airstrip at HQ, for HQ defense. [/B]
Thanks HTC! :)