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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on September 12, 2001, 11:06:00 PM

Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Urchin on September 12, 2001, 11:06:00 PM
Please.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Tac on September 13, 2001, 12:20:00 AM
kinda funny the only plane with TWO .50 cals has the same turbolaser effect as the ones that can buggily point 8 .50's at you.

Buff guns not hit harder than normal 2X .50's? hehe, try killing something in a bpony using the inner wing guns only, itl take you a LOOONG burts, even on a HO. Try them on a buff. 1-2 pings, con goes pops open.

Ironically, HT said the .50's have twice the dispersion they should have. I know how this will affect fighter's guns.. but how will it affect buff guns?
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Blue Mako on September 13, 2001, 12:28:00 AM
I agree that buff guns are too strong.  It gets kinda old that you can send a sustained burst into a buff from a D-pony near convergence and he keeps on truckin'.  1 or 2 pings from his guns and down you go minus a wing.   :(
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: GRUNHERZ on September 13, 2001, 12:30:00 AM
Buff guys have small noodle and tiny testicles and this must be "compensated" for...........   :D


Oh well!
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Pongo on September 13, 2001, 10:51:00 AM
any dweeb in any fighter can kamakazi you every time. He sees you on dar and can set up on you nearly every time.
You idiots have to decide what you are going to whine about. Buff guns. Buffs at alt. buffs hurting fields, buffs external view.
what a collection of terminal whiners.
Just do away with buffs I guess.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: iculus on September 13, 2001, 11:00:00 AM
If you're putting in a "sustained" burst, you're attacking from the dead 6 position.  Bad spot... even worse if you are at convergence (300yrds).  You should have broken off that attack long ago.

You don't hear all the pings... 1-2 pings could represent many hits.

A bomber is a big plane... a mustang, or any fighter, is a small plane.  It's easier to bring you down.

Planes without cannons aren't for buff busting.  MG's won't do much to a bomber unless you get a mess of rounds into something critical.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Westy MOL on September 13, 2001, 11:09:00 AM
These occasional calls for toning down buff guns is getting a wee bit old. I find the Lanc is the easiest bomber to shoot down, with the JU-88,TBM, IL2 and B-26 being very close candidates and with the B-17 being the hardest - if you even want to call shooting down a B-17 in AH "hard."
 
  Westy
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Replicant on September 13, 2001, 11:37:00 AM
Urchin you wuss.... find something else to cry about please, I'm not in the mood.....

 :(

Nexx
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: SOB on September 13, 2001, 12:50:00 PM
LOL!  You've got to be kidding.  If I decide not to rush it like an idiot, I can down Lancs with my P51b for crying out loud...and I suck.

And Grun, resorting to pee pee jokes?  That's a sure sign that you're a juvenille and as always it's . . . funny.  Nice work  :D


SOB
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Urchin on September 13, 2001, 01:00:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Westy MOL:
These occasional calls for toning down buff guns is getting a wee bit old. I find the Lanc is the easiest bomber to shoot down, with the JU-88,TBM, IL2 and B-26 being very close candidates and with the B-17 being the hardest - if you even want to call shooting down a B-17 in AH "hard."
 
  Westy


I actually find the opposite (well, not exactly, but my order is different).  I find B-17s the easiest to shoot down, the Ju88s, TBM, Lanc, and B26 the hardest.  

B26 can be DAMN hard to shoot down, it is tough and fast, kinda like a slow fighter.  Plus it has defensive guns like the B17.

The Lanc I find very difficult to bring down- it won't go down like the B17 will if you hammer one of the wings, nothing happens.  So you end up getting impatient and try to come up his 6, and they kill me every time.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: LePaul on September 13, 2001, 02:14:00 PM
Are we done whining that a buff shot some of you guys down?  I just do not understand the anti-bomber atitudes in here.  I AGREE that the AckStar/B-17s are a problem, firing through their own fuselage and wings at attackers.  But the ground acks have the same problem, firing THRU hangars at cons.  I also AGREE that ONLY the gun position being manned should fire.  The Lanc has the least protection, with only those 2 50's and 303s in the other spots.  The B26s and B17s have guns hanging (and firing) from every nook and cranny.

But this anti-buff thing is a wee old.  Last week, it was remove the external views.  This week, their guns are too good, since apparently one shot Urchin down a few times.  Ever consider is was just damn good gunnery and aim?  Tac's blowing me out of the sky on one pass on a nightly basis...I can't kill that dweeb   :)

What next, Urchin?  Should we request permission to fire back at you?  Maybe retard our throttles so you can catch up to our altitude, or even circle for you?  I'm just in awe that you expect the buffs to be such easy kills.  Go check the WW2 films, those things took a POUNDING and came back in pieces most of the time.  I haven't seen many gun films of B-17s (or other buffs) crumbling after a 1 second burst as some of you insist there be.

Urchin, I'm not picking on you but I strongly disagree with what you are complaining about.  Sorry, until they add-in Sidewinders, you're going to have to work for those buff kills    :p
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Westy MOL on September 13, 2001, 02:55:00 PM
"it won't go down like the B17 will if you hammer one of the wings"

 That's true that it does not. But with Lancs (and B-26's) I always go for the tail. I come in at an angle, fast, and usually thier 7-8 oclock or 4-5 o'clock postions.
 The only time I got for any kind of a "6 shot is if they are about to unload on the base I'm defending and under those circumstances it's about the only choice. Just dump your ammo into them as they will get you more than likely too.

 Westy
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Karnak on September 13, 2001, 04:57:00 PM
In my experience the tail gunner in a Lanc has to hose the target for 2-4 seconds in order to get an effect.

I have had plenty of fighter fly right down my Lanc's tail, straight up my fire, and shoot me down.

Urchin,

Would you be happier if the Lanc had 4 .303s in the tail instead?
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Replicant on September 13, 2001, 06:19:00 PM
Sometimes I wish I had 4x .303s in the tail of the Lanc because the .50s don't last long at all.  If someone is careful then they'll easily down a Lanc.  Besides, the rear turret nearly always gets killed anyhow....

Nexx
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Karnak on September 13, 2001, 07:53:00 PM
Replicant,

Heh.  Thought that I was the only one.  Same reason too.  I'd dearly love to have the ammo to play with, but the Lanc has so little that you hold your fire for sure shots.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: LePaul on September 13, 2001, 08:57:00 PM
LOL!

Read my mind!  Of all the buffs, ONLY the Lancaster looses its guns to damage!  I havent ever had that happen in a B17 or B26.  The Ju88, well, once the shooting starts, there usually isnt a Ju88 left   :)
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Blue Mako on September 13, 2001, 10:13:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by iculus:
If you're putting in a "sustained" burst, you're attacking from the dead 6 position.  Bad spot... even worse if you are at convergence (300yrds).  You should have broken off that attack long ago.

You don't hear all the pings... 1-2 pings could represent many hits.

A bomber is a big plane... a mustang, or any fighter, is a small plane.  It's easier to bring you down.

Planes without cannons aren't for buff busting.  MG's won't do much to a bomber unless you get a mess of rounds into something critical.

Negative on sitting on the buffs 6.  I have been hit while doing slashing attacks from above and in front of bombers.  One lucky ping and the house of cards collapses.  If the buff guns weren't augmented then that wouldn't happen.  I dont mind getting killed if I do something stupid, but I do mind getting killed by an augmented system.

Check my stats.  I've killed more B17s than anything else this tour so far.  I can consistently down most buffs in the game if I take my time and all bar one are with the D pony.

I just think that the firepower of the buff guns should be equivalent to the guns on the fighters.

My $0.02
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Urchin on September 13, 2001, 10:19:00 PM
Yea, I do that as well.  I don't EVER "sit" on the Buff's 6.  All it takes is passing behind the tail off the buff at something less than pointblank range and you are pretty much screwed.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: gatt on September 14, 2001, 12:51:00 AM
Everybody know that buff's guns have a different lethality, range, dispersion and bullet size. This is a game's feature. Like the M3-M16 toughness, the Hispanos anti-armor capability and the laser-ack.

Live with it. The game is still good, probably the best around.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: dracken1 on September 14, 2001, 07:04:00 AM
in the ma i almost always fly a buff.and i agree with a lot of what is said above from both sides when i fly a lanc a quick burst from a fighter almost always takes out the rear turret.in a 17 it seems to be the belly turret goes.in a 26 i cant remember the last time i lost any turret.in a ju88 i never lose a gun,just the plane around them.tbm upper gun almost always gives up.i would like to see quad 303's in the lanc as the ammo amount is very low.where as a 26 has loads of ammo for it's tail turret.i dont think that you should only be capable of firing the turret you are in every turet that could bear would have fired on you.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: LePaul on September 14, 2001, 10:39:00 AM
One thing I haven't seen noted, and I do not know if this is modeled...but the imapct of flying INTO a buffs guns is certainly going to do a bit more damage...I mean, I'm no phsyics guru but it would seem you have the energy of the round fired, plus the momentum of the aircrafts speed INTO that.  Follow?

Good points, all.  The B17 seems to be guilty of being the incredible ack star, while the Lancaster leads the pack in loosing either guns to damage or running out of ammo fast.  

Ju88s just run out of airplane  :)  

As to B26s, I always seem to loose an engine, and at altitude, the B26 cant fly it on one engine, so its always a long descent back for home.  

TBMs, well, that bird always looses a chunk of the wing (usually the left wing) and starts doing to wing dropping similar to the F6Fs, from my experience.

Arados have little Jesus Statues on the dash for buff pilots to pat, and hope the cons cant gain on you   :)
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Tozza on September 14, 2001, 02:25:00 PM
In response to the "tiny noodle" comment near the top.I regulally fly both the Lancaster and the B17 and my noodle is in excess of 10 inches tho,admittedly,my balls are like peas in a pod.
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: hitech on September 14, 2001, 02:42:00 PM
LePaul Not exactly the bullet is going slower do to the plane that it is shot from is moving ahead. If both planes are going the same speed it is very close to the same impact vel. The one thing that does make a different is do to the Vel of the bullet moving slower relative to the air it will actuly slow down less when shooting back and have a higher impact vel relative to the target.

HiTech
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Steven on September 14, 2001, 04:35:00 PM
So let's say (and my example is a great exageration) that a bullet travels 500mph and so if you get a buff moving at 500mph the bullet fired back will not travel any distance?

I thought I once heard that when the player fires in his turret that other turrets on the bomber automatically fire as well if the enemy plane is within its field of view too.  If this is true, this would mean that you may be being fired on by more than one turret.  Can someone let me know if I heard wrong?

Also, is it a game design that restricts more than one gunner on a crew or is it a gameplay decision?  

-Puke
332nd Flying Mongrels
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: SKurj on September 15, 2001, 08:53:00 AM
i've lost gun positions in 17, as many as 3 in one pass.


SKurj
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: loser on September 16, 2001, 09:34:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tac:
kinda funny the only plane with TWO .50 cals has the same turbolaser effect as the ones that can buggily point 8 .50's at you.

Buff guns not hit harder than normal 2X .50's? hehe, try killing something in a bpony using the inner wing guns only, itl take you a LOOONG burts, even on a HO. Try them on a buff. 1-2 pings, con goes pops open.

Ironically, HT said the .50's have twice the dispersion they should have. I know how this will affect fighter's guns.. but how will it affect buff guns?

tac are you drunk?


  :D
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: hitech on September 19, 2001, 02:05:00 PM
Seven:

So let's say (and my example is a great exageration) that a bullet travels 500mph and so if you get a buff moving at 500mph the bullet fired back will not travel any distance?


Exactly: It will be come out of the barrel and have 0 vel relative to the air, it will have a 500 mph vel relative to the plane. Now lets say another plane is right behind that buff doing 500 Mph also. The plane will hit that bullet at 500 mph.

If both planes were standing on the ground the bullet would be slowing down as it travled the distance and impacts the plane behind at less than 500 mph.

HiTech
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: Karnak on September 19, 2001, 05:46:00 PM
If the Lanc has twin 50mm cannon in the tail, please do something about the C.205's damage model.

I hit a C.205 with 8 of those 50mm rounds and it had no effect.  I'd hate to shoot at it with normal guns like fighters have.

  :rolleyes:
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: elstevie on September 20, 2001, 04:52:00 PM
Did he say 50mm? HOLY COW!! That explains it then.  :eek:
Title: Tone down the twin 50mm cannon in Lanc
Post by: iculus on September 20, 2001, 08:24:00 PM
HT, you forgot about the bullet just falling down :D

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