Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: WarTooth on December 18, 2008, 07:55:15 PM
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Guys,
A topic that seems unclarified is to use drop tanks or not. The negative seems to be that there is added weight after it is dropped (via the rack to hold it). I think some have said 50 pounds of rack weight.
Then again carrying extra internal fuel and not being able to get rid of it at a moments notice is not ideal (the fuel can have significant weight too etc.).
As many of you, as I get better these small differences make a difference in close fights.
What are your findings and preferences on drop tanks vs. no drop tanks?
Thanks,
WT
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It's not the weight, it's the drag penalty. The drop tank rack takes off ~5mph on the deck. I always take 100% internal for range before I consider a drop tank.
Trotter and I have noticed that without the drop tank rack, the 109K-4 out runs the P-51D on the deck, which is useful for retreating, as well as preventing their escape. With the rack the 51D seems a little faster below 5k ft.
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It's not the weight, it's the drag penalty. The drop tank rack takes off ~5mph on the deck. I always take 100% internal for range before I consider a drop tank.
Trotter and I have noticed that without the drop tank rack, the 109K-4 out runs the P-51D on the deck, which is useful for retreating, as well as preventing their escape. With the rack the 51D seems a little faster below 5k ft.
The K-4 will outrun the Pony D at almost every altitude particularly as the WEP lasts twice as long. I ran one down at 17K one night but the real point is why would you retreat from a P-51D? The K-4 also out turns it, out climbs it and out rolls it.
BTW, I always take 100% internal fuel too and never carry a drop tank. I do the same in everything I fly except in the Spits I carry a sipper tank to extend range. If a few pounds of weight is making a big difference for you you just need to hone your skills a little more. Parasitic drag is a much bigger liability.
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why would you retreat from a P-51D?
Oh, come on, this one is easy!
When his 3 Spit16 buddies show up of course! :rofl
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Up until a couple of weeks ago i used DT and 50% most of the time just so i could dump the tank when i got to the action and have a lighter g14. I then tried it with 100% and no droppy. I wont go back to using DT unless im going really really far.
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Guys,
>> Parasitic drag is a much bigger liability.
Thanks very much for clarifying this point.
WT
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Oh, come on, this one is easy!
When his 3 Spit16 buddies show up of course! :rofl
Only three? :D
I never take a droptank in the 109 unless I'm flying in a FSO. In the MA I always take 100% unless I'm upping from a base getting attacked then its only 50%.
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I find 109s to have seriously short legs, especially the gas-guzzler later models. I trade off the few mph drag for the greater range.
FYI: I normally take 100% + DT. I like the option of longer sorties It's only 25 mins on internal fuel, and that's NOT counting running 10 of those minutes at WEP.
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I take 100%, no DT. 109's climb very quickly to cruising alt, then I cut back to economy settings. Cruise speed is high enough, and a 109 can accelerate quickly when needed.
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I take 100%, no DT. 109's climb very quickly to cruising alt, then I cut back to economy settings. Cruise speed is high enough, and a 109 can accelerate quickly when needed.
+1 here
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I take 100%, no DT.
You guys have to be kidding :huh . I never carry 100%. With a lot of the planes 25% is all you need to fight around your own base- 50% to get you to another base and back.
I use drop tanks fairly often in the Nikki. I normally load 50% with the nikki due to its small tank (or high fuel burn...don't know which it is). If I'm heading to another field and there's been little to no resistance, I'll go 75% which seems to work fine if I don't get interrupted on the way to the enemy field.
I don't like getting jumped with 75% fuel, though. If there's cons intercepting me on the way to the base, I'll use a drop tank and carry 50% of fuel and dump the drop tank if I run into trouble on the way to the target.
At least you guys have answered one question for me: I've run into a number of opponents that seem to have an endless supply of fuel in their planes as they seem to hang over my field forever. I was wondering how they did that as I couldn't imagine anyone crazy enough to take 100% fuel with them. I guess there are some that crazy.
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And what exactly is "crazy" about taking 100% fuel in a 109? Getting jumped with 50% instead of 75% won't help you much.
50% with DT reduces my top speed, 50% without DT may be enough to reach a very close nme base for a very quick furball, but would seriously reduce my tactical options in every other type of battle.
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At least you guys have answered one question for me: I've run into a number of opponents that seem to have an endless supply of fuel in their planes as they seem to hang over my field forever. I was wondering how they did that as I couldn't imagine anyone crazy enough to take 100% fuel with them. I guess there are some that crazy.
*knocks* anyone home up there?
YOU must be crazy not to take 100% in a 109, most people like to stick around for awhile, not get 2 kills and run back home and get their name lit up in the text buffer
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not get 2 kills and run back home and get their name lit up in the text buffer
But...but...but...that's what I live for! :rock
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I think there is an illusion that the %25 fuel offers a HUGE advantage over %75-%100 fuel in most fighters. I'd be willing to bet that in most fighters it doesnt make as much of a difference as most of these %25 fuel w/ DT guys suggest. Besides, that is one of the biggest "gaming the game" there is.
I have yet to look up the stats, and I dont even know if there are any other than on the P47N, but if one needs to rely on %25 fuel in otherwise quite capable aircraft to make or break their survival then perhaps they are doing many other things wrong. I hate being forced down due to a low fuel gauge.
I now have every single one of my fighters at %100 fuel.
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Just to put thing back into proportion:
109K4 with 75% = 7354lbs ~21mins flight time left at 5k
109K4 with 50% = 7196lbs ~14 mins flight time left at 5k
That's 2% less total weight at the expense of about 7 mins flight time. Small gain for huge loss.
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You guys have to be kidding :huh . I never carry 100%. With a lot of the planes 25% is all you need to fight around your own base- 50% to get you to another base and back.
I use drop tanks fairly often in the Nikki. I normally load 50% with the nikki due to its small tank (or high fuel burn...don't know which it is). If I'm heading to another field and there's been little to no resistance, I'll go 75% which seems to work fine if I don't get interrupted on the way to the enemy field.
I don't like getting jumped with 75% fuel, though. If there's cons intercepting me on the way to the base, I'll use a drop tank and carry 50% of fuel and dump the drop tank if I run into trouble on the way to the target.
At least you guys have answered one question for me: I've run into a number of opponents that seem to have an endless supply of fuel in their planes as they seem to hang over my field forever. I was wondering how they did that as I couldn't imagine anyone crazy enough to take 100% fuel with them. I guess there are some that crazy.
That strategy is appropriate for the N1k, but terrible for the 109. You have to use the various aircraft available to us in different ways to be effective.
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I think there is an illusion that the %25 fuel offers a HUGE advantage over %75-%100 fuel in most fighters. I'd be willing to bet that in most fighters it doesnt make as much of a difference as most of these %25 fuel w/ DT guys suggest. Besides, that is one of the biggest "gaming the game" there is.
I have yet to look up the stats, and I dont even know if there are any other than on the P47N, but if one needs to rely on %25 fuel in otherwise quite capable aircraft to make or break their survival then perhaps they are doing many other things wrong. I hate being forced down due to a low fuel gauge.
I now have every single one of my fighters at %100 fuel.
When I fly my G14. It feels SOOOOOO much better with 50%-25%. Your very sluggish with 75% or 100%.
It may be just me but eh
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I think there is an illusion that the %25 fuel offers a HUGE advantage over %75-%100 fuel in most fighters.
I suppose that could be. I remember a year or two after I first started the game. I was flying a p51b. After four sorties, or so, I went to the hangar for some reason and noticed I was carrying two bombs the whole time. I just upped the plane without paying attention and really didn't notice the difference.
As far as always carrying 100%, I wonder what the real pilots did it ww2?
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That's 2% less total weight at the expense of about 7 mins flight time. Small gain for huge loss.
Just to be clear that's a 2% drop in wieght for a 33% decrease in flight time going from 75% to 50% fuel.
While the reduced fuel might make you slighly more nimble the decrease in flight time would severely impact your stats:
Lets say you are averaging 3 K/D and 2 K/S at 100% fuel load and decide to decrease fuel to 50%. If the numbers above translated directly (which is doubtful) you'r K/D would go up to 3.1 (4% gain) while your K/S would decrease to 1.0 (50% loss). I can guarantee that you would move down in the pilot rankings.
I want enough fuel onboard to land multi-kill sorties. Even at 100% internal I can't tell you how often I have to rtb for fuel when I'd rather stay out fighting and I've never felt disadvantaged with the extra fuel.
I won't drop the sipper on the Spits until it's dry. Even in a fight. In the F6F if I get into a fight before I'm able to drop ord I'll drop the bombs and fight with the rockets still in the rails. Once you're used to it it's really not a hinderence. It's no different than any other non-similar aircraft match-ups. The guy with superior knowlede of ACM's is going to win regardless of how his plane is loaded.