Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Yossarian on December 20, 2008, 07:27:03 PM
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Ok, my home computer is several years old, and it is currently stuck with a NVidia GeForce FX5200, which apparently isn't too good, and is severely outdated anyway.
I'm wondering what limiting factors there are on what sort of graphics card I can get, as in Power Supply, type of port (AGP or PCI?) etc. Could someone please tell me if I've missed any, and where/how I can find this information?
Thanks in advance for any help,
Yossarian
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People will probably ask you for the computers DXDIAG..Which you get in the start RUN then type in DXDIAG and hit enter..then save to desktop,then goin and CC&P top 1/3 of it..
What type of comp do you have??
Falcon23
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Need to know motherboard specs and power supply specs to start. If the system is several years old might not really be worth upgrading
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I'm not at home atm but I'll try and get hold of the DXDIAG.
As for the computer type, IIRC it's a Dell Dimension 8200, and I'll try and get some specs on it.
Also, if I can't get hold of a DXDIAG for whatever reason, where in windows could I look to find out about whatever limits which graphics cards I could get?
EDIT: TilDeath, I agree with what you say about the upgrading, but my parents don't see it that way sadly ;) . What motherboard specs do you mean, and where could the power supply specs be found?
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From what I see on Dells' site, the 8200 has a PSU has 250 watts with 10A on 12V rail. The Motherboard has 4x PCI slots and an AGP slot.
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From what I see on Dells' site, the 8200 has a PSU has 250 watts with 10A on 12V rail. The Motherboard has 4x PCI slots and an AGP slot.
Ok, thanks for finding that 1701 :aok
Should whatever graphics card I get have a lower power rating (probably wrong term for it) than the 250W of the PSU?
Also, with the PCI and AGP, which is better (and I've tried finding out if my current GeForce FX 5200 is AGP or PCI, but I can't find anything giving a definitive answer)?
Thanks again,
Yossarian
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I would NOT upgrade the card. That Power Supply only has 10amps, your close to that already with MB, DVD or CD, Hard Drive and a Video card. Getting a new video card in my opinion would be waisting monies! If you upgraded your power supply also then maybe.
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Ok, I've been researching this thing on the internet/Google, and am slowly going crazy :rolleyes:
If I were to go ahead with my plans, and upgrade the PSU, what would that involve? Do I need to worry about whether the new PSU would actually physically fit inside the computer, or is there a standard size/shape for all (or most) PSUs?
I've been on the NVidia website (I've always used their products [well I've only ever had one video card, so that's sort of a given I suppose]), and I'm inclined to stick with them, but where else can I compare graphics cards in detail?
Going back to the NVidia website, they said that for a budget of $0-150, a 300 Watt power supply, and a PCI Express motherboard type (I hope that was the correct option), I could use a GeForce 8600 GT or 8500 GT. Does anyone have any thoughts on those?
Thanks,
Yossarian
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IMHO, I would stick maybe $30-40 or so into a 400W power supply and then I'd shop Ebay/Craigslist for used Video cards. Since your computer is fairly dated, I wouldn't worry about shopping high end PSU brands. Your system is approximately 5 years old, a P4 Northwood core most likely.
Something like a Radeon X1650 or X1800, or mid level 6000-7000 Nvidia series (7600GS maybe). You don't want to put a high horsepower video card in your system because #1 AGP is getting quite dated #2 your old CPU will be a bottleneck and you won't get full use out of the video card = wasted money. I wouldn't spend more than $100 or so. I'd save your money for a new computer.
Also, I do not believe they made the Nvidia 8xxx series in AGP at all. (They did in PCI, but those cards are designed for HTPC I think, not gaming).
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Seeing as it's a Dell, upgrading it will probably be very difficult. In some situations they'll use "custom" parts like the case and motherboard size, meaning you may not be able to find a power supply that will fit into the case.
That's the nice thing about home-built or "barebones" computers; everything's designed to fit with everything else. You have to service it yourself or know someone like me in case something goes wrong, though. :)
When buying a power supply, make sure you get the right number of pins to the main connector. I think the 20+4 pin configuration is pretty much universal.
AGP is an outdated technology and has been forced to the wayside. You can still get better than a 5200 (IIRC the 7800 was the last mainstream card to come out in AGP) but keep in mind that's as far as she'll go.
EDIT-OT: Hey now, don't be knocking the Northwood there Fulmar. :D It smokes (or rather, doesn't smoke compared to) the Prescott since you could fry eggs on those things. My Standard-clock 3.06GHz Northwood, unlocked 6800, and 2GB of Corsair ValueRAM still plays this game at full settings all-round...cept the Ground Vis Range slider, I think.
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I retired my Northwood 2 years ago!
Actually, ATI made the 3850 in an AGP version, but that'd be a waste of horsepower on that Dell IMO.
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Yeah, I'm saving up for an E8600. But...still! :D
For this game, it works more than just fine. :) I've just started moving on to newer games...and even then, it's mostly the video card failing me.
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PSU's are generally same size. Should not be a problem upgrading.
This is why so many recommend NOT BUYING a DELL, HP or COMPAQ. They build them with older technology,onboard video and sound, power suppplies that are just enough to run the computer. This makes upgrading difficult to impossible.
For the $ some spend, they can build there own rather easily. Some units are real cheap and if it is the only thing you can afford....So be it.
170, Did you get your new video card???
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PSU's are generally same size. Should not be a problem upgrading.
Not with Dell. They are a different size and have a proprietary plug or at least they used to.
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Not with Dell. They are a different size and have a proprietary plug or at least they used to.
Agreed, I ahve seen Dell PSU's that are 4 x 4 x 4 squares.... never seen one like that from a PSU manufacturer. YOu would need to find a Dell replacement for that particular case and MB combo. Good luck with the age of the system.
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Agreed, I ahve seen Dell PSU's that are 4 x 4 x 4 squares.... never seen one like that from a PSU manufacturer. YOu would need to find a Dell replacement for that particular case and MB combo. Good luck with the age of the system.
Where would be a good place to start looking for something like this?
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Ugggh to Dell!!!!
:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
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PS for Dell
http://pcpowerzone.com/dimension.html
As for the VC....
I dont know the MB setup but normally your better off with the same VC as your onboard chipset since Dell wont have drivers that support ATI if its an Nvidia chipset IMO...
So...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500051
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PS for Dell
http://pcpowerzone.com/dimension.html
As for the VC....
I dont know the MB setup but normally your better off with the same VC as your onboard chipset since Dell wont have drivers that support ATI if its an Nvidia chipset IMO...
So...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500051
Humble, THANK YOU!!!
Just a few questions:
Is this (http://pcpowerzone.com/dimension.html (http://pcpowerzone.com/dimension.html)) the same as the 250W power supply that the Dell came with?
And do you think this:http://pcpowerzone.com/pccoppsi500d.html (http://pcpowerzone.com/pccoppsi500d.html) would fit in the Dimension 8200?
Thanks,
Yossarian
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The 8200 isnt listed on the breakdown of boxes for the 2nd PS...I'd check with customer service before ordering....
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Ok, I just found out that I have a Dell Dimension 8300 ( :mad:) from my dad, but it looks like one of the PSUs listed there will work in the 8300. Do you think that the graphics card you gave the link to would work in the 8300?
Thanks,
Yossarian
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The Dimension 8300 has AGP 4x/8x Expansion, same as the cards listed.
http://www.dealtime.com/xPF-Dell-Factory-Refurbished-8300-JLVX641-P4-3G-256M-80G-CDRW-K-N-S-XPH
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As already mentioned the 8300 has a 8xAGP slot so the answer is yes....
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Will I probably need to upgrade the fan as well, or could I get away with not doing so? If/when I go ahead with this, will it be simply: turning off & unplugging the computer, taking out the parts that are being replaced, putting in the new ones, then booting it back up again?
Thanks,
Yossarian
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I've owned Dells for decades, have bought lots and lots of them, and like them a lot. They are very inexpensive for what you get, but yes, upgradability is not a strong suit because the motherboards and cases are non-standard formats.
I've put stock power supplies in the past into Dells -- it depends on the Dell model. Look at the technical specs for your Dell (download it from the Dell site) and see if a standard power supply connector will work on it. (Make sure each wire in the connector is listed as the same voltage as what the connector in your Dell model needs.)
As for a graphics card, most these days cards in the $70-$90 range will be plenty fast for Aces High. The problem is that you have an AGP slot, which is an outdated slot. Most PC's now use PCIexpress (PCIe) slots (not that same as PCI).
You can look on newegg.com (excellent prices in general) to see what they have in the $70-$90 range for AGP and look at the chipset's ratings on Tom's Hardware VGA charts ( http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards,1.html ) to see how it does. Even older Nvidia 6800GS or 6800GT cards (and things with performance in that range) are plenty fast for Aces High, in my opinion.
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Had in my last comp. 6800GS with AMD Athalon 3000 which only OC'd to 2.1GHZ. Ran fine with not many planes but a tad jumpy in furballs. It really depends on what processor he is running. Advise on a card is not as simple as what type. In this case, it looks like he is running a Pentium 4. If his computer runs minimal processes it will be "OK" with a 6800GS. This model came with either a 250w or 305w power supply. If it is 305W he may be good to go with a 7000 series card which would be a good improvement over the 5200.
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Ok, is there any chance that I'd be able to run the hi-res textures pack with the Nvidia 7600 that humble posted the link to (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076))? And will I probably need to upgrade the fan or not?
(Make sure each wire in the connector is listed as the same voltage as what the connector in your Dell model needs.)
Could you please clarify what you mean here? I've never dealt with PSUs before and have very little clue about them so far.
Finally, I've noticed that on newegg.com, they have different variants of the same cards, e.g. they have NVidia 7600GS's made by EVGA, and others with the letters PNY. What is the difference between these?
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Ok, is there any chance that I'd be able to run the hi-res textures pack with the Nvidia 7600 that humble posted the link to (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076))? And will I probably need to upgrade the fan or not?
Could you please clarify what you mean here? I've never dealt with PSUs before and have very little clue about them so far.
Finally, I've noticed that on newegg.com, they have different variants of the same cards, e.g. they have NVidia 7600GS's made by EVGA, and others with the letters PNY. What is the difference between these?
You won't need to upgrade any fans.
The high-res texture pack -- I'm not sure. Even very high-end systems can have a little stuttering with the high-res texture pack unless they have a lot of graphics-card memory and system memory. See the information here:
http://www2.hitechcreations.com/frindex.html
The technical info on the power connectors for a Dimension 8200 is here:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8200/techov.htm#1101565
It looks like a standard 20-pin connector with the usual voltages at each of the various pins. So, all ATX12V power supplies will have the correct connectors.
However . . .
In looking at the Dimension 8300 case, it looks like its back grill covers the spot where the on-off goes for most standard ATX12V power supplies. Newer Dell cases don't do this -- the have an open back so any power supply fits. You have two solutions for your Dimension 8300. One is that you can use a dremel tool to carve out the back grill area on your case -- then any standard ATX12V power supply will fit. (Make sure you don't leave any metal shavings laying around to short our your motherboard if you do this.) The other is that you can buy a power supply without the usual switch on the back, like this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817707049
Now on to graphics cards. Here's a list of AGP cards at Newegg. (You need an AGP card -- you can't use PCIe cards.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%201069609639&bop=And&Order=PRICED
I'd probably pick the Radeon HD2600XT (by PowerColor) for $60. (ATI and nVidia both sell their chipsets to 3rd-party manufacturers which then make the Radeon or GeForce cards, manufacturers such as, for ATI chipsets, Powercolor, Sapphire, etc., and for nVidia chipsets, BFG, XFX, eVGA)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131136
Also, if you don't have at least 1 GB RAM, go to crucial.com and get some more memory:
http://crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=Dimension%208300%20Series
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Very good Brooke. Nice explanaition.
You will not going to have any good experience with hi res and that card(it may run but you may have problems in high traffic/graphic areas). I would recommend you run at 512 or 256 textures. You cannot run HR at these textures. Do not worry about hi res worry about the "Great Aces High Experience". Your gaming will be more pleasant with a smooth screen. You will have to play around with the card settings and textures to find the best quality/performance settings.
As far as your Pentium 4. It is a bit older technology but it should be ok with that card for now just don't expect the world. It will be better than what you have.