Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: simshell on December 21, 2008, 04:00:23 PM
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since I have come back
I have noticed that Ord porking seems be a craze going on in the main
dozens of airfields I can find with ords out
I watch typhoons and p51s and others going solo into bases taking out ords
it sorta reminds me of the days when you could pork fuel to 25%
just wondering what everyone else thought of Ord porking going on alot right now it seems
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Well, if done right one plane can take the ord out at a large, and small airfield in one flight. It's pretty easy too, wish they would up the ord needed to kill it, but what are ya gunna do. It's been a craze for the past few years, mainly for CV fights.
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makes me wonder if they should up the amount required amount to kill one
if there so easy
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Second Craze is resupplying those bases. I remember when it use to be there were only 2 barracks at each base. On small maps they would take everyone's troops out for the whole map.
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my main concern is am not sure how to defend against screaming Typhoons and P51s going diving into bases at full speed
when I build my perks back up I may up a 262 sometime and see if I can chase one down
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Yeah, they should. I think they ought to harden virtually everything in the MA abit.
As a general observation, it seems to me that right now moving the map in the MA is based on sneak NOEs of undefended bases, playing "musical bases" with the same goal of getting the one that ends up relatively undefended, or, if that fails, it is based on the side which has enough people willing to do a lemming-style jabo or bomber runs until the base is porked/toolshedded into helplessness. It would be nice if some well-thought out changes could make moving the map more about achieving the sort of air superiority (through fighter aviation) that allows the buffs and jabos, and ultimately goons to do their work *without* it being a suicide mission, if that makes any sense.
makes me wonder if they should up the amount required amount to kill one
if there so easy
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Porking ords is just about the only way to slow down the horde land grabbers and promote fighting.
IMHO PORK EM UP!
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Porking ords is just about the only way to slow down the horde land grabbers and promote fighting.
IMHO PORK EM UP!
There is that aspect, however, it is a double-edged sword, one or two planes to pork ords and drop the VH, and then a base can be facing land-grab GV hordes with no way to turn it into a fight.
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There is that aspect, however, it is a double-edged sword, one or two planes to pork ords and drop the VH, and then a base can be facing land-grab GV hordes with no way to turn it into a fight.
Thats why we have the laser IL2. Many hording GV assualts have been thwarted.
On the subject of porking ords..leave it the way it is. Most of the time people are too lazy to pork but when they do, it can be very effective at stoping the hordes. and yes..it does promote actual fighting rather than just hanger bangin
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1, Take out ords.
2, Dont take out ords and get your CV, GVs, and hangars ,whacked out in short order.
You have only one choice. So choose.
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It's always been like this
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Thats why we have the laser IL2. Many hording GV assualts have been thwarted.
On the subject of porking ords..leave it the way it is. Most of the time people are too lazy to pork but when they do, it can be very effective at stoping the hordes. and yes..it does promote actual fighting rather than just hanger bangin
And I think Il2 constitutes overkill the OTHER way in the plane vs. GV contest, and should be lightly perked.
I'd rather hanger banging be kept in check through 1. Harder field objects, 2. More interceptable buffs, and 3. Jabo'ers actually flying like flesh+burning aviation gas is a BAD thing. :D
Well, 2 out of the 3 are possible anyway. :)
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I will admit, I enjoy porking troops and ord. It seems like the right thing to do, especally when your facing the steam roller land grab nights. Feild ack is very deadly unlike before when it almost seemed to be just a light show. Which makes it risky to make multiple passes to destroy as many assets as possible to disable the ord, troops or knock fuel down a little. It's fine the way it is IMHO.
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I'll spend hours porking ords,dar, troops,ack....... :aok
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In the amount of time it takes to cry and piss and moan about it, you can up a goon/m3 and resupply the dump, get ord back up, and ern some perkies to boot.
oh wait, this is furballers high, its all about auto takeoff ----> autoclimb to 8K -------> autolevel for half a sector ------> pick engaged cons till you get picked and start over..
anything else is, well just a nuisance.
:lol
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autoclimb to 8K :lol
They climb higher than that
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They climb higher than that
(http://www.mediabistro.com/prnewser/original/url.jpg)
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Leave the ord up and enjoy all the low level bombers eating 5"....
:devil
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Leave the ord up and enjoy all the low level bombers eating 5"....
:devil
Been there done that. Had a squad up 88s in the masses trying to kill our CV. I hopped in the 40mm quad and got 20-30 kills easy.
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If you take out ord porking what will the guys that can't turn a plane without spinning into the ground going to do.
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Join the Ltars? :lol
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Join the Ltars? :lol
Hey, I like those guys. Great bunch.
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We don't need to change the hardness of field objects.
1. One person, one aircraft or vehicle.
2. Merge fighter and attack scores into one.
3. Implement a perk system for ordinance with the possibility of buying ordinance when it's been porked.
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We don't need to change the hardness of field objects.
1. One person, one aircraft or vehicle.
2. Merge fighter and attack scores into one.
3. Implement a perk system for ordinance with the possibility of buying ordinance when it's been porked.
I think fighter and attack should be combined, would take a little bit of focus off the score aspect for some people
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If their ords are bothering you then take them out, if your ords are down then resupply them. If they keep trying to take your ords, then up and shoot them down. Porking and the process of defending against porking fosters some of the best fights I have run into. It is an integral part of this game, and needs no changes. :aok
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Porking and the process of defending against porking fosters some of the best fights I have run into.
Not really. A single fighter can dive through the toughest fighter screens and suicide-pork the ords with little difficulty.
I think fighter and attack should be combined, would take a little bit of focus off the score aspect for some people
I also do not know of any occasion when the records of a fighter pilot's sorties were divided in two depending on whether he carried bombs, as if he were two different people.
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Hey, I like those guys. Great bunch.
I agree :)
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Not really. A single fighter can dive through the toughest fighter screens and suicide-pork the ords with little difficulty.
I guess that I think about it differently. I assume that someone is coming for the ords, and up in the most likely direction of attack. I try to catch them before they can go into the terminal "you can't catch me before I get the ords" dive. I have had this create 1 v 1's, and also aggravated responses of multiple uppers trying to do the same thing. Thereby creating a great dogfighting furball. Too many folks wait for the enemy to come to them, and it's too late then. Not speaking of you Gavagai, as I regularly see you bring the fight to the bad guys. I prefer to take it to them also. Why give the porkers easy pickings?
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I guess that I think about it differently. I assume that someone is coming for the ords, and up in the most likely direction of attack. I try to catch them before they can go into the terminal "you can't catch me before I get the ords" dive. I have had this create 1 v 1's, and also aggravated responses of multiple uppers trying to do the same thing. Thereby creating a great dogfighting furball. Too many folks wait for the enemy to come to them, and it's too late then. Not speaking of you Gavagai, as I regularly see you bring the fight to the bad guys. I prefer to take it to them also. Why give the porkers easy pickings?
If I really want to pork ords and expect someone to adopt your strategy (or mine ;)), I up from a rear field in something like a P-47N or P-51, i.e. something fast, and I'm already in a power dive 12k ft over my own base on the way to the next one. Sure, I'll get shot down, but not before I achieve my objective.
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Generally porkers wont fight. They dive through and suicide. No fun there.
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Generally porkers wont fight. They dive through and suicide. No fun there.
I always try to fight after I drop my ords (p47-d40). Although I am not good at it. That is, unless I lawn dart. Which I have been known to do. :rolleyes:
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Generally porkers wont fight. They dive through and suicide. No fun there.
Unfortunately this is true in the bulk of the porkers. My question is what is their motivation?
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Unfortunately this is true in the bulk of the porkers. My question is what is their motivation?
They get their gvs bombed.
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Fuel on Airfields cannot be reduced below 75% now...and Barracks and Acks have been increased in number making it very difficult for a single jabo aircraft to nullify capture ability of an Airfield, and limit fast fighter aircraft to defend the Airfield. However, if you take out the Airfield's Ordnance, then the enemy has no Ordnance for Attack or Bomber Aircraft, and you can limit the enemy response.
The downside is...taking out an Airfield's Ordnance does not affect that Airfield's ability to utilize Ground Vehicles (providing a spawn point exists) to continue to assault the Opposing Airfield with ground based fire. If the Vehicle Hangar at the enemy Airfield is taken down (2800 pounds of Ordnance required) it will only remain down for a maximum of 15 minutes (the same as any Fighter or Bomber Hangar at an Airfield).
So...the taking out of Ordnance affects aircraft...the taking out of the fuel limits fast fighters to 75%...and the taking out of the Vehicle Hangar (or Fighter, or Bomber Hangar) only lasts 15 minutes maximum time.
OH! The Radar! It's third on my list of Targets at an Airfield, and Ordnance is number One! What is number Two?
The Barracks...because they affect both the Air Game, and the Ground Game...Barracks supply Troops for capture attempts, both air and ground, and also, the supplies necessary to rebuild damaged ground vehicles, or airfields.
So, on my list of targets to hit, based upon a single jabo platform (my preference is the F4U Series of aircraft) I chose to limit my opponents' ability to take out my ability to bomb him (Ordnance), then his ability to capture me, or resupply himself (barracks), and then his ability to see me performing the first two acts (why waste Ordnance on a single target that cannot bomb, resupply, or capture you).
Just some thoughts.
<S>
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Additionally...after I've released my Ordnance and have been holed by much ack, or opposing aircraft, or not,...I will fight to the best of my ability with what I have left.
I don't belive in the "Pork 'n' Die" concept, although, I die very often to ack trying to accomplish my mission.
The very nice thing about a Corsair is that once it is free of Ordnance...it becomes a Fighter...and I do get lucky, sometimes. ;-)
<S>
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They get their gvs bombed.
So the act of porking is just a response by those who want to fight, being attacked? Why attack the ords, when you could attack the guys bombing you? I will say again that ords porking has it's place, but it is not a replacement for fighting the bad guys. This is one of those odd things about this game. I am not condemning it, just having trouble wrapping my head around it.
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Best Jabo to dive bomb an airfield with is the Corsair. I second that. Second best is the Hellcat. If you use a Jug then just shoot a hole in your main tank before you dive and save the enemy the trouble. Until they fix that damage model I'll never fly Jugs much. The 38 is fairly good but fragile and you get a lot of pilot wounds. I like the 38 to take out a VH due to its climb rate. The Mossie is a fine Jabo and the Typhie does well too.
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So the act of porking is just a response by those who want to fight, being attacked? Why attack the ords, when you could attack the guys bombing you? I will say again that ords porking has it's place, but it is not a replacement for fighting the bad guys. This is one of those odd things about this game. I am not condemning it, just having trouble wrapping my head around it.
Was actually meant as a joke.
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Was actually meant as a joke.
Roger that dunnrite. I understood it that way. There is some truth in it though.
<Salute>
Fuel on Airfields cannot be reduced below 75% now...and Barracks and Acks have been increased in number making it very difficult for a single jabo aircraft to nullify capture ability of an Airfield, and limit fast fighter aircraft to defend the Airfield. However, if you take out the Airfield's Ordnance, then the enemy has no Ordnance for Attack or Bomber Aircraft, and you can limit the enemy response.
The downside is...taking out an Airfield's Ordnance does not affect that Airfield's ability to utilize Ground Vehicles (providing a spawn point exists) to continue to assault the Opposing Airfield with ground based fire. If the Vehicle Hangar at the enemy Airfield is taken down (2800 pounds of Ordnance required) it will only remain down for a maximum of 15 minutes (the same as any Fighter or Bomber Hangar at an Airfield).
So...the taking out of Ordnance affects aircraft...the taking out of the fuel limits fast fighters to 75%...and the taking out of the Vehicle Hangar (or Fighter, or Bomber Hangar) only lasts 15 minutes maximum time.
OH! The Radar! It's third on my list of Targets at an Airfield, and Ordnance is number One! What is number Two?
The Barracks...because they affect both the Air Game, and the Ground Game...Barracks supply Troops for capture attempts, both air and ground, and also, the supplies necessary to rebuild damaged ground vehicles, or airfields.
So, on my list of targets to hit, based upon a single jabo platform (my preference is the F4U Series of aircraft) I chose to limit my opponents' ability to take out my ability to bomb him (Ordnance), then his ability to capture me, or resupply himself (barracks), and then his ability to see me performing the first two acts (why waste Ordnance on a single target that cannot bomb, resupply, or capture you).
Just some thoughts.
<S>
This is a great explanation Patches and actually makes sense. You are porking as part of the fight, instead of porking for the sake of porking.:aok Or worst yet, porking to stop people from attacking you while you are trying to fight. :huh
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WoW! Hehehe...not sure how to respond, waystin2, <grin>, but, yes, I suppose the "act of porking" is a fight against those who want to fight (but I'm not quite sure just how you mean this). However, if you are specifically addressing bombers, then, again, yes, I fight Bombers by taking away their ability to Bomb me.
On the other hand...I love a very good fighter/bomber duel at altitudes of 20-30K. You may even begin to believe that I am setting up just such a scenario by limiting the availabilty of ordnance. By doing so...I may predict where yours bombers may come from and plot a path to meet them...on the other hand...I'm probably not that good.
Just a thought...
<S>
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I was thinking about harding the objects to maybe give heavy bombers more purpose since people when need more heavy bombloads,
no idea if it would work out that way
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If you use a Jug then just shoot a hole in your main tank before you dive and save the enemy the trouble.
so true - main fuel hit half the time I dive on a base (and I usually forget to leave 25% in the aux :rolleyes:). I know its a big target but it cant be that easy to hit doing 500+ ...
edit: as for stopping porkers ... wirble/osti :aok
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Generally porkers wont fight. They dive through and suicide. No fun there.
Surviving the run and then being able to fight is very exciting for me, or even fighting on the way in. I laugh everytime I kill someone while im still hvy as I proceed to target. :devil
I like p38 period. Even jabo, the 10 rockets gives you many options. Yes pilot is succeptable.
Rooks are in dire need of more porkers. Its not that hard to bring a hvy in. I will never stop porking. I am affecting the enemies ability to wage war on me and my countrymen. The one thing that I will not do is take down fighter hangars (well circumstances have to pretty extreme).
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Unless you take down all hangars your not affecting it much if any. Il2s and B25Hs can up and kill the gvs. Fighters can still fly and kill......
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Generally porkers wont fight. They dive through and suicide. No fun there.
My mind set when I pork is to ignore the fighters and destory the enemy's assests. And when I get shot down, there's a shiny new plane waiting for me back at the hanger. Lots of fun for me, also it tunes down the country channel complants that bases are being over run and no one is helping, making it more fun for me. I'm sorry that the opposite side of it doesn't have fun, but I pay 14.95 a month to have MY fun. If someone paid it for me, I would be sure to make it fun for them.
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Agreed..... If you can fight .. then fight..... if you can't... then pork. Something for everyone.
I laugh usually as I get a proxie and no real harm is done to the base. It can be defended till the hangars are down even with no bombs or dar.
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But I do both :aok
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Some might consider this attitude gamey because when the attacker has no desire for survival, interception and defense of an asset goes from being difficult to nigh impossible. Some might even consider deliberately kamikaze'ing over and over again to "take the base" and "win" the pretend war a tiny bit disrespectful of the men who actually died in the various horrible ways available to a combat pilot.
Or at least kind of silly.
My mind set when I pork is to ignore the fighters and destory the enemy's assests. And when I get shot down, there's a shiny new plane waiting for me back at the hanger. Lots of fun for me, also it tunes down the country channel complants that bases are being over run and no one is helping, making it more fun for me. I'm sorry that the opposite side of it doesn't have fun, but I pay 14.95 a month to have MY fun. If someone paid it for me, I would be sure to make it fun for them.
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Some might consider this attitude gamey because when the attacker has no desire for survival, interception and defense of an asset goes from being difficult to nigh impossible. Some might even consider deliberately kamikaze'ing over and over again to "take the base" and "win" the pretend war a tiny bit disrespectful of the men who actually died in the various horrible ways available to a combat pilot.
Or at least kind of silly.
Heh. At least.
- oldman
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Part of the problem is that the ammo bunkers are nicely grouped together. On a small base, it takes just one pass with a cannon plane to take out the ords.
I think that more bunkers should be added to all fields and dispersed all around the field, forcing the single porker to have to make multiple passes to take out the ords. This would allow some sort of defense against the porker, and if a defense cannot be formed quick enough, the auto-ack should make the task difficult at best.
If a side wants to take out the ords at any airfield, it should require a concerted effort of multiple aircraft to accomplish the task. When 1 plane can disable any strat so easily ... something is wrong.
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Part of the problem is that the ammo bunkers are nicely grouped together. On a small base, it takes just one pass with a cannon plane to take out the ords.
If a side wants to take out the ords at any airfield, it should require a concerted effort of multiple aircraft to accomplish the task. When 1 plane can disable any strat so easily ... something is wrong.
Sometimes I dive-bomb the ord, but because I value patience and survivability, more often I level-bomb it because I'm one of the few that has the patience to do so. One pass on small airfield. One pass on medium airfield (can kill radar in line also). Two passes on large airfield. Even fast moving Ki67's work. I am very rarely intercepted while porking, even at 8K. I might get one kill in a sortie before landing.
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Sometimes I dive-bomb the ord, but because I value patience and survivability, more often I level-bomb it because I'm one of the few that has the patience to do so. One pass on small airfield. One pass on medium airfield (can kill radar in line also). Two passes on large airfield. Even fast moving Ki67's work. I am very rarely intercepted while porking, even at 8K. I might get one kill in a sortie before landing.
My post was directed more at the 190 "suicide wonders" in the MW, not bombers. At the same time, you have also pointed out that a single set of level bombers or single bomber can wreak havoc with the current alignment of the strats on an airfield.
If I was running a base (small airfield as an example), I surely wouldn't have all my ammo bunkers (all 2 of them :rolleyes:) and radar so nicely lined up so that a single pass (by fighter or bomber) could render my field useless.
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If I was running a base (small airfield as an example), I surely wouldn't have all my ammo bunkers (all 2 of them :rolleyes:) and radar so nicely lined up so that a single pass (by fighter or bomber) could render my field useless.
Good point. Revising the ord huts to 3 - small field, 4 - medium field, 5 - large field and spreading them out as suggested would be my wish.
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At the same time, you have also pointed out that a single set of level bombers or single bomber can wreak havoc with the current alignment of the strats on an airfield.
Like this? First pass, take down two fighter hangars, turn around and take down the offset fighter hangar and vehicle hangar. Base effectively closed except for defenders in Il-2s, all in 5 minutes and accomplished by a single player.
If there were no drones, only the Lancaster would have enough ords for a single pilot to do this.
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Good point. Revising the ord huts to 3 - small field, 4 - medium field, 5 - large field and spreading them out as suggested would be my wish.
More like ... 5 ... 6 ... 7 ... sounds good to me.
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Some might consider this attitude gamey because when the attacker has no desire for survival, interception and defense of an asset goes from being difficult to nigh impossible. Some might even consider deliberately kamikaze'ing over and over again to "take the base" and "win" the pretend war a tiny bit disrespectful of the men who actually died in the various horrible ways available to a combat pilot.
Or at least kind of silly.
lol ....... I got 24 kills in a 5" gun on our CV last night.... 3 gamey types kept upping PTs dumping torps then bailing. We turned the CV and no ships were ever hit.
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They did the same thing with fighter hangars on small field from AH1 to 2. They were in a line and all 3 could be taken in a single pass. I think things shouls stay as they are. If not in 38, I will drop from b17s also.
Shuff, you got a problem with me bro? Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder there dude. I may not be as good as you in the 38, but I will fight in it. I will fight you also anytime you want.
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How hard would it be to have a couple of different designs for each size airfield? Then the incoming porker couldn't just home in on a known point.