Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Eagler on December 22, 2008, 07:43:36 AM
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Just grabbed an AGP HIS HD 3850 video card from newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161225 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161225)
I am upgrading from a nvidia evga 7800 gs.
I removed the nvidia drivers using windows add/remove and installed the 8.12 hotfix for WinXp from here:
http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31625 (http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31625)
Computer started fine but the card doesn't seem any faster, if as fast as the 7800gs.
What settings do you use in the ati control panel for AA and such?
I have an Operton dual core with 2 gig of system ram on an asus mb.
thanks for any suggestions.
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From everything I've read there should be a pretty big difference. I usually use a 3rd party driver cleaner but what you did should work.
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What are you using the 'bench' how fast the game is? Aces High isn't a proper benchmark as its video card requirements are not all that high. If you have any other games like Company of Heroes, Call of Duty, Far Cry, etc... I'd try those since they are quite a bit more intensive in the graphics department.
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The card really will not be faster as far as FPS. Even if you run unlimited your FPS will be the same as your refresh rate unless you unlock vsync which is not recommended. I run a 1 G GTX280 and I run 60FPS. Thats it 60 but it pretty much runs 60 anywhere in the game (low/high, busy areas). I did unlock vsync in DA and saw over 500FPS but this is not recommended. All my settings are maxed. I have a pretty stout system and one of best vid cards out. I bench about 15,000 3dmark06 and 554 fps freestone video card stability test.
There is software to benchmark your card. I use 3dmark06. Here is a free utility by freestone:
http://freestone-group.com/video-card-stability-test.htm
As far as anti alias, you need to play around with your settings. Crank em up all the way and play AH. If you experience any stuttering back em down a bit. Same thing with hi res pack. Run it and if you have problems don't run it. It is kinda like a honeymoon. See what she likes!
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thanks for the replies
I am just comparing it in AH. I am only getting in the 30's for frame rate if there is any action going on and it seems jerkier than the old card.
I am using the hi res pack as I was on the nvidia card but it seems to chug more now than before.
What 3rd party driver cleaner can I use to make sure all the nvidia stuff has been removed?
I tried benchmark with 2dmark06 which worked witht eh nvidia card but doesn't seem to want to start with the new card even when I re-installed it.
The monitor is a dell 24" lcd so I cap the fr at 60 but only see that when alone down low or cruising above the clouds.
vsync is on as i have always had it on.
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Ok with ATI, I believe you need to clean drivers. This was a major problem for me as I bought 2 -3870(512) cards and crossfired them. A lot of guys that used the 3000 and 4000 series were having driver problems. I returned cards and went 4870 x 2 and had other headaches. Returned it and am a happy Nvidea gtx280 user!
OK. 1st thing, make sure you download the latest ATI drivers and save them to your desktop. DO NOT INSTALL THEM. In your add/remove programs there is a ATI unistall utility for vid drivers. Unistall then reboot computer. After reboot install new drivers and catalyst. YOU DO NOT NEED A "DRIVER CLEANER" but it won't hurt.
Get your device manager up and make sure drivers are gone after running uninstall utility.
Good Luck!
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OOOh you may need net2.0 also!!!!! to install!!!!!!
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!!!!!!
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have net dot something installed in my xp already - the catalyst app opens properly
I'll try to clean out the drivers with a driver cleaner in safe mode and try to reinstall the hotfix again and see if it helps
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Eagler please forgive Fulmar... He likes to follow me around(looking over shoulder). Let me know what happens. I went through this with my 3870. It was simple but a pain. Remember there is an uninstall in add/remove programs.
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Make sure you have the proper AGP driver also installed.
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AGP driver? how can I tell which driver I am using and if it is the proper one?
Check the asus board and didn't see an agp driver..
I cleaned out the drivers again with driver pro and installed the 8.12 hotfix drivers.
I then started up AH and got the spinning clipboard so I re-installed the amd dual core patch.
that got rid of the spinning clipboard but now the computer locks solid after about 10 minutes of flying - have to hit the reset button to get out of the lock up.
any more suggestions?
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Call HIS Tech support?
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I think this "upgrade" was more of a laterial move. AGP is gonna max out on the game no matter the card...
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You did plug in the extra power plug in the back of the card right? The AGP interface doesn't supply enough power to fully operate the GPU of the card, so it needs extra power from your PSU. It's located on the top right of this picture:
(http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-161-225-04.jpg)
The card should have also come with this Power Cable if your PSU does not have a PCI-E adapater.
(http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/14-161-225-09.jpg)
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I used the power adapter that came with it. I have a good ps - 550 watt so I don't think its the problem - it fixed my low 12v amps with the 7800gs I'm trying to upgrade. I have a new 750watt ps I'm gonna try next.
TilDeath - you don't think the card is enough of an upgrade to see an improvement in AH?
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Eagler your power supply should be just fine. ATI cards are not as power dependent as Nvidea.
Here are a few quotes from Inquirer testing
The only other real nag with the driver installation was that once the HDMI Audio Out feature was activated, it automatically redirected your audio without some much as a “thank you, sir” ? so you have to go to your sound devices and reselect your output.
The question remains, however. If you have an ailing AGP system, should you buy this card or not? Well, if you have no plans on buying a new PC until the end of the year, we’d say the HD 3850 PCS AGP 512MB is a sure bet ? it’ll get you up and playing the current generation of games at resolutions and image quality you’ve never experienced before on your system. It’s a tad bit expensive, though ? and you don’t get much out of the box, software-wise.
Just remember, this is about all ATI’s partners can do to improve your performance, short of you going out and buying a modern PC. The HD 3850 AGP gives your midget Pentium something to stand on in a world of Core2/Athlon/Phenom giants. If you are one of the latter, do not mock the 3850 on AGP, it scores 900% better than our old Geforce FX5900 and almost 800% better than our Radeon 9700Pro. You can rest assured your AGP rig has a year's worth of gaming left in it.
The Good
Enough performance to play today’s games, ZeroTherm fan is way better than your old AGP dustbusters, HDMI with HD Audio out.
The Bad
Big card, pricey.
The Ugly
No Vista / DX10 support.
It may be a step up from your 7900 but if it is probably not a lot.
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I used the power adapter that came with it. I have a good ps - 550 watt so I don't think its the problem - it fixed my low 12v amps with the 7800gs I'm trying to upgrade. I have a new 750watt ps I'm gonna try next.
TilDeath - you don't think the card is enough of an upgrade to see an improvement in AH?
Contrary to some comments, the ATI 3850 is actually a pretty good card, even the AGP version. You just need to make sure that you are using the ATI 8.12 AGP Hot fix drivers (http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31625). Also, that article that was quoted in the post above mine, it's incorrect. The ATI 3850 has full Vista support, it has to as it is a DirectX 10.1 compatible video card.
Your power supply should be fine and most likely is not the issue. I would guess that you need to make sure that you are doing a clean install of the drivers. In the Add/Remove section in your control panel, run the ATI Uninstaller program and follow the directions. Afterwards, reboot your computer. When it reboots, the Add New Hardware wizard will start, hit 'Cancel' to stop it from running. If you haven't already downloaded the hot fix drivers do so now (save it to your desktop). Double click on the hotfix driver .exe file and follow the instructions to install the drivers. Reboot your computer and then adjust the settings to your liking.
You've probably already done this but make sure that your AGP port speed is set to 8x speed. This can be done in your BIOS.
Hope this helps.
ack-ack
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ATI 3850 AGP has vista issues with some games. 3850 AGP does have some bottleneck problems. I don't know if I would count on full vista support on a AGP release of a current card although it is nice to see ATI either trying to help AGP users or simply trying to take your money.
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ATI 3850 AGP has vista issues with some games. 3850 AGP does have some bottleneck problems. I don't know if I would count on full vista support on a AGP release of a current card although it is nice to see ATI either trying to help AGP users or simply trying to take your money.
Our own compatibility lab has fully tested out the ATI 3850 card in Vista and they found no issues with it after testing it out on 5 different systems, each with different hardware configurations. The only issues that popped up were general Vista issues not related to the video card itself. We found less issues with the ATI 38xx line of cards than we did with the ATI 48xx line, the 4870 x2 being the one we had the most issues with under Vista.
ack-ack
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thanks a bunch
I re-did the process and removed ALL references to any ati or nividia driver using driver cleaner in safe mode.
I then rebooted and installed the ati hotfix driver set and all seems well. I think my opteron 170 is the bottleneck now.
The computer is stable again and it is faster.
thanks again for all the help <S>
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Our own compatibility lab has fully tested out the ATI 3850 card in Vista and they found no issues with it after testing it out on 5 different systems, each with different hardware configurations. The only issues that popped up were general Vista issues not related to the video card itself. We found less issues with the ATI 38xx line of cards than we did with the ATI 48xx line, the 4870 x2 being the one we had the most issues with under Vista.
ack-ack
Older single core CPU's will bottleneck with this card(AGP). It has been proven in many tests. It is fact. Vista uses way more resources and older CPU's will benchmark up to 20% slower than XP. The CPU simply cannot keep up(the card can) with "Newer" title games and games that rely on higher CPU usage and Vista will definitely not help it. Crysis players have bottomed out in low single digit FPS. This card is a decent thing for some who have "Newer" AGP technology and it probably will be a improvement over 5000/6000 Nvidea series cards and older ATI AGP cards. It probably will be a lateral move from the Nvidea 7000 series but no comparisons have been published. Consider it a quick fix until the user updates to a new computer.
The PCIE version of the 3850 seems to be good. I had the 3870 for a short while and the performance was nice. I benchmarked almost 13,000 in 3Dmark06 with a AMD 9850 BE with a MSI K9A2 MB. If the 3850 performs like the 3870. I would say its a nice card and well worth the $. If I read this post correctly, we were commenting on 3850 AGP.
Eagler, I think you may be correct in your analysis. Try running lower textures and go for more performance rather than quality.
Ack, can you publish those results and what software/games it was tested with? (AGP)