Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Creamo on August 12, 2000, 10:43:00 PM
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Im sure this has been discussed, but not when I ever saw it.
So really, why with all the howling about realism and the Luftwobbles so viciously serious about their rides, are the guages in 109's and the like in English? I would have suspected a witchhunt not unlike the anti-CHog coalition. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Anyway. it seems like it's a ART thing, so why not have the option to load accurate art, or choose the easy to read but fantasy cockpits we have now?
I think for user appeal, that a choice is the answer because alot of people may have a hard time with authentic guages. I understand the give and take of authenticity there. Still, if there was 2 art options, EVERYone would be happy. And when you concider the majority of the players here tend to be hardcore simmers, it would be most appreciated.
I for one want to have everything realistic as possible for the experience and immersion of WWII fighter combat. ( Engine managment is another thread)- Since I spend hours and hours looking at the cockpit, I wish it was realistic.
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Im sure this has been discussed, but not when I ever saw it.
So really, why with all the howling about realism and the Luftwobbles so viciously serious about their rides, are the guages in 109's and the like in English? I would have suspected a witchhunt not unlike the anti-CHog coalition. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Anyway. it seems like it's a ART thing, so why not have the option to load accurate art, or choose the easy to read but fantasy cockpits we have now?
I think for user appeal, that a choice is the answer because alot of people may have a hard time with authentic guages. I understand the give and take of authenticity there. Still, if there was 2 art options, EVERYone would be happy. And when you concider the majority of the players here tend to be hardcore simmers, it would be most appreciated.
I for one want to have everything realistic as possible for the experience and immersion of WWII fighter combat. ( Engine managment is another thread)- Since I spend hours and hours looking at the cockpit, I wish it was realistic.
Translation : Where's my fuzzy dice?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
- Jig
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Hehe. When I used to fly MS CMBT SIM I used the German and British dialog mods from Microsoft. It made the Brits sound....British, and the German...well it was in German!
Very cool mod. I had much fun, even though my German language skills are kaput.
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Lol yeah. I thought the Germans used the Metric system in their planes, not the Imperial system. Its funny to see 109's and 190's using ft and mph gauges (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Sometimes I wonder how many players in AcesHigh there is from different countries.
Maybe we can get a status on that Pyro?
For me and a lot of others the metric system is not a strange foreign thingy, but the system we use everyday and have on our backbone.. The european planes should offcourse have the metric system.. I dont know what the russian and japanese planes have, but they should have the original gauges too.
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GrinBird
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Russians and Japanese both used the Metric system, although the description of the gauges were in another alphabet (Cyrilic for the russians. I don't know the name for the japanes one).
On the other hand the russians didn't replace the gauges on their Lend-Lease planes, such as the P-39s, spits and hurricanes, but kept them in the original form.
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"Head-ons are for pilots that don't know what their next move should be"
Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
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I'm equally comfortable with either unit system, so it doesn't bother me. But it would be nice to have the option of SI or US units for each airplane. WarBirds lets you choose between US or SI units and it also has a setting where each plane has the "historically correct" unit system.
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I'd like historically correct gauges too, please!
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Heh, after years of playing sims, I am more comfortable with the imperial system, for altitude. But not speed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
But, overall, the metric system is superior, and I think most engineers will agree on this. Makes calculations easier.
32F for ice melting point? Who came up with that? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Not even the Americans fault.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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32 is Ice freezing point...33 is ice melting point.... Mother nature, who I believe started this, is from California..... I think since margarine and offshore drilling she just live in Mendocino and grows pot
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maddog,
I resemble that remark!!!
(I grew up in Mendocino (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
Sisu
-Karnak
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Actually both the SI And US temperature scales are both equally worthless for engineering calculations. Absolute temperature (Kelvin or Rankine) is all that matters.
The only dislike I have of US units is that there is no distinction between the units of weight and mass. Pounds are used for both, while SI has Grams and Newtons.
It's not a problem for me to deal with it in my own work, but trying to explain it to students... EEESHHH
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Originally posted by funked:
Actually both the SI And US temperature scales are both equally worthless for engineering calculations. Absolute temperature (Kelvin or Rankine) is all that matters.
The only dislike I have of US units is that there is no distinction between the units of weight and mass. Pounds are used for both, while SI has Grams and Newtons.
It's not a problem for me to deal with it in my own work, but trying to explain it to students... EEESHHH
Foot-pounds or meter-newtons...THAT is the question. Let's ask Torque.
- Jig
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Yeah - historical gauges please... I just cannot get a hold of the MPH thingy - how many feet are one yard? Ask me!??! Please bring us the metric system. I know 654km/h are FAST!!! And while we're at it... historical ammo counters too... hehehe, one more advantage for us who like to fly Real Mens Planes (tm)... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Kirin
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While you're at it, historical ammo counters (or lack thereof).
Even EAW got that bit right.
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Well?
I know HT can't respond to me online or here, but can someone ask this question so we know?
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Creamo;
As my memory serves HTC's answer was kind of like --> "We don't want to!"
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"hehehe...I like this thread squealing Bastids!"
SOB
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Your memory serves you well Mino
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metric please!!!!!
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Oberstleutnant LJK_KämpferAs
Kommandeur von II Gruppe
ExecutivOffizier von LuftJägerKorps
www.LuftJagerKorps.com
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btw.... 654km/h is fast (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
and the Japanese use Romanji(English alphabet), Hirigana(sounding/foriegn 'alphabet' ), Katakana(Japanese 'alphabet' ), and kanji(Japanese 'word' characters) for there guages.
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Oberstleutnant LJK_KämpferAs
Kommandeur von II Gruppe
ExecutivOffizier von LuftJägerKorps
www.LuftJagerKorps.com
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I agree - historical instruments are a must - or at least have metric measurements. I'd also favour authentic ammo counters - but this would mean that no Allied or Japanese aircraft would have any form of counter, AFAIK (?)
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There are multiple resones we will not be doing non english gauges.
1. It realy does create confusion when you start mixing units in one arena. Think of calling alt's of bogies, your manifold pressure or speed to a wingman.
2. If you setup what the real planes have it makes it much harder to switch between planes. This might sound like immersion but tend's to just be a tedious conversion in head task.
3. Assuming we must standardize on one unit, we choose the one with which our bigest market is most familar with (English).
4. Increase in download size.
5. Time in making multiple gauge sets.
HiTech
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Its actually an eliteist Oportunistic American Conspiracy to make all the fun loving Europeans switch back to the old Imperial measurement system. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Uhmmm...
Our largest selling technical magazine "World of Technic" just let us know they're not gonna tell horsepowers anymore; Only KiloWatts.
Also they tested what is really a hp: in short time pull a "Finnish horse" (used in coutry work) can achieve 28 hp power (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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HiTech:
What about realistic ammo counters, or lack thereof?
Pretty pleeeeease? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
Its actually an eliteist Oportunistic American Conspiracy to make all the fun loving Europeans switch back to the old Imperial measurement system. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
That is very true Verm, plus we halted those fun loving Europeans attempts to assimilate us through their diabolical scheme using that Metric mole Jimmy Carter....whew thank goodness he didn't suceed with his dastardly plan.
Cobra
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hitech, some of your reasons are pretty arrogant. Some of the same kind of reasoning that makes us Americans such villains in other parts of the world.
It doesn't *matter* that most of your market is "familiar" with english. Just the reason that certain planes DID have metric guages is reason enough to model them. It's a real burst to suspension of disbelief when I'm flying a 109 and trying to convert MPH to KPH in my head. I don't see why we CAN'T have a choice.
Confusion???? Give me a break. A few people ask questions about kilometers/feet/miles in *name of sim omitted*, but it doesn't do more than cause a message or two more in the buffer. No more than people asking what "Horrido" or "Jabo" means. As for making it hard to switch between planes, we can each make that decision ourselves, can't we???
As to download size, I'll have to defer to you on that, but what are we talking? A few K? Or are you saying you have to have different versions of the entire metric cockpit, rather than change the art in the gauge circles themselves (which would be a good reason, I grant ya)?
As for time, you people seem to be doing a FINE job of releasing updates. This would set you back THAT far???
Sorry to have to get in yer face on this, but as I said, your answer was a bit presumptious; and I thought that earlier post that said your position on this issue was, "Cuz we don't WANT to" was a joke. Now I'm not so sure.
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Ok Stiglr explain how any of my resones were arrogant?
HiTech
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allllllllrighty....
It realy does create confusion when you start mixing units in one arena. Think of calling alt's of bogies, your manifold pressure or speed to a wingman.
This assumes we're too stupid to do the math or work things out. If you were adding a feature that wasn't in the real planes, then I wouldn't argue with you. The devil's in the details with sims.
If you setup what the real planes have it makes it much harder to switch between planes
This also assumes we're too stupid or lazy to figure it out, or do what it takes to adjust.
I can't really argue your "main market" point, *if* we have to assume we can only have one standard. But, the "the whole world speaks English, don't they?" attitude is at the heart of the Ugly American image.
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Who cares about the ugly american image. you do, but that does not change the fact that most of the world speaks more than 1 language and English is normaly a secondary language. English can be found in more places than any other single language. Doesn't matter if it gives us americans an ugly imperialistic image. Truth is truth. Besides, somehow as americans we do not need to learn a second language, wherelse in europe 2 languages are the norm.
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WarChild
VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Where's the Charmin!"
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Originally posted by funked:
The only dislike I have of US units is that there is no distinction between the units of weight and mass. Pounds are used for both, while SI has Grams and Newtons.
Doesn't the US system use slugs for mass?
Badboy
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Stiglr those statements assume nothing of the sort, confusion and harder are not terms that say people can't do somthing.
Mearly adding another step at anything does make it harder.
Not being able to say im at 18k with out adding a unit Or haveing to ask the other person what system hes talking about does make it more confusing.
Just because people can make the conversion dosn't meen that they should have to.
These items fall under the area of what we are trying to create. A Air Combat simulator that uses WWII aircraft.
We are not trying to simulate all the systems in a WWII plane like a eng start check list ectera. Gauges fall into the same grey area.
What it comes down to as I see your post is that you belive the imersion factor out ways the having to convert and confusion factors.
I belive the flip side of that statment.
P.S.
In the future please try to keep your decussion to issues and not instantly start off with guessing a persons motives and starting off by way of a flame.
HiTech
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"Merely adding another step makes it harder??"
For a sim that's supposed to mirror reality, I can't buy that one *for this argument*. It's already harder to fly an AH plane than say, a Fighter Ace plane because AH is a high-fidelity sim, where realism and accuracy are held in high regard. As I said, I'd agree with you if we were debating adding metric guages to planes that didn't have them, just to say you did. That would be stupid. Having metric guages (or even a choice of having them) in the planes that *did* have them seems to me, is just "getting it right". Whether you have, say, the option of having metric guages while flying a P-51D, well, that falls more to the gray area you speak of. And I fully agree that you have to stop somewhere between abstracting things for play and getting things correct. However, when it comes to the dials and guages that are critical to the understanding the status of your plane, I don't think it's too much to ask to have metric gauges. I'll leave it at that.
I don't want you to take this debate as a personal attack. Sorry if you did, mea culpa.
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Ever consider using upgrade packs as alternate downloads? If I wanted to use German cockpits I could just download a 5 meg file with real-live historical cockpits in metric. Same goes for Russian, Japanese, British, or Italian aircraft. Some would love it, others wouldn't touch it.
The catch: is it worth your time, and effort, to pull off such a thing when only 30% or so would use them?
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
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Stiglr, beign European and having some American friends, you won't believe how often I get the question "well, hoiw much is 180cm in feet?" and similar questions.
When I am in Aces High, I'm there for the fun, not to respond to "how high is the enemy again, in feet please?"
I think many others feel the same way.
Historical guages would be nice, but really doesn't affect the fidelity of the flight model or anything else. More of a cosmetic thing.
That being said, I'd like to see 'um. Thos who cannot convert themselves would just not get an answer from me.
HT, what about historical ammo counters? Just gimme an aye or nay, and I shall go away without prostesting too much (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Agree with StSanta on ammo counters the rest is bull - it all revolves around the system people are comfortable with or, rather, most people...
If you fly in RL - you may have an issue if for some obscure reason your country is using metrics when the rest of the world is counting feet (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
If you don't - who cares which units you're using? 30K is "way too high for a normal person to climb up to", landing speed should be about 120 etc - you learn these things within a week. BTW, when WB went "realistic" gauges I personally found it very disorienting. Just think about it - the people who flew those planes in RL never had to hop from one into another and rake their brains for conversion tables.
Plus, in RL it's the sound of the wind, pressure from your seat to your bum etc to help you to judge, say, the approach speed, there's no real need to watch the gauges - all this is missing in a sim and working out conversions for speed/alt is IMHO totally unnecessary and boring (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
I have friends who still meticulously convert miles into kms - I quit doing this ages ago when I realised that it still takes under an hour to get to, say, London whether I use 55 miles or 88km to count the distance. Metrification is a con anyway (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
(p.s. I can add up - a degree in Physical Chemistry, and lived for 27 years in Russia - metrics all over the place (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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Metric system is my natural one. Nevertheless, I do not have problems with a system used in US (I do not think it is purely Imperial).
In WB it was very difficult to switch between the planes with different systems. My squadron 416RCAF flew mostly Spits, but when in scenarios we switched to LW as a favor to CM, I was at a huge disadvantage because of the metric system, despite it being my native one. Different scale threw me off. Of course people who flew only one type of plane had advantage here.
Many would not switch sides for balancing for exactly that reason.
There is a huge inherent unrealism in this sim - people flying different models of aircrafts in the same month or even hour, flying the airctaft of the different countries. Flying together and having to communicate with pilots flying aircraft of different countries.
So you can never simulate reality in this sim, but you can simulate a pilot's experience very close.
None of the real pilots had to do unit conversions in their heads. That was not a part of their experience.
If HTC spent time making multiple systems like WB, most americans would be pissed off.
If HTC spent more time making it configurable, most americans would just ignore the metric system.
And americans are the primary market for this game.
I am sure HTC would come up with a better solution or promised one for the future if it were awailable.
And stop whining about american influence and arrogance, for haven's sake. I am a european and it sickens me!
Nobody forces europeans to buy american products and services.
miko
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 09-14-2000).]
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Hmmm. Presumably the game engine "looks" somewhere to find the textures for the guages and whatnot. Presumably the textures themselves are imbedded somewhere.
Look at MS FS and CFS. You can find (and alter) most of the cockpit art. Why not just "extract" the guage files from the aircraft models, and let the PLAYERS create new ones? Sorry, but I've been playing SDOE too long I guess, and I KNOW that the community has artists every bit as talented as the "pros." You could have realistic guages for every plane in the sim by next week IF the files were accessible.
I'll go even farther and say that the aircraft paint scheme files should be user-modifiable too.
There are several areas, IMO, where the community COULD have access to the code safely, and this is just one. HTC could retain as much "control" over the process as they wished by "sanctioning" artwork, or creating a small "users development group" that is permitted to work with the tools. Thus freeing up the real programmers to make new plane models, new maps, etc.
--jedi
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With all due respect, Jedi and Stigler, but you two were part of the 'very negative toward AH' crowd just months ago, why should you care? Thought WB's was your knack?
BTW, out of curiosity, were either of you two in the 'first year' of WB's? (CK)(I'm guessing "no" because most that fly AH understand that this product will only get better, as WB's did, and most of us flying are of the 'Optimistic' mentality)
When we came from AW to CK (WB's), CK was FAR from perfect, but alot of us saw an opportunity to 'add' our opinion to how the flight sim could be developed, Killer, HT, Pyro, Cali, and more "listened" and developed the fine product you have today called Warbirds. Now, we have the same opportunity to do that today with AH, so saying "Until this or that is fixed, I won't take this sim seriously" is very tasteless, after all, if you're going to help them develope the game, you have to substantiate your claims by flying the sim on a regular basis rather than trying it for a day or two...then waiting for another update..get what I mean? The Warbirds you have today is due to 'user-feedback' in a positive manner.
(Rip gets off of soapbox)
In regards to the thread, it would be nice to have an option patch to convert the A/C into metric for our Euro-counterparts, but I personally think HTC's money is better spent adding new A/C and feature today, and focus on smaller issues as this later on.
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO= VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Know your limits and then go beyond.."
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/vmf323inquirer.html)
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(http://ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort323.gif)
I spare no class or cult or creed,
My course is endless through the year.
I bow all heads and break all hearts,
All owe homage-I am Fear.
-------------General Patton
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-14-2000).]
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All I have to say about all this is, it's real easy to say "Oh, just go with what MOST people use" when you're in that camp yourself. I spend almost 100% of my flying time in German iron and am now more used to metric than Imperial (at least for flying). And, I always stand by "...because that's how it WAS" as an irrefutable defense. It's not like I'm asking for an aide or a feature that wasn't there in the first place. But, as kids are wont to say these days, whatever.
And Rip, no matter how vocal or pro-WB I am, I'm still a paying AH customer (at least, for now). So, like it or not, I have and will voice my opinion. Don't be so thin-skinned and parochial: you will notice in your forays to AGW that I'm just as critical about WB issues as AH ones. And the day I feel AH is the better sim for me, I'll move in a second. I'm not a "blind" WB fan. I call 'em as I see 'em, no matter which sim I'm talking about.
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Jedi - just think about it: 6 people (six!!!) knocked out a product that is miles ahead of things like MS CFS.
Customer-designed cockpits/skins is a workable idea, same as customised sounds/gunsights... But I guess that this would require a major re-design of the graphics engine to allow for a customised cockpit (say) to be incorporated into AH (preventing at the same time obvious thing like making it transparent etc (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)).
It's a question of available resources I think...
It would be really great though - HTC could then concentrate on core issues like actual FM, gunnery etc and plane "skins" can be created for a scenario or smth... Hmmm... I like it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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Stig, thought (by the sarcastic tone of previous posts both AGW and AH) that you were not a paying member. Apologies for 'assuming' that.
Anyway, my point is this: HTC has a way to go in AH, and by giving them positive feedback (and not rediculing<SP> ) in these forums will only enhance the product, as it did in CK(WB's).
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Ripsnort, asking for metric gauges for aircraft that really had them, as an enhancement, IS positive feedback, n'est pas?
As for the pros and cons of "ridicule", sometimes it's the only way to get a point thru certain thick heads. Just a few days ago, after bitter and acrimonious debates, some of us "negative people" FINALLY got Warbirds to look into their totally inconsistent 30mm. They checked, they hemmed, they hawed, they read research from the horse's mouth....they finally had to agree that it was porked. And God love 'em they *fixed* it (at least I think they did, have to wait until the Late War rolls back around to see for myself; but early testing by those who give a hoot says it's been fixed). We've been griping steadily about the 30mm for almost a full year now. If we'd been gentlemen the whole time, we would have been simply ignored; in fact, we *were* ignored most of the time when we complained vigorously, or just raised a point. Squeaky wheel gets the grease sometime.
Lynx, per your MSCFS comment, I have to say their cockpit art is the best I've seen *ever* in any sim. It looks like old, beatup military equipment with none of that glossy, fake Pixar look or any of the cartoonish look. It looks like the *real* cockpits I've had the pleasure to sit in. I wish more sims took their tack. Alas, that's about the only thing about that game that draws my attention.
[This message has been edited by Stiglr (edited 09-15-2000).]
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Stigler:"hitech, some of your reasons are pretty arrogant. Some of the same kind of reasoning that makes us Americans such villains in other parts of the world."
Then I suggest if you think your posts are positive feedback, you need to re-think your logic on how you portray them, after all, if you stick to facts, rather than opinions and self-motivation, you may get results faster and more efficient.
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self-motivation??? Pot calling the kettle black, rip, judging from your posts at AGW, mmmmm?
Look, you don't like my writing style. Fine. I don't like your hypocrisy. Fine. At least I'm consistent in both places. I praise what I like, I pan what I don't, and I don't mince words.
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Stiglr - it's always bugged me how much time our ancestors must have spent making sure that everything they made looked like "old, beatup military equipment with none of that glossy, fake Pixar look or any of the cartoonish look" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
Look in any museum/movie/whatever that stupidly (IMHO) cries for "authenticity" - do you really think that those Spits, 109s, 38s etc were coming out of the factories with scratched cockpits? Did they all back then listened to the radios which looked like they were at least 50 years old or read books "staright outta antique book store"? The only chance for most of those planes to get a scratch in a cockpit would be when a 20mm shell exploded next to it having gone through an armour plate and a pilot first... Most of them simply didn't live long enough to acquire that "pseudo-authentic" old-warhorse look.
BTW - when I mentioned MS CFS I was referring to the actual flight and gunnery modelling of the darn thing, not the graphics - but the art is crappy too - I wrote a long piece on AGW about it when CFS first came out listing all the "inadequacies".
Once again - 6 people of HTC vs MS backed team producing commercial (boxed game) product... Err.. Umm... Sorry MS team - better luck next time.
I still think that the very first 3D models in WB looked the best. FT crafted magic on those planes - they looked real enough to touch. (Granted, they didn't have moving control surfaces, 3D cockpits etc... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
Was watching BoB programs yesterday - airshows at Duxford, Biggin Hill etc - there was a 109E there beautifully restored to it's original condition (the only flying 109E?). It looked authentic, it looked like new - as it did 60 years ago...
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 09-18-2000).]
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Well, I've seen pics of 109's at the eastern front. They sure dinnae look new (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Straight outta the factory maybe but after just a few weeks of use, wear starts showing. Ground grews doing their thing, landings on dirt runways, you get the picture (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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If the gauges aren't metric, why is the distance shown in the icons measured in m/km?
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StSanta - fair comment (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). They were still new, right? Muddy and with oil/exhaust fumes smudges but new nevertheless? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
From the same point of view I can say that I've seen enough footage/photos/RL of P51 and they were not dull grey - polished aluminum isn't grey, is it? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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Jerry B, the distances are not marked in meters/kilometers, they are marked in yards.
When someone says "they were 2k out" they are referring, to two thousand yards.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Well, Stigler, you are correct, I *used* to promote AH in AGW only out of anger,(In the off-topic forum...funny how ya'll warm right up to GunJam when he promotes his game, hipocrasy at its finest...) since when back in Jan. I posted a question titled "And out of the sky into the tank column" where I asked what the WB's pilots thought of adding more strat to the game (More targets is more like it) and was attacked by AGW gang-bangers like yourself...consider it 'self-defense'...I have since aborted that behavior. NEVER ONCE did I critisize the game called Warbirds in any respect, it was my first love (Acutally DOS-AW was very first) and always will be.
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Originally posted by hitech:
(deleted)
What it comes down to as I see your post is that you belive the imersion factor out ways the having to convert and confusion factors.
(deleted)
HiTech
Well it's already the case for me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
When I'm reading the variometer I'm allways in meter/second or when I read the altimeter I'm thinking of meter ... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
even when I read the "badin" (speed meter ?) I'm not in the good unit (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Especially when I'm landing I almost get wrong 1/3 of the time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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hitech, some of your reasons are pretty arrogant. Some of the same kind of reasoning that makes us Americans such villains in other parts of the world.
Stiglr, get some therapy. You have lost the ability to communicate without antagonizing the other party. Surely you must realize your out of control. Good comms require a two way street. Veering into other's "faces", isn't helping you get your point across. It actually impedes it. See Bobby Knight's problems. Great coach! Nutty man.
Cya up...Braz
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HT,
I thought I would NEVER have to say this but I gotta agree with Stiglr here.
First WB has the proper gauges for all the aircraft and other than the rare occasion when someone has to ask a short conversion question it's never been a problem. I have never heard anyone complain about the gauges not all being english. And I would be willing to bet your paycheck there has never been a post to that effect on AGW.
Second, It sure seems to me that AH has quite a Euro following. At least it seems to me that the europeon players seem much of a presense than in WB (at least lately, WB sure seems to be empty during the peak euro hours) I see an awful lot of non-english in the buffer than I ever do in WB. Now don't get me wrong that's a good thing (more customers and all that) so I think that a lot of people would really benifit.
Third, I'm first and foremost an american and as such hate all things metric (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) But I gotta agree that english gauges in a FW or 109 is just kinda silly. It just seems to me to be a real sore thumb that sticks out in an other wise beautifully rendered sim.
Now if you just don't want to do them because of the extra work thats fine, it is after all your sim to do with as you please. But saying it's to hard for people to make the ajustment is kinda weak sorry.
Oh and Ripsnort, come on thats just lame. Yeah stiglr was a staunch critic of AH in the beginning and wiether you agreed with him or not, he is now, for what ever reason, giving Ace High an honest and fair appraisal and is trying to provide some constuctive critisisum <sp>. I can understand you may not like the way he says some things but to drag up that "You never liked AH anyway" stuff is just well...childish.
Sharky
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Well said Sharky!
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Well, Sharky, sorry for my attitude, its just that he's been one of the most negative critics of AH, falling short of MG's post by a smidge over the last 8 months, I hate pessimists. It's probably his "Aces Hobbled" comments he made in every post regarding AH that got to me.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 09-21-2000).]
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I'd just like to say.......I'm British, I'm 26 and therefore supposedly grew up being taught the metric system.
Bollocks.
I have parents and grandparents that never used the word "millimetres" in their lives. I think in feet, inches, miles, lbs, etc.
In fact I'd like to ditch the decimal currency system we use and go back to pounds, shillings and pence (purely to confuse the tourists) which is kinda strange for someone born after the change.
Swoop