Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Dawger on December 29, 2008, 02:14:53 PM
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I've been flying online for over 10 years now. I spent a long time in Warbirds and was deeply involved in the Historical Arena, Special Events and general arena maintenance. I was involved to the point I wrote scripts in Warbirds script language to the point of completely automating a real time 72 hour Battle of Britain event. Also I was a trainer forever as well. Thats just to say I'm no rookie to any of this.
I've been flying in Aces High for a few years now ( I changed my handle back to my Warbirds handle recently) and it is a much better game.
It does, however, suffer from some player induced issues I haven't seen as prevalent before.
There seems to be an epidemic of whining about leaving people alone to fly in a 1 v 1 fight in a MMOG arena.
The best analogy I've heard is the Bruce Lee analogy. You know the scene where the expert martial artist is surrounded by 50 bad guys. They all take turns fighting the master, allowing them to kick their butts one at a time.
I really like the history aspect of the game and enjoy flying as part of a team. My squadron and the camaraderie are why I fly at all nowadays. The Dueling Arena is always available for 1 v 1 and I enjoy some good fights in there occasionally.
So I go into the AvA today. When I log in there are two guys flying allied so I up a C-205 and go hunting. I find some B-17's at 100 feet over a friendly field and attack them, dying in the process. I up another 205 and find the other allied player in a heavy Pony and kill him. He ups a Spit and I kill him in that. He ups some B17's and I kill one before I get an oil leak and go land. As I land I see a P38 swooping the field. I up a 190A8 and see Lonmower get swooped and killed by the P38 (Fudgums) a mile off the end of the runway. I levelled for speed and put the autopilot on to adjust my views while keeping an eye on the P38. I whacked a tree while adjusting my views so I upped another 190.
The P38 and Lonmower are fighting right over the base now. He must have upped right after he got killed. He was doing ok but not obviously winning so I jump right in and proceed to kill the P38. I never thought this was going to provoke the rules godz of the AvA to stir to action. But, alas, I was wrong.
(http://home.comcast.net/~micelihouston/ahss3.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~micelihouston/ahss4.jpg)
I have always hated players trying to impose artificial rules. I've never understood it and, frankly, I take it as a sign of weakness to be exploited. My 30 minutes in the AvA is met with silly rules and insults.
Fudgums got his 1 v 1 with me a little while latter.
(http://home.comcast.net/~micelihouston/ahss5.jpg)
I think the AvA is suffering from a bunch of rules curmudgeons who can't have fun.
I have films as well. Maybe I will post my big gang/pick of fudgums for the AvA rules committee to judge.
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This isn't going to end well . . . :noid
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He does have a point.
I've been driven off from the AvA by similar attitudes for long periods of time, myself. Not counting last night (which was fun!) the last time I was on we had a bunch of gang banging going on, picking and near-vulching. I see somebody swoop in fast numerous times, he gets several kills. I pull the same tactic, get a little distance, come back 3-4k (fight on the deck) and get a kill on the earlier picker.
For my efforts I get called out on ch.200 as a picker dweeb BY the guy who had been doing it as a rule. Frankly, the hypocritical comments do get to be a bit much. Hopefully it's improving past this point, but change is slow I guess.
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I would have settled this over PMs
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I'm sympathetic to what you express here. That said, I think fudgums is merely repeating the supposed man-code that was imposed on the ava by others long ago. This isn't about any particular individual, but rather a set of ideas and, as you say in the thread title, attitude.
The culture of AH is very different from what Warbirds was years ago. This surprised me, but it's true. "Pick" wasn't even part of the Warbirds lexicon so far as I can remember. The intention to land a sortie was not looked down upon in the HA. Things are different here. <shrugs>
What I do know is that it's wrong to try to force others to play your way. There's no right way to have fun here when you pay for the privilege. :salute
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Dawger best thing to do is when you see a 1v1 is ask before joining in. People come in the AvA because of the smaller numbers and good fights. You don't want to see any "attitude" then show some respect instead of just trying to get another easy kill. If you do keep acting like you're flying in the MA just to land kills then I guarantee you will be driven out.
With that said, making a thread like this will only get you in trouble with the higher ups. I suggest editing it before its to late.
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1. Yes I did "pick" or have an altitude advantage. He made a few loops around the runway as well.
2. He upped again. This time I was lower and getting ready for a good fight. I get some pings on Lon. then he reveresed. Then I was about to reverse back on them. Then I see you just come on in at 200. When Im practically not moving. You blast me, Im dead.
3. The past weeks I've been flying in the AvA alot. yes there has been alot of tension. Yes there has been alot of arguements. But when ever theres 1v1. People dont gang. Last night for example. We got a new squadiee(Warmongo). He wasnt winning a fight against shifty. Me and Buster could of went down and ganged Shifty. I sent a PM to Shifty. To tell him not to worry about me and buster picking or ganging.
4. We had a 1v1 later. You got me you sent a <S> I sent one back
5. Another "Dweebish" rant because you can't get your kills or something. It is more of a respect thing for other players. I think it is for you. Especially your comments coming back at me and also posting on here. When you say I can do what I want because I pay. Well I pay to. I respect 1v1 and I dont gang. Getting in furballs is a different situation.
I have much more to say but im not. Its not worth my time
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I have yet to see the 1vs1 any time I fly in the AVA, instead I'll be jumped by anything red. That along with seeing vulching and everything else that is supposed to be looked down upon. I'll stay out of a 1v1 but the rules can go in the garbage.
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Whiteman when was the last time youve flown in there.
Cough btw F4uAs are enabled cough cough
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I would have settled this over PMs
I concur.
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Midway setup a few weeks ago. Vulched on take off, I finally get up only to have 3 a6ms on me. Before that the Okinawa setup, funny enough vulched while taking off from cv, ack was so light cv group ack was dead. When I finally get up I'm lucky to get 2v1 with of course 1 guy turning with me while the other using BNZ.
I'll be there later to check it out and expect to get ganged.
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Well... when ever I see a squaddie (or often even any other friendly) being o the losing side of a 1vs1, I will certainly intervene to save his butt. I could see no other way, unless it was a prearranged duel at DA, where other players are expected not to join.
If people want 1v1 fightes, they go to DA. Otherwise it is a WW2 MMPOLG, which usually means a multiple enemy environment. No mercy, no whining. It is up to everyone themselves if they dont lok after their own butts. People have forgotten how and when to disengage from a fight if other enemies arrieve to the scene. They act like target fixated bulls and follow their single target until they die.. or get a kill and then die from their bad position, when instead they could disengage and get into a better position to fight against both (or more) enemies... to kill them all and even return home with the kills :)
Only sore losers whine and the whining makes them sink even lower. As simple as that :devil That is why I hardly ever bother using ch200 for anything else than for a rare whim of entertainment/amazement of the "Whiners Low" - soap opera.
UGH - Me has spoken :P
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picking, hoing and ganging are part of the game
some do it all the time and some don't
some do it some of the time and some don't
some ask before stealing your kill and some don't
ppl 8 to 80 play this game the way they want to ... pay monthly to
live with it
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I noticed the same things....
The first few times I showed up it as interesting to say the least. There is definitely a "This is my sandbox." attitude.
Other than low numbers its abig reason why I dontfly there...
Steele
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If you do keep acting like you're flying in the MA just to land kills then I guarantee you will be driven out.
Another attitude that needs to go into the scrap pile. No paying customer should be driven out and there shouldn't be a drive em out attitude.
I'm sure dawger could have found a better way to express his displeasure then again I'm one to talk. ;)
The drive em out attitude has historically been one of the bigger problems IMHO.
Just saying.
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with all that said ... you do seem to be a vulching tool Dawg
your screenshots speak volumes of your actual ability in this game
hope to run into you there some day LOL
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I would have settled this over PMs
Sometimes ya just gotta grab the dog by the ears and give a good yank to get its attention.
:salute
:rofl :rofl This isn't going to end well . . . :noid
But he does make a point... If in a rambling manner.
I have to agree with him though. This is an MMOG. If you want 1v1 then take it to the DA where 1v1 is offered and respected. Trying making the AvA a mini-DA will bode no good for any of us.
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all in all, this is a INteresting thread :D
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This too shall pass. If you don't like the AvA don't fly there, goes for all sides of the argument.
No point in trying to make people play your way, again...goes for both sides of the argument.
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This too shall pass. If you don't like the AvA don't fly there, goes for all sides of the argument.
No point in trying to make people play your way, again...goes for both sides of the argument.
:aok :aok
Absolutely correct!
And if you want some 1v1 action... well you know where to go for that too. ;)
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Now that I have more than a passing minute . . .
I do have to ask, Dawger, if you had been asked to please stay out of the 1v1, whether you would have done so out of courtesy, or continued to carry your "it's my $15 bucks" attitude and stolen the guy's kill anyway? If you would have respected the request, great, that is a fine attitude to bring into the AvA (or anywhere else in AH). If not, then I have to say that IMO the "to hell with you, it's my $15 bucks" attitude is no better than those who expect you to fly by certain rules.
The numbers in the AvA are often too low for there to be a proper "fair fight." This is why many of the old timers cling to their "rules." Think about it -- if it is four on one and the four constantly dogpile, there is no reason for the one to stick around. He will leave, and the four will have nothing to do but look at each other. (After all, which of the four would dare switch when they know they will simply be on the receiving end of what he was just dishing out?) So, better and longer lasting fun for all if the four limit themselves to either 1v1 or 2v1s at most so their opponent at least feels like he has a chance, and therefore keeps upping.
Once the numbers are up a bit and there is a proper little furball going, then of course all "rules" are off. I don't think there are very many old timers who think that 4 planes running headlong into 4 planes must necessarily become 4 individual 1v1s. But three guys flying over a 1v1 in progress should have the courtesy not to dogpile IMO. That doesn't make it a DA by a different name, but does make it a place people can enjoy themselves. If they don't, they will leave.
Which is to say, the "no rules", anything goes atmosphere you espouse is just as likely if not moreseo to drive off newcomers as some artificial "rules" might.
All that being said, you certainly could have been approached in a more polite manner; but given the immediate hostility of your response, I suspect you would have responded just as impolitely in any event.
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In the last century when I started flying online vulching was shooting a plane that was still in contact with the ground. Over a decade later it is anything that resembles a vertical fight within 20 miles of a base. Times change......
Yea....the attitude over in Warbirds was different. I kinda think its generational. I've always approached the game from the standpoint that if I got killed its because I made a mistake. I don't blame it on HO, pick, gang, or some imaginary rules violation. Its my own damn fault and I try to learn from my mistakes.
As for handling this via PM........
The entire point is to bring this behavior into public focus.
If HTC wants to step in and codify this supposed set of AvA rules I'll abide by them.
But I suspect that is not the case.
Fudgums came back into the AvA this afternoon and promised I would be run out of the AvA. He even promised a PNG for me if I posted our last conversation in the AvA. Maybe I will get PNG'ed or "run out". If MMO flight simulation is now a Bruce Lee film where you must wait your turn to attack the hero then it is time for me to go anyway.
I fly to be part of a team against a team. I've gotten my bellyful of 1 v 1 as a trainer in Warbirds for 8 years. Teamwork and camaraderie are what makes online gaming a long term endeavor. Every online experience that does not involve interaction with others and teamwork becomes stale very quickly.
I know the constant denigration of teamwork in the AvA (and the Main) is wearing pretty darn thin for me.
My squad was pretty excited about the AvA when we first moved over from WB but the attitude in there was so anti-squadron operations that we stopped flying there fairly quickly. We went from potentially huge proponents of the AvA to a Main Arena squadron solely because of the attitude we encountered whenever we flew in there.
We assumed the AvA was the arena where one could find more of an historical re-creation. Frankly, I expected teamwork and squadron style operations to be encouraged, not actively discouraged.
In any case I'm going to continue to make the case against unwritten gameplay rules because I pay to play and I would not dare tell another paying customer how he must behave and I expect the same.
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If you pick in an any arena and have 200 tuned than you should expect and learn to deal with it being discussed.
If a friendly asks you to stay out of a 1v1 you should respect the request.
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Now that I have more than a passing minute . . .
I do have to ask, Dawger, if you had been asked to please stay out of the 1v1, whether you would have done so out of courtesy, or continued to carry your "it's my $15 bucks" attitude and stolen the guy's kill anyway? If you would have respected the request, great, that is a fine attitude to bring into the AvA (or anywhere else in AH). If not, then I have to say that IMO the "to hell with you, it's my $15 bucks" attitude is no better than those who expect you to fly by certain rules.
If Lonmower had said stay out he is mine I would have stayed out (to the extent possible...they were literally fighting over the runway I took off from). But he would have to say so. I make no such assumptions and if you see me fighting a bandit, come on and whack him one. I don't even care if you shoot the flaming wreckage in order to get the kill credit.
My attitude is anything less than a pilot kill is poor gunnery on my part and the next guy can certainly correct my error.
No I don't shoot flaming wreckage. It is tactically stupid and a waste of ammunition.
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Now that I have more than a passing minute . . .
I do have to ask, Dawger, if you had been asked to please stay out of the 1v1, whether you would have done so out of courtesy, or continued to carry your "it's my $15 bucks" attitude and stolen the guy's kill anyway? If you would have respected the request, great, that is a fine attitude to bring into the AvA (or anywhere else in AH). If not, then I have to say that IMO the "to hell with you, it's my $15 bucks" attitude is no better than those who expect you to fly by certain rules.
The numbers in the AvA are often too low for there to be a proper "fair fight." This is why many of the old timers cling to their "rules." Think about it -- if it is four on one and the four constantly dogpile, there is no reason for the one to stick around. He will leave, and the four will have nothing to do but look at each other. (After all, which of the four would dare switch when they know they will simply be on the receiving end of what he was just dishing out?) So, better and longer lasting fun for all if the four limit themselves to either 1v1 or 2v1s at most so their opponent at least feels like he has a chance, and therefore keeps upping.
Once the numbers are up a bit and there is a proper little furball going, then of course all "rules" are off. I don't think there are very many old timers who think that 4 planes running headlong into 4 planes must necessarily become 4 individual 1v1s. But three guys flying over a 1v1 in progress should have the courtesy not to dogpile IMO. That doesn't make it a DA by a different name, but does make it a place people can enjoy themselves. If they don't, they will leave.
Which is to say, the "no rules", anything goes atmosphere you espouse is just as likely if not moreseo to drive off newcomers as some artificial "rules" might.
All that being said, you certainly could have been approached in a more polite manner; but given the immediate hostility of your response, I suspect you would have responded just as impolitely in any event.
bingo :aok
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The truth:
Anyone attempting to coerce other players into their style of gameplay is wrong to do so. It is one thing to offer up the different styles, but it is an entirely different matter when one attempts to force other players to play 'their' game.
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First time I actually feel like quiting.
Got what you wanted Dawger?
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Dawger, you working for NBC?
because you just come in there. We tell you how things go. Not rules but how 1v1 are respected and stuff. then you come on here and tell the world.
The thing is...only 14-20 people get in the arena each night. There is no room for MA mentality. It is straight 1v1 fun. Id rather die in a 1v1 then die when someone jumps in. Most of the new guys that came in. Got it fast. 1v1 are the best way to learn. Not to jump in. If you have a problem then leave or we will fight some where else from you. But Im not going to change my style. or let someone else. Come on here and try to humilate me.
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Now that I have more than a passing minute . . .
I do have to ask, Dawger, if you had been asked to please stay out of the 1v1, whether you would have done so out of courtesy, or continued to carry your "it's my $15 bucks" attitude and stolen the guy's kill anyway? If you would have respected the request, great, that is a fine attitude to bring into the AvA (or anywhere else in AH). If not, then I have to say that IMO the "to hell with you, it's my $15 bucks" attitude is no better than those who expect you to fly by certain rules.
The numbers in the AvA are often too low for there to be a proper "fair fight." This is why many of the old timers cling to their "rules." Think about it -- if it is four on one and the four constantly dogpile, there is no reason for the one to stick around. He will leave, and the four will have nothing to do but look at each other. (After all, which of the four would dare switch when they know they will simply be on the receiving end of what he was just dishing out?) So, better and longer lasting fun for all if the four limit themselves to either 1v1 or 2v1s at most so their opponent at least feels like he has a chance, and therefore keeps upping.
Once the numbers are up a bit and there is a proper little furball going, then of course all "rules" are off. I don't think there are very many old timers who think that 4 planes running headlong into 4 planes must necessarily become 4 individual 1v1s. But three guys flying over a 1v1 in progress should have the courtesy not to dogpile IMO. That doesn't make it a DA by a different name, but does make it a place people can enjoy themselves. If they don't, they will leave.
Which is to say, the "no rules", anything goes atmosphere you espouse is just as likely if not moreseo to drive off newcomers as some artificial "rules" might.
All that being said, you certainly could have been approached in a more polite manner; but given the immediate hostility of your response, I suspect you would have responded just as impolitely in any event.
Wish I'd thought a way to say what you said lol
Perfect response +10 forum perkies :)
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I strolled into the AvA last month. What some are "Defending" (Ganging, etc ), they had no problem participating in. There was even an "Etiquette" thread up. All but one of the rules were routinely broken by those who started it, and "supported it".
It's a shame the "sway of guilt" only fits their suit of the day. It's called "hypocrisy."
WTFG Dawger.
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If you do keep acting like you're flying in the MA just to land kills then I guarantee you will be driven out.
Sounds like staffer material to me.
I believe we have found the root of the problem. :aok
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Sounds like staffer material to me.
I believe we have found the root of the problem. :aok
Where did I say I would be the one to run him off? :rolleyes:
And what "problem" are you speaking of?
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They claim things are different in the AvA due to the small numbers flying there; they fail to mention the small numbers flying there is in direct correlation to the large numbers of abusive players allowed to run wild in the arena. Hang in there Dawger, a few other squadrons are also waiting for another flush or two of the offending jg toilet. Maybe then, the arena will no longer be a glorified Dueling Arena and all paying customers can enjoy realistic plane sets in the game. As far as I'm concerned, one down and a couple more to go.....................
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Where did I say I would be the one to run him off? :rolleyes:
And what "problem" are you speaking of?
I believe most people would safely assume that when you make a statement that contains the words " I guarantee" it suggests that you will take an active part in making said prediction come true to the best of your abilities, or support such an endeavor.
Joe Namath 'guaranteed' a Super Bowl victory.
If the Jets had lost & a reporter asked him 'what about that guarantee, Joe?" and Namath replied with your "Where did I say I would be the one to win the Super Bowl?" he would be in the football follies but not the Hall of Fame :)
Unless you are guaranteeing something like 'the sun will go down' or 'jumping in the pool will get you wet', the implication is that you will, as Namath did, do your best to make your guarantee come to fruition.
And the 'problem' would probably be perceived by some to be two fold.
1- The lack of players in an otherwise beautiful arena in a gaming community that regularly host upwards of 400 players a night online, and the lack of steady opponents for AvA players.
2- The predominant attitudes reflected in your beliefs that one could/would get 'run off' and driven away from a community that members should be trying to grow, which brings us back to #1.
Self Fulfilling prophesy.
The great combination of player contributed skins, terrains & scenarios available in the AvA is negated by a community that unfortunately shoots itself in the foot when handling other aspects of the arena.
Thank Goodness for the Snapshots, SnS and other events that still let folks get that historic experience when they need it.
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Want to see their real attitude towards the AH Community? Read their forums; it speaks volumes of how they treat others in the Arena.
http://www.ahgreenhearts.org/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=8
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Now now, there are several of us in JG-54 who, as far as I know, have done nothing to deserve scorn. Lets not throw the word "they" around too much.
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Oh, and regarding interrupting '1 v 1's....
I see a difference between 2 pilots locked in a neutral fight, and one player totally defensive as the enemy is on him.
While the second example is also '1 v 1', I would expect that anyone flying in a 'historic' arena would come to the aid of the fellow countryman.
Part of the immersion of flying in a historic arena is the experience of helping a teammate in need and saving his bacon.
Personally no matter what arena, event, etc Im flying in, I encourage anyone to help me kill a bandit, especially if Im defensive. I get to live to fight another day, which should be the prevailing attitude in a historic arena. I never get upset because someone was trying to help me. Flying like your life means something should be par for the course. Thats part of what gives an arena a historic feel.
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Now now, there are several of us in JG-54 who, as far as I know, have done nothing to deserve scorn. Lets not throw the word "they" around too much.
Sorry Republic, but it's impossible to be in a squad and not know what rules are being broken by other members of that squad. I will however say, I hope you are not an offender and that you are still around to fly with after all the dust settles.
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I will however say, I hope you are not an offender and that you are still around to fly with after all the dust settles.
:uhoh I'm terrified. Whats going to happen lutrel? :noid
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Oh Lordy LOL
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They claim things are different in the AvA due to the small numbers flying there; they fail to mention the small numbers flying there is in direct correlation to the large numbers of abusive players allowed to run wild in the arena. Hang in there Dawger, a few other squadrons are also waiting for another flush or two of the offending jg toilet. Maybe then, the arena will no longer be a glorified Dueling Arena and all paying customers can enjoy realistic plane sets in the game. As far as I'm concerned, one down and a couple more to go.....................
:cry
Nice... didn't you pull your squad out of the AvA cause you couldn't hang but now you want to come into the forum to just stir the pot? You should be at the head of the line for the next flush! :rofl
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Hmmm, gona need somthing heavy duty for that. :D
Mabey a Danze one flush?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJeNXiuOs-8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJeNXiuOs-8)
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Lol flying with yall tonight proved how big twits yall are. This thread is a total waste of time.
btw
Scratch 1 on the witch hunt(me)
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Lutrel, you just had to go there did'nt you. Now its the JG squad causing all the problems. Ill have you know that I fight the fights that are handed to me. If I get it from all angles in a furball, thats the approach I use for the remainder. If the fights are clean 1v1 then that is how I approach all the fights.
Im tired of people labeling all of the community due to being involved in a squad. Its a cheap dig that helps nothing in the community. My point is be specific and dont generalize. It will give you more credibility in further discussions.
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I was in the AvA (last night I think - it's all a blur these days). I didn't get to fight any real 1v1. I think there were maybe 5 or so in the arena. I went flying around looking for someone to up. Found one, tangled for a couple of minutes, and then found another coming up to join his bud. Turned into a 1v2, which lasted another minute or so until I got flamed.
After that, it turned into a little furball, I think maybe 2v3 or 3v4 (I can't remember). It was fun, and I don't remember anyone saying "you ruined our private 1v1". I guess the guys in there that night were more concerned with having fun.
I can see where some people might feel it's their private little arena, as there are few passers-by that pop in to see what it's all about. But I can't see where this would entitle anyone to dictate "policy" to anyone else. People just take things too seriously sometimes.
I got into the habit very quickly (been in AH2 since March this year) to ask a countryman locked in battle if he needs help. [I wish everyone did, but many succumb to the blood-lust of killing everything they can just to see their name in lights; thus swooping in to steal a kill that I've been working on during a few minutes of good combat.] If he says no, I either loiter in case he changes his mind, or fly elsewhere looking for a fight. If he gives me the go-ahead, I'll do my best to kill whoever needs killing. If that person complains about getting picked in a 1v1, and rants like a lunatic, I just chuckle and ignore it - it's not a hard thing to do.
There is much chest-thumping that I've seen during my short time here, but that's to be expected with any game - real life or computer. I have found this to be quite humorous at times; but sometimes I just have to say to myself "WTF, it's a game...why do they get so wound up?"
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If people want 1v1 fightes, they go to DA. Otherwise it is a WW2 MMPOLG, which usually means a multiple enemy environment. No mercy, no whining. It is up to everyone themselves if they dont lok after their own butts. People have forgotten how and when to disengage from a fight if other enemies arrieve to the scene. They act like target fixated bulls and follow their single target until they die.. or get a kill and then die from their bad position, when instead they could disengage and get into a better position to fight against both (or more) enemies... to kill them all and even return home with the kills :)
Timeless Advice.............. :salute
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Want to see their real attitude towards the AH Community? Read their forums; it speaks volumes of how they treat others in the Arena.
http://www.ahgreenhearts.org/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=8
LMAO I just read through the threads on that BBS.
AVA lately
by jaeger on October 24th, 2008, 9:37 am
i have to say the AVA been quite fun the last few days. lets hope it stays that way now that we've re-conquered our beloved arena!!
Pure gold. :lol
Tyrant you're partly correct I am a Putz, but I wasn't trying to stir the pot. ;)
Oh yeah who is mini me? :rofl
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Dawger, you working for NBC?
because you just come in there. We tell you how things go. Not rules but how 1v1 are respected and stuff. then you come on here and tell the world.
The thing is...only 14-20 people get in the arena each night. There is no room for MA mentality. It is straight 1v1 fun. Id rather die in a 1v1 then die when someone jumps in. Most of the new guys that came in. Got it fast. 1v1 are the best way to learn. Not to jump in. If you have a problem then leave or we will fight some where else from you. But Im not going to change my style. or let someone else. Come on here and try to humilate me.
This is where your argument falls completely apart.
I didn't ask you to change your play style. You demanded that I change mine.
And going to fight your 1 v 1 on a secluded part of the map is just fine by me. I'm not going to go bother you.
It is interesting that you try to turn this 180 degrees from reality.
Last night I had a blast in the AvA with the exception of a little whining on 200. All the whining was from 2 people. You and Buster. Buster eventually chilled out when he realized we were just there to fly and have a good time.
As for 1 v 1 being a good way to learn you would be correct. But the ideal 1 v 1 learning experience is achieved by flying against someone who can explain your mistakes and help you correct them. And to eliminate all differences except pilot technique the 1 v 1 should be in identical aircraft with identical loadouts (unless exploring a particular matchup then each pilot should swap each hop to see the matchup from both sides)
I have flown literally thousands of 1 v 1 training flights. I find organizing a 1 v 1 over in the DA much more fun than worrying whether or not I will find one in an arena. The arenas are for the Massively Multiplayer part of the game. The DA is for organizing 1 v 1 training or flying challenge duels. But flying a 1 v 1 that you arrange in the AvA off in a corner is a good solution that I've seen utilized in many different arenas over the years. Nobody is going to bother you. Well, not me anyway.
Unless, of course, its me you want to go 1 v 1 against.
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I believe most people would safely assume that when you make a statement that contains the words " I guarantee" it suggests that you will take an active part in making said prediction come true to the best of your abilities, or support such an endeavor.
Joe Namath 'guaranteed' a Super Bowl victory.
If the Jets had lost & a reporter asked him 'what about that guarantee, Joe?" and Namath replied with your "Where did I say I would be the one to win the Super Bowl?" he would be in the football follies but not the Hall of Fame :)
Unless you are guaranteeing something like 'the sun will go down' or 'jumping in the pool will get you wet', the implication is that you will, as Namath did, do your best to make your guarantee come to fruition.
And the 'problem' would probably be perceived by some to be two fold.
1- The lack of players in an otherwise beautiful arena in a gaming community that regularly host upwards of 400 players a night online, and the lack of steady opponents for AvA players.
2- The predominant attitudes reflected in your beliefs that one could/would get 'run off' and driven away from a community that members should be trying to grow, which brings us back to #1.
Self Fulfilling prophesy.
The great combination of player contributed skins, terrains & scenarios available in the AvA is negated by a community that unfortunately shoots itself in the foot when handling other aspects of the arena.
Thank Goodness for the Snapshots, SnS and other events that still let folks get that historic experience when they need it.
Nailed it! :aok
:salute
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We have too many unwritten rules. Forget defining the rules, ask for courtesy and respect.
I've been in the AvA when one of these new guys get attacked by a bunch of old timers lacking courtesy and respect in "enforcing" these rules.
It goes something like this ...
"Why you flying at 10k you dweeb? You are a picker dweeb"
Of course the response is defensive. How could it not be?
How about ...
"With low numbers we like to keep it under 5k and avoid ganging to help get good fights and the night going"
The response would probably be
"Oh, OK"
If the new guy is rude, respond in kind, but try the couteous approach first and take some time to help them. We may just grow the arena ...
Venom
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I get bored with one vs one. Usually one plane/pilot combo is better, and you get the same result over and over. I don't mind a one vs many, especially if I am in the better T&B plane. A 1 vs 4 is a gang, a 1 vs 2 is a challenge. Because of these so called rules, 1 vs 2 is discouraged even though it adds a new challenging element to the game. You have to have SA and approach a fight differently if there are more cons. Why limit the engagments to a repetitive 1 vs 1 fight where you bleed all E? Variety is good. Why should we limit it to working on 1 vs 1 skills, what's wrong with 1 vs 2 skills? We have too many unwritten rules. Forget defining the rules, ask for courtesy and respect.
I've been in the AvA when one of these new guys get attacked by a bunch of old timers lacking courtesy and respect in "enforcing" these rules.
It goes something like this ...
"Why you flying at 10k you dweeb? You are a picker dweeb"
Of course the response is defensive. How could it not be?
How about ...
"With low numbers we like to keep it under 5k and avoid ganging to help get good fights and the night going"
The response would probably be
"Oh, OK"
If the new guy is rude, respond in kind, but try the couteous approach first and take some time to help them. We may just grow the arena ...
Venom
Good stuff Venom. I have to say Sunday night was fun. There was a pretty steady furball near one of the Allied bases and everybody seemed to fight hard in their planes and kept a humorous attitude about any other goings on. If that is the current norm, there's every reason to hope for future good things in the arena.
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Now now, there are several of us in JG-54 who, as far as I know, have done nothing to deserve scorn. Lets not throw the word "they" around too much.
Like my ol football coach told us when they wanted to get the point across about who you associate yourself with reflects on you, "Hang out with **** and you start to smell like it".
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Eh, Fudgums and stodd get like that sometimes, everyone does. It's kind of a new AHII tradition that the newer people start to follow from the "older" guys who seem to know "everything."
Sometimes, it is frustrating, but remind them that it's only cartoon planes, and they'll settle down quickly. Got a PM after killing an F4U 2 or 3 days ago, the guy seemed furious, settled it by just saying "It's alright man, we're only talking cartoon planes here"
Remind them, and they'll pipe down pretty quickly.
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I had a great time last night, as I usually do. Unfortunately the forum is always filled with constant bickering.
Nearly every night I play, 200 is very mild, actually milder than the MA's most nights. I probably log a little earlier than most (10pm central)...so maybe thats it. I genuinely admire some of my opponents. I've seen B4Buster do some amazing things in a P-38, Shifty gave me a workout in his F4U, Fudgums is always up for a fight, etc. I try to fly allied as much as possible, to get to know some of them. You can tell a lot about a person by the way they fly and conduct themselves on range vox.
Also, what no one has said here is how awesome the fights have been, at least the last couple nights. There were only a couple of Spitfire sorties last night. I have no problem fighting a spit in a 109, I may lose, but it doesn't hurt my feelings. But the allies were specifically avoiding the 'easy fight', and I thank them. The Axis, as far as I know, had few if any, 110 HOing rampages. I was only ganged a couple of times, which is to be expected. I flew over with wingmen, they fell from the sky, so I was next. The fights were low, with only the P-47's and 190's grabbing much alt at all. No radar porking, no vulching that I saw or experienced.
Despite the drama here, there are those of us quietly enjoying the AvA. Come and join us. :)
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well said republic. I too had fun last night.
Great fights last night guys, keep it up!! <S> to all that played!
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http://www.ahgreenhearts.org/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=8
Wow....
With that much hatred and generally bad attitudes its not hard to see the resemblance to the AvA.
That's just sad.
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actually its called freedom of speech. 1st amendment.
let he, who has committed no sin, cast the first stone!
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actually its called freedom of speech. 1st amendment.
Freedom of speech what the heck does that have to do with it, he's talking about attitudes, it reminds me of the seagull seen in Finding Nemo, the seagulls are sitting on the dock saying Mine Mine Mine over and over.
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Hopefully, we'll see all you all in there tonight being all civilized and nicey nicey to each other tonight. its been great fun.
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Freedom of speech what the heck does that have to do with it, he's talking about attitudes, it reminds me of the seagull seen in Finding Nemo, the seagulls are sitting on the dock saying Mine Mine Mine over and over.
He's talking about the JG54 forum. We have that one so we can have our first amendment. There we, and anyone who wants to join us, can say what we want without having to worry about getting hit with a PNG stick.
Its funny how the tread was started talking about "attitude" of a few people that were not JG54 but the tread comes down to JG54.
To you luttrel, we are here to stay. We don't go running off crying cheat when someone kills us. When you and your merry men get tired of porking dars else were you know where to find us. :rolleyes:
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He's talking about the JG54 forum. We have that one so we can have our first amendment. There we, and anyone who wants to join us, can say what we want without having to worry about getting hit with a PNG stick.
Its funny how the tread was started talking about "attitude" of a few people that were not JG54 but the tread comes down to JG54.
To you luttrel, we are here to stay. We don't go running off crying cheat when someone kills us. When you and your merry men get tired of porking dars else were you know where to find us. :rolleyes:
I know that but what he interjected was a description of the forum not a comment about the attitude displayed in the forum compared to the attitude displayed in the AVA
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The AVA is fun and exciting!! Give it a try!! and the forum is a place of constructive banter. come on down. We're here for ya!!
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Are yall going to continue the witch hunt or just cry on here about how bad AvA is?
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Larry,
You have every right to practice your free speech and that's not an issue. On the same token I have every right to compare the attitude of that forum. Some of the comments in there are childish and down right disgusting. Most of my bad experiences in AvA revolve around you and JG54. Personally I feel such actions are ridiculous regardless of how someone plays (or doesn't) a game. I love historical match ups and it pains me to see bad attitudes ruin a great place for me to fly.
Steel
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let he, who has committed no sin, cast the first stone!
At Jaeger's Face.......... :D
Sorry, couldn't contain myself - it was just too easy - siting right there in broad daylight. :rofl
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At Jaeger's Face.......... :D
Sorry, couldn't contain myself - it was just too easy - siting right there in broad daylight. :rofl
Easy killer!!! hehehe just more good natured fun. good one!!
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Are yall going to continue the witch hunt or just cry on here about how bad AvA is?
That's all they do fungems. They spend hours on the forum crying about how bad it is, but if you take the time to look at the stats you'll see that alot of them haven't been in the arena for months.
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exactly right
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Like I said before. It's unfortunate bad the only threads that make it past two pages are drama filled mud slinging ones. It's too bad there's not any constructive topics :)
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Larry,
You have every right to practice your free speech and that's not an issue. On the same token I have every right to compare the attitude of that forum. Some of the comments in there are childish and down right disgusting. Most of my bad experiences in AvA revolve around you and JG54. Personally I feel such actions are ridiculous regardless of how someone plays (or doesn't) a game. I love historical match ups and it pains me to see bad attitudes ruin a great place for me to fly.
Steel
You have to understand JG54 is coming full circle. In some ways you can <gasp> lay some of the blame on me for the way they express themselves (not just what they say, or how they say it, but also why they say it.)
You see, I've been in the AvA since its Tour 1 - long before JG54 was around. At it's inception the players were heavily weighted towards ex-WBers who flew as squads/small elements. Some like me came from AW3 as it was tanking with AW Millenium, and brought in a slightly different "culture" - the one of individuality. I'd often get into it with those AvA squads (notice, not "skwadz") going up against them and having them turn into 3-4 v 1. AvA numbers have always been relatively small, and just as you see today with this "code" everyone keeps hypocritically referring to, it was hoping the arena would be a little more civilized than the MAs.
Fast forward to when JG54 came in... they'd be doing all kinds of newbie stuff like porking dar, milking bases, ganging and horde-ing even more so than the squads that preceded them. JG54 was one of the first "skwadz" in the AvA. You can imagine how'd I'd get all up in their faces about the way they were playing the AvA - and of course you'd see the usual, "we can play however we want to." All this back and fourth led to some epic battles both aerial and verbal between them and myself (and others on both sides of the fence.) A lot og JG54 honed their skills on me - and there are some good sticks to be sure. As they improved and wee among the more consistent AvA players, they somehow felt the arena "belonged" to them. I've always had a problem with this attitude coming from any skwad in any arena (points at some DA skwadz who've been getting recent lessons in smackdowns :aok ) My overall impact is minimized by being an individual instead of a squad.
Important aside: People wonder why I'm so "mouthy." Some get it, some don't. For those of you don't, it's very simple. I either motivate you to get better (so you can shut me up) or faciliate taking the "lameness" to the extreme. In me vs Skawdz dynamics, this means even more ganging and picking than usual (so they think, "hah, we'll do the things he whines about even more - that'll show him!" But.... eventually the circle either comes full or they burn out, simply being stuck on suck for way too long. I have no problem with wing and flight tactics, but too often people make claims of "teamwork" when it's anything but. It's rare to see proper wing/flight tactics displayed in any arena - and only slightly moreso in the special events.
Fast forward to approx '05/06 (before i took my break) and you saw JG54 evolving with their gameplay (less milking, porking - but no so much less ganging. I guess from their entry until my exit they'd developed a defensive attitude - as you can still see today, but which in itself isn't so much different than any skwad's "circling the wagons" when confronted with some adversity or whatever.
Fast foward to fall '08 when I returned. Ahhh, Jg54 is still around and I'm seeing them having evolved even further into the "the fights the thing" mindset (and ironically whining about the very same things they used to get upset about me whining about. :aok ) They're not quite there, yet, obviously and it's always made more difficult by the influx of new squad members who need to be "helped" along.
What I'm saying here is, while JG54 has their hearts in the more or less right place, they haven't quite matured enough to be a more positive force in the AvA for a variety of reasons from, personalities to pretensions. This results in a lot of conflict with the casual AvAers, as always. Nothing new here except the names involved.
I just wonder if the irony escapes JG54. Cod knows it was fairly easy enough to wind them up and revert them back into a luftberry when I came back a while ago. :aok
Now to the main focus. No one can tell another how to fly (well, you can, but yanno?) It's up to each and everyone of us as individuals to decide how we fly/fight. Ideally we'd all be on the same page, altho maybe in different paragraphs. Smaller arena numbers intensify *everything.* Meh, I am who I am and it's not who you think I am. :aok
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You speak as if JG-54 is a solid immovable object. We have few, if any, of the same members you probably encountered.
We aren't all powerful or something to be afraid of. We are just a group of guys, some more vocal than others, who enjoy flying cartoon planes together. We aren't all perfect sticks, we aren't all smack magnets. Heck..some of us are down right likable people.
I'll never understand the vehemence the name "JG-54" inspires in others...
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You speak as if JG-54 is a solid immovable object. We have few, if any, of the same members you probably encountered.
We aren't all powerful or something to be afraid of. We are just a group of guys, some more vocal than others, who enjoy flying cartoon planes together. We aren't all perfect sticks, we aren't all smack magnets. Heck..some of us are down right likable people.
I'll never understand the vehemence the name "JG-54" inspires in others...
The core members are still there. You're new and don't posess the sense of history between JG54 and the AvA. I don't dislike anyone in any arena. I will, however, call 'em like I see them in terms of gameplay, but then that's always subjective. There have (and still, apparently) been times when certain skwadz felt they "owned" an arena (it's not unique to AH, either.) I always dispute and prosecute such claims. :aok
I can't speak insomuch for the period between my departure and return (only via drivebys of the forums), but it appears a lot of this animosity is spillover from the MW arenas, with pretty much the same cast of characters.
So instead of getting defensive, and trust me, you are, why not take an objective look at the WHOLE picture and put it in proper context?
Or in a Shane-ism, "I'm not perfect, but I'm closer to it than you are." :aok
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Shane can come in and pwn me :lol
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So whats the morale of the story, what is A v A, not your idea of it but HT's, whats it supposed to be.
Plane sets right, purely historical plane sets against each other.
Then someone else put in the rest, no picking no grinnin must wear white socks on every other tuesday, blue pants on wednesdays.
Many nights Ive wanted to wander in and check it out to escape the MA but it just doesnt seem worth it.
PS I'll follow HT's rules but if another player tries to impart his interpretation or his own made up rules forget it.
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Hungry, Go fly in the AvA. If one of the rules committee starts quoting you chapter and verse from the "unwritten" rules just post a screen shot here. That seems to do the trick.
The AvA is fun most of the time.
Ignore the admonishment to handle such things via PM or by contacting a CM unless they are being abusive or threatening. In that case you would just forward the screenshot to HTC.
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Dawger posting screen shots in this forum just to start crap will get you banned from this forum trust me. In most of your posts you say "I used to fly WB for so and so years and I was a trainer there blah blah blah" then act like it. YOu got your panties in a bunch because someone told you off after you picked a fight. For the past five or so years that has been the AvAs strong point. A place where you didnt have to worry about that other enemy flying over head dropping in. Were you could have a 1v1 with out the "go to the DA" retards. No one saying ANYTHING about any rules until you brought it up. Which bring up the question "What was your name before you changed it?" Im betting just another shade trying to stir the pot.
From the fights we just had in the AvA I can see why you need to jump a 1v1 for a kill and why you want others to help you in a 1v1. :rolleyes:
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lol this thread is so silly. I wonder how many times it has to be reported before it finally gets locked?
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Mine! mine! All Mine! :rolleyes:
LOL, Staff material....................
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Dawger posting screen shots in this forum just to start crap will get you banned from this forum trust me.
No one saying ANYTHING about any rules until you brought it up. Which bring up the question "What was your name before you changed it?" Im betting just another shade trying to stir the pot.
Why is that other than the unwritten what rules did he break, yours?
Your kidding right this issue has been on these boards for as long as I can remember. Hehe the ultimate I'm losing the argument uh oh call him a shade quick that will do it.
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more whines on the BBS
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LOL, Staff material....................
:cry
Why is that other than the unwritten what rules did he break, yours?
Your kidding right this issue has been on these boards for as long as I can remember. Hehe the ultimate I'm losing the argument uh oh call him a shade quick that will do it.
:cry
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Where did you and your boys go to after we started cheating? Another crybaby that couldnt handle getting beat up so they run off. Get a life and get over it.
Hungry instead of acting like a tool read a few of skuzzys posts in this forum. That is if you can find the time from all your flying in the AvA. :rolleyes:
Ya know as I said one of the other currently ongoing A v A threads I would love to fly against equal opposing plane sets the basic idea seems great. However if your an example of the fine quality player there calling me a tool :rolls eyes, HT can maintain his mostly empty areana just for you and your ilk.
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I have found in the past the louder the whiner the bigger the unskilled tool
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:uhoh
Ya know as I said one of the other currently ongoing A v A threads I would love to fly against equal opposing plane sets the basic idea seems great. However if your an example of the fine quality player there calling me a tool :rolls eyes, HT can maintain his mostly empty areana just for you and your ilk.
Ohhhhh
Fight! Fight! :rofl
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Ya know as I said one of the other currently ongoing A v A threads I would love to fly against equal opposing plane sets the basic idea seems great. However if your an example of the fine quality player there calling me a tool :rolls eyes, HT can maintain his mostly empty areana just for you and your ilk.
If you actually flew the arena you would know that there are alot of people that populate the arena. Its a great place to find a good fight, but you wouldn't know that since you're to busy crying on the forum about something you have ZERO clue about. Until then you are just a tool looking for attention.
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I have found in the past the louder the whiner the bigger the unskilled tool
I try to keep it on topic but the name calling throws my vocabulary off a bit. Would you kindly point out who your refering to?
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...Until then you are just a tool looking for attention.
Did you mean fool?
:huh
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Dawger posting screen shots in this forum just to start crap will get you banned from this forum trust me. In most of your posts you say "I used to fly WB for so and so years and I was a trainer there blah blah blah" then act like it. YOu got your panties in a bunch because someone told you off after you picked a fight. For the past five or so years that has been the AvAs strong point. A place where you didnt have to worry about that other enemy flying over head dropping in. Were you could have a 1v1 with out the "go to the DA" retards. No one saying ANYTHING about any rules until you brought it up. Which bring up the question "What was your name before you changed it?" Im betting just another shade trying to stir the pot.
From the fights we just had in the AvA I can see why you need to jump a 1v1 for a kill and why you want others to help you in a 1v1. :rolleyes:
We had one fight in the AvA today. You won. You fly well and I made a huge mistake. That is always going to equal me dead. The rest of the time I just watched you do oblique nose low hard breaks whenever I got within 1.2D. No reason for me to make the same mistake twice now is there?
I've been promised to be banned from this forum twice now, once by Larry and once by Fudgums. My major crime is calling attention to those trying to enforce imaginary rules. Like I said before if that gets me banned then I'm in the wrong place anyway.
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If you actually flew the arena you would know that there are alot of people that populate the arena. Its a great place to find a good fight, but you wouldn't know that since you're to busy crying on the forum about something you have ZERO clue about. Until then you are just a tool looking for attention.
The vocabulary letting you down or are you just a wittle angwy. Now think a bit before the next post, I look at the A v A arena before I log on allmost every time, during my hours approx 6 to 9 pm central I don't think that Ive ever seen more than 20 to 40 in there if that many. How do ever expect to increase those numbers? or dont you want to?
You have someone here who would like to try it but it seems that I'd have to fist fight my way in.
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I'm almost certain that Larry doesn't want higher numbers on a regular basis. His posts here actively discourage new participation to the point of calling for restrictions on who can post in this forum.
BTW Larry, If you want to get rid of me you don't have to ban me. Just take the P38 out of the planeset and you won't see me.
No P38, No Dawger. Its pretty simple, really.
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Making treads that just try top stir the pot will get you banned. Take it from someone who's had it happen to him before.
As for our "fights" they started with you 5K+ above me. I stayed low waiting for you to make your move and watched as you made a few weak passes then zoomed right back up. The only time you did commit to the fight you over shot within 5 seconds and then proceeded to do a weak stick stir while running away. Second "fight" was about the same thing except you didn't commit and I had to land since i was out of fuel after watching you fly circles above me for almost fifteen minutes.
I'm almost certain that Larry doesn't want higher numbers on a regular basis. His posts here actively discourage new participation to the point of calling for restrictions on who can post in this forum.
BTW Larry, If you want to get rid of me you don't have to ban me. Just take the P38 out of the planeset and you won't see me.
No P38, No Dawger. Its pretty simple, really.
I wont have to ban you and really don't want to get rid of you. The more baby seals for me the club the better. For you being certain that I don't want more numbers shows you have no clue. Go check the missions that I put together. I want to turn the AvA into a place where squads and individuals can go to find good fights without having to worry about base capture or porkers.
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LARRY!
Calm down dude.... your typos are atrocious. :rofl
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LARRY!
Calm down dude.... your typos are atrocious. :rofl
Its my 16.03 I can make as many typos as I want. :P
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Making treads that just try top stir the pot will get you banned. Take it from someone who's had it happen to him before.
As for our "fights" they started with you 5K+ above me. I stayed low waiting for you to make your move and watched as you made a few weak passes then zoomed right back up. The only time you did commit to the fight you over shot within 5 seconds and then proceeded to do a weak stick stir while running away. Second "fight" was about the same thing except you didn't commit and I had to land since i was out of fuel after watching you fly circles above me for almost fifteen minutes.
Like I said we had one fight and I lost. I lost because I committed to a turn fight in a heavy P38J with a Ki61 at 5 feet off the water. Thats just dumb and I freely admit it.
The rest of the time you broke way too early for me to even think about committing to a guns pass so I just went the other way and eventually you would show up again underneath me, 5 feet off the deck. I realize you want a P38 to commit to an angles fight at low altitude when you are in a 109. Thats the situation I would want as well.
You wanted the fight under conditions you dictated and I decided not to commit under those conditions. Silly me.
Feel free to disparage my skill/decision making/timidity/weakness or whatever creative pejorative terms you care to use. I have a thick skin. Makes me no nevermind. Makes you what I suspect most everyone else already knows you are.
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That's okay Dawger. I got bounced very sweetly by Gavagai on my last flight last night. He had some good smash and I was on the deck RTB with 2 minutes gas. He made a neat recovery from the initial overshoot and nailed me fair and square.
Its my 16.03...
Damn! I forgot about the Canadian inflation. :rofl
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I don't mind getting my butt kicked. I used to mind but I also used to be a lot better than I am now. I'm afraid I don't put nearly the effort I used to into staying sharp and I am past the cat like reflexes of youth.
I used to build a new system annually specifically for flying. Now, I just dug my 4 year old machine out of the closet and pieced together a barely serviceable rig after taking a 4 month break from computer silliness.
I'm having fun flying online again but I get the feeling it might be short lived.