Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sancho on November 11, 2001, 12:51:00 PM
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I've driven more tanks, halftracks, and M8s this tour than in a long time. Every time I go shooting up enemy airfields or towns, I find myself wondering why it takes 20 hits from an M8 main gun to destroy a house when it only takes a few seconds of direct hits from a P-47s 50 cals. Shouldn't the M8 gun do far more damage? Same thing for the panzer or LVT big guns.
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Hello....
Yes, agree....
The gv perspective ´still has lot of capicity...if some things like this can be adressed....
Yes, I know its primary a flight Simulator, but if more poeple use tanks and stuff it will add great atmosphere to AH....
I would enjoy take a Sturmvoik and attack a group of 10 tanks with some AA-Units as support :D
Jv44 (Andreas)
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Agree totally, Its funny that the most potent vehicle as a ground weapon is the M16.
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I agree too. Ground vehicles, particularily the high explosive shells need to do alot more damage to buildings.
Still, you need to keep the flying part of the game viable too.
I would have vehicle to vehicle base fights be pro vehicle. The area between them would be where the ground and buildings are specifically designed to be more vehicle friendly than aircraft friendly. Bases with highly dug in guns that are difficult to bomb.
A few additional units like self propelled artillery to the mix and we got ourselves a ground war, though in a limited way. If bombers can fly in formations of 4 in the future, artillery should be similar and have mulitple vehicles under the control of a single man. Even more than 4 vehicles. Maybe a full company of 12 vehicles, plus support/ammo vehicles
Artillery is the "bomber" of the army, not the tank. The tank is the "fighter".
Hans.
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I have requested this before, and I still support it.
I don't think that any modifications need to be done to the Ostwind or M16, but the PnZ IV H and M8 should do a lot more damage with their HE rounds, especially the PnZ IV H and all future tanks.
It might not track in a "1000lb bomb has x amount of explosive while a 75mm HE shell only has y amount" sense, but for gameplay it needs to be done.
A PnZ IV H should be able to take a mix of AP and HE rounds and still have the HE rounds be usefull. As it is, it takes way to long for a PnZ to kill a hanger or other hard structure. And the whole time it is sitting there firing it is pinpointing its location to every aircraft within 10 miles, perhaps tracer smoke shouldn't be visible at such long ranges.
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I agree to, need to boost up the Pz and the M8, not the Osty and the M16, leave them as it.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:
I agree to, need to boost up the Pz and the M8, not the Osty and the M16, leave them as it.
i agree!!!
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AGREED! It's really amazing just how little the "big guys" can do. Last week I went on a little excursion with another bishie to an enemy depot. Our goal was to destroy any resupply truck convoys coming out. The first convoy he totally destroyed with an ostwind. I had brought an LVTA4 because I figured I could do some serious damage with a 75mm howitzer with 100 HE rounds. I parked right on the road outside the depot and waited. The trucks started coming out right at me. I put a round right into the lead truck, saw the flash and nothing else--it just kept on coming. I freaked and jumped into one of the machine guns and peppered it......as it ran over my god knows how many ton LVT and killed me. When a 75mm HE round cannot kill a TRUCK, something is definitely wrong. :mad:
OH! I almost forgot.....why the hell can we not get outside gv views any longer? I can understand the fighters but not the gv's. These guys were able to stick their heads out and look around for danger---not drive the dam tank around in circles looking for any targets through a peephole.
(http://www.applink.net/thunder/sig/DHBG.jpg)
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: Kodiak2 ]
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Kodiak2,
People were using the exterior views to eliminate the role that hull down positions served. They would get 100-500ft above the ground and see what was ahead of the tank in ways that tankers can only have wet dreams about.
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Most of the AH vehicle drivers (especially the Ostwind and Panzer)could not have gotten much more than a basic forward area view at best from thier drivers hatch position. However all the AH GV's do have an upper hull gunner of one sort or another and that is where you can go to get a 360deg view check around you. The external view was just too much. It was literally a cheat. Just hit F3, F8 and then F5 and you got view of the world around you as if you were anywhere from 500 to 5,000 feet in the air (just zoom in/out to increase altitiude and over all world view). It was totally bogus.
Westy
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
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I agree totally with both Sancho and Kodiak2.
(http://www.bombergroup.com/bg/DHBGcard.jpg)
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On GV's I can only say:
HE shells should be the equivalent of a 1000pnd bomb against ANY structure.
AP shells have to be looked into. A Pznr can pop 15 rnds into a flaktank at point blank and not kill it.
Or perhaps its the armour? Dunno.
M8 has to be seriously revisited. I can kill it with 50 cals.
Bushes and sheep should lower the speed of a vehicle as it passes over them (say, lose 10mph?... ya I know, just think they are BIG sheep). Trees should bring the gv to a complete stop. No more of this ground clutter-touch-o'death syndrome.
GV's should DIE from ANY 500pnd+ bomb that falls within 5 meters of it. RL it would flip that gv or vaporize it. In AH you can drop a whole stick of 1k bombs from a b7 and watch them blow a few ft from the pzr and the dang gv keeps moving and shooting, undamaged.
Flaktanks killing Pzr's from long range? what?
Trees and other terrain should HIDE the gv from airplanes. Maybe have HT make the GV not be able to be seen from above unless the gv is in open terrain or inside its icon range? (aka, beach, sheep field, anywhere where there are no trees).?
SMOKE: Allow ALL vehicles to have smoke. The smoke should be 30 ft high and 10 ft wide imo, this would help vehicles use smoke to screen them from air attacks as well as other vehicles.
Add Mannable AT-GUNS around the fields and towns. A nice Pak36 or SAMLE gun would be quite fun to smack around
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Actually not true Westy. An uncle of mine saw combat in Shermans, and he regularly dismounted from his Sherman to take a look at the ground ahead on foot. Even with mortars and Jerry snipers around, that was far safer than advancing into an 88mm.
So perhaps the F3 view was not that unrealistic?
Fidd
Originally posted by O'Westy:
Most of the AH vehicle drivers (especially the Ostwind and Panzer)could not have gotten much more than a basic forward area view at best from thier drivers hatch position. However all the AH GV's do have an upper hull gunner of one sort or another and that is where you can go to get a 360deg view check around you. The external view was just too much. It was literally a cheat. Just hit F3, F8 and then F5 and you got view of the world around you as if you were anywhere from 500 to 5,000 feet in the air (just zoom in/out to increase altitiude and over all world view). It was totally bogus.
Westy
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
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RGR, AP 75mm and .50 cal are unbalenced totally.
It takes several 75 mm hits to kill ostwind, but it takes seconds to destroy it by .05 guns in M3. Once i vulched ostwinds spawning in VH. I was in M3. Got 3 kills, would have more but some Typhoon killed my M3...
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Originally posted by O'Westy:
Most of the AH vehicle drivers (especially the Ostwind and Panzer)could not have gotten much more than a basic forward area view at best from thier drivers hatch position. However all the AH GV's do have an upper hull gunner of one sort or another and that is where you can go to get a 360deg view check around you. The external view was just too much. It was literally a cheat. Just hit F3, F8 and then F5 and you got view of the world around you as if you were anywhere from 500 to 5,000 feet in the air (just zoom in/out to increase altitiude and over all world view). It was totally bogus.
Westy
[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
Well I see your point and it's valid---Can't HT just disable that particular view? I'm no programmer but it certainly seems feasable. We need an outside view just as bombers have---to watch for that enemy sneaking up on you. I'm sure the rationale for having the views in bombers is that you had other people in the gunner positions watching for you----well, it took more than one person to drive and gun the gv's too! I'm getting more than a little sick of having to jump from the driver's seat to the gun position just to see out there---even just driving along with no enemy near I have to jump in a gunner position just to watch out for the killer shrubs. Now on to one of the other guy's comments.....
"HE shells should be the equivalent of a 1000pnd bomb against ANY structure."
Well that sounds real nice but.... As far as I can tell we have 3 different kinds of HE round sizes in AH 37mm, 75mm and the 8 inch shells from the cruisers. Should they be equal in damage? Certainly not. I think your wish SHOULD apply to the cruiser guns but not the others. I do think it's ridiculous that it takes 3 or 4 hits with 3 8 inch shells per shot to take out a hangar. When used against buildings I think it would be more appropriate for the others to be equal to 50 or 100 pounds. That way it would take (10 to 25?) shots depending on the caliber being used. :)
(http://www.applink.net/thunder/sig/DHBG.jpg)
[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: Kodiak2 ]
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FOOLS!
Dont you guys know the .50cal is THE greatest weapon ever made. Its much better for anti tank and demolition work than some stupid 75mm high velocity long barreled cannon spewing out pitiful HE and AP shot! Stop the blasphemy, worship the .50cal death rays especially on GVs and Buffs. BTW the 37mm cannon is also a much better weapon than the 75mm cannon.... :rolleyes: Sorry to say this guys and gals at HTC but you arent very consistent or perhaps even logical in the GV model. Big gun should equal big damage and Softskins and lightly armored MG firing open topped vehicles should fear real tanks, not the other way around.
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LOO, Grun!
On that same note, I'm just frustrated all to hell that the Hurricaine's 40mm can't so much as dent an M16 and M3's tear apart my IL-2 like a hot knife thru butter.
Again, as part of an earlier thread...let the craters do damage to GVs.
And hangars needn't be bullet proof to things like a tank. The WW2 design hangars aren't that rugged....we've had Cessna's parked in some for years and it wouldn't take much of a blast to knock it over like TinkerToys. :D
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Totally agree. If you give 1000 lbers the pinpoint 30k accuracy for the sake of gameplay, I can't see why you need 20+ 75 mm. rounds to kill a Hangar, or 3 to kill a Fuel depot.
Totally agree on open tops, too. No way an M16 or a Flakpanzer would risk an open combat against a Panzer. Basically, If you are in an opentop and find a tank, your only option is run.
Cheers,
Pepe
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I totally agree. I'm sure that if UBB had polling features (hint: get VBulletin) we'd find that basically everyone supporting increasing GV damage. It's rediclous, IRL vehicles didn't have to sit there and blast away at an enemy building to capture it. It would all be made much easier if we had "damage levels" for buildings (e.g. slightly damaged, moderately damaged, heavily damaged, destroyed) each having varying effects on that building's supply or resource output, but since we don't I think it should take 10 rounds max to kill a hanger, 1-2 for most other buildings.
On the outside view issue, I think that it should be re-enabled. There is really no reason NOT to have it - there are no "hull down" positions in AH and it is impossible to hide, since all the AH terrain is essentially open field. OTOH, there are many reasons for enabling it. My main problem is that determining range from the standard GV view is basically impossible - the size of objects seems to change very little until you get really close to them. This is especially annoying when acks open up on you - they could be 100 ft away or 500 ft away and you couldn't tell the difference.
Oh, and while collidable ground clutter is a nice idea, trees are NOT the same as having 10" thick steel bars jutting up 30ft off the ground that blow up anything they touch. Either fix em, or just turn them back to eye candy status.