Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Anaxogoras on January 04, 2009, 03:22:55 PM
-
Please answer along the following criteria. You have to assign all of the following categories a positive number. All together they must add up to 14. Assign the numbers in terms of your judgment of how important the category is to the ability of a fighter in the late-war main arena.
They are:
Speed at sea level
Speed at 10k ft
Speed above 10k ft
Climb at sea level
Climb at 10k ft
Climb at 15k ft
Turn radius
Turn radius w flaps
Lethality
primary weapon firing time (b key)
secondary weapon firing time (f key)
primary weapon ballistics
secondary weapon ballistics
200-300mph acceleration
For example, I've been toying with these numbers and just tried:
1.5 Speed at sea level
1.0 Speed at 10k ft
.25 Speed above 10k ft
1.5 Climb at sea level
1.0 Climb at 10k ft
.25 Climb at 15k ft
1.5 Turn radius
1.5 Turn radius w flaps
2.0 Lethality
1.0 primary weapon firing time (b key)
.25 secondary weapon firing time (f key)
1.0 primary weapon ballistics
.25 secondary weapon ballistics
1.0 200-300mph acceleration
Some important things are left out because they are hard to measure, e.g. forward view visibility, durability, and range come to mind. Please forgive these flaws (for now) and give your opinion in the above format. Thank you.
-
you make my head hurt.
:huh
-
I disagree with how you categorize lethality, firing time and ballistics on primary and secondary weapons.
First, I think you're overrating lethality. Yeah, the taters on the 109K pack a nasty punch, but just HITTING with them takes a lot of practice and luck. In a fighter vs. fighter engagement I'd say the 30mm is MAINLY a factor of fear--to the detriment of the K-4 because damned if any fighter who sees him coming is going to give him a clean shot.
For example: the A6M's 20mm cannon have the advantage in hitting power over the .50cal of the F4F, but the Ma Deuce's advantage in ballistics and muzzle velocity make them the FAR more effective weapons package (ok, I'll give you that this is an EW comparison, but the same can be said comparing German and American iron. The cannon on the German fighters may have the raw hitting power advantage, but the US .50cal are much easier to hit with).
For this reason, lethality and ballistics properties should both be weighted together in this case, perhaps one being a multiplier to the other, or averaging them together? Something like:
Gun Package = (Lethality + Ballistics)/2
As for Primary vs. Secondary:
You're SPECIFICALLY considering this as the actual primary and secondary triggers, correct? NOT assuming mixed weapon packages: IE, all cannon on primary and all machine guns as secondary? If this is the case remember the P-40E, P-51s, P-47s, F4F/FM-2, F4Us and F6Fs all have the same type of guns in both primary and secondary banks. In this case, I think the ballistics and firing time of the secondary bank is QUITE significant, considering that all the guns in the planes I mentioned have the same ballistics properties, (Browning .50cal for all except the F4U-1C) as opposed to aircraft with mixed armaments that can have a modest (.50cal and Hispano) to radical (German 13mm + 30mm) variance in the ballistics and muzzle velocity. Not only that, but some of these aircraft have an even distribution of rounds between both gun banks.
For example, if you look at the ammo distribution on the P-51B one pair of guns has 250rds/gun, the other has 380. The FM-2 has 430rds in all four guns. Both carry the Browning .50cal so ballistics don't come into the equation, but the FM-2 has a MAJOR advantage in firing time. Additionally, because the FM-2 distributes ammunition between all four guns equally she has a major advantage in lethality: The P-51B loses half its firepower after firing roughly 2/3 her total firing time. The FM-2's lethality remains consistent right up until the guns go dry.
To accurately rate all weapons on an aircraft we'd be looking at an even more complex equation. Maybe something like:
Gun Package = ( (Primary Lethality + Primary Ballistics + Primary Firing Time) / 3) + (Secondary Lethality + Primary Ballistics + Secondary Firing Time / 3 ) ) / 2
-
Speed at sea level
Speed at 10k ft
Speed above 10k ft
Climb at sea level
Climb at 10k ft
Climb at 15k ft
5 Turn radius
9 Turn radius w flaps
Lethality
primary weapon firing time (b key)
secondary weapon firing time (f key)
primary weapon ballistics
secondary weapon ballistics
200-300mph acceleration
-
No offence, but I don't know why anyone would put this amount of effort in a hypothetical and acedemic discussion. That is all it is unless HTC indicates that they have any interest in modifying their ENY values.
-
No offence, but I don't know why anyone would put this amount of effort in a hypothetical and acedemic discussion. That is all it is unless HTC indicates that they have any interest in modifying their ENY values.
Most of the work has already been done for me! :D
:noid
-
Speed at sea level
Speed at 10k ft
Speed above 10k ft
Climb at sea level
Climb at 10k ft
Climb at 15k ft
5 Turn radius
9 Turn radius w flaps
Lethality
primary weapon firing time (b key)
secondary weapon firing time (f key)
primary weapon ballistics
secondary weapon ballistics
200-300mph acceleration
You must really like the D3A1!
-
They are:
Speed at sea level YAK -LA
Speed at 10k ft
Speed above 10k ft 109-K4 SPEED
Climb at sea level 109'S CLIMB
Climb at 10k ft
Climb at 15k ft
Turn radius FM2
Turn radius w flaps
Lethality HISPANO
200-300mph acceleration
THATS WORTH A PERK
-
0.75 Speed at sea level
1.0 Speed at 10k ft
0.75 Speed above 10k ft
1.0 Climb at sea level
1.0 Climb at 10k ft
0.25 Climb at 15k ft
1.0 Turn radius
1.0 Turn radius w flaps
2.0 Lethality
1.50 primary weapon firing time (b key)
1.25 secondary weapon firing time (f key)
1.25 primary weapon ballistics
0.75 secondary weapon ballistics
0.5 200-300mph acceleration
190a8 quad 20s.....?
-
Please answer along the following criteria. You have to assign all of the following categories a positive number. All together they must add up to 14. Assign the numbers in terms of your judgment of how important the category is to the ability of a fighter in the late-war main arena.
They are:
Speed at sea level
Speed at 10k ft
Speed above 10k ft
Climb at sea level
Climb at 10k ft
Climb at 15k ft
Turn radius
Turn radius w flaps
Lethality
primary weapon firing time (b key)
secondary weapon firing time (f key)
primary weapon ballistics
secondary weapon ballistics
200-300mph acceleration
For example, I've been toying with these numbers and just tried:
1.5 Speed at sea level
1.0 Speed at 10k ft
.25 Speed above 10k ft
1.5 Climb at sea level
1.0 Climb at 10k ft
.25 Climb at 15k ft
1.5 Turn radius
1.5 Turn radius w flaps
2.0 Lethality
1.0 primary weapon firing time (b key)
.25 secondary weapon firing time (f key)
1.0 primary weapon ballistics
.25 secondary weapon ballistics
1.0 200-300mph acceleration
Some important things are left out because they are hard to measure, e.g. forward view visibility, durability, and range come to mind. Please forgive these flaws (for now) and give your opinion in the above format. Thank you.
E = MC2
-
I just want to click on my little plane and fly, not crunch numbers. :rolleyes:
-
I just want to click on my little plane and fly, not crunch numbers. :rolleyes:
Adding to 14 is too much for ya? :P
-
I disagree with how you categorize lethality, firing time and ballistics on primary and secondary weapons.
First, I think you're overrating lethality. Yeah, the taters on the 109K pack a nasty punch, but just HITTING with them takes a lot of practice and luck. In a fighter vs. fighter engagement I'd say the 30mm is MAINLY a factor of fear--to the detriment of the K-4 because damned if any fighter who sees him coming is going to give him a clean shot.
For example: the A6M's 20mm cannon have the advantage in hitting power over the .50cal of the F4F, but the Ma Deuce's advantage in ballistics and muzzle velocity make them the FAR more effective weapons package (ok, I'll give you that this is an EW comparison, but the same can be said comparing German and American iron. The cannon on the German fighters may have the raw hitting power advantage, but the US .50cal are much easier to hit with).
For this reason, lethality and ballistics properties should both be weighted together in this case, perhaps one being a multiplier to the other, or averaging them together? Something like:
Gun Package = (Lethality + Ballistics)/2
As for Primary vs. Secondary:
You're SPECIFICALLY considering this as the actual primary and secondary triggers, correct? NOT assuming mixed weapon packages: IE, all cannon on primary and all machine guns as secondary? If this is the case remember the P-40E, P-51s, P-47s, F4F/FM-2, F4Us and F6Fs all have the same type of guns in both primary and secondary banks. In this case, I think the ballistics and firing time of the secondary bank is QUITE significant, considering that all the guns in the planes I mentioned have the same ballistics properties, (Browning .50cal for all except the F4U-1C) as opposed to aircraft with mixed armaments that can have a modest (.50cal and Hispano) to radical (German 13mm + 30mm) variance in the ballistics and muzzle velocity. Not only that, but some of these aircraft have an even distribution of rounds between both gun banks.
For example, if you look at the ammo distribution on the P-51B one pair of guns has 250rds/gun, the other has 380. The FM-2 has 430rds in all four guns. Both carry the Browning .50cal so ballistics don't come into the equation, but the FM-2 has a MAJOR advantage in firing time. Additionally, because the FM-2 distributes ammunition between all four guns equally she has a major advantage in lethality: The P-51B loses half its firepower after firing roughly 2/3 her total firing time. The FM-2's lethality remains consistent right up until the guns go dry.
To accurately rate all weapons on an aircraft we'd be looking at an even more complex equation. Maybe something like:
Gun Package = ( (Primary Lethality + Primary Ballistics + Primary Firing Time) / 3) + (Secondary Lethality + Primary Ballistics + Secondary Firing Time / 3 ) ) / 2
Saxman, that's an excellent criticism. It's hard to compare the fighters that have the same weapon in both banks vs the ones that have drastically different weapons. For instance, if we say that secondary weapon ballistics are important, e.g. we assign it a value of 1, then aircraft like the 109F-4 and SpitfireV gain too much for something that's really insignificant. If we assign it something less, like .5, then an aircraft like the P-47 or Typhoon is cheated.
-
<--------wouldn't have a clue...........
<S>999000
-
Hello Gavagai,
My head hurts just thinking about it. :O Kudos to you for diving into the game this deep. I never could myself.
<Salute>
-
Saxman, that's an excellent criticism. It's hard to compare the fighters that have the same weapon in both banks vs the ones that have drastically different weapons. For instance, if we say that secondary weapon ballistics are important, e.g. we assign it a value of 1, then aircraft like the 109F-4 and SpitfireV gain too much for something that's really insignificant. If we assign it something less, like .5, then an aircraft like the P-47 or Typhoon is cheated.
That's why gun package should be an average of factors combined: Lethality + Fire Duration + Ballistics, rather than rating each one individually. Usefulness of the weapons package is determined by ALL these characteristics together.
That way planes like the K4 that have one big but VERY hard to utilize gun aren't overestimated due to sheer hitting-power in comparison to something like the F4U-4, which has a lighter weapons package but the advantage of A) being easier to hit with and B) having consistent ballistics and fire duration across both banks. The case can then be made that despite the lower lethality the F4U-4 still has the advantage in armament.
-
What I've done for now is to split lethality among both weapon banks. That way they can be independently manipulated by a multiplier (if desired).
I found more data on our aircraft compiled by others and added it in. The categories are now as follows:
Speed at sea level
Speed at 10k ft
Speed above 10k ft
Climb at sea level
Climb at 10k ft
Climb at 15k ft
Turn radius
Turn radius w flaps
Primary Lethality
Secondary Lethality
Primary Firing time
Secondary Firing Time
Primary Ballistics
secondary Ballistics
Flight Time (at full throttle)
Ordinance
Roll Rate
Cockpit Visibility
Dive Acceleration
Energy Retention
200-300mph acceleration
-
Keep in mind you should also account for both maneuverability AND roll at different speed rates.
For example: If you were to judge based on turn radius only and using an absolute measurement, the Zero is the best plane in the game. But if you start breaking it down by high, medium and low speeds the picture looks RADICALLY different. The Zero will out-turn the F4U handily at low speeds, but any Zero that tries to match the F4U in a high-speed turning contest above 300mph is in deep trouble.
The same goes for rate of roll. Some aircraft excel at rolling within certain speed bands, (IE, low, medium or high) others are more balanced and have good roll response at all speeds.
If you're going to break speed and climb down by altitude, turning and roll should be broken down by speed bands (say, 150-250 / 251-350 / 351-450 / 451+ ).
Turn RATE should be a factor as well.
-
Anax,
I'm thinking on it. Got quite abit on the old plate right now.
-
Keep in mind you should also account for both maneuverability AND roll at different speed rates.
For example: If you were to judge based on turn radius only and using an absolute measurement, the Zero is the best plane in the game. But if you start breaking it down by high, medium and low speeds the picture looks RADICALLY different. The Zero will out-turn the F4U handily at low speeds, but any Zero that tries to match the F4U in a high-speed turning contest above 300mph is in deep trouble.
The same goes for rate of roll. Some aircraft excel at rolling within certain speed bands, (IE, low, medium or high) others are more balanced and have good roll response at all speeds.
If you're going to break speed and climb down by altitude, turning and roll should be broken down by speed bands (say, 150-250 / 251-350 / 351-450 / 451+ ).
Turn RATE should be a factor as well.
I have access to turn rate data, but not to data for roll rate or turn at different speeds. So far the A6M2/5 ends up being one of the worst fighters, so not having that data isn't going to change much.
The excel sheet I'm using computes data like this:
Take a category, like top speed on the deck. Subtract the average top speed from the aircraft's top speed, and divide by the standard deviation. The results are usually in the range of -1.9 to 1.9. Anything below or above that is extreme. That score, called the Z-score, can then be modified by a multiplier to accentuate one category or another, and to de-emphasize others. Then you simply take the average for all categories to get a total score.
With multipliers set like this
1.5 Speed at sea level
1.75 Speed at 10k ft
.75 Speed above 10k ft
1.0 Climb at sea level
1.0 Climb at 10k ft
0.25 Climb at 15k ft
1.25 Turn radius
1.5 Turn radius w flaps
1.5 Primary Lethality
1.5 Secondary Lethality
0.5 Primary Firing time
0.5 Secondary Firing Time
1.0 Primary Ballistics
1.0 secondary Ballistics
.75 Flight Time (at full throttle)
0.5 Ordinance
1.25 Roll Rate
0.5 Cockpit Visibility
.75 Dive Acceleration
.75 Energy Retention
1.5 200-300mph acceleration
these are the results (no P-39 or F4U-1A):
Tempest 0.64
F4U-4 0.62
Spit XIV 0.54
Spit XVI 0.50
F4U-1C 0.44
P47N 0.43
LA7 0.37
F4U-1D 0.34
Spit VIII 0.33
P51D 0.32
P51B 0.29
F4U-1 0.28
190D-9 0.26
109 K-4 0.25
P47D-40 0.24
P47D-25 0.18
KI84 0.17
P38L 0.16
P47D-11 0.15
TA152 0.15
Mossie 0.14
P38J 0.13
LA5 0.12
Typhoon 0.12
109 G-14 0.10
Spit IX 0.10
F6F 0.08
109 G-2 0.06
190A-5 0.06
N1K2 0.06
110 G 0.04
190A-8 0.03
YAK 9U 0.01
109 F-4 -0.01
109 G-6 -0.08
C205 -0.11
190F-8 -0.13
P38G -0.13
Spit V -0.18
YAK 9T -0.25
KI61 -0.28
Seafire IIC -0.29
C202 -0.33
FM2 -0.51
Hurri IIC -0.56
P40E -0.59
Spit I -0.63
110 C -0.70
A6M5 -0.74
Hurri IID -0.79
109 E-4 -0.85
F4F -0.88
P40B -0.90
A6M2 -0.92
Hurri I -0.97
P.S. For the La's I divided their lethality between the primary and 2ndary weapons.
-
Okay, I thought of one thing. For MA purposes, speed on the deck should weigh *more* than speed at 10K, not less, IMO. Whether running or chasing something down, the chases that don't start on the deck will tend to end up there with a dive.
Also, you think acceleration should be factored in? It could be argued that one category that reflects on t/w ratio, climb, is enough, I suppose, but acceleration might be nice to see.
-
F4U-1A would be relatively easy to calculate:
Take the F4U-1 and use the 1D's figures for rate of climb and acceleration.
-
Okay, I thought of one thing. For MA purposes, speed on the deck should weigh *more* than speed at 10K, not less, IMO. Whether running or chasing something down, the chases that don't start on the deck will tend to end up there with a dive.
Also, you think acceleration should be factored in? It could be argued that one category that reflects on t/w ratio, climb, is enough, I suppose, but acceleration might be nice to see.
Acceleration is there, 200-300mph.
-
Hitler lost the war because he was fouled up waiting on ENY to kick in.
-
Gavagi is just continuing to push an agenda no one either agrees with or really cares about.
Hate to say it...
-
Gavagi is just continuing to push an agenda no one either agrees with or really cares about.
Hate to say it...
Oh, come on now. Is this discussion harming you? :P The concept outlined here is not even my own, but was graciously delivered to me by another bbs member.
-
Oh, come on now. Is this discussion harming you? :P The concept outlined here is not even my own, but was graciously delivered to me by another bbs member.
Just for the sake of argument, could we see what results one gets when the value of speed at SL is set to 1.5, 10K to 1.25, and 15K to 1?
-
Pilot skill: 14
-
Pilot skill: 14
:rofl I tried that half-way and only one or two people liked it. ;)
Just for the sake of argument, could we see what results one gets when the value of speed at SL is set to 1.5, 10K to 1.25, and 15K to 1?
Which other factor would I change to compensate for the .25 total difference?
Here is what I get with the following settings, a more extreme version of what you're asking for (turn rate added):
1.5 Speed at sea level
1.0 Speed at 10k ft
.5 Speed above 10k ft
1.5 Climb at sea level
1.0 Climb at 10k ft
0.5 Climb at 15k ft
1.0 Turn-rate
1.0 Turn radius
1.0 Turn radius w flaps
1.5 Primary Lethality
1.5 Secondary Lethality
0.5 Primary Firing time
0.5 Secondary Firing Time
1.25 Primary Ballistics
1.25 Secondary Ballistics
.75 Flight Time (at full throttle)
.75 Ordinance
1.25 Roll Rate
.75 Cockpit Visibility
.75 Dive Acceleration
.75 Energy Retention
1.5 200-300mph acceleration
F4U-4 0.62
Tempest 0.59
Spit XIV 0.55
Spit XVI 0.53
F4U-1C 0.41
Spit VIII 0.38
LA7 0.34
P47N 0.34
F4U-1D 0.33
P51D 0.28
P38L 0.25
P51B 0.24
190D-9 0.23
P47D-40 0.23
KI84 0.22
P38J 0.21
F4U-1 0.20
109 K-4 0.18
P47D-25 0.16
F6F 0.13
LA5 0.13
N1K2 0.11
Spit IX 0.11
109 G-14 0.09
190A-5 0.09
P47D-11 0.09
TA152 0.09
Typhoon 0.09
109 G-2 0.07
Mossie 0.02
109 F-4 0.01
190A-8 -0.01
110 G -0.02
YAK 9U -0.03
P38G -0.08
109 G-6 -0.09
C205 -0.12
Spit V -0.15
190F-8 -0.16
YAK 9T -0.26
Seafire IIC -0.28
KI61 -0.31
C202 -0.32
FM2 -0.45
Hurri IIC -0.46
P40E -0.57
Spit I -0.58
Hurri IID -0.69
A6M5 -0.70
110 C -0.75
A6M2 -0.82
109 E-4 -0.83
F4F -0.87
Hurri I -0.87
P40B -0.90
The biggest surprise to me is the low rankings of the Hurri IIc and N1K, both slow, nimble aircraft with 4 cannons that enjoy main arena success. They're just not well-rounded enough to do well when so many things are considered, but a lot of their success comes from fundamental mistakes by their opponents. The N1K suffers most from its cannon ballistics.
I've toyed with all sorts of settings but it's very difficult to make the SpitXVI rank lower than the C-hog. ;) :noid Perhaps if I upped ammo duration a bit at the expense of something else.
---------------------------
Edit: If you want the spreadsheet so you can toy with the numbers yourself pm me your email address. :aok
-
I still think you need to differentiate high-speed vs low-speed rate of roll and maneuverability.
-
I still think you need to differentiate high-speed vs low-speed rate of roll and maneuverability.
I agree. It will come in time. For what airspeed? I was thinking ~400ias. Know of anyone who already has the data?
-
I'd say closer to 350mph and above for "high speed." Otherwise we'd need a Low/Medium/High spread.
-
I have access to turn rate data, but not to data for roll rate or turn at different speeds. So far the A6M2/5 ends up being one of the worst fighters, so not having that data isn't going to change much.
The excel sheet I'm using computes data like this:
Take a category, like top speed on the deck. Subtract the average top speed from the aircraft's top speed, and divide by the standard deviation. The results are usually in the range of -1.9 to 1.9. Anything below or above that is extreme. That score, called the Z-score, can then be modified by a multiplier to accentuate one category or another, and to de-emphasize others. Then you simply take the average for all categories to get a total score.
With multipliers set like this
1.5 Speed at sea level
1.75 Speed at 10k ft
.75 Speed above 10k ft
1.0 Climb at sea level
1.0 Climb at 10k ft
0.25 Climb at 15k ft
1.25 Turn radius
1.5 Turn radius w flaps
1.5 Primary Lethality
1.5 Secondary Lethality
0.5 Primary Firing time
0.5 Secondary Firing Time
1.0 Primary Ballistics
1.0 secondary Ballistics
.75 Flight Time (at full throttle)
0.5 Ordinance
1.25 Roll Rate
0.5 Cockpit Visibility
.75 Dive Acceleration
.75 Energy Retention
1.5 200-300mph acceleration
these are the results (no P-39 or F4U-1A):
Tempest 0.64
F4U-4 0.62
Spit XIV 0.54
Spit XVI 0.50
F4U-1C 0.44
P47N 0.43
LA7 0.37
F4U-1D 0.34
Spit VIII 0.33
P51D 0.32
P51B 0.29
F4U-1 0.28
190D-9 0.26
109 K-4 0.25
P47D-40 0.24
P47D-25 0.18
KI84 0.17
P38L 0.16
P47D-11 0.15
TA152 0.15
Mossie 0.14
P38J 0.13
LA5 0.12
Typhoon 0.12
109 G-14 0.10
Spit IX 0.10
F6F 0.08
109 G-2 0.06
190A-5 0.06
N1K2 0.06
110 G 0.04
190A-8 0.03
YAK 9U 0.01
109 F-4 -0.01
109 G-6 -0.08
C205 -0.11
190F-8 -0.13
P38G -0.13
Spit V -0.18
YAK 9T -0.25
KI61 -0.28
Seafire IIC -0.29
C202 -0.33
FM2 -0.51
Hurri IIC -0.56
P40E -0.59
Spit I -0.63
110 C -0.70
A6M5 -0.74
Hurri IID -0.79
109 E-4 -0.85
F4F -0.88
P40B -0.90
A6M2 -0.92
Hurri I -0.97
P.S. For the La's I divided their lethality between the primary and 2ndary weapons.
wrong wrong wrong,
now I am not saying that your numbers are wrong but there is no way the Hurri2c should be that low on the totem pole, the cannons and turning ability make it one of the deadliest planes in game, so maybe if the turning and lethality of the guns, data configured higher into the equation?
the cannons are the best in game, its second only to the zero in flat out turns (I think), if its got lower fuel amount it will out turn the zero, the visibility is excellent, it dives very well, holds what little bit of E it generates well, the only thing its lacking is flat out speed.
it is the only plane that I have been able to stay alive, and fly away from, a huge disadvantage in numbers and ALT with killz.
-
Actually, the data I have says the Hurri holds energy poorly, and accelerates in a dive poorly, too. Its best diving attribute is its roll rate, so maybe once I add in figures for high speed roll-rate like saxman suggests, the Hurri will improve.
To move the HurriIIC up in the ranks I've have to dramatically weight firepower and turning at the expense of most everything else.
-
wrong wrong wrong,
now I am not saying that your numbers are wrong but there is no way the Hurri2c should be that low on the totem pole, the cannons and turning ability make it one of the deadliest planes in game, so maybe if the turning and lethality of the guns, data configured higher into the equation?
the cannons are the best in game, its second only to the zero in flat out turns (I think), if its got lower fuel amount it will out turn the zero, the visibility is excellent, it dives very well, holds what little bit of E it generates well, the only thing its lacking is flat out speed.
it is the only plane that I have been able to stay alive, and fly away from, a huge disadvantage in numbers and ALT with killz.
The Hurricane is basically a one-trick-pony in the LW arenas--which is what this is going by. The only thing it does remarkably well is turn at low speeds, and even its gun package is not enough on its own to justify a massive jump in the listing. The F4U-1C, Typhoon and Tempest all carry the same four Hispano 20mm cannon in airframes that are FAR more capable. Everything else the IIc can do well there's other planes that do it far better.
-
Huh...how did the F4U-4 move up above the Tempest when speed at SL became weighed heavier? Bizarre, unless somehow its bad spot in the power-curve at 10K is hurting it more with this weighting. I wonder the same thing about the SpitVIII moving up with a greater weighting towards SL speed, at 340 or so, it's no demon on the deck.
:rofl I tried that half-way and only one or two people liked it. ;)
Which other factor would I change to compensate for the .25 total difference?
Here is what I get with the following settings, a more extreme version of what you're asking for (turn rate added):
1.5 Speed at sea level
1.0 Speed at 10k ft
.5 Speed above 10k ft
1.5 Climb at sea level
1.0 Climb at 10k ft
0.5 Climb at 15k ft
1.0 Turn-rate
1.0 Turn radius
1.0 Turn radius w flaps
1.5 Primary Lethality
1.5 Secondary Lethality
0.5 Primary Firing time
0.5 Secondary Firing Time
1.25 Primary Ballistics
1.25 Secondary Ballistics
.75 Flight Time (at full throttle)
.75 Ordinance
1.25 Roll Rate
.75 Cockpit Visibility
.75 Dive Acceleration
.75 Energy Retention
1.5 200-300mph acceleration
F4U-4 0.62
Tempest 0.59
Spit XIV 0.55
Spit XVI 0.53
F4U-1C 0.41
Spit VIII 0.38
LA7 0.34
P47N 0.34
F4U-1D 0.33
P51D 0.28
P38L 0.25
P51B 0.24
190D-9 0.23
P47D-40 0.23
KI84 0.22
P38J 0.21
F4U-1 0.20
109 K-4 0.18
P47D-25 0.16
F6F 0.13
LA5 0.13
N1K2 0.11
Spit IX 0.11
109 G-14 0.09
190A-5 0.09
P47D-11 0.09
TA152 0.09
Typhoon 0.09
109 G-2 0.07
Mossie 0.02
109 F-4 0.01
190A-8 -0.01
110 G -0.02
YAK 9U -0.03
P38G -0.08
109 G-6 -0.09
C205 -0.12
Spit V -0.15
190F-8 -0.16
YAK 9T -0.26
Seafire IIC -0.28
KI61 -0.31
C202 -0.32
FM2 -0.45
Hurri IIC -0.46
P40E -0.57
Spit I -0.58
Hurri IID -0.69
A6M5 -0.70
110 C -0.75
A6M2 -0.82
109 E-4 -0.83
F4F -0.87
Hurri I -0.87
P40B -0.90
The biggest surprise to me is the low rankings of the Hurri IIc and N1K, both slow, nimble aircraft with 4 cannons that enjoy main arena success. They're just not well-rounded enough to do well when so many things are considered, but a lot of their success comes from fundamental mistakes by their opponents. The N1K suffers most from its cannon ballistics.
I've toyed with all sorts of settings but it's very difficult to make the SpitXVI rank lower than the C-hog. ;) :noid Perhaps if I upped ammo duration a bit at the expense of something else.
---------------------------
Edit: If you want the spreadsheet so you can toy with the numbers yourself pm me your email address. :aok
-
It was due to the addition of turn-rate and a greater emphasis on ballistics and ordinance.
-
Ah, gotcha.