Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sparks on November 15, 2000, 03:50:00 AM
-
didn't wake up until the first munitions hit the field ??
My idea is this - set an agl alt/radius for each field where if you come in to attack that field below the critical height then the ack won't open up until the first bombs / bullets hit inside the perimeter. My thinking is it would better simulate surprise attacks and promote Hvy fighter use instead of hi alt bombing. The surprise level should be quite low - say 400ft agl and the radius large - say 7 miles. That would mean an attacking force would have to be on the deck and trucking some distance out which gives the defenders opportunity for a high bounce.
If there are any enemy cons inside the radius and above the hard deck then ack will be awake regardless of attacking a/c approach.
It would take a set time for an airfield zone to be clear before the ack fell asleep again.
Well its a bit of the wall but what do y'all think??
Sparks
-
The old Warbirds AAA code gained a feature, towards the end of the time I was playing it, where if you came in fast and low sometimes you could make it over the field and some of the way out the other side before the gunners 'woke up' and opened fire.
I really liked this feature doing low level 'surprise' field attacks deep in enemy territory with the B25 and Mosquito was great fun. I'd really like to see something similar in Aces High.
------------------
Graywolfe <tim@flibble.org>
-
Sparks, I've been arguing for a 10-20 second delay on ack now for as long as AH has been out.
Sincerely doubt we'll ever see it though (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
-
Get's my vote.
-
I like it.
eskimo
-
The base commander will then take the beer away from the ack gunners, low morale will follow which will affect the maintenance crews which will slow the damage rebuild process which will require the rearming crews to assist base repair slowing the rearming process, etc.. domino effect... base chaos.
watch what you wish for (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
-
IMO, ack is too easy to take out the way it is, why give the attacker any more ease? There are lots of folks that can dismantle the ack completely with a lone fighter, then ditch, re-up a goon and capture the field by themselves.
-
Hmmm - not sure how to take that Eagler ....
Anyway - idea is not to delay the ack for all attacks - just those that are started from low level some distance out and on a quiet target. My opinion is if you cruise in at 10-15k then you should expect a reception.
I think it could add a new twist to squad ops and the MA. When a battle is raging round one or two airfields then a small group of people can pick a quiet one maybe further into territory and sneak in low. Plus you couldn't have high cover ahead of you because that would "wake up" the ack prior to your arrival. Net result is if you are good you get to disable a field quickly and if you aren't then the defenders can quickly be with you and some good even fights should start (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) .
I have no idea on the programability of this .
Sparks
-
Just caught your post Rip - I agree there are a few who can ack bust with impunity ( I've sat in an M3 and watched Torque level an a/f by himself in an F4 ) but I don't think there as many as you think.
For me ack is impenetrable - for others a cinch - for many somewhere imbetween ???
I think it would be cool to try it.
Sparks
-
I would like to see a delay. There are so many great photos and exciting accounts of these attacks in the historical record, but they are impossible to duplicate with the current ZSU-23 AAA model which lights up low-level bombers right as they come over the horizon.
There was a delay in real life - that's why low level attacks on airfields were done. Unless the enemy had a raid warning from a spotting station or a friendly aircraft, the attackers knew they could get one "free" pass over the field before the AAA started firing in earnest.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-15-2000).]
-
Originally posted by funked:
I would like to see a delay. There are so many great photos and exciting accounts of these attacks in the historical record, but they are impossible to duplicate with the current ZSU-23 AAA model which lights up low-level bombers right as they come over the horizon.
There was a delay in real life - that's why low level attacks on airfields were done. Unless the enemy had a raid warning from a spotting station or a friendly aircraft, the attackers knew they could get one "free" pass over the field before the AAA started firing in earnest.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-15-2000).]
AKA: OH-SH*T-YOU-GUYS-GET-OUTTA-YOUR-BUNKS-AND-ON-YOUR-GUNS-CAUSE-WERE-UNDER-ATTACK!-factor.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Originally posted by Funked
I would like to see a delay. There are so many great photos and exciting accounts of these attacks in the historical record, but they are impossible to duplicate with the current ZSU-23 AAA model which lights up low-level bombers right as they come over the horizon.
There was a delay in real life - that's why low level attacks on airfields were done. Unless the enemy had a raid warning from a spotting station or a friendly aircraft, the attackers knew they could get one "free" pass over the field before the AAA started firing in earnest.
My point exactly Funked. My idea of the "o sight" zone is to force the attackers to leave a target clear for some period of time for the ack to "go to sleep" and then approach it in a realistic way.
I think it would be helpful to game play in several ways:-
1. It would force defenders to keep an eye on otherwise quiet feilds because it wouldn't necessarily be a panzer that is in the sector without a dar dot.
2. It would mean attacking a/c would be low over the target from the start meaning upping defenders don't face the usual climb to 15k before engaging. E states would be closer and so the fights enjoyable.
3. Defenders would have the opportunity to "bounce" incoming raiders - any top fighter cover would be in the "seen" zone and therefore alert the ack.
I agree with Rip's point to a degree - yes there are people who can already deal with ack easily but for many it isn't so straight forward. By setting ack wake up to when the munitions first hit does two things:-
1. It gaurantees only one clear first pass and makes the attackers priority, after dropping, getting clear.
2. It means timing is everything if a raid is to be effective. It would be no good having your squadies trailing in 10 seconds apart in line astern as the first guy would have woken the base up. you would have to go in together.
In answer to Rip's point - it would not make it significantly easier for the ack pros as only the first attack would be clear - as soon as the first rocket hits then its back to normal.
In terms of V Fields I don't think it would change much - they are easily killed by one heavy fighter anyway (hey even I can do it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ) so a surprise element wouldn't matter much.
Well I can dream anyway ..... <vision of 10 Firebirds Typhoons screaming over unsuspecting Knit feild> .....ahhhhh
-
I'm all for it !
AS a sollution to the lone fighter killing a ll ack .. how about that:
a) more gun emplacemnts
b) gun emplacements come "alife" one after the other (not all gunners reach the guns at the same time and some guns need more time to be made ready, e.g. light MGs first, then heavier etc.. with the closest to the barracks first then the other ones
c) once a field is in ALERT state it willl take 10 mins of no enemy in sight for them to make a surprise possoble again.
This would make it possible for a Low level attack in BUFFs (man give them B26 something to Strafe !) as long as they are coming in as 1 close group and then you better have some alt when you go in or you'll be toast (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
DW6
-
I've always thought this would be a good idea. Give us a reason to use NOE tactics!!
As far as ack being too easy to knock down.. well If the ack was only sleeping for your first low pass chances are unless you brought a few friends the remaining acks won't be such an easy target.
WW2 pilots feared AA, so should we.
SKurj
-
Sounds a great idea to me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Low-level intruder attacks would be very cool indeed. As a squad we've tried this - i.e. striking a quiet base after flying below 100 feet, through hills (not always literally) and valleys. Having the acks unaware for the first pass would be excellent.
-
Maybe a AAA gun should come online every 10 seconds after the first bomb drops.
I'd love to make low level straffer attacks with B-26's and P-47's.
-
Every 10 secs after 1st bomb drops... hmm well what if u only strafe? Ok so if they came online every 10 seconds after the first ack went down, This would make it easy to take out all ack at a field before ack could even shoot back. UNLESS the ack to come online was completely random.
SKurj
-
Hey Sparks,
Gets my vote. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) My record with acks is roughly 1 ack down per plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif)
I think it should (As you suggested) only apply to under radar attacks though & then only to the 1st pass.
One other thing Acks don't seem to have any trajectory as such. Once or twice I've noticed if you approach in a Panzer etc the acks seem to shoot in a dead straight line (No gravity effect on the shells). Although probably valid when trying to destroy the deathstar in an Xwing this seems somehow wrong in 1944. Shouldn't they have to be "Lobbed" like when returning fire?
TTFN
snafu
-
I'd dearly luv to see this.
(delayed ack)
Much more realistic, and the random wake up would also be cool.
As to the lobbed rds from ack towards ground vehicles, I'd also like to see that.
Especially, if aaa could no longer fire THROUGH friendly buildings. Currently any aaa on the field can fire through buildings without hinderance. Yet any building will stop OUR fire. Kinda negates any tactical\strategic assault on any base, from either air or ground.
I don't believe it would be that dificult to program hard targets/sprite collision for ground fire, since it's already half done.
-
Sparks...
I think this is a great idea except for one factor. It is an open arena where everyone does whatever they want. Here's the problem
Imagine you and a bunch of other guys take the time to fly NOE for several miles (7 miles in your example) and are just about to start your attack. Then, some other player (your countryman) inadvertantly crosses the 7 mile bubble around the base.
HOLY toejam... What the hell is going on!!!! The acks just shredded my entire strike force!!!! Who's the DWEEB that flew near base Ax????
Other than that, great ideas all. But it shouldn't have to rely soley on AI. If your strike group flew over a tank in the canyon, he should be able to send a radio message to the base to tell the guns to "wake up"
------------------
"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"
Midnight
13th TAS
-
ack guns will be player controlled on fields too soon as well as ships
it should be a welcomed addition to have a significant delay for ai ack to wake up during a low level attack.
this gives the players additional incentive to man the guns themselves
-
Likely cit i'd imagine that if noone mans the guns at a base they will still be ai controlled.
Either that or there will be some guns mannable while others willbe the AI.
We need AI guns at bases, and the larger the map the more important this will be. Aces already makes the sneak steal too easy as is.
AKskurj