Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CptTrips on January 08, 2009, 11:35:07 AM
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I'm considering embarking on learning to speak Japanese.
Has anyone one used the Rosetta Stone software for this or any other language.
Are there real advantages to this approach vs. more traditional techniques, or is it all just a bunch of hype?
Thanks in advance,
Wab
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I have Rosetta Stone for German (1, 2, and 3.) While I have an advantage of having lived in Germany for five years, I still believe this is some incredible software. There are times when it simply becomes frustrating, though. For instance, when you have to write what you hear the speaker say. While it may sound like an, "h" it could be a, "j." The writing is by far the most frustrating part of the program.
I feel you have an advantage with Rosetta Stone. It's interactive and amusing, plus you have people from the actual country of your language choice that are being used to make the recordings. So you hear the language in its actual accent and pronunciation. The only down-side to the program: Not enough writing, no tests, no due dates. While that may be an advantage to some, it can help others slack a little and slow down on their progress of learning their language of choice.
I'd say go with it! I certainly love it.
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Yes it works The tagalog language with over 100 dialects... impossible even with their software but at least natives can get the intent of what I say and I can keep up with most conversations. The dialect of the province where my wife is from (because of learning with her) I have down to useable but I have never been skilled in language. I get a lot of laughs from Filipinos because even after a few years I tend to use words like an English speaking American would instead of their syntax.
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Well, I don't think you're going to learn the accent from the program. However you will be encouraged to pronounce the words in a more proper matter due to the voice recognition process.
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I've been thinking of using it for Japanese myself, let me know how it is if/when you get it and use it for a while. I've tried several different "teach yourself" language programs and all of them were a waste of money.
Incidentally, I would have gotten it anyway by now if they had a Romanian course (didn't the last time I checked)
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Well, I don't think you're going to learn the accent from the program. However you will be encouraged to pronounce the words in a more proper matter due to the voice recognition process.
When I said dialect I mean the words are completely different in a lot of cases. And by syntax I mean the way sentences are constructed. My wife meets other women all the time that she can communicate with by sticking to the roots of the language but can also talk in such a way they cannot be understood. Tagalog is heavily influenced by Indonesian Chinese Arabic and Spanish with the northern islands having also incorporated English to a great extent. To a Filipino from Leyte talking to a Visayan can be impossible but its a big step from kidnapping one and throwing them into the volcano. :D
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Like watching a Quebecouis and a Parisian try to speak "French"? :rofl
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Sorry about that Chalenge. I read the words but they just didn't click.
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We used it prior deployment for our mission. We had a crash course on poshtu. So we could know what our friends in the cells were saying to each other. Come to find out only the taliban uses poshtu here and when talking to locals in poshtu it caused some awkward moments.
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I'm considering embarking on learning to speak Japanese.
Has anyone one used the Rosetta Stone software for this or any other language.
Are there real advantages to this approach vs. more traditional techniques, or is it all just a bunch of hype?
Thanks in advance,
Wab
Yes, Rosetta Stone is a really good program for learning a foreign language. I'm finishing up the Japanese language program and after that will be starting the Chinese one.
Personally, its techniques made it easier for me to learn another language than the more conventional methods.
ack-ack
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Yes, it's an awesome set of lessons. I've been using it (my kids as well). We've not gotten too far on it, since we've been limiting our lessons to the weekends though.
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What language TMom?
Please don't say Spanish...
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LOL. No, not Spanish.
Inupiaq
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Oh, and sorry for that, and apologies to any Spanish speakers on these forums. But I have to listen to all the inmates (literally something like 1/3) who "only" speak Spanish and refuse to learn English (and we can't make them, because we'd be violating their "cultural identity") that I refuse to learn a single word of it. My ancestors had to learn English when they came here, why the [expletive deleted] can't you.
end rant.
WTF is Inupiaq?? :confused:
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WTF is Inupiaq?? :confused:
My ancestors had to learn English as well. Problem is that our own language is dying off as a result. In the 1930's my Grandma was the bilingual teacher at the school in their town ~ now everything is almost entirely English-only. So my children & I are learning the old language.
Inupiaq =
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd34/momof3terrors/inupiaqteens.jpg)
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Inuit?
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I have been thinking to learn Sioux and German with the program.
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Tx Mom--
Gotta admit, I giggled...Just like you apparently did, if I were of eskimo extraction, *I'd* get as far south as I could, as soon as I could!!
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Yes, Rosetta Stone is a really good program for learning a foreign language. I'm finishing up the Japanese language program and after that will be starting the Chinese one.
Personally, its techniques made it easier for me to learn another language than the more conventional methods.
ack-ack
Do you get afew languages with your purchase or just one? Thought the program was 300 dollars a pop?
Wanted to learn Mandurin and Duestch.
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Its insanely expensive, and one language at a time. The "best deal" package (all 3 programs in one) costs $549.00.
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Its insanely expensive, and one language at a time. The "best deal" package (all 3 programs in one) costs $549.00.
Its expensive, but if it works well might be worth the price. Thats the equivelent of about 3 semesters of a college level language course. How much would that cost plus books? And you would have to attend class instead of when it was convienient for you. It may not be appropriate for someone with just a casual interest though.
On ebay store you can find the 3 level deals plus audio cd from authorized resellers for about $450.
Wab
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Oh, and sorry for that, and apologies to any Spanish speakers on these forums. But I have to listen to all the inmates (literally something like 1/3) who "only" speak Spanish and refuse to learn English (and we can't make them, because we'd be violating their "cultural identity") that I refuse to learn a single word of it. My ancestors had to learn English when they came here, why the [expletive deleted] can't you.
end rant.
WTF is Inupiaq?? :confused:
Hehehe...that means I can make fun of you in Spanish now :t
ack-ack
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Why not, I ignore you 99% of the time in English anyway. :aok
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Do you get afew languages with your purchase or just one? Thought the program was 300 dollars a pop?
Wanted to learn Mandurin and Duestch.
Got it through my company but had to pay $500 for the bundle price, so it was only a $100 discount.
ack-ack
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Why not, I ignore you 99% of the time in English anyway. :aok
LOL!
ack-ack
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Some people can sit through software learning programs and others can't. I'd recommend this (http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Busy-People-I-Text/dp/4770018827) series of books (levels I, II and III) as an alternative. They will put you further along than Rosetta Stone at a fraction of the cost. There are many podcasts out there for Japanese learners to improve listening and speaking skills also . . . for free.
Good luck with whatever program you choose. After a while, you might be able to tune the Japanese vox channel. ;) Don't expect to understand too much though. All languages are filled with idioms and slang based on local movies, TV, music, etc.
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I didnt like it.
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...Wanted to learn Mandurin and Duestch.
Gee... Get it right!
Deutsch. :D
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We used it prior deployment for our mission. We had a crash course on poshtu. So we could know what our friends in the cells were saying to each other. Come to find out only the taliban uses poshtu here and when talking to locals in poshtu it caused some awkward moments.
I'm glad to know the Pentagon is so knowledgeable about the differences between Afghanis.
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I'm glad to know the Pentagon is so knowledgeable about the differences between Afghanis.
Thats what we said. In less kind and pc words of course.
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I didnt like it.
Meatwad,
Can you give me some idea about what you didn't like or what you found was not effective.
Wab
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Thats what we said. In less kind and pc words of course.
Something along the lines of "The DoD has their craniums firmly lodged in their anal orafices yet again"?
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Something along the lines of "The DoD has their craniums firmly lodged in their anal orafices yet again"?
[/quote
I can neither confirm or deny that. :D
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I got the Rosetta stone Lvl 1 and so far have really been enjoying it.
However, anyone interested learning another language should also check out:
http://www.livemocha.com/
The lessons are a good reinforcement and as I build up some vocabulary, I hope to find some live audio chat partners to practice with.
Regards,
Wab
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I've got an old version of level 1 and 2 Russian, not impressed so far. The whole "Immersion" thing is just irritating- they try to teach you stuff without telling you what they're trying to teach you, so I can't figure out what the heck I'm supposed to be learning in each lesson. As a result, I have zero retention. I've done the first 3 lessons five times through, and each time I do I'm starting back at square one. Almost two weeks and I haven't learned squat.
Not impressed.
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I've got an old version of level 1 and 2 Russian, not impressed so far. The whole "Immersion" thing is just irritating- they try to teach you stuff without telling you what they're trying to teach you, so I can't figure out what the heck I'm supposed to be learning in each lesson. As a result, I have zero retention. I've done the first 3 lessons five times through, and each time I do I'm starting back at square one. Almost two weeks and I haven't learned squat.
Not impressed.
Really? I’ve found it to be quite effective. Maybe the newer version is better.
The approach is different. It takes some getting used to. I have also found the voice recognition to be better than I expected at catching slight mispronounciations.
I also picked up the “Japanese for Busy People” book that Rolex suggested and it looks very interesting. But after a couple of hours with it I feel I’ll learn with Rosetta faster. I need to hear it and interact dynamically. I’ve already learned more words and phrases than I had expected it. I think it has a lot to do with the picture association and interactive process. I also like putting the vocab/pronounciation/phrase lessons from the audio companion cd on my mp3 player and practicing while on my evening walk.
But different people learn in different modes. I hope you find one that works best for you.
Regards,
Wab
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Like watching a Quebecouis and a Parisian try to speak "French"? :rofl
Or, dare I say it, anyone who speaks English trying to converse with an American :lol :)
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Or, dare I say it, anyone who speaks English trying to converse with an American :lol :)
Or a londoner speaking with a Scot :rofl
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Meatwad,
Can you give me some idea about what you didn't like or what you found was not effective.
Wab
To me all it taught was just objects, nothing along the lines of how/what to refer to objects/people/etc.
For example, it showes a picture of a ball, book, and automobile then tells you what they are. Nothing like "Can you please tell me what the book you are reading is about?"
I actually found some video clips from the 80's that taught me more then what Rosetta stone did
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Or a londoner speaking with a Scot :rofl
Oh come now, Londoners aren't that bad at English ;)
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To me all it taught was just objects, nothing along the lines of how/what to refer to objects/people/etc.
For example, it showes a picture of a ball, book, and automobile then tells you what they are. Nothing like "Can you please tell me what the book you are reading is about?"
I actually found some video clips from the 80's that taught me more then what Rosetta stone did
Huh... Did you have an older version? I have ver. 3.xx. Even in the first lesson of the first unit they are forming at least simple sentences.
Yeah you have to go through a bunch of object identification drills first, but that is so you will have the components to form sentence.
Example (from memory so my Romanji spelling might be off):
So first they do bunch of drills to teach you man, boy, girl, woman..
i.e. man = Otoko no histo
Then they teach you plural by showing pictures of groups men, women, etc...
i.e. men = Otoko no histotachi (ahh so adding tachi to the end of a noun denotes plural. Got it.)
Then they teach you water...
i.e. water = Mizu
Then they show you pictures of people drinking various beverages....
i.e. drinking = Nonde
Then they show you pictures of people running....
i.e. running = (language filter) H a meatball t e
Then they start putting it all together in simple sentences along with contextual pictures:
i.e. "Otoko no histo wa, mizu o nonde imas." or "Otoko no histotachi wa, mizu o nonde imas." or "Otoko no histo wa, (language filter) h a meatball t e imasu."
I can infer that "imasu" is maybe like "is" or "are".
So now I can infere the simple gramtical structure from usage. It looks like they talk like Yoda.
I'm seeing "Subject wa, [object] verb is/are." At least for this simple sentence pattern.
Why don't they just passively feed you all the information on a platter? I believe it is because the act of forcing you to think and decipher the meaning is from partial information causes you to form a stronger mental association than if you were just being passively fed or just reading lists of grammer rules out of a book.
Think about how a young child learns to speak its native language. Its shown objects and told the names. For a long time it has no grammer to string them together but just builds a vocabulary. Later it learns to string together simple sentences out the vocabulary components it has collected. In time the vocabulary and grammatical complexity increases. By the time they go to school they already have a fairly strong grasp of the language through inference and intuition long before they start to learn any formal rules. I think that is a good approach to copy.
But like I said, use what ever works for you.
Regards,
Wab
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Gotcha!
I stopped a while back, been working on finishing my degree at college for this spring and havent had much time in between (except today since the snow has everything shut down)
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Best way to learn a language.......Watch their soap operas......
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I learned German by listening to Rammstein.
Consequently, I yell a lot.
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Once you start using a program like that, there are some other VERY good ways to pick up sentance structure, slang, coloquialisms, and area/regional accents:
1) Go there! Let friendlies you know understand that you are working very hard to learn the language--they will help you!
2) Start READING that language. The internet will give you more places to practice than you will ever have time for.
3) Watch their films, tv, and listen to their radio. It was, in the "old" days, that most every country broadcast to North America in English, as well as their home language on shortwave. Some still do. If you don't own a shortwave radio ($50 bucks and another $15 to build a decent wire antenna) you can still listen on the internet. A Google search will find any language you want.
As a kid..I mowed my aunt's yard and she gave me an old Zenith Shortwave radio. I was in kid heaven! Even with the crappy antenna inside it could hear worldwide. I added a 100' longwire and it helped even more. Radio Netherlands (Radio Nederland Wereldoemroep) did a segment twice a year for a few weeks called "Dutch by Radio", and would even send you a small plastic record for free--by request. P.O. Box 222, Hilversum, Holland, if you asked for it.
Most all of those above can be "freebies" if you look around.
Good Luck!
ROX
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I learned German by listening to Rammstein.
Consequently, I yell a lot.
:lol
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Good for you, AKWabbit! Ganbatte!
You have learned something else, too. Having "te" or "de" at the end is the gerund form of the word. It's like "ing" in English, so nonde is drinking and nomimasu is the dictionary for of the verb (to drink). The thing about the book I recommended is to memorize the hiragana and katakana tables because that helps you in pronunciation. You pronounce each sound exactly the same as the kana. Romaji only handicaps you and is rarely used anyway, except for English or other languages or sometimes for signs or company names, just for impact.
Good luck and if you ever see my online, send me a message and I'll check your pronunciation. I've found every single audio learning tool is rarely like real, conversational pronunciation and timing. I'm not a translator and don't consider myself any kind of linguist, but my spoken Japanese fools people on the phone all the time. :O
Small thing: it's hito, not histo. May just be recurring typo though... ;)
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I got the program a while back for portuguese, spanish, italian, german and tagalog. Forgot about it, I should learn portuguese as my girlfriend is Brazilian.
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Good for you, AKWabbit! Ganbatte!
You have learned something else, too. Having "te" or "de" at the end is the gerund form of the word. It's like "ing" in English, so nonde is drinking and nomimasu is the dictionary for of the verb (to drink). The thing about the book I recommended is to memorize the hiragana and katakana tables because that helps you in pronunciation. You pronounce each sound exactly the same as the kana. Romaji only handicaps you and is rarely used anyway, except for English or other languages or sometimes for signs or company names, just for impact.
Good luck and if you ever see my online, send me a message and I'll check your pronunciation. I've found every single audio learning tool is rarely like real, conversational pronunciation and timing. I'm not a translator and don't consider myself any kind of linguist, but my spoken Japanese fools people on the phone all the time. :O
Small thing: it's hito, not histo. May just be recurring typo though... ;)
Actually, the dictionary form of drink is "nomu", "nomimasu" is the polite, level II form.
Is there a Japanese vox channel? What is it? Oshiete kudasai . .