Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: gatt on October 02, 2001, 05:35:00 AM
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... retain 100% of his consciousness. I dont mean not able to maneuver at all but the stick response should be lowered, lets say 50%. In arena we usually watch fighters turning with incredibles turn radius and rates thank to the fact that their pilot cant see but can maneuver. Even a blind Spitfire or Niki pilot can do an 8g vertical loop or an horizontal 360° turn and get your six again. Same thing for a 190 pilot, he can do a 45° turn, snapshoot and extend ... all this while in black out.
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Im not RL pilot so I just wonder here.
It would be nice if lose of the controlls depends time of black/redouts.
"Pilot" could controll a/c only very short time during total black/redout without harm.
Pilot pull/push litlebit too long very high G move and lose controll of the a/c about 75%.
pilot continue very high G pull/push move longer, total fadeout should takeover and last some seconds without any control of a/c.
If "pilot" try to make right after high G move (evasive move), fadeout takeover immedialy.
"Pilot" view and controll recovering should gain sametime with "Pilot" view recovering.
Repeating high G move in short time make recovering longer and longer.
Siinä mun pari penniä.
BR
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Q, only took those plane as examples or do you mean those planes ONLY? All planes can do these things, sure, N1K2's and Spits turn around well, 190 Rolls well but doens't hold E best. A bit off topic but just to make clear all plane can do it, doesn't have to be fast or turn well.
What I'd like to see Pilot Fatigue like in WW2OL but alot more efficiant, you don't flat turn 3 G's for 5 minutes, not the weak WW2 6G blackout pilots anyway.
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Gatt, you would have to be in a blackout for a very long time, and actually lose conciousness before you lose control.
When I flew the AT6 Texan, during one manuver my vision went completely black for several seconds, and in several others I got moderate tunnel vision, and I never lost "feel" or control of the aircraft.
Just my real life experience.
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Wilbus,
I took those kites as examples only. Each fiters can do something different while maneuvering under black-out (and red-out as well). Some can outturn you, some snapshoot some simply outdive you.
I know that pilote fatigue would be the best to implement but I feel it is more difficult than simply reducing stick response. If you continue to black out your stick response will eventually be zero.
Vermillion,
I agree, but HTC could reduce progressively the stick response after some seconds of black-out, red-out.
[EDITED for bad english :)]
[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: gatt ]
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If you hold your stick for too long, you get G-LOC. Can't see at all unless you fly level for a few seconds to regain vision.
No point in reducing control response, that would only happen if you pass out (and that's a lot of sustained high Gs)
-SW
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blackouts need an onset delay so that they dont occur instantly with brief periods of high G.
when pulling 6 g in pitts i get very little loss of color or tunnel vision the first 15 or 20 min i do it.
after 30-40 mins of pulling g like that though i start to get a bit of tunnel vision and color fades when high G of 5 to 6.
and its time to go back to the airport :)
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autopilot should be disabled when blacked out
when someone pulls 8 g for too long and blacks out completely all they need to do is hit x and recover.
perhaps disable autopilot when blacked out completely since the unconcious virtual pilot would not be able to switc on auto any way?
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"autopilot should be disabled when blacked out"
Absolutely! It should also disabled when the "wounded pilot" effect is occuring.
Westy
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i think some people confuse black-out with unconcious
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Roger Gatt, just making sure :)
It would be good if there wouuld be zero stick response IF you keep pulling 4 or 5 G's for 5minutes, you do get tired in the arms, and in you mind due to "loss" of blood.
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Originally posted by john9001:
i think some people confuse black-out with unconcious
I dont know whats your real flying experience but I *do* know that you cannot outmaneuver an opponent while black-ing out or worse red-ing out. When I say consciousness I mean the ability to maneuver knowing what you are doing.
Yes, turning on the autopilot (even the climbing one) during black-out is another thing pretty weird ;)
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Hey Fester, Thanks! I didn't even think about hitting "X" and leveling out when I'm in blackout! Cool!
...and Swagger adds another technique to his ACM skills!
:)
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LOL swager! ;)
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Since we are touching on G outs and their timing, can I add something?
G outs / wounded pilot syndrome on the buffs. I can't tell you how maddennig it is to black out as the pilot, when it was the tail gunner (75 feet behind me) who got popped.
We have a nice indicator that shows which guns are damaged and such. Can we effectively close the gun positions that have been killed?
I mean, these planes had 2 pilots, etc etc. For 1 shot to wipe out all the pilots is kinda silly.
And have the black outs/ wounded pilot stuff continue in the chute. I don't want even the wounded guys reporting what's upping from our base :D
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Originally posted by Swager:
Hey Fester, Thanks! I didn't even think about hitting "X" and leveling out when I'm in blackout! Cool!
...and Swagger adds another technique to his ACM skills!
:)
Better wait till the wind noise dies down first Swagger , lol , or your wings will come off most likly :)
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I don't know Verm, I took a AT6 flight alo and I don't think they would let you pull 6Gs, or enough to seriously black out.
AH is too easy this way. I think you should have very little control input while blacked out, and being able to turn on the autopilot to avoid augering is just BS.
Originally posted by Vermillion:
When I flew the AT6 Texan, during one manuver my vision went completely black for several seconds, and in several others I got moderate tunnel vision, and I never lost "feel" or control of the aircraft.
Just my real life experience.
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Based on my personal flying experience (pitts s2, steen skybolt, BD-5 and F-4 Phantom), the blackout in AH comes on too quickly (almost instantaneous, actually).
It is quite possible to pull upwards of 8G's and not blackout, as long as the G's are not held too long. Also, the amount of time in which you load the G's onto the airframe is another factor. Snap it hard into 8 G's, yes, black out, but bring on 8 G's gradually and blackout should not occur for a few seconds.
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What AKWarp and Fester Said!
This was one of my biggest complaints since AH came out: the G blackout modeling is really bad. I too used to fly Pitts S2 aerobatics and had no problem at all sustaining 5-6 gs with no blackout tendency at all. Even rapid G onset during a square loop was no prob. Oh, maybe a little gray after 20 min of "head-banging", but never a blackout vision condition. Now, I'm only 5'9", and lift weights and run, etc., so I tended to be a little better off than the big guys, but I don't recall anyone I flew with having any G-LOC problems.
HiTec and the gang don't seem to realize that young pilots who are "G-tolerant", i.e., they do it everyday - like in WWII, can REALLY pull the Gs without problems. This 4.5 G blackout is why I don't fly AH much at all, in fact, I was getting ready to cancel my account when the price dropped, so now I just screw around on occasion.
The blackout should be moved up to the 6g level as a minimum.
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From a guy who wishes he could just sit in the cockpit of an AT-6 or a Pitts...
:rolleyes:
The blackout model in AH is so far superior to what AW had... I have been delighted with it...
However, being a realism freak... I would REALLY like to see it modeled as close as it can to reality... A lot of the attraction and addiction of WW2 Combat Sims to me, is that I hope to get at least a bit of the feeling of what it was like to fly these beautiful birds...
This is without a doubt the closest I will ever get to flying in this fashion... I want the experience to be as realistic as it can possibly be...
BOOT